Sheffield thinks he'll be back Thursday

That's good news about Sheff, especially the part where he doesn't think he needs the cortisone shot. I've been wondering about this, Jason, is that a league rule that limits these shots to three per season?

Okay, no negative comments on the lineup from me tonight. Whether it works or doesn't, I like it. I remember Omar busting up the Sox over the years, and that 15 for 35 off Garland is a useable sample. Plus it puts Thames in between Pudge and Inge which I think is a good idea.

The only thing that some folks (not me tonight) could have a problem with is Inge being in there, but it really comes down to Brandon is just going to have to get his....uh....act together. I almost used an old army term there. :-)

I agree that Maggs doesn't make much of a DH at this point in his career.

I was looking up stats this afternoon and was thinking that he should play Infante. However I would still like to see Raburn in the lineup. The guys has no disappointed since being up here and has hit. But what do I know. I just look at batting averages and go HMMM I have to wonder why he isn't batting more.

It is a good idea to not bat Pudge an Inge back-to-back.

I am surprised that we are not seeing Casey bat against right-handers. JL must really like what he sees in Santiago.

Funny, Casey played without question agains righties and often lefties not that very long ago. Now he is bench strength.

I am not complaining. Santiago out there has been good and we have had a bonus bat from him so far. Also knows what do de when he gets on base.

You're right Rich--some of us would rather have Inge out.

I like Inge, he is exciting, personable but if he hits under .200 I don't think it is right to play him.

One more thing, on vacation this week and was doing a little research on the bullpen. Looked at it on paper and it was disturbing.

24 BLOWN SAVES by the bullpen

- 3 behind Bondo

- 5 behind Nate

- 3 behind Justin

- 4 behind Durbin

- 4 behind Maroth

- 2 behind Vasquez

- 1 behind Tata

- 1 behind Miller

And the bullpen is going to give up a few games it is the nature of the game, but just think if of those 24 it were half or a third we would be in first place and one of the best records in baseball.

Then I looked at the stats even a little closer (yes I was bored yesterday) and there were 21 games where the hitting didn't get behind the starting pitching with 7 hits or less and we lost the game. There were a few games were the starting pitcher got a no decision but we won the game anyway because of late hitting but there were still 8 hits or less.

Nate by far has been on the short end of the stick on this more than any other pitcher could easily have 7 more wins even if you cut in half then number of times he has been screwed. By my estimation he in total has given the team 14 chances to win and they didn't give him any help what so ever. When you put it on paper it is really quite amazing.

Casey is 2-for-10 lifetime against Garland, who has allowed a higher average to right-handed hitters (.306) than left-handers (.260) this year.

Not much point analyzing the lineup. What we need are players with spirit who go out on the field and simpbly have the attitude that thye WON'T lose.

This is not a pwer lineup by any means. 5 guys who are unlikely to produce a long-ball.

Hopefully we get some of that from Thames and Ordonez.

1st inning 1st complaint.

No idea why they don't run Granderson. He has a fantastic steal ratio, had a good lead, had a catcher who doesn't throw people out, and who on the Polanco foul took one off the knee. Perfect time to run. Granderson then doesn't get forced out.

They really could improve things by running him more.

Anybody notice if Pudge is giving a specific call for the 2 seam fastball?

When I say call I mean signal.

Punch & Judy hitters love our piching staff. Suzuki and Cintron now.
I think we are seeing a case of the flesh is willing but the spirit is weak.

Bonderman has not been helped much by Guillen today, but he is not throwing all that well. Obviously when you get yarded by Cintron you don't have it.

That's why I don't like Pudge hitting in an RBI spot. he is not a producer.

Clutch situation and he can't wait to swing at the first thing that isn't gonna hit him. Another too anxious pop-up with a big runner on 3rd base.

Nice AB by Guillen. Not sure why Pudge can't work a count, he's been around long enough, especially as a catcher, to know how critically important it can be and how it can even turn poor hitters into good ones.

Not a great AB by Thames either.

I sure don't want to watch Pudge hit this way next year.

Boy, teams like the ever so tough Chicago White Soxs seem to stymie our pitchers. Those tough 215 and 220 hitters. And our batters were tough tonight, Chicago has lost something like 20 of their last 25 games or something like that, it is just crazy.

I don't understand this team anymore, I don't get it. I love baseball and I am just getting so I assume that we are going to lose if it is a team below .500. John Garland has stunk the last 1 1/2 months and again we have a Cy Young performance. Why do these bad pitchers only perform well against us??

.

The club just does not "have it". They can't get clutch hitting or pitching, they are inconstent, they leave runners stranded.

There's no way that this ball team is going to pull off a miracle. They don't believe in themselves.

The other night Rodney and Jones didn't give you the pitching they needed to. Tonight the offense. Well they offens that game also died after they got ahead 7-0.

The bullpen has been good but the times lately when a super effort was needed they were'nt

Tonight when pitching fronm behind, Miner was fantastic.

There has been so much criticism of the bullpen and the starters this year but a major failing, believe it or not, has been the offense. I can imagine the numbers from July and August are nowhere near what they were in April, May and June. We need some solid help in the lineup and it will all start with a LHB.

Something overtakes these guys' psyche when the game gets to be "on the line". I won't use that cursed 5 letter word, but it's true. Last year too. Sheffield was supposed to help rectify that and he did for a while. They need more character on this team as they don't have enough.

I know this year is done. As I write I am not even angry, well maybe a little bit, but not tearing my hair out angry for sure. I feel this was an exclamation mark on the collapse we have witnessed the last 2 months. It seems like things are the way they are supposed to be.

Another sub .500 team loss and we are going from bad to worse. I hope the best happens for Kenny tomorrow but the stark realization is that even when we win a game now it just means there is 1 less to play. We have run out of string.

If this trend continues I hope they sit a few guys down and play the Hens and Maybin.

TOP TEN REASONS TO BE HAPPY ABOUT THIS ***** AND GUTLESS TEAM:
1.We can now concentrate on our four championship minor league teams all of whom are about to begin the playoffs.

2.We can concentrate on the individual awards we are vying for, i.e Mags batting title, Polanco batting title, Curtis total bases and extra base hits and 20-20-20-20 club etc etc.

3.Plentiful tickets again at Comerica next year.

4. More quality family time away from watching the tigers every night.

5. Wife will be happier not to be a "Tigers widow".

6. Tonight we are finally put out of our misery and all hope is gone. It's very freeing and frankly a relief.

7. More time now to watch 2006 highlights as we don't have to watch 2007 games anymore.

8. We can start scouting the free agents we might want to see the Tigers bid for in the off-season.

9. Clear answers are now available on which free agents of our own we want to resign i.e. Pudge can start walking now.

10. More time to start talking to teams about a package deal for Bonderman and Inge.

Please feel free to add your own to the list.

Dan, that's why Pudge should be hitting 9th and no higher. It's not a question of can't work a count, he won't work a count. He just doesn't get it. It's baffling really, he obviously has a high level of defensive awareness but it does not transfer to an intelligent hitting approach. After Guillen singles on his 11th pitch and Garland is on the ropes, Pudge wanted to, but couldn't swing at the first pitch frankly because it would have hit him. He then swings at ball 2, well high out of the strike zone. Not a clue... Not a clue. I'm sick of seeing good rallies die game after game because of this lack of thinking and disipline at the plate. It's plain and simply nauseating. And JL apparently puts up with it. He's hitting 6th! I'm afraid more of the same next year if he resigns. Thames then strikes out but at least he will take a ball or 2. That inning was the game because Bonderman was left in one batter too long and Cintron kills us again. Shef and Kenny, we need help!

My rant for the night.

Yeah, this is embarrassing, a little bit sad, and quite a bit unbelievable. The Detroit Tigers have somehow become one of the worst teams in baseball.

I knew it would be tough to repeat, but I thought some team would have a hot year and nip us out. I didn't expect this to happen.

I suppose there should be no surprise when we look at the numbers for this team, the main players of which are still here, for the last three seasons:

Aug-Sep 2005 21-37 .362

Aug-Sep 2006 24-32 .428

Aug-Sep 2007 12-19 .387

Total 57-88 .393

No comment needed, the numbers speak for themselves. I will say that both Trammell and Leyland rested players extensively, so it appears that approach doesn't work. I really don't know what to make of this.

The play that Guillen botched was damaging tonight. The hardest part of firstbase to learn, at least for me, was when to go for the ball and when to retreat to the bag. A thirdbaseman, for instance, can go after one until he can't get to it, but a firstbaseman has the added responsibility of getting to the bag for the throw. Athleticism and quick hands combined with good footwork can get you through a lot over there, but plays like tonight can only be learned through experience. I'd like to see Carlos start next season as the firstbaseman and allow him to work out these things during the spring.

As of now, we appear to be heading to a .500 season. Rogers and Sheffield are there to continue to give a glimmer of hope. Rogers, however, would have to pull off a Doyle Alexander and I'm afraid the return of Sheff won't make the entire offense as selective as they were during the first half of the season.

Those numbers tell a tale for sure. I hope it doesn't have anythig to do with a defeatis/loser mentality carried over from the bad, bad years. We do have personnel on this club that came from that era.

Someone said trade Bonderman and Inge. I can actually see Inge gone. Bonderman though, no. He's still young, has a devastating slider when it'sright and just needs to develop another pitch. Forkball? Changeup? Split-finger? Something to keep the hitters honest.

I think he owes it to the club to try some winter ball to perfect something.

At the least they could demand he start using his changeup more now. He can throw it but does not have any confidence in it. Nothing to lose at this stage.

A power pitcher with a big ego who can't strike people out is just going to fade away into mediocrity.

The Tigers are on the hunt for a first sacker (again). I have said this before, but I wonder if Guillen could play the hot corner? My concern would be his arm.

I only say this in the event the Tigers are able to procure a LHB power first baseman. He needs a place to play and shortstop is getting too much for him. I do like what he has shown us at 1B. Though he did not look all that spectacular today.

Granderson is going to have to remain at leadoff. He doesn't have the appetitie for driving in runners and his value is at the top of the lineup.

Crazy, but the moment they did not run him after his leadoff hit today I had a feeling they were not gonna score much. He steals second, Polanco gets him to third who knows what happens? Another misuse of one of JL's minions IMO.

There has to be a shakeup next year. The collapse in the series was embarassing. So was JL's managing. Seems like that can happen when the pressure's on. We need people who thrive on pressure, not wilt.

Marty-my lineup does not have Pudge in it at all.

I couldn't believe that they got rid of Monroe for what has been proven to be a High School Player (Maybin). Then they send a great utility man (Infanti)down! Infanti was the only one that got a hit tonite and scored off it, then JL pulled him for Perez. JL seems to be stuck on stupid!

My respected Bloggafriends. The time for analysis has come to a finality. I don't think it matters what Jim Leyland does at this time. When a career utility guy hits hs first HR of the year off of your pitcher, ou know there is nothing you can do. Thames left two runners at third even toug he had two outs each time. Just like Monroe, he has not been Mr. Clutch at all in the absence of Sheffield. I am still forced to defend Inge because he is such a good athlete. Defense like his is very rare. I see a major commitment to working on improving his hitting game. I think Infante is a great guy to have on the team, and again Casey showed that he is a professional hitter. I just don't think it matters now what Leyland does. By all rights, we should have won Sunday; Rodney and Jones were not sharp. Hannahan's hit was freakish; Cleveland shouldn't have won last night, nor should they have beaten Johann five times this year. But it is their year to show what they can do. Did anyone seeing Carmona and Byrd being 14 game winners with 4 weeks to go? I am as depressed as anyone out there, but God decided to give the breaks to a different team this year, leyland or no Leyland. Has he made mistakes? Plenty! But what a baseball man to have around. We will be back, because the bad breaks will move on to another team next year.

It was easy for JL to manage when the team was ahead in games. Even he could not foul it up. Seven games behind and can not beat the bottom teams.. Poor Podge..I love how the anouncers (homers ) talk about how agressive ( suposedly a positive ) he is at bat.. or for that matter several others..keep swinging at anything and the men left on base just continues to climb...

Those are the most telling numbers Rich. A definite pattern has existed for a while now. Was 2004 any better? These numbers are indicative of a team that loses its focus and will to win. While other teams begin their kick to the finish line, they run out of mental gas.

Pudge came along and helped to turn that around in 04 but his value to the team is just no longer there. It peaked about the middle of last season. Now Monroe and Maroth are gone.

Dan, I don't think it's a leftover defeatist mentality, but there is a lack of something. I would like to see Santiago and Infante return next year. They may not be leaders but I still like the way they play in August and Sept. Both of them know how to bunt for a hit, and seem to understand the team ball concept. I think the Tigers lack a true leader. We need someone with Shefs grit and determination, Casey's positive clubhouse presence, and Magg's pure hitting talent rolled into one. I know, that guy doesn't exist.

Good comment Ron Moore on Infante. I have always been an Infante supporter. Maybin will be a good player given time. Monroe was just not getting the job done.

Dan, my lineup doesn't have Pudge in it either. It sounds harsh, like baseball sacrilege or something, because he brought a winning attitude back to Detroit, but hidden behind that attitude was, I believe, a self centered style of baseball that has unfortunately hurt this team in the long run. Maybe I'm way off on this and I don't feel comfortable putting down a future hall of famer so I'll shut up now.

Dan, you've always had probably the most realistic handle on this team's problems and needs without letting emotions get in the way of pragmatism. I appreciate that. I haven't given up yet on this season and, deep down I don't think any of you have either, if you still have a little naive kid left in you. Am ready to take another jab to the midsection tonight. It will be interesting to see if Kenny has anything physically left in him to turn things around. Go Tigers.

I am afraid that I disagree wtih some of you. You cannot pin this one on Pudge or Bondo or Thames. They really lost this one as a group effort. Bondo was not his finest but certianly gave this team enough to win. Only allowing 7 of the 8 hits CWS got. Just two of them were bombs.

Thames screwed up, Guillen screwed up a bit but mostly not one of the hitters has almost anything to be proud up. Casey and Perez maybe they each had one at bat and one hit. They gave into Garland like they have done so many other times to mediocre pitchers. They are truly failed as a group today. Oh ya Miner was great but they all seem to do great when they are playing from behind.

Then to top it off Cleveland wins in the bottom of the 9th with two men out Nathan gives up a double and then a homerun to Hafner to tie it up then they win in extra innings. That is the 4th time in a week that Cleveland has pulled that off. And I lost track of how many times this year. Too many to count. It is ridiculous. They are like the Tigers were last year, they don't give up 9 FULL INNINGS. Cleveland has it and we dont the thing of it is I truly don't believe that they are a better team than us, they just want it more, and when they were playing bad in part of August and July they didn't pack it in. You would think after that great weekend against NYY they would have come out on top of the world. But par for the course they get up for the good teams and don't show up against the bad teams. A losing record against Oakland, Tampa, Chicago, lost last two series against KC, tied with Texas. Winning records against Seattle, Boston, tied with Yankees (and we didn't play them at the beginning of the year when they stunk). You get my point here.

You gotta win the series you should and they don't.

I sure hope this guy is wrong:

http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070905/SPORTS08/709050350/1129/SPORTS0104

Marty, you asked about 2004. I had left that out since that team resembled the current group even less, but I'll post it here. It's not a surprising outcome.

On Aug 1, 2004, 50-55. At the end, 72-90. That means Aug-Sep of 2004 is 22-35, .386. Right in line with the other years.

I read that, Dan. Lynn Henning is about as knowledgeble as many of the bloggers here, but he gets paid for it. He's also required to write something whereas we aren't. Thus you get nothing articles like this. I will say his leaning towards the club pretty much keeping the status quo may be accurate. I can see management writing off this season as an anomaly. Their stated goal is to compete for years to come.

Like I say, I hope he is wrong. Status quo will not cut it. If you are the Yankess in the 60's then the status quo is desirable but in this day and age of free agency and big money, teams have to change to compete.

The nucleus of a good team is here but there a re a couple of key ingredients that absolutely need to be obtained.

We need a catcher, we need a shortstop, we need a closer, we need a power LHB, and we need a couple of these guys to have grit and character. Some of these may be filled from within the current roster or internally from the minors.

I would be surprised if Nate, Marcus, Omar, Jones and Pudge are all here next year. At least two of them will be gone.

I think they will stick with Inge and Sheffield again.

I expect Marcus will get to ride the pine tonight. Looks like he has tired bat & glove syndrome. JL will likely play Perez and rightfully so.

If I were manager for a day and this lineup is considering that we are still "in the race"):

Granderson CF

Polanco 2B

Perez DH

Ordonez RF

Guillen SS

Raburn LF

Casey 1B

Inge 3B

Rabelo C

If nothing else it will give Ozzie fits in the middle innings if he has to go to his bullpen.

If we consider that "all is lost" and what does it all really matter then:

Granderson LF

Polanco 2B

Maybin CF

Ordonez DH

Guillen SS

Raburn 3B

Perez RF

Hessman 1B

Rabelo C

Leyland said during his postgame that he was giving Ordonez tonight off because of his heel. That could change, of course.

I'm starting to fall into the "all is lost" camp myself, but I'm still waiting (like a fool) to see how the Chicago series ends up.

That changes things. We may as well let Kenny hit for himself then!

We'll see. While Inge and Pudge have a reputation for talking themselves into the lineup, I have a feeling Maggs is a pretty good lobbyist too. :-)

Darn, I wish these guys would at least make a run at it. You can't win it every year, of course, but I sure would like to see them take it to the wire.