More relief? Maybe, but still early

Of course Dombrowski could be icing somebody.

Michael Norton - Some Clubhouse

http://mlblog.someclubhouse.com

First, who is 'SomeBallyard' never seen you here before.

Secondly, what is up with that link? Am I missing something on that page?

Dotel does have K-ability, but he is 34. Maybe a one year deal with him. I would trade some pond **** for him, nothing more than a AA player. He doesn't pitch in that many games....I don't know, can anyone tell me the reason for this, injuries? Has he been drinking the Detroit water? I don't know.

And Hawkins looks like a bumb to me. Gives up way too many hits for being in the bullpen.

I say the heck with these two guys and look at the farm system.

Well I'd take Dotel (under the right circustances) but never Hawkins.
Another question of mine---I don't think we should get overly excitied about Jacque Jones. Here is a LHB (which is exactly what the Cubs are looking for) traded for a utility infielder (which the Cubs didn't need). On top of coming off a poor year, this does not say a whole lot about how much theubs valued him. My guess is that he is a decent outfielder and that is the reason they preferred him over Timo.

BTW--the Cubs traded Infante to the Braves today.

A couple of interesting links:

This one about Erik Bedard (that'd be nice)!

http://www.nypost.com/seven/12042007/sports/eyeing_as__os_100643.htm

Also one where Andrew Miller being offerred up for Dan Haren.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ti-winteranalysis120307&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

The rumors are flying fast and furious. This one from none other than FOX Sports' Ken Rosenthal:

The Marlins, stalled in their attempts to trade third baseman Miguel Cabrera, could be laying the groundwork for an even bigger deal.

The Marlins and Tigers are engaged in preliminary talks about a blockbuster that would send Cabrera and left-hander Dontrelle Willis to Detroit for a package of young players, according to major-league sources.

Outfielder Cameron Maybin and left-hander Andrew Miller likely are among the Marlins' targets. The Tigers already feature two veteran left-handed starters, Kenny Rogers and Nate Robertson, possibly making Miller available in a deal for Willis.

Cabrera would play third base for the Tigers. It is uncertain what would happen to the Tigers' incumbent third baseman, Brandon Inge, if a deal were completed; he possibly could be sent to another team.

Rosenthal smokes more crack than any other baseball writer I have seen.
Didn't he just see where DD just said that Maybin is untouchable and Miller is pretty much untouchable.

I hate when sports writers start talking about teams they have absolutely no idea about.

This guy really needs to put down the pipe.

As far as J. Jones. I think he will do alright. Sounds like he needs to start over with a manager that knows how to handle this past issues.

As far as the Cubs as concerned, I sometimes wonder if they know what they are doing. It always seems like they are here and then they are there and then they are here again. Strange stuff coming outta the windy city.

I guess Dotel wouldn't be too bad for 1/2 season till Zoom comes back, which I have no doubt he will do.

I'm not sure if Rosenthal smokes crack but the Marlins would have to join him in order to trade Willis and Cabrera for Miller and Maybin. Don't get me wrong, I think Miller and Maybin have great potential but Cabrera has out of this world potential (especially if he can keep the weight under control) and Willis, while no sure bet, has a huge upside and I'd think less risk than Miller. I'd go for that trade in heart beat if given the opportunity-- and would throw in Inge if necessary. I'm not crazy am I?

I doubt it would happen but I think it would strengthen both our offense and pitching (defense would be a downgrade without Inge) and the Tigers would still keep young talent. (just at the major league level) I know I'm dreaming... just taking a break and thought I'd chime in.

I'm afraid I would have to agree. It would be disappointing to lose out on the potential of Miller and Maybin but Willis and Cabrera would put this club in the AL Championship for sure.

And yes I would throw in an Inge or a Thames in that deal.

Even a modified trade just for Cabrera would be good-. Maybin and Inge?

Not sure I would trade Miller for Willis even up. Miller has potential and is coachable. Not so sure Willis has as much of either. He can certainly win you 15-17 this year though.

First. We all know what Cabrera can do. But, do we really want to sell off more home grown talent in Maybin (the 5th best prospect right now in all the minors).

I think Maybin is going to be a special player. Gotta keep him! Can't keep trading off the farm.

Now Miller on the other hand, I would have no problem getting rid of. I think he has talent, but I have a feeling he is a bit over-rated.

I would really hate to see Inge go. Even though Cabrera has a bat, we would lose Inge's glove and clubhouse bravado.

Plus, Cabrera's gut is beginning to get outta control like Sabathia's is already.

In closing, I don't like all this talk about trading Maybin. Miller ok, but NOT Maybin!

I have a feeling all this is just a smoke screen by the other team to generate interest in their players.

I also see we signed Bautista to the fold....eh.....uhhh ok.....nice high ERA in the majors, nice ERA in the minors though, has some potential....sorta...ugh!

They were just talking this trade on ESPN as well. It looks as though this is all but done??? I always thought that Maybin was the untouchable??? It looks as thought it would be a 8 player deal 6 going to Florida (Maybin, Miller, and Rabelo, plus three minor leaguers) and 2 coming this way?? I hope Dave knows what he is doing?? I have ESPN on and they make it seem like it is a done deal. OH BOY

DD has struck like a lightening bolt. Out of nowhere he acquires one of the best hitters in the game who is only 24 years old.
I am going to miss being excited about Maybin and I think Miller will end up being a superior pitcher to Willis but this is all about bringing a World Series to Detroit next year.

It solves the backup catcher situation too as they must think Wilson is ready to go.

The other 3 guys I was never terribly excited about. De La Cruz looks like he might have soemthing going they got off pretty lightly with Badenhop and Trahern.

I think this will mean the end of Inge and Marcus Thames here. Another strong RHB will diminish the need for that kind of hitter off the bench and Raburn will do fine out in left platooning with Jones until he takes the job on his own merits.

The rotation now looks like it will be Verlander, Willis, Bonderman, Rogers, Robertson.

Not too shabby. I saw the Free Press talking about this making Durbin expendable, I don't see that at all. We need another RHP capable of stepping into the rotation though it is apparent Bazardo can fulfill that role.

Sorry to see Andrew go but this is a good deal for the Tigers.

I wonder if we will see an Inge/Thames package next?

This is awesome!

matt

This could be a fantastic deal for the Tigers. I am
going to be bummed if they dump Inge, but what are they going to do with him other wise. Do we see October Baseball again in '08?

Woohoo!!!! This is a great deal for the Tigers-- you always trade potential for solid players-- especially when the solid players are still young. I've been disappointed in many past trades but this isn't one of them. A few quick thoughts:

1) If Wilson isn't the solution at catcher, I do believe Mr. Inge can fill in. He's such a great athlete-- why don't they treat him like Tony Phillips? He's still rather affordable and can fill so many holes, they don't have to trade him. That being said, if they could package him with Thames and possibly Durbin for a relief stud, I say have at it DD.

2) Cabrera is going to be so much fun to watch-- the guy is just a hitting machine. Earlier today, I saw that he was also slimming down. I think that will be the key to long term success and I wouldn't doubt that DD signs him to a long-term extension with some weight clauses in it.

3) Willis, while not a "great" pitcher has great talent/potential and I think he's a much safer bet than Miller. They're similar in age and while Miller may have a better upside, you can't be upset with Willis. Furthermore, he's one of the players I love to watch-- he's always smiling and seems to play like a kid out on the mound-- I LOVE that!

4) While I'm sure the other players have potential, I don't think any of them-- except for possibly De La Cruz-- will be pitching in the big leagues next year (or possibly for two years). You can't hold onto those types of players when this type of trade is offered. Yes-- I'm really going to miss Maybin and I don't doubt he'll steal a few bases against us in some inter-league games a few years from now but somehow, I think Cabrera's bat will help deal with those concerns.

That's enough ramblong for now-- rejoice in Tiger Land cuz this is a great day... How many days until the opener?

I don't see why you would get rid of Inge. He can play basically all positions except Pitcher and First, and if there is an injury, he would be there.

Brandon is not a utility player. It would be far too difficult for him to accept that kind role though he certainly can play any position. In fact he once did pitch and if he can catch he can play first.
Anyway, they are not likely to move him to left field or shift Carbrera there. I think we will see him dealt away. Great guy and a treat to watch on D but a championship team needs to get offensive production from their corner infielders. This infield is offensively superior to any in the game.

The lineup is another story. We'll have fun with that this year but my thoughta are:

Granderson

Polanco

Orodnez

Carbrera

Sheffield

Guillen

Renteria

Jones

Rodriguez

JL might be inclined to bat Carbrera 5th and leave Sheff and Ordonez alone. I think my lineup is better though. Pudge has to defer to Jones since that would put back-to-back LHB together.

You could weigh the options of flipping Sheff and Guillen but Sheff has the kind of personality that needs some stroking so I think Carlos will have to defer as well.

All that being said they could trade Jones but then they would not have the LHB they need to balance the predominant RH lineup. I think he will stay and Inge will find a new home.

DD is not done yet, odd as that may seem.

Wow! Now I gotta figure out how I'm going to get the dean or president of my university here in Japan to let me take off a week in October so I can watch our Tigers win the WS...

BTW, I understand Dan's comment about Inge's mindset. But the guy can't really make too many demands given the way he has hit for most of his carreer. He's kind of the Tina Brooks of Baseball--nice guy, interesting but in the end not a top player.

I am trying to be excited about this and in the shortrun I think that this is good for the Tigers. However I also think that the Tigers gave up an aweful lot of future??? And regarding Inge looking at the numbers defensively Inge has a huge upside, unless Cabrera gets a little bit fitter and have a little more range.

Just my opinion.

Inge does have a lot of upside, and I've always enjoyed watching him play. I'd love to see the Tigers hang onto him and let him be the super-super-sub, but $6M is a big annual salary for a utility guy...

Cabrera, though, has batted at least .320 for the last three seasons and hit 33+ home runs three of the last four seasons and at least 112 RBI for the last four seasons and he's 24. He could be here for a long, long time, so we're not giving up *that* much future with him. We'll see how Willis does in the AL. I think his funky delivery will give him an advantage in the early going (against guys who haven't seen him much).

I've been concerned about Maybin and his many minor injuries, I wonder if that might have been a factor.

matt

First, are we becoming the Florida Marlins or what? Is the Tiger in front of the stadium going to have a huge fish hanging out of his mouth next year? Geez...

Onto the chuck of this stuff.

As I stated yesterday, I had no problem with getting rid of Miller. I think he is a few years off from really getting it going in the bigs, so I don't see a problem with that.

I hate to see Rabelo go as well. He came into his own as a back-up catcher. I guess Wilson is ready to go for next season. We definitely need a solid back-up, defensively at least, when I-Rod rests once a week.

If not Wilson, who? We don't have a single good prospect catcher in the minors. Although we did just sign one to a contract for next year in the minors....can't remember his name right now and am too heated to go back and check on it. Now we are going to have to go out and look for another catcher next season after Pudge is done in Detroit. Rabelo I think would have been a decent fill-in after another year behind the dish, but now we are going to have to sign a top caliber catcher after next season. Man...

As far as the other prospects. DD is really selling the farm for guys this off-season. It took the Tigers organization YEARS to build up championship caliber teams in the minors and DD is plucking them outta there fast these days. Don't be surprised if we see a decline in winning for our teams in the minors next season.

As far as Maybin. You all know how I felt about him. He is a 5-tool player that is going to be explosive in the future. I think with LF in the future up in the air, we are going to miss him.

Inge - man, I hate to see him lose his starting jobs. He is one of the boys in town. He is going to take a huge confidence shot on this one. Detroit will never keep him now. He's gone. For who, who knows at this point. He was/is my favorite player on the team, ever since he started playing for the Tigers.

The one article is right, we are starting to look like the Yankees, dare I say!? Not in the evil empire sense, but trading away talent to win and win now! Although, we are picking up two young players and not old half-washed up players as the Yanks normally do.

Out of our hitting lineup, you know we only have one now (Granderson) that came up through the Tigers minor organization? That is crazy.

We do have a few arms that came up through our farm system, but not many.

I am on edge with this trade. I will admit it will be a fun lineup to watch, but hard to take right now seeing all these players go. The face of the Tigers is changing again and I hope for the better.

We will win the division hands-down for sure in 08, forget about the Indians, Twins competing, the Tigers are going to blast everyone, everyone, everyone out of the water in the Central. I guess we are stacking up for a showdown with the BoSox next season in the playoffs.

Crazy stuff. I am still trying to digest....its hard right now for me....especially with Maybin gone.

Does DD lie in the weeds or what? "A stunning development."

I like this trade because of the ages of Cabrera and Willis. They're not much older than the prospects dealt away. I think the unexpected quick progress of Granderson made Maybin somewhat more expendable. The jury was still out on Miller.

Re Brandon Inge, he was a supersub in 2004 and excelled in the role, hitting .287. JL likes to have NL style rosters like this. In addition, Cabrera is a potential replacement for Sheffield in the DH role.

Willis, I think, will drive AL hitters crazy for awhile.

This should be fun, but let's not claim the division title just yet. Things happen, remember?

I bet Leyland could not sleep last night, thinking of the many line-ups possibilities that he has!
Overall, I think it is a good trade...I myself am bummed about loosing De La Cruz...thought he was an up and comer. Trahern had a good fast ball...but that was about it.

So are we going to loose Inge or Thames for a middle pitcher?

You know, we really might see a package of Inge and Thames for a decent relief pitcher.
Inge is gone for sure. He wouldn't be willing to be a back-up, even in Detroit. Like I said, this will be a major blow to his confidence.

My guess at this point, Dotel will be coming to Motown.

Still alittle uneasy about this trade, but warming up as the day goes on.

Also, it is alittle funny to see all the BoSox and Yank fans on foxsports.com whine and make excuses why Detroit won't be better next year because of this trade.

Well guys, it's been a while since my last visit. I feel compelled to speak. I am so old school in this game we call baseball, that I am not enthralled with this trade. I am still in the mode of thinking that a player developed should be a part of the team that developed him. The win at all cost mentality is one of my disappointments in the game of baseball over the last 10-15 years. I have come to accept free agency because your team has the option to match an opposing offer. It's trades that gut an organization, and we suddenly have become a gut wrencher for trades. Sometimes, I believe that trades benefit both sides, but I look at the loss of three pitchers to the Yankees, two to the Braves, and five to the Marlins. The only positive in the three was at least not getting older with the Marlin trade. In the other two, we became an older team, and when we lose Inge and Thames, we will be even older. I fear one, maybe two great years for the team, and then I see potential collapse after that. This trade bothers me because another class act of the Tiger team disappears(ie, Inge). The team with the most talent does not always win. When the A-Rod rumors were flying, I was vehemently oppose to him becoming a Tiger. I don't care how good you are. jerks are not good for the game. This team should be a run producing machine; I just hope the egos don't start tripping over each other. I wish Brandon Inge nothing but Godspeed. He deserves it. Hopefully when we take the field in about 11 weeks, I'll feel better about bleeding Old English D blue

Davidtiger, well put!

David, I'm with you my friend. Well spoken and good points. Frankly, I'm a little disappointed with the gushing euphoria and rush to approve this trade. Too old school and "cootish" I guess. Sorry guys to be the boor. I had patiently anticipated watching Maybin turn into "our" superstar. I liked Rabello too. I had hoped Miller would have pitched better last season but, I mean it was his first full season. We may have let a real good one go. And three other prospects? Wow. Here's the deal, the best team doesn't always win. Numerous examples could be sighted over the years. And there can be unforeseen injuries like last year. Willis and Cabrera are young but become free agents in 2 years right? Who's to say they will want to stay in Detroit? Especially if things don't work out next year. And I'm not sure the Tiger's improved in pitching with this trade. Four pitchers gone....

It does look like the Tigers are loaded for 2008, and they may just crush their way into the playoffs. But the future has been morgaged heavily.... We have become like the Yankees and Red Sox. Now if they want to whine and complain about this trade it would kind of be like the pot calling the kettle black wouldn't it? I'm allowed to cause I'm an authentic old coot Tiger fan which carries those privileges. Sorry to you guys for being the negative one.

Dave and Marty, I am having a hard time understand your thought processes here. We are getting two young, proven players for young, unproven players. I fear the you are falling into the mind set that all fans do, you over value your own prospects. The reason for building a farm program is so when deals like this pop up you can pull the trigger. Get over the nostalgia of building up our own players, fans want to see winners, why do you think they are coming to the ball park in record numbers? Baseball is back in Detroit because they are winning and our management has made a commitment to that. I would rather win with other's players then lose with my own.

Cabrera and Willis by all accounts are character guys. Willis was the face of baseball before Granderson came along, heck, he put last years disappointment on his shoulders. Cabrera, by all accounts, will be a HOFer, you don't want to watch that because he wasn't a Mud Hen?

This deal is great for the Tigers and the city of Detroit. It is a happy day for Tigers fans everywhere.

Jezuits, No doubt in my mind that you speak for the majority and with winning wisdom. I'll keep my nostalgia though. "I would rather win with other's players then lose with my own." That pretty much sums up today's world of sport fans. I will admit that in today's world of big money business sports, there is really little room for this thing called nostalgia.

Well in 3 years maybe we can look back and better evaluate this discussion. But I agree this is a crushing lineup. It will no doubt be fun to watch.

One thing I do like about it is that it affirms managements confidence and appreciation in Curtis Granderson as our CF.

The more I think about this trade (excluding my feelings on Maybin and Inge-which we know is a goner) it is exciting to think about that lineup.
WAZ, you are probably right about JL staying up late last night making line-up cards.

Think about this....6 out of 9 of the starting lineup hit .300 or better last year.

The other three...

Sheff, is a career .296 hitter....I-Rod, is a career .303 hitter and J. Jones is a career .280 hitter.

We could potentially have 8 out of 9 hitting .300 next year. That is insane and I don't know the past stats, but can't imagine that was ever done before. Insane!

Plus, Sheff will hit his 500-HR next season....if I am not mistaken, this has never been done by a Tiger before, has it!?

Anyway....its time to go home....Go Tigers!

MLB Trade Rumors has Freddie Guzman being traded by the Rangers to the Tigers for a PTBNL. An inference was that it could be Chris Shelton.
Guzman is a bad hit, no field center fielder who can run like a demon.

Minor league replacement for Maybin?

huh huh huh cough choke wheeze....GUYS...huff puff....CAN...ach huff puff....I JUST...eee huff...LISTEN...huff puff....TO YOU...choke wheeze huff...TALK.....huff puff...I'M ....huff cough....STILL....huff puff...HYPER....huh choke...VENTILATING....wheeze huff puff...THANKS...choke cough.

JT, is this good or bad. Should we call an ambulance?...Jezuits, sorry for throwing that quote back at you. It's been done to me and I didn't like it either. I understood what you meant. More on that thought later. At the very least in the short run it was a win for the Tigers. To be honest, the only player I'm really upset at losing was Maybin, and I will be for a long while. What's with this DD/Marlin connection? It's as if the Marlins are the Tigers' AAA + A affiliate.

"The one article is right, we are starting to look like the Yankees, dare I say!? Not in the evil empire sense, but trading away talent to win and win now!"

Surely the team we're starting to look like is the Red Wings from the late 90s/early 2000s? Once Mr. Ilitch has it in mind to win, he apparently spares no expense.

On a completely different note, does Edward Campusano get another chance in camp this year to stick with us? Or did we have to give him back to the Brewers last year because of the injury? He could be in the bullpen mix again, if healthy.

Now I'm hearing the Tigers might trade Irod and Willis for relief and move Inge back to catcher.

Is this crazy or what?

OK Mart, I'ver recovered enough to say I love this trade. Think RLP hit it right on the head. Did we really mortgage the future when these are gous are 24 and 25 as we speak?

Also, in a corny kind of way Im proud of both teams. Why do you have to "hose" the other guy? Both teams got huge value for their buck. What's wrong with that? "You can't get something for nothing...You can't get chicken salad for chicken sh_t...you can't have your cake and eat it to...and all of those other sayings.

The Tigers look like a fair trading partner to the rest of MLB. Hoew can that not be a good thing for future deals.

I hope this works out well for the Marlins. I KNOW this is going to be good for the Tigers!

Hey Deck, I think I heard Campusano was gone but can't remember the reason. Don't think he's in the mix anymore.

Steve buddie, yea I think that is crazy.

Hey guys, my brother who lives in MI and listens to all the sports talk radio says it's all over that SHEFF is getting busted by the Mitchell Report and will get some form of suspension. Any truth to those rumors?

Thanks

I remember a while back having a discussion about the over use of the phrase "blockbuster trade". I think this deal was a legitimate use of it. Anyway, glad you recovered JT. After reading pretty much everything out there, it looks like all the writers are praising DD for swinging this one. And it seems like all the Tigers are happy, excluding of course, Brandon and Marcus. We've got the happy reunion of Irod and Willis. And Mags and Carlos are happy with Cabrera.... And with Bazardo a very strong Venezuelan contingency. And then, what a class act Mags is when he most generously and humbly says Cabrera is the best Venezuelan player in baseball. Wow! This after hitting a mere .363 with 139 RBIs and 28 HR season. That's about as warm a welcome as a player could ask for. And then Jones was quoted as saying it was a privilege to play on a team of this caliber at his age. Rogers said it was astounding.

With this group there is the possibility for some very special chemistry. It is an imposing lineup. I would like to see Inge remain a Tiger but can't see it making any sense. Unless that rumor you mentioned Steve, which makes even less sense, given that we gave up Miller and Rabello. But nothing surprises me any more. I'm still extremely bummed about losing Maybin. He has super star written all over him...so how many years before the Marlins trade him too? All right I'm ramblin'.

JT, I thought I remembered that Detroit was off the hook having to play Campusano to keep him because he was injured for the entire season last year. Would assume he's still with the organization. Anybody else know his status or whereabouts? What's the deal with Sheff JT?

Lastly, this trade, no question, elevated the Tigers to the short list of elite "haves" of the mlb world. Mr. Ilitch will spend with the best of them. Good analogy Deck. It also illustrates the widening gulf between the haves and have nots in mlb. I don't like that part of it. I feel sorry for the KCs and Floridas of this league. It would take a miracle for teams like them to make it to the playoffs ever again. I say you line all the players up, each city choses a captain, you do the bat toss thing, and then choose sides. Now that would be a fun fantasy season. Talk about nostalgia...just like we did it every summer day as kids. But I regress.....

Trades are much better than FA I agree. DD has a good thing going with the AAAA Florida Marlins. But it will take a "good while" now for the Tiger organization to reload with enough legit prospects to make any more "blockbuster" trades. Hope this one works out for a while.

Campusano was returned to the Cubs in October.

When we are in the heat of summer next year most of us will not be criticizing or questioning this trade.

What's to become of Timo Perez? It looks like Guzman is being given a golden opportunity to make the squad. Can't quite figure that one out. That would indicate that Marcus will be dealt and Inge is a lame duck right now. He'll be gone too and it will be a real test for DD to gut full value for those guys now that the other GMs know he has to unload.

I hope Inge can play 3B for someone and not have to deal with being a utility guy or, worse yet, go back behind the plate. He is a throwback the way he plays defense and there is not a more exciting guy at the Hot Corner in the game. Heard some talk they might try him in left!!! Seems stupid to me, that's what Thames, Raburn and Jones are for.

Are we still remembering we picked up Renteria? His acquistition seems to pale in comparison. That trade changed this team a great deal in that we improved ourselves defensively, offensively, and on the base paths. Casey was a great guy but he really clogged 'em up didn't he?

Shelton should play in Texas unless irony strikes twice and Casey ends up there. DD has an almost prophetic ability. He has let Monroe, Maroth, Ledezma, and Casey go and they all seem to have drifted into relative obscurity.

I hope Sheff has one more good year left. If anyone can shake off the stigma of the steroid nvestigation/scandal, it would be him. He is an important OBP guy in the middle of the lineup.

Surprised Hessman wasn't included on the deal with Florida. He could be trade bait too.

Is this the year that Bondo learns how to use a change-up?

I think Willis will stay and he probably throws after Verlander.

Maybe this year Nate will get better run support and be able to come up with a plus .500 record.

I think it is gonna be a good year. Sorry my brother had to leave the planet and will miss it.

Sorry about the loss of your brother Dan. Recently?

Thanks for correcting on Campusano. I think it would be a waste of Inge's talent to play him in left. Plus outfielders generally feature hitting as their first asset, don't you think? No question he could play the position gold glove style but hitting .250 with 20 HRs or so is not the production you want out of LF. The irony is that the Marlins are now looking for a 3rd baseman but they obviously cannot afford Inge. And his salary, relatively speaking is not that high. Why wasn't Hessman thrown in on that deal? At 30 though, he'd be nicknamed Pops on that team. It's going to be fun watching the Marlins this year. I think CF is Maybin's to lose and Miller should be a regular starter, and Rabello could be the regular catcher too. Speaking of Miller, Jason's piece on him was very good but sad. What a change in his mindset! One day he's fighting for a 5th spot on a contender, playing in front of 40,000 fans regularly, and the next, he pretty much is given a top 4 spot in the rotation of a team that has no chance, playing in front of I'm guessing much smaller crowds. These guys have the opportunity now to showcase their talents with less pressure and if successful they could benefit financially in the long run. Am glad my guy Chris Shelton will get a new opportunity with the Rangers.

Marty, yes almost a month ago now. He told me I would love Comerica park--I have never been there. I hope to in '08

From MLB Rumors.com:

"Phillies, Dodgers Not Interested In Inge

According to Jayson Stark yesterday, the Tigers are indeed shopping ousted 29 year-old third baseman Brandon Inge. He says the Dodgers and Phillies have already said no. My guess at the rationale: the Dodgers will go internal and are less concerned with the position, and the Phils want a good hitter at the position.

Inge seemingly peaked in '06, hitting 27 HRs with fine defense. That earned him a four-year, $24MM extension. He's got three years and $19.1MM left. His stock is down after posting a .688 OPS last year. Inge was a catcher as recently as 2004, so maybe he can don the tools of ignorance once again. There, his offense wouldn't look nearly as poor. Still, it's hard to figure out a team that would pursue him."

Dan I am very sorry to hear about your brother, that stinks. He was absolutely correct though you will love Comerica Park, I hope that you get to come.

Regarding Brandon, I really hate to see him go. I know he is one of those players that people either love or hate. I liked him and I really think that we are going to miss him at the hot corner. I wonder why they wouldn't consider putting putting Cabrera in the outfield and keeping Brandon? Frankly, looking at Jones I am not overly enthusiastic about him, hope I am wrong.

Where is this artical you are speaking of regarding Miller that Jason wrote?? I guess I missed it.

Just found and read the artical about Miller. It is sad, I really really hated to see him go. I like this deal, but I certianly have my reservations about whether we mortgaged the future??

Thaks GK. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Tigers deal with the Giants. Not sure what they have to offer other than Lincecum and Cain (both starters) but they could sure use Thames in the OF and Brandon at 3rd.

We still could use a healthy experienced arm in the bullpen.

I'm unable to contribute on a consistent basis at this time, unfortunately, but I'll toss this in.

I don't think Inge should leave. In the first place, "stuff" happens and he may end up right back in there. Secondly, and as I mentioned earlier, he made an excellent utility guy in 2004 and even hit better while doing so. Third, I don't know how many teams want a thirdbaseman who doesn't take his hitting seriously enough. Fourth, I'd rather sub on a winner than star on a loser, but that's just me and the approach I had as a player. It's about the team.

Dan, sorry about your brother. That's a tough one to take.

--Rich

Thanks Rich.
I just don't think it is fair to have him sit. It would be good for the team (maybe not the 6 million+ part) but he has expressed a desire to play third somewhere else. We should give a handshake and a hug and grant him his wishes.

the challenge is to get something of equal value for him and not give in to temptation that anything they get is OK since he isn't going to be playing anyway.

I think he most certainly will go but I think they might hang on to Marcus. He seems accepting of his role and he now is more versatile defensively than he was a year ago. He will round out a scary lineup against southpaws.

My guess is we will not see as many lefties as we might have now and this may also directly affects Curtis' production.

With Brandon going there won't be many guys around from the 100 loss crowd. Hope this makes Jeremy and Nate work a little harder.

Rich, I mentioned that it wouldn't make sense to keep Inge but I sure would love to keep him too. You know, you could make a case that Inge would be a great insurance policy against someone getting injured. Worth 6 mil to try for one year? I don't know, why not? Course it's not my money. Teams probably not excited about inheriting that salary and if the Tigers trade him, wouldn't be surprised if they have to eat 2 or 3 mil. Any other thoughts?

I agree Dan. I'd like to keep him but if he wants to go they should grant him that. The problem still is trading him with that contract, and like you say, getting some legitimate value in return. I don't know, this whole process has been sad to me. Don't like it much.

Dano, can't tell you how sorry I am to hear about your brother. Not sure where you are located. But I have access to tickets. Lets make that happen in 2008 and tip a comerica brew to him. I've no doubt we can make it happen. Meet you at the big tiger outside the main gate.

Men, I assume most of your comments about Inge were posted before reading about his meeting with DD. Point is he says he wants out. Like you, I wish that wasn't so. Many of us are attached to Brandon because he was a stand up guy in those horrible years, not long ago, and because he goes through brick walls to catch balls.

Perhaps he will think it thru and change his mind. However, he is under contract and we are under NO obligation to trade him. Right on to all of you who have said we should only do that if we can get VALUE. None of this junk like we got for MLB players like Maroth and Monroe.

If Brandon and his wife sit down and consider all the options, he has many many options RIGHT HERE. Much depends on what happens with Marcus and SHEFF. If SHEFF comes back strong and now that we have Cabrera, do we really need the one dimension that Thames brings to the ball club (power)? Therefore if he goes, now BI plays LF against LH's, other times CF against LH's, 1b or 3b when Guillen needs a rest or is injured, defensive replacement at 3b in late innings and bring that catchers mitt too, you can audition to be Pudges replacement.

Get away from it Brandon until after the holidays. Go down and enjoy yourself in VA. Clear your head, I think if you decide to stay you still get 375ab's and get into 125-130 games, a great wage, the love of Tnation and maybe a big fat ring.

You know Brandon, you really do have "A Wonderful Life".

Well put, JT, and pretty much what I was trying to say. I think Brandon should consider this deeply before requesting a trade. If he still wants to go, then I agree with you guys that the team should honor that, and I think they will. Make sure of what's best for the family, Brandon. It can still be good.

Seeing Brandon go is not going to be easy. He gives it his all everyday, but there is not a place for him. Brandon doesn't want to be a super sub or play catcher again. He was both once before and after finding a home at 3rd doesn't want to do it again. I could have seen Dave thinking of using Brandon for one year as a super sub then giving him the catching job. But he wants to only be a 3rd baseman.

The one thing to remember too is that Wilson, Raburn, Santiago, and most likely Timo (after Marcus is most likely traded with Brandon) will be coming off of the bench. Their combined salaries are less then Brandon's alone.

With Jones, Rogers, and Pudge's contracts coming off of the payroll next year, getting rid of Brandon's and Marcus' contracts now would help open up enough money to sign Cabrera to a longterm deal this year or next, and to give them a reasonable estimation on a dollar amount on how much money will be available to them next off season. Giving Dave again another advantage for next year that he has been so good at creating and using.

I don't want to see Brandon go, but I can't blame him for not wanting to be a super sub. Plus with Cabrera in the mix now and Mags on his way in a couple of years to becoming a DH, Inge doesn't have a spot on the Tigers as a 3rd baseman.

i think everyone is being too sentimental here. baseball is a sport, baseball is a business. brandon inge, for me, will not be missed. he's a stand up guy, a class act, but a .230 - .250 average just doesn't cut it for a thirdbaseman.

i've been hoping he'd get traded for a year. hes great defensively, but poor at bat.

would you all have rather not got the cabrera trade just so that inge can stay in detroit and not produce? the tigers organization wants to put a winning product on the field. they want the tigers to be a dominant team, like the early to mid 80s. they want to sell seats.

he wants a trade, so lets do it. ASAP..

i was at a party last night, and all the guys there, angel fan....

all those guys were talking about how they EXPECT to see the tigers win the WS this year. words like 'fearsome lineup' and phrases like 'i'd hate to be a pitcher on any team the tigers play' were being thrown around for a good hour.

I like Brandon Inge, a walking highlight reel most of the time, and it will be a shame if we have to lose him.

Looking back now, it's unfortunate that they kept Pudge. We don't really need that experienced guy behind the plate to help the young pitchers that we no longer have( for this year anyways).I wonder if Inge would be so willing to leave if he had a chance to be THE GUY behind the plate. He might have earned his keep at least. It will be interesting to see what team takes him at that price.

It would be a luxury to hve Brandonon the bench. But:
A) it would be an expensive luxury

B) He has said he want's to be traded

C) If you don't trade him his heart won't be in to it,

D) We might be able to pull off a deal for a relieve using him as leverage

With all the offense (and defense) in the lineup-we are still vulnerable on the mound. Especially in the bullpen.

Our starters should be OK but Rogers is physically, a question mark and Robertson and Bonderman have issues to work on. Willis has some adjusting to do and will be under pressure to produce.

If we have any trouble in the starting rotation we will see the bullpen struggle like they did last year. We have to count on Rodney to be rock solid, hope that Cruceta emerges as the new relief phenom, and dream that Jones can stumble his way through 3 run leads.

I know it's off topic but I just "watched" the Lions on nfl.com game center and I'd like to say they are
Predictable

Have no defense

Can't make the big play

They had a first and goal on the 1 of the Cowboys and had to settle for a field goal.

Hansen missed a 35 yarder that would have clinched the game.

They abolutely invited the Cowboys down the field and let them manasge the clock.

It was brutal.

Dan,

Cheering for the Lions is like cheering for the new guy that walks into a casino and plays blackjack. Every once in a while the guy's gonna get lucky (aka the Lions six wins) but you know soon enough, the house is gonna clean him out. My heart can't take the Lions-- they are just too bad. Man, that's disappointing.

As far as Inge is concerned, I think Dan's right that if we can get a reliever for him, that would be great. We may have to wait until the Spring when folks get injured in training camp and someone gets nervous. With Inge and Thames both available (my assumption), I'd think we could get a decent arm that might prevent us from watching the Tigers trot Grilli out there in pressure situations. (aka, the baseball equivalent of the Lions-- yes, I'm being unfair to Grilli but I get a similar queasy feeling in my stomach.)

Anyway, just checking in this morning. Have a good one guys.

All this Inge talk is depressing. Like I said before, he has been My Tiger for a number of years and will hate to see him go.
I also agree that if he thinks about it, he could be in the starting lineup in another year - catcher. His stats wouldn't look as bad there.

I think Brandon will miss out on a fantastic run in 08. It is going to be an exciting year for sure. Stick around one more year Brandon and if it doesn't gel with you after that, then go for a change in scenery.

Guys-- I just read Jason's mailbag and have some questions. No doubt,the Tigers have sent a lot of their top prospects to the Marlins and Braves this offseason to build up their team. However, I don't think we've completely emptied the cupboard. Let's focus on starting pitching as much of the mailbag did. Even after sending out Miller, Jurrjens, De La Cruz, and others, they still have some prospects, no? What is the potential for Vazquez, Tata, Bazardo, and other guys I'm missing? Are these guys professional minor leaguers or do they have a chance to make it in the bigs? I know they don't have Miller's upside but I'd like to think they could fill in if a starter goes down and Durbin/Miner or others in the bullpen can't step in. What do you guys think?

I'm interested in Bazardo myself. I saw some of the same things that drew me to Jurrjens. The ability to throw strikes, for one.

I also think Willis's first year in the AL works in his favor more than vice versa. Advantage Dontrelle.

--Rich

Ty, it is depressing. Don't you wonder what Jason's personal feelings are on this trade and the fallout produced? Like when he's fielding these questions. Inge's situation is a conundrum for sure. For 5 years or more, the Tigers organization had been getting high picks and in a manner of speaking, building up a nice little savings. Instead of "living off the interest" for some years, they suddenly "dug deep into the account", banking on more immediate results. For those of us who are conservative by nature and like to save it's tough to accept. For those of us who like to spend and take risks it was great. That's one analogy for what it's worth.

Question. If the Tiger's had only gone after Cabrera for a slightly smaller blockbuster trade (I love saying that), what would have been a fair offer in return? Or better, who would the Marlins have asked for out of those 6 players? Just askin'.

Brent, Rich,...anybody, how would you rate the 3 pitchers Brent mentioned along with the 4 traded?

Marty,

The story I heard (or read somewhere?) was that the Marlins wanted Miller and Maybin just for Cabrera. Adding Willis and the other prospects was (I believe) the Tigers' counter-offer. It sounded like it was a non-starter just for Cabrera, but who knows?

matt

OK, it's 4am, I can't sleep and all I can think about is the Tigers. That's what this trade has done to me. Mart, guess I'm one of your risk-takers.

Second, this is the best BLOG in MLB! The points you gentlemen raise are really fascinating. Someone almost always offers a perspective I hadn't thought of. Now that's cool.

As someone who really followed our MiLB System this year, I'd like to offer an opinion on the pitching left vs. what we gave up. You all know about Miller and so your opinion is as good as any there. I mean who knows about him? Jurrjens started out like a house afire and then MLB hitters started to get to him. You might remember that Verlander's first couple of MLB starts were terrible, but you never heard the staff say they had to tinker with HIS delivery. Hmm? I wonder about Miller?

As for Tata,Vasquez and Bazardo, based on results, the pitchers we gave up look better, than those three. In particular, at I believe age 27, I would think we would know if Tata was going to amount to anything by now. V and B, maybe, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Where I think you guys should be excited is this years draft (2007). Somebody is doing a **** of a job selecting pitchers. First you all know about Porciello. Everyone is comparing him to Josh beckett. Two other guys Hamilton (2nd rd) and Furbush (4th) were "lights out" in their first MiLB campaigns. Both did so well they had to be promoted to higher leagues and they responded well to those promotions. It took quite a while before anyone hit them.

I'm amazed that no one in MLB has been talking about the Tigers farm system. Everyone but Lakeland and our low rookie team made the playoffs. We've given up a lot this off-season from that excellent farm system. However, it was so stocked that the cupboard is not quite bare there yet. We will get some home grown help in the next couple years.

It's all good guys. I just want us to hold onto Inge if we can't get value. Remember he's under contract and I really don't think Brandon has it in him to be a malcontent if he has to stay here, do you?

I agree with Marty's risk/saver analogy-- I definitely fall into the risk category. Still, I think we'll see that the Tigers are stocked for quite some time. Here's my argument:

1) Its all about starting pitching and the Tigers know that its always better to keep solid guys than it is to sift through the free agent garbage bin. I believe the Tigers are working on these assumptions: Verlander is a stud that we can count on for 10 years. Bonderman has similar potential and should be at least solid for the same time period. Willis should be equally as effective as Bonderman for the next ten years and we can lock him up in a long term deal. Robertson could be solid for the next five years and, if treated right, could be affordable. Let's say that we sign these four guys for the next five years-- that's a pretty solid starting rotation for 5 years and possibly longer. We need a fifth starter. Rogers fits this year-- and Miner/Durbin can fill in if/when injuries arise. So-- what do we need? We need a fifth starter at some point. I've got to believe that between Bazardo/Vazquez/Tata/Durbin/Miner, we can bridge the gap to 2009 when Porcello is scheduled to ride in on his white horse. In other words, they gave up pitchers, but where were we going to use these guys if we keep the aformentioned starters?

2) Free agents and trades can be effective in addressing shortages in the field. Yes, the Tigers have gotten somewhat lucky in the market but look at their top guys and all of them except Granderson have come from trades or free agency. From a simple market stand point, more solid and cost effective fielders make it on the market than pitchers. Its a simple scarcity argument.

3) Granderson is a stud and can be relied on in center for a long time. The corner outfield spots will need to be addressed but see the point above.

4) Cabrera is ridiculously good and he's still young.

5) As jtennant says, we can continue to draft well. Just cuz others don't draft well doesn't mean the Tigers can't grow new folks. We can fill in the fielding areas like 2nd base and the corner outfield positions through the draft-- yes, it will take some years but our major leaguers are still solid.

Given all these points, and others that I can't think of right now, I think the Tigers made a great trade last week. The only argument that I can't really address is what David raises above: it is great to see a team rise up from the Minors and burst onto the scene. I'm not as seasoned as some on the blog but I do remember the rise of the '84 Tigers and that was just awesome. While I'm nostalgic for that time period, I'm not sure that its realistic and honestly, prefer to know that the Tigers will do what it takes to field a winner every year. Still, I'll acknowledge that its difficult to give up on great guys like Inge and others that we've watched come up through the farm system.

That's all for now. Any truth to the rumors that the Angels would trade K-Rod for Inge and Thames? j/k-- DD is good but not that good....

First rumors are in @ the Hot Stove regarding an Inge trade, and they cite Pittsburgh as the interested party. Not paying close attention to the Pirates during the season, I checked out their team stats and it does indeed look like they could use Inge as a starter. So, here's the question: who does the tigers get?

Again, just looking over their team quickly, I would really like to see a possible deal for Matt Capps. With the uncertainty regarding Zumaya, he could make a good fit with the Tigers. Sure, he doesn't hit Zumaya-like speeds, but we don't know if Zumaya will again either (though we sure hope so!!!). Capps does have a very strong fastball, though, and seems to be capable of the workhorse numbers the Tigers would need in the setup spot.

Any thoughts? Could we possibly be seeing Capps platooning with Rodney for the setup role?

-Alex

Brent and JT, very good comments. You guys do your homework. Makes me feel better about what we gave up and conversely, have left. The heart of this trade really involved 4 players(2 pitchers and 2 position players), our Tigers getting two All Stars(one of which is a proven superstar), and giving up two potential All Stars, one tabbed to be a future superstar. I don't mean to trivialize Rabelo who did a fine job as a back up catcher, and may well become an established starter. So when you come down to it, it was very much about money(or the lack of it)from the Marlins' standpoint. The real loss and disappointment must first belong to the Marlin fans who had to watch their team get dismantled again due to budget constraints. The best they can hope for is watching great young players develop, and if the stars come together ahead of time(before FA kicks in), they might even squeak in a playoff team. I'm warming more to this trade but still bummed about Maybin and Inge.

Alex, I was thinking Freddie Sanchez was the Pirates 3rd baseman but looked it up and saw that Jose Bautista was their 3rd baseman last year. In 532 ABs he hit .254 with 15 HRs, 36 2Bs, and 63 RBIs. Very similar offensive stats to Inge's last year. They are not a big paying organization. Wondering if this makes sense.