Derby or not derby? Derby it is.

Well I hope someone talks him right back out of it. Maggs was right the first time when he said it messes up your swing. Let those big uppercut swingers "entertain" and leave the pure hitters out of it. This entire All-Star thing is on my last nerve.

I agree stay out of it. It is ridiculous that he should even be in it. It isn't like he is a homerun king or anything.

This morning, on "Baseball This Morning" (on XM), Buck Martinez was talking about the "messing up your swing" argument about Home Run Derby. He said he doesn't think it's true. He said that most players do the same thing in batting practice (try to put on a show) most days and it doesn't hurt their swings. I don't know how true that is, not getting to watch batting practice very often, but I found it interesting. It's the first time I've ever heard somebody disagree with that assertion. Jason, you probably watch a fair amount of BP, do you feel that players showboat?

matt

I think it depends on the player. Most will tell you they're not intentionally trying to hit home runs when they hit him in a game. Well, once you get in the derby, you're intentionally trying to hit them. Putting on a show for early-bird fans in batting practice isn't the same as doing it in front of a sellout crowd specifically watching to see home runs. Plus, if you get to the finals, that's a lot of homers to hit.

I seem to recall Pudge having hitting problems after nearly winning the 2005 Derby. You remember where his season went that year.

I watched a few minutes of one of those contests once, and it appeared to me that they weren't using official baseballs, that they used some juiced up thing. And the pitchers stood very close and kind of tossed them up? Why don't they just hit off a tee? Personally I think it's like watching guys at a golf driving range. The banter between the guys is fun, but that's about it for me.

I remember thinking the same thing about Pudge, but it certainly didn't affect Ryan Howard last year. The psychological component of hitting seems to be so huge that if you *think* it might mess up your swing it probably will.

I agree that the personalities make the show. We don't get to see these guys relaxed very often.

matt

I'll be satisfied if Chris Berman can refrain from calling David Ortiz "Big Pappy." Doesn't he know it's pronounced like poppy?

Don't get me start on Chris Berman, I really don't understand the appeal. Big Papi isn't in the derby, though, so there will be a few less opportunities for Berman to tick you off... ;-)

matt

Along about Monday, we may have a thread going about the NBA All-Star...I mean, the MLB All-Star game (I get the two mixed up) and I have an entire list of things I don't like about it. Any muppet hecklers care to join me in that? :-)

So Maggs got "the call" from Selig's people. Good ol' Bud, my good pal Bud....

ANYWAY, Miller looked better tonight than any previous start, obviously. He's done better than I thought he would. As JL says, there will be some bumps, but he seems set to stick around.

My favorite play tonight was when Grandy threw out Pena and Rabelo stood in there. And Mr. Thames gave another good example of why it's good to have the big homerun bat in there. One swing, game over. For us, this time. You can't put a price on that instant lightning.

Look out Cleveland, it won't get any easier.

Well, I guess I owe everybody an apology, because (according to the Free Press) jokes like the one I made yesterday about Neifi's suspension "marred" last night for everybody. If that's true I'm sorry, because it was a great game.

matt

I missed last night's game but it sure must have been a fun one to watch. Marcus shows once again why it would be FOOLISH to trade him. Rich you're right about the lightning. That guy can hit. This team will get flat every so often and stink up the joint. That's where we come in:-) But they are a very powerful team and are honestly the best team in baseball. The Red Sox are close but still second best. Really they only need the bull pen to be adequate and they should get back to the playoffs. Look what they did to Sabathia and then to the Sox last night:-)

What's the story with Perez? Any new news? Was it amphetamines, and was he taking them to lose weight, enhance his playing, or does he just plain have an abuse problem? Not sure what you mean by your apology statement mstone, not having seen the game last night. We were all pretty brutal with Neifi last year, but I guess I would have to agree that making light of something this sad and disappointing might cross the line a bit. In any case you made your apology, and anyway, in this day and age of cynicism, I doubt too many feelings were hurt. This is baseball after all. But I've come to appreciate Neifi and I hope he can get back on track and put this behind him.

Rich, can't say as I have much of an opinion about the All Star Game. I know it meant much more to me as a kid because I always looked forward to seeing Kaline play. Not being from Detroit, I rarely ever had the opportunity to watch him play during the regular season, so it was a treat. (You older guys must remember how few times the Tigers were televised nationally on mlb's Saturday Game of the Week.) Yeah, for about two decades all you could see were The Big Red Machine and Earl Weaver's Orioles, sometimes the Cardinals, and of course the Yankees.

If I were Mags I'd just try to put some good line drive swings on the ball, and get out of the competition early.

I guess I should give a little context (it's all perfectly obvious to me). In a previous
thread, yesterday, I posted a quip about Neifi needing the pills to stay awake on the bench. This morning, as I was catching up on the baseball news, I saw an article on the Free Press' website saying that all the little jokes about the drugs "marred" last night's game for everybody. In the article, Shawn Windsor used a similar line as an example of the types of jokes that were offensive.

My apology to all of you is sincere, in that I wouldn't want to offend anyone who's reading this blog, but I also think Shawn Windsor should lighten up and I felt the need to vent about it a little bit. I'll shut up now.

matt

why is everyone so afraid of hurting peoples feelings nowadays....

who cares! people who have such fragile feelings should go and do the world a favor and jump off a bridge. (a very high bridge)

in the case of perez, again, who cares.

not a great player, the only reason people pretend to care about him is cuz he saved that no hitter for verlander. what else has he done this year to warrent such warm and loving feelings from everyone?

i guess it comes down to the fact that he's a drug user. they should just jetison drug users right out of the major leagues instead of suspending them. that would encourage people to stay off drugs.

anyways....

hope the tigers can continue to perform again boston. would be nice to either have a sweep or to win the series at the very least for some motivation going into the break.

its gonna be a good 2nd half of baseball.

Who cares??? Obviously you don't. I do.

Matt, don't worry about that one bit. I don't think that article should have been written by Mr. Windsor, at least not in the tone he framed it in. And the Free Press editors could have stepped in there, too.

In this day and age of blogs and radio talk shows, one has to have a tough skin. Everyone has an opinion to share, everyone is an expert, or so they think. If anyone is going to be bothered by what he/she reads or hears, it would be best to avoid that type of media altogether. Can you imagine the jokes Jay Leno could tell if Neifi was a more well known player? Anyway, nobody's night was "marred."

I personally didn't comment at all on this because there just wasn't enough information. It's a known fact that greenies are a part of baseball and have been for a very long time. Jim Bouton wrote about them in his 1969 book "Ball Four" as only one example. Neifi could have been taking them for weight loss. He may have popped one when he was put into a game late and wanted to perform well. He may have just enjoyed the buzz. The bad part about amphetamines is, they work. Very well.

Now I admit I myself went (slightly) off a couple weeks ago over Native American mascots. What we all need to remember is, this is an MLB blog. Our comments are read by a very wide range of people from all over the world. It's good that both our complaints and compliments are known to all, but we should remain cognizant of the fact that the person we skewer may be reading what we write.

Having said all of that, your comments, Matt, were harmless fun IMO.

You know what Matt, I agree with Rich after thinking a little more about this. You didn't cross any "line" as I originally wrote. If you did it was just with the big toe.-) Anyway don't worry any more about it. Harmless. If it was one of us who'd care?...ooo now I'm hurting my own feelings... But I'm still not gonna to jump off any "very high" bridge Deadhead:-)
We should still pull for Neifi to get his act back together. He's paying the price for breaking the rules(the law even), and maybe for other players who just don't get caught. A little compassion ain't a bad thing.

Now Marty, it's pretty sad when a person hurts their own feelings. :-)

The best rule of thumb for internet posting, a "Golden Rule" if you will, is to never say something you wouldn't say to the person's face. There would be a lot less flame wars if that was followed.

And yes, I would indeed call JL a "stubborn ol' coot" to his face. It's a term of endearment. :-)

I'd like to see that conversation, rl.

Don't like seeing Jones come in tied in the ninth...Will keep my fingers crossed.

Please, JL, don't tempt fate. Take Jones out! You got an inning out of him!

That was as good a game as you could ask for. I was surprised Jones was brought in for a second inning but I wasn't worried. He seems to have figured it out. That curve helps when he can drop it in for strike one. Some questions. Why wasn't Youkilis brought in earlier? And why did Francona hold Papelbon until the 13th? Not that it mattered in the end. Anyway a lot of strategy, lot of bases left loaded. Lot of stranded runners at 3rd. Craig comes thru and Jeremy pitches 7 scoreless innings after giving up the 2 run homer in the first...Seen that before. Rich, did you notice those two fans near the right field corner who appeared to have had their nights marred? I don't know... I thought I saw something there.

There are some things that you just never do:

a) bring Jones into a non-save situation

b) leave Thames to play firstbase in an extra inning thriller

c) play to an inside straight

d) use Jones for a second inning

e) bring Grilli into an extra inning thriller

f) get involved in a land war in asia

The ol' coot broke rules a, b, d, and e and got away with it! Not sure if he broke rule c..........

Hey, good win. Not only Bonderman was dealing, but the entire bullpen tonight. I think some of us said in May that Boston-Detroit would be an excellent playoff matchup, and that's still holding true.

We also learned that 44,000 people will wait a very long time to see fireworks.

:-)

---Rich

Wow, what a game! I was beside myself when Jones stayed in for a second inning, but it worked out. The fielding was a little sloppy, but the pitching held up in the clutch. Daisuke today, which should be interesting. I hope Polanco's injury clears up quickly.

Marty, Youk has been out most of the week with a lat strain, that's why they didn't use him in the field.

matt

Regarding Nefi, I think it is sad, but he did it and needs to be punished. And someone said earlier that they have learned to appreciate him. Well I guess that I have too. He does field the ball extremely well and I am not just talking about the Verlanders game, infact I would say that there are plays that he makes that Carlos never could.

Now on to last nights game, I think that most encouraging thing to come out of that game was the bullpen, was stealer. I thought for sure when we had the bases loaded in the 10th (maybe 11th I'm tired) with 1 out and we didn't get one run in we were toast. It was great to see th MOJO come back to the Tigers. GO TIGERS

g) "You don't pull the mask off the ol' Lone Ranger and you don't mess around with Jim... but we do it routinely here don't we...? Rich, yeah why did JL keep Thames in when the game went into extra innings(Rule B)? Would have made great sense to put Casey in. Yeah he routinely breaks Rule C too (figuratively). But GK you're right, it had to be MOJO; bases loaded and one out and you don't finish it, you figure you're toast. Then Boston does the same thing. Nobody wanted the MOJO. I don't think we see Boston held scoreless that many innings again.

Thanks Matt, I missed that about Youk. And at risk of stating the obvious, Francona wasn't going to bring in Papelbon until his Red Sox took the lead. They never did, but he finally HAD to go to him with just 2 pitchers left in the pen. And once the game went into the 9th tied there was never going to be a save situation for Jones. No sense in JL holding back, so he sent Todd in to preserve the tie(thus breaking Rule A, followed by D, and, by further reducing the equation, Rule E.

The only rule that matters now is TIGERS RULE. And don't show up in Detroit with a Japanese import.

Dice-K was off his game today, so it was a time to take advantage, and that's what happened. Sheffield gets himself ticked off at things, but then parlays the anger into big performances. Whatever works. Marcus is going to hit the Ren-Cen one of these days.

Just a breathtaking catch by Granderson, who is NOT in the All-Star game, and a good one by Inge. Factor that against the team's FIVE errors. The Yankees made five errors yesterday and I hooted on them all last night, then we turn around and do it. The one by Monroe was the last straw. That and when he stopped runing on that hit and run play. He needs to sit. Thames can take left and you can bring up Shelton to take a turn at first, or Timo and do what they've been doing.

To be fair, they did play at times like a team that had gone 13 innings the night before then played an afternoon game in the 90s.

Other observations:

Todd Jones is getting it done.

Manny Ramirez has to be the biggest slob in baseball, as that uniform doesn't look cool, it looks slovenly.

The Tigers are two games up in the loss column.

I hope Polanco can at least play an inning in the AS game.

The NESN studio reporter (reportress?) is hot.

Where is Chad Durbin?

Why does Nate go to 0-2 on so many hitters then start missing?

And finally, that was a darned good first half of the season.

It wasn't a pretty win there towards the end, but they pulled it out. Nate probably pitched his worse game, (really just two innings) and finally got a win, go figure. If I would of had to make a bet on whether we would win this game, I would of said no. Some really nice homeruns, Marcus smoked that ball unbelievable. Not to mention this game would of been different hadn't Granderson made that beyond spectacular catch over the wall just simply amazing.

Can't help but think that Craig must of thought that it was ball four when he didn't run that out. There must of been some kind of confusion. Craig is not a slacker. I will give him the benefit of the doubt on this one. But if someone could explain a rule to me, why was it an error on Craig after that throw to home plate. I think that the guys would of advanced anyway?? If someone understands please let me know

JASON??? Anyway great to sweep the Soxs. GO TIGERS

Wow. So much has happened in the last week. I've been aways and have been able to catch only portions of the MLB Gameday Audio. It was always nice to check in to Beck's and get the lowdown from Rich, Marty, GKT and everyone else. Kinda like home away from home!.
The extra inning loss to Cleveland was a tough one to swallow and a surprise in that Guillen was unable to deliver with the sacks packed and 1 out. There is no one on the team that I like in that situation better.

But--the guys came back to rack up 5 straight.

Miller and Bondo pitched excellent ball and Jones has been on top of his game. Not sure how things developed today as it looked like he put a couple of guys on in the 9th?

Disappointed to see the rotation that JL set for after the All-Star game. We are going to take in game 2 and 3 in Seattle and I thought I had Verlander's outing timed but see that he won't pitch till Sunday. Wierd. I would start Kenny on Thursday then follow him up with Justin. He could skip Miller altogether (though the way he is pitching he may not want to do that. Well anyway it looks like we will see Kenny and Bondo--you can't ask for much more than that.

C-Mo is struggling big time. He had a chance to do something in the 11th the other day and impatiently hacked at the first pitch against a desperate pitcher.

Pudge came through in extra innings multiple times.

Granderson still is hot and cold at the plate and Thames is actually proving he should be given the chance to play left field.

We still need a setup man in the pen and one that can fill-in as a closer for Jones when he hits his next rough patch.

C-Mo might wear a Ranger ini again IMO.

It is a "relief" seeing the bullpen operate more efficiently and dependably.

As to Neifi, well we can sentimentalize or defend him all we want but he was not a critical piece of the puzzle and the club is better off without him, even before the stimulant revelation. Personally I hope he gets it together but I don't think we will see him wearing the Olde English D again.

Raburn is gonna please fans and make a contribution. he is a multi-dimensional ball player and is ready for the show.

Look for the Tiger shirts and hat behind third on Saturday and in Row 1 down the left field line on Sunday!

P.S. Rich--I was thinking the same same about pulling Marcus for Casey.

Inge is making the plays but the bobbles are starting to get a bit scary.

I would assume Craig got an error because he didn't hit the cutoff man and Ortiz was able to get to second (Pedroia might have moved up regardless).
Not a pretty win but I'll take it. Still not sold on Robertson being effective enough for a playoff bound team but time will tell.

JSchaefer, I think that was an unfair ruling or judgement against Craig. Why should an outfielder have to hit a cut off man? By giving him the error, the official scorer(s) are assuming the runner on 3rd will score automatically. That's a poor ruling. The throw was one hop to the catcher, so it was accurate enough. I mean what do they want? Sure the base runner moves up to second on the decision to throw home, but the outfielder should never be held to conceding the run on a short fly ball like that. It was POOR scoring IMO. Encouraging mediocrity IMO.

Welcome back Dan. We've missed your blogs but Rich and the rest of us have been keeping things interesting. The Neifi story probably got the most discussion going. Lots of opinions, but as you say and most agree here, he will not be missed. And Raburn gets his opportunity. Things have a way of working themselves out. I don't necessarily think it's a given that Neifi's finished with the Tigers but if Raburn can contribute, yes Neifi will be gone. Unless you're Ozzie Smith a team cannot afford to keep a player hitting well below .200.

Curtis' catch was as special as any we might ever see. Marcus demonstrated why JL kept him in the game last night. Lightning ready to strike. Shef is meaner than a junkyard dog, isn't he? I mean that as a term of endearment of course. Loved the way he kicked dirt on home plate as he scored the winning run last night after getting plunked. I'm sure the pitcher didn't want to hit him, but Shef's thinking, if you pitch me inside you best not hit me, cause I will do my best to make you pay.

Nice finish to the first half. More interesting than last year, cause they've had to scrap through diversity and they've hung in there.

I've got two short comments on Monroe's adventurous day.

On the throwing error he was charged with, I guess he got it when his throw took that wicked hop and glanced away from Rabelo, allowing runners to advance. In that case, Rabelo could just as easily have been charged. I don't think it should have been an error at all. Also, I don't believe (I could be wrong) that you can receive an error for not hitting a cutoff man.

On the hit and run, I'm quite sure Craig did indeed think it was ball four, but that's not his call to make. His duty is to run hard to second, then worry about what the plate umpire called the pitch. He wasn't slacking, it was a mental error. And as I said earlier, it's a very hot afternoon following a tough 13 inning game the night before, so one could cut him a little slack. A very little.

I guess it wasn't so much that he didn't hit the cut-off but if you look at the gameday, the error was because Ortiz advanced (and not Pedroia moving up or Crisp scoring). I looked it up in the official rules and it appears this is the reason:
(a) The official scorer shall charge an error against any fielder:

(7) whose throw takes an unnatural bounce, touches a base or the pitcher's plate, or touches a runner, a fielder or an umpire, thereby permitting any runner to advance; or

Rule 10.12(a)(7) Comment: The official scorer shall apply this rule even when it appears to be an injustice to a fielder whose throw was accurate.

http://www.mlb.com/mlb/official_info/official_rules/official_scorer_10.jsp

I thought it was a cheap error as well but what the heck happened in the 9th? That was just poor effort. I'm hoping to see Marcus having a lot more starts in the outfield after the break (and less at 1st base seeing as Casey actually hits lefties well. If the point is to get Marcus at-bats have Monroe play center since Granderson can't hit lefties)

Good find, JSchaefer. That was an unnatural bounce all right, as well as an injustice. I guess we usually see that applied when the throw hits the baserunner, although it may be an accurate one.

The one in the ninth may have taken a funny hop, but it was moving so slowly that C-Mo should have still gotten it. Lackadaisical on that one. Can't let hitting affect fielding.

I agree with having Thames in the outfield and Casey hitting the lefties, but I also think Grandy should play against the southpaws too. I think he can learn to hit them, but more importantly I want him in centerfield everyday.