It's for three games, and he immediately appealed it. He was clearly upset -- not just by the suspension, or even the ejection, but also the way he feels like umpires are expanding the strike zone on him. More later.
Since this situation is escalating, I have a comment to make. I'm not condoning Sheff losing his temper, but what I noticed was that this umpire, instead of walking away, just stood there, daring Sheffield to come on, while poor ol' Jim nearly got crushed trying to restrain Sheff. He....just.....stood there. Why not defuse the situation by walking away? So let's suspend him for three games too. He didn't handle himself any better than Sheff did.
I realize this makes me look like a homer, but come on, the umpire has responsibilities too.
I think that this is totally riduculous. I cannot believe that this is happening. I am beginning to believe that the sports gods are out to get us. All I got to say is what the heck?????
I have to believe that the appeal will be upheld. It looks clear that the bat was NOT thrown at the umpire, and the Umpire's actions after the ejection were completely unacceptable.
Does it seem to anyone else here that we give a lot of homers uo to guys who don't have many?
Well truth is we give up HRs to guys that have lots of them too.
I don't see Sheffield winning his appeal. At least he can play pending as the roster is really physically challenged right now.
Granderson's arm ain't that bad---I have heard that his is weak spot but I really don't see it. He doesn't have a cannon but he gets rid of it quickly and is pretty accurate.
i dont see Sheffield losing his appeal. After watching the replay over and over, its obvious he didnt throw the bat end at the ump, and the ump should have never followed him down the line.
the ump was completely out of line
Ai Yi Yi!
I shouldn't have jinxed Granderson---Air Mail throw!
Now to all you Jones fans---you know what--you have a strike out closer in your pen and none of this happens.
I am on record as saying this is not the guy that is going to do it for this year.
Not sure if he knows how to pitch in anything other than the 9th---he was absolutely saved by Ordonez just now otherwise we are tied.
The club is snake-bit, injured, and playing without confidence---not a winning formula.
We'll be lucky to get out of this tonight.
I'll tell ya this was a BIG game for the club. They kept suashing the Indians' comebacks. That is so important. Kudos to granderson for the sac bunt that changed everything. C-Mo had a bad AB when he struck out in the 9th but you know what---Infante has been doing the job.
Let's hope we have no problems with Guillen returning--Perez is overwhelmed at the plate though he has handled the position adequately.
11-7 now and my bet is Todd Jones comes in and gets 3 straight now that they have a 4 run lead and there is no pressure
I'm also on the record as saying that Jones actually is a liability. C'mon guys give it to me for the sacrilege I have committed. I have been saying this for 2 years now and it is pretty clear that I have not been wrong.
The most imnportant Tiger right now is david Dombrowski.
And I am saying this as we have an 11-10 lead and only 1 out.
Delucci up and JL leaves Jones in. He is a stubborn old coot ain't he?
What a brutal performance. This has not been a good spring for Detroit sports fans.
Oops as I speak---Delucci wins it. Way to go Jones and way to go JL for being a stubborn old coot.
Bad times in Motown, and the club is playing like they did in September--where they are waiting for failure. What a shame.
Forgive me guys but that was dreadful. I am really ticked off at JL for being so damx stupid---beyond stubborn. Ther is more at stake here than JL's "wisdom". This was bad managing at its worst. Sure we will all focus on Seay not being brought in to face deluccin but Jones should have been out after Peralta doubled after the Haffner 2 run HR. Yeah he struck out the next hitter and that was the worst thing that could have happened. It was the illusion that JL needed to keep the guy he hangs his hat on, in. The batters did a remarkable job tonight but it is that age old problem of sychronizing your pitching and your hitting. They sometimes seem to be on totally different wavelengths.
Well 7 out of 8, losing to your rival, setup men injured, closer is finished as a MLB closer, starting staff is largely unreliable I just don't see wher the upside is anymore. They are playing like they expect they will lose. And if the majority of the squad overcomes this ther is alwyas one guy in the wings who makes sure it happens. Tonight it was 2 guys--TJ and JL.
Bring it on Beckers--I am being aunfaithful, over-reactionary, and whatever else you can come up with.
But I also see what I see.
That was brutal, it's a cruel game when it goes that way. Shades of 2003? Wow. Dan, your case has been made, your statements recorded. They must have hit rock bottom emotionally after this loss. Where does JL go from here? Yes I agree Dan, JL absolutely should have put someone else in. Stubborn, dogmatic. I was ready after the first hit in the 9th. Who though? Mesa? No. I guess after that performance anyone, maybe a couple of guys. The loss of Zumaya looks huge now. Rodney almost as big. Absolutely great efforts by the bench tonight, all for naught. They need to take a long look at what they have in the farm system. Real soon would be nice. I don't want them signing another veteran a la Mesa or Percival. There's got to be a live arm or two down there somewhere. Right now their hitters, including the bench, are doing all they can. The decimated pitching staff is killing them. Oh yeah, and this Cleveland team is on another planet right now. If they are really this good they are without a doubt the AL team to beat.
Well now Dan, if I ran out there to restrain you right now, I'd look pretty much like JL trying to restrain Sheff last night. :-)
As baseball losses go, this one was pretty horrible. I've got to put it mostly on Mr. Leyland. Certainly not a shining moment in his managerial career. It kind of reminded me of Mayo Smith, how he'd go to make a move and everybody in the ballpark knew it was wrong. Except him.
Jones shouldn't have pitched the eighth. He shouldn't have pitched the ninth after the eighth. You got a guy named Bobby Seay who could have gone after some of those Cleveland LH hitters. There's all kinds of other moves that my addled brain can't remember right now. Oh, and after seemingly handing the firstbase job over to Thames, he starts Casey. What is this, Sparky Anderson, where you didn't believe a word the man said?
ANYWAY.....the difference in my approach to Tiger watching is I tend to concentrate on who we have, not who we could or should get, or who we could have gotten two years ago. The fact is, Jones is the only closer we have right now. He could be close to being washed up, and I say that because of his age. Who knows? If he is, who you got? You can't plug in Zumaya or even Rodney. My thought is, if you're truly going to "mix and match" your bullpen, that includes the closer. JL could have finished this game off with several pitchers while leaving them all fresh enough for tomorrow and Sunday's games. He didn't show any imagination tonight.
In the long run, how do you acquire a closer? Promote someone? Bring up a minor leaguer? Trade the entire franchise for Joe Nathan? What we did in the old days was use whatever hot arm we had at the time, then go to the next one. Sometimes you discover a brand new closer that way.
In the long run, Cleveland won't continue to play like this. We saw that with Detroit last year and Chicago the year before. Whichever team keeps their collective heads together will be the one to make the late season run.
In the short run, we just need to win A game. Forget getting the split. Just win A game.
What the **** is Leyland doing or thinking continuing to put Jones out there in the 9th, every chance he gets. He is ANYTHING but a closer. How to excite the other team ? The vision of Jones strolling out onto the field ought to do it...
The guy is HORRIBLE. ANYONE and I mean ANYONE would be better in the 9th. ANYONE. Leyland needs to be checked for brain tumors !!!
The hnly thing that I can say is TERRIBLE. What the heck, giving up two two runs homeers with two outs.
Then just when it looks like they overcome it we go to the bottom of the eigth. Again in the bottom of the nineth. UGLY REAL UGLY, right now they don't even deserve my love.
Anybody got writer's "brain cramp" like I find myself with today. At least I feel better 12 hours later. Well if you could absorb that shocker and still retain some measure of love, respect and hope for this team, you still have a pulse. Reread Rich's last blog. He nailed it. Calmly kept everything in perspective and laid out the reality of the situation. One of the best so far Rich. This isn't September and the team is dealing with a lot of adversity right now. We better get used to it. As for Todd Jones, I still believe he can get the job done, and he has excellent character and attitude. He's a competitor and a team player. Yeah he's not the closer he used to be, he'd be the first to admit that. But he can still be effective. He hit 93 maybe 94 last night. The problem was lack of ball movement and control, (not to mention a Cleveland team on a different planet). Those are things that can be fixed, including Cleveland's trip back to earth. Jones had 40 saves last year, has 15 this year, and yes he can occasionally stink up the joint, sometimes 2 or 3 games in a row,but he's not finished as a closer...but JL's decision to bring him in in the 8th was not good. There are other guys in the pen. Would like to see more of Seay and Byrdak. At some point in time you have to trust those guys. JL knows that. He "kind of" admitted in a round about way that he made that mistake last night. In retrospect, leaving Jones in for 40 something pitches was a tad cruel. We won't see him tonight (you Jones nonbelievers should be happy), maybe not tomorrow either, so Leyland is going to have to try somebody else in the late inning/closer roles. Should be at least interesting. Lastly, I would have brought Maroth back out in the 7th on a batter to batter basis. Maybe squeeze another out or two out of him...given the concern about the "overworked" bullpen.
Some claim that Tiger pitching in the minor leagues is so deep that the Tigers could afford to trade away Humberto Sanchez, Kevin Wheelan and Anthony Claggett for Sheffield. If the Tiger farm system system was so deep in quality relief pitchers that they could afford to trade away Whelan and Claggett, I'd like to see some appearances by those relievers in a major league uniform this year.
I did not agree with the Sheffield trade because I would never have given two (2) young relievers for an old Gary Sheffield who is past his prime. Todd Jones will be lucky to still be in baseball in 2009. A very poor job of planning for the future by the Tigers in that trade.
There are some very good young pitchers in the minors and they are learning their trade as we speak. Not rushing them to the big club is, IMO, a good job of planning for the future.
Having said that, I also think we will see some of the youngsters this season, perhaps sooner than later. One advantage of bringing up new people is what I used to call the "Sparky Factor" but will now call the "Chris Byrdak Factor." Byrdak is being effective in part because the hitters aren't familiar with him. He said as much himself. You can get limited mileage out of that and, if you do it carefully, end up with a number of effective innings over the course of time.
Getting back to last night, the team actually played a pretty good scrappy ballgame. Two things went wrong.
The first, quite obviously, is misuse of Jones and his implosion. There's no rule that says you can't remove the closer for another pitcher, but many managers just stick the guy out there and let him sink or swim. I don't agree with that strategy. Todd was in big trouble and it wasn't only not smart to leave him out there, it wasn't even nice. I think Jim will do it differently next time. I'm hoping. Regarding Jones himself, we don't know if he's "done" or not. No way of knowing that. If anyone has an alternative idea, I'd sure like to hear it.
The second thing that has been happening in all these Cleveland games is this: they are indeed on Marty's "other planet." All pitchers make mistakes, none of them are perfect. Sometimes you get hurt, sometimes you sneak by. In the current situation, the Cleveland hitters are not only hitting each mistake, they're crushing them. I've rarely seen this, you'd have to go back over the years to find teams that got into similar streaks. Case in point, Mike Maroth in both of his last two starts. Mike pitched good games both times, but his few mistakes killed him both times. Cleveland can't keep this up and they could stop at any time. Perhaps even tonight.
If you follow, or "love" a team as most of us do, you get the whole ball of wax. The good times made more special by the bad times. In the end, although I can think of a few things (that I can't mention here) that are more fun, there's not much better than getting to watch your team play on a daily basis and just enjoying the summer game.
I didn't like that trade either, ogb3, but it's done now. Actually Shef is a fun player to watch. Every time he gets up you can feel the potential for a home run. It adds excitement to the game. I like his aggressive base running, fielding, and "general patience" at the plate. I've learned to appreciate what he brings to the game, intensity. And Shef plays the game much younger than 38. He's past HIS prime but it's a prime only a handful of players reach. He is INTENSE though. Maybe potentially a hot head but more of an intense competitor. The team needs some of that. Shef if you're listening, however that ruling comes down, let it go. It ain't worth it.
Okay, I have now had time to digest last night for a few more hours at work (I worked all day) and just what I am still ticked off about last night. I don't think that the JL did an effective job of managing his pitching staff last night. I was thinking back to last year a few times JL brought Jones in, in the 8th, it was a disaster back then too. I was talking with someone today and we both said that when we saw Jones coming in, it was TROUBLE. I like Todd Jones, and I don't think that he gets enough credit a lot of the time, but last night was beyond for me. I also think part of the problem may of been that Jones hasn't gotten very much work in the last 3 weeks or so. We have either been losing pretty bad or way ahesd and as we all know pitchers need to pitch in order to keep sharp. And lets face it he wasn't sharp last night, not at all. Our pitching staff is in a world of hurt right now, and I just don't see a real quick end to it.
And I know that people keep saying that it is only JUNE and I know that it is, but what I can't help remembering is that it wss one lousy game that kept us from winning the division. These Tigers are making me real nervous right now.
What I am afraid is going to happen is that the batters are going to give up, because they are going to eventually say that no matter what we do our pitching staff can't hold whatever kind of lead we give them.
as one of the biggest tiger fans on this site, i'm actually rather enjoying spring. in 2nd place, still a 'contender' WITH all the injuries. bring em on, injury here injury there, but the most substantial injury is Rogers, who is 'expected' back after the break. so whats the problem? zumaya will be back in august, rogers back, rodney(who i dont care for) will be back soon enough. better they have this rash of injuries NOW than in august (ex: Polanco last year). get everyone back, then beat the skin off the baseball.... i think thats what everyone and their doomsday predictions and disheartening....
the tigers are beat up right now, so its not suprising to me that they're getting beat up on.
there's 4 more months of baseball and what, 8-9 more games against each division rival? too early to hit panic buttons and run to the bombshelters. lets not get too down on the tigers, they're doing what they can do with the lack of pitching they're enduring.
personally, JL needs to be a bit more liberal with his "100" pitch count **** that leads to the exhaustion of the bullpen needlessly.
they need to have more clutch hitting
they need to give jones better help....... (SETUP MAN)
and they NEED to not let this get to their heads, they're injured, its not a cinderella season like last year, they have expectations in detroit and across the country now, not a place the tigers are used too. more national TV audience (espn and fox) than last year.... i think JL needs to give them a reality check. a nice talking to. get some motivation in here.
or maybe he already has.
'save yourself for the second have of the season'
kinda seems like thats something they're trying to do..... cuz, as you all know, first half of the season is meaningless beyond staying in contention.
lets not panic. wait til august for that :)
Nice job Tigers. Now THAT'S effective use of a bullpen. Chad is quietly 5-1. He hung tough in there. Jeremy can earn the split tomorrow. Maggs continues his torrid hitting. If he continues this pace and doesn't start in the All Star game, they should stop fan voting. Its a farce anyway. That's a whole other topic. Your comments are right on Deadhead. You don't mind being called that do you:)
That was better tonight, although I have to say I am still a bit uneasy about how things are going. Was anyone else appauled at the inequity in the strike zone between the two starting pitchers?? It was absolutely unbelievable. That pitch that he called strike on Pudge was so bad, I couldn't even believe my eyes. The bull pen showed up tonight, and luckily none of them where over taxed so everyone probably would be available tomarrow if needed. Great Job Magglio and Pudge.
That giant ******* sound you hear is the inhale from millions of Tiger fans after breathing that sigh of relief tonight.
Speaking of relief, there you go. A good job by all the guys. It CAN be done.
Seems we're having a problem with this particular umpiring crew. Let's hope we don't see them much more, if at all. There will be some internal review of this weekend's events, all behind closed doors.
After all of our discussion about the Cleveland hitters, the folks in Ohio must be muttering to themselves over how this Tiger team hits.
might not be a bad idea, inge isn't hitting, omar is....
Yes, Infante has a very athletic style of play. It's graceful and fluid. Covers ground, slick glove. He's got good speed down to first. And he has been very much in the scoring mix since playing. I have always been an Infante supporter. I'll go on record here as saying some of the occasional talk about him being a fine utility infielder/outfielder is disingenuous or condescending. I think he's a starter, if not with the Tigers then with some other appreciative team. I've heard some comments in the past along the lines that he can make the great play but botches some easy ones. So what? Like no one else on this team botches the easy ones? Speaking of errors, those 3 or so errors by Cleveland last night made the win that much sweeter, didn't they? Humbling eh? Last thought. We all know what Maglio has been doing but look how Pudge is coming on. Let's hope for a split today guys.
Rlpressley, speaking of umpiring, you might enjoy watching the following video from a September 17, 1980, game againt the Tigers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kl-4FSRYagc . Earl Weaver went nuts with first base umpire Bill Haller as a result of Haller calling a balk on Mike Flanagan with Al Cowens at bat and Alan Trammell on first following a sinle by him to begin the game. Lots of profanity, though.
Nice win and split in Cleveland. Although I can't help but say it shoulda coulda woulda been three wins. Oh well. I am just glad they didn't let it ruin them. I can't help but think that maybe it was a huge wake-up call to the bull pen that if some of them didn't get it together they maybe in jeopardy. Because lets face it they have blown 11 leads this year. Hopefully this was the stopper. Not that they are never going to struggle because this is baseball but it has been quite evident this year. Boy were we spoiled last year. Anyway way to go TIGERS.
OG, that is hilarious. Most of those "rhubarbs" between managers and umpires don't really amount to much and is really just both guys doing their jobs. In the case of Earl Weaver, the men in blue really hated him. Oh, and I see Ron Luciano is there, or course.
We probably shouldn't turn this into a video swapping board, but I have to share this one at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYpgvhvhTQE It's our own Rod Allen when he played in Japan, exchanging some diplomatic pleasantries with our neighbors in the far east. I've never seen ANYTHING like this one.
The Tigers finally just beat down Cleveland. In the end, I think it's the Ohio squad that will be rueing the next matchup. How about that bullpen holding them scoreless in each of the final two games?
Since this situation is escalating, I have a comment to make. I'm not condoning Sheff losing his temper, but what I noticed was that this umpire, instead of walking away, just stood there, daring Sheffield to come on, while poor ol' Jim nearly got crushed trying to restrain Sheff. He....just.....stood there. Why not defuse the situation by walking away? So let's suspend him for three games too. He didn't handle himself any better than Sheff did.
I realize this makes me look like a homer, but come on, the umpire has responsibilities too.
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I think that this is totally riduculous. I cannot believe that this is happening. I am beginning to believe that the sports gods are out to get us. All I got to say is what the heck?????
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I have to believe that the appeal will be upheld. It looks clear that the bat was NOT thrown at the umpire, and the Umpire's actions after the ejection were completely unacceptable.
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Does it seem to anyone else here that we give a lot of homers uo to guys who don't have many?
Well truth is we give up HRs to guys that have lots of them too.
I don't see Sheffield winning his appeal. At least he can play pending as the roster is really physically challenged right now.
Granderson's arm ain't that bad---I have heard that his is weak spot but I really don't see it. He doesn't have a cannon but he gets rid of it quickly and is pretty accurate.
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i dont see Sheffield losing his appeal. After watching the replay over and over, its obvious he didnt throw the bat end at the ump, and the ump should have never followed him down the line.
the ump was completely out of line
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Ai Yi Yi!
I shouldn't have jinxed Granderson---Air Mail throw!
Now to all you Jones fans---you know what--you have a strike out closer in your pen and none of this happens.
I am on record as saying this is not the guy that is going to do it for this year.
Not sure if he knows how to pitch in anything other than the 9th---he was absolutely saved by Ordonez just now otherwise we are tied.
The club is snake-bit, injured, and playing without confidence---not a winning formula.
We'll be lucky to get out of this tonight.
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I'll tell ya this was a BIG game for the club. They kept suashing the Indians' comebacks. That is so important. Kudos to granderson for the sac bunt that changed everything. C-Mo had a bad AB when he struck out in the 9th but you know what---Infante has been doing the job.
Let's hope we have no problems with Guillen returning--Perez is overwhelmed at the plate though he has handled the position adequately.
11-7 now and my bet is Todd Jones comes in and gets 3 straight now that they have a 4 run lead and there is no pressure
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I'm also on the record as saying that Jones actually is a liability. C'mon guys give it to me for the sacrilege I have committed. I have been saying this for 2 years now and it is pretty clear that I have not been wrong.
The most imnportant Tiger right now is david Dombrowski.
And I am saying this as we have an 11-10 lead and only 1 out.
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Delucci up and JL leaves Jones in. He is a stubborn old coot ain't he?
What a brutal performance. This has not been a good spring for Detroit sports fans.
Oops as I speak---Delucci wins it. Way to go Jones and way to go JL for being a stubborn old coot.
Bad times in Motown, and the club is playing like they did in September--where they are waiting for failure. What a shame.
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Forgive me guys but that was dreadful. I am really ticked off at JL for being so damx stupid---beyond stubborn. Ther is more at stake here than JL's "wisdom". This was bad managing at its worst. Sure we will all focus on Seay not being brought in to face deluccin but Jones should have been out after Peralta doubled after the Haffner 2 run HR. Yeah he struck out the next hitter and that was the worst thing that could have happened. It was the illusion that JL needed to keep the guy he hangs his hat on, in. The batters did a remarkable job tonight but it is that age old problem of sychronizing your pitching and your hitting. They sometimes seem to be on totally different wavelengths.
Well 7 out of 8, losing to your rival, setup men injured, closer is finished as a MLB closer, starting staff is largely unreliable I just don't see wher the upside is anymore. They are playing like they expect they will lose. And if the majority of the squad overcomes this ther is alwyas one guy in the wings who makes sure it happens. Tonight it was 2 guys--TJ and JL.
Bring it on Beckers--I am being aunfaithful, over-reactionary, and whatever else you can come up with.
But I also see what I see.
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That was brutal, it's a cruel game when it goes that way. Shades of 2003? Wow. Dan, your case has been made, your statements recorded. They must have hit rock bottom emotionally after this loss. Where does JL go from here? Yes I agree Dan, JL absolutely should have put someone else in. Stubborn, dogmatic. I was ready after the first hit in the 9th. Who though? Mesa? No. I guess after that performance anyone, maybe a couple of guys. The loss of Zumaya looks huge now. Rodney almost as big. Absolutely great efforts by the bench tonight, all for naught. They need to take a long look at what they have in the farm system. Real soon would be nice. I don't want them signing another veteran a la Mesa or Percival. There's got to be a live arm or two down there somewhere. Right now their hitters, including the bench, are doing all they can. The decimated pitching staff is killing them. Oh yeah, and this Cleveland team is on another planet right now. If they are really this good they are without a doubt the AL team to beat.
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Well now Dan, if I ran out there to restrain you right now, I'd look pretty much like JL trying to restrain Sheff last night. :-)
As baseball losses go, this one was pretty horrible. I've got to put it mostly on Mr. Leyland. Certainly not a shining moment in his managerial career. It kind of reminded me of Mayo Smith, how he'd go to make a move and everybody in the ballpark knew it was wrong. Except him.
Jones shouldn't have pitched the eighth. He shouldn't have pitched the ninth after the eighth. You got a guy named Bobby Seay who could have gone after some of those Cleveland LH hitters. There's all kinds of other moves that my addled brain can't remember right now. Oh, and after seemingly handing the firstbase job over to Thames, he starts Casey. What is this, Sparky Anderson, where you didn't believe a word the man said?
ANYWAY.....the difference in my approach to Tiger watching is I tend to concentrate on who we have, not who we could or should get, or who we could have gotten two years ago. The fact is, Jones is the only closer we have right now. He could be close to being washed up, and I say that because of his age. Who knows? If he is, who you got? You can't plug in Zumaya or even Rodney. My thought is, if you're truly going to "mix and match" your bullpen, that includes the closer. JL could have finished this game off with several pitchers while leaving them all fresh enough for tomorrow and Sunday's games. He didn't show any imagination tonight.
In the long run, how do you acquire a closer? Promote someone? Bring up a minor leaguer? Trade the entire franchise for Joe Nathan? What we did in the old days was use whatever hot arm we had at the time, then go to the next one. Sometimes you discover a brand new closer that way.
In the long run, Cleveland won't continue to play like this. We saw that with Detroit last year and Chicago the year before. Whichever team keeps their collective heads together will be the one to make the late season run.
In the short run, we just need to win A game. Forget getting the split. Just win A game.
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What the **** is Leyland doing or thinking continuing to put Jones out there in the 9th, every chance he gets. He is ANYTHING but a closer. How to excite the other team ? The vision of Jones strolling out onto the field ought to do it...
The guy is HORRIBLE. ANYONE and I mean ANYONE would be better in the 9th. ANYONE. Leyland needs to be checked for brain tumors !!!
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The hnly thing that I can say is TERRIBLE. What the heck, giving up two two runs homeers with two outs.
Then just when it looks like they overcome it we go to the bottom of the eigth. Again in the bottom of the nineth. UGLY REAL UGLY, right now they don't even deserve my love.
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Anybody got writer's "brain cramp" like I find myself with today. At least I feel better 12 hours later. Well if you could absorb that shocker and still retain some measure of love, respect and hope for this team, you still have a pulse. Reread Rich's last blog. He nailed it. Calmly kept everything in perspective and laid out the reality of the situation. One of the best so far Rich. This isn't September and the team is dealing with a lot of adversity right now. We better get used to it. As for Todd Jones, I still believe he can get the job done, and he has excellent character and attitude. He's a competitor and a team player. Yeah he's not the closer he used to be, he'd be the first to admit that. But he can still be effective. He hit 93 maybe 94 last night. The problem was lack of ball movement and control, (not to mention a Cleveland team on a different planet). Those are things that can be fixed, including Cleveland's trip back to earth. Jones had 40 saves last year, has 15 this year, and yes he can occasionally stink up the joint, sometimes 2 or 3 games in a row,but he's not finished as a closer...but JL's decision to bring him in in the 8th was not good. There are other guys in the pen. Would like to see more of Seay and Byrdak. At some point in time you have to trust those guys. JL knows that. He "kind of" admitted in a round about way that he made that mistake last night. In retrospect, leaving Jones in for 40 something pitches was a tad cruel. We won't see him tonight (you Jones nonbelievers should be happy), maybe not tomorrow either, so Leyland is going to have to try somebody else in the late inning/closer roles. Should be at least interesting. Lastly, I would have brought Maroth back out in the 7th on a batter to batter basis. Maybe squeeze another out or two out of him...given the concern about the "overworked" bullpen.
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Some claim that Tiger pitching in the minor leagues is so deep that the Tigers could afford to trade away Humberto Sanchez, Kevin Wheelan and Anthony Claggett for Sheffield. If the Tiger farm system system was so deep in quality relief pitchers that they could afford to trade away Whelan and Claggett, I'd like to see some appearances by those relievers in a major league uniform this year.
I did not agree with the Sheffield trade because I would never have given two (2) young relievers for an old Gary Sheffield who is past his prime. Todd Jones will be lucky to still be in baseball in 2009. A very poor job of planning for the future by the Tigers in that trade.
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There are some very good young pitchers in the minors and they are learning their trade as we speak. Not rushing them to the big club is, IMO, a good job of planning for the future.
Having said that, I also think we will see some of the youngsters this season, perhaps sooner than later. One advantage of bringing up new people is what I used to call the "Sparky Factor" but will now call the "Chris Byrdak Factor." Byrdak is being effective in part because the hitters aren't familiar with him. He said as much himself. You can get limited mileage out of that and, if you do it carefully, end up with a number of effective innings over the course of time.
Getting back to last night, the team actually played a pretty good scrappy ballgame. Two things went wrong.
The first, quite obviously, is misuse of Jones and his implosion. There's no rule that says you can't remove the closer for another pitcher, but many managers just stick the guy out there and let him sink or swim. I don't agree with that strategy. Todd was in big trouble and it wasn't only not smart to leave him out there, it wasn't even nice. I think Jim will do it differently next time. I'm hoping. Regarding Jones himself, we don't know if he's "done" or not. No way of knowing that. If anyone has an alternative idea, I'd sure like to hear it.
The second thing that has been happening in all these Cleveland games is this: they are indeed on Marty's "other planet." All pitchers make mistakes, none of them are perfect. Sometimes you get hurt, sometimes you sneak by. In the current situation, the Cleveland hitters are not only hitting each mistake, they're crushing them. I've rarely seen this, you'd have to go back over the years to find teams that got into similar streaks. Case in point, Mike Maroth in both of his last two starts. Mike pitched good games both times, but his few mistakes killed him both times. Cleveland can't keep this up and they could stop at any time. Perhaps even tonight.
If you follow, or "love" a team as most of us do, you get the whole ball of wax. The good times made more special by the bad times. In the end, although I can think of a few things (that I can't mention here) that are more fun, there's not much better than getting to watch your team play on a daily basis and just enjoying the summer game.
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I didn't like that trade either, ogb3, but it's done now. Actually Shef is a fun player to watch. Every time he gets up you can feel the potential for a home run. It adds excitement to the game. I like his aggressive base running, fielding, and "general patience" at the plate. I've learned to appreciate what he brings to the game, intensity. And Shef plays the game much younger than 38. He's past HIS prime but it's a prime only a handful of players reach. He is INTENSE though. Maybe potentially a hot head but more of an intense competitor. The team needs some of that. Shef if you're listening, however that ruling comes down, let it go. It ain't worth it.
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Okay, I have now had time to digest last night for a few more hours at work (I worked all day) and just what I am still ticked off about last night. I don't think that the JL did an effective job of managing his pitching staff last night. I was thinking back to last year a few times JL brought Jones in, in the 8th, it was a disaster back then too. I was talking with someone today and we both said that when we saw Jones coming in, it was TROUBLE. I like Todd Jones, and I don't think that he gets enough credit a lot of the time, but last night was beyond for me. I also think part of the problem may of been that Jones hasn't gotten very much work in the last 3 weeks or so. We have either been losing pretty bad or way ahesd and as we all know pitchers need to pitch in order to keep sharp. And lets face it he wasn't sharp last night, not at all. Our pitching staff is in a world of hurt right now, and I just don't see a real quick end to it.
And I know that people keep saying that it is only JUNE and I know that it is, but what I can't help remembering is that it wss one lousy game that kept us from winning the division. These Tigers are making me real nervous right now.
What I am afraid is going to happen is that the batters are going to give up, because they are going to eventually say that no matter what we do our pitching staff can't hold whatever kind of lead we give them.
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as one of the biggest tiger fans on this site, i'm actually rather enjoying spring. in 2nd place, still a 'contender' WITH all the injuries. bring em on, injury here injury there, but the most substantial injury is Rogers, who is 'expected' back after the break. so whats the problem? zumaya will be back in august, rogers back, rodney(who i dont care for) will be back soon enough. better they have this rash of injuries NOW than in august (ex: Polanco last year). get everyone back, then beat the skin off the baseball.... i think thats what everyone and their doomsday predictions and disheartening....
the tigers are beat up right now, so its not suprising to me that they're getting beat up on.
there's 4 more months of baseball and what, 8-9 more games against each division rival? too early to hit panic buttons and run to the bombshelters. lets not get too down on the tigers, they're doing what they can do with the lack of pitching they're enduring.
personally, JL needs to be a bit more liberal with his "100" pitch count **** that leads to the exhaustion of the bullpen needlessly.
they need to have more clutch hitting
they need to give jones better help....... (SETUP MAN)
and they NEED to not let this get to their heads, they're injured, its not a cinderella season like last year, they have expectations in detroit and across the country now, not a place the tigers are used too. more national TV audience (espn and fox) than last year.... i think JL needs to give them a reality check. a nice talking to. get some motivation in here.
or maybe he already has.
'save yourself for the second have of the season'
kinda seems like thats something they're trying to do..... cuz, as you all know, first half of the season is meaningless beyond staying in contention.
lets not panic. wait til august for that :)
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Nice job Tigers. Now THAT'S effective use of a bullpen. Chad is quietly 5-1. He hung tough in there. Jeremy can earn the split tomorrow. Maggs continues his torrid hitting. If he continues this pace and doesn't start in the All Star game, they should stop fan voting. Its a farce anyway. That's a whole other topic. Your comments are right on Deadhead. You don't mind being called that do you:)
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That was better tonight, although I have to say I am still a bit uneasy about how things are going. Was anyone else appauled at the inequity in the strike zone between the two starting pitchers?? It was absolutely unbelievable. That pitch that he called strike on Pudge was so bad, I couldn't even believe my eyes. The bull pen showed up tonight, and luckily none of them where over taxed so everyone probably would be available tomarrow if needed. Great Job Magglio and Pudge.
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That giant ******* sound you hear is the inhale from millions of Tiger fans after breathing that sigh of relief tonight.
Speaking of relief, there you go. A good job by all the guys. It CAN be done.
Seems we're having a problem with this particular umpiring crew. Let's hope we don't see them much more, if at all. There will be some internal review of this weekend's events, all behind closed doors.
After all of our discussion about the Cleveland hitters, the folks in Ohio must be muttering to themselves over how this Tiger team hits.
Tomorrow we'll probably have a 2-1 game. :-)
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anyone else notice omar infante quietly trying to steal inge's job....
might not be a bad idea, inge isn't hitting, omar is....
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Yes, Infante has a very athletic style of play. It's graceful and fluid. Covers ground, slick glove. He's got good speed down to first. And he has been very much in the scoring mix since playing. I have always been an Infante supporter. I'll go on record here as saying some of the occasional talk about him being a fine utility infielder/outfielder is disingenuous or condescending. I think he's a starter, if not with the Tigers then with some other appreciative team. I've heard some comments in the past along the lines that he can make the great play but botches some easy ones. So what? Like no one else on this team botches the easy ones? Speaking of errors, those 3 or so errors by Cleveland last night made the win that much sweeter, didn't they? Humbling eh? Last thought. We all know what Maglio has been doing but look how Pudge is coming on. Let's hope for a split today guys.
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Rlpressley, speaking of umpiring, you might enjoy watching the following video from a September 17, 1980, game againt the Tigers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kl-4FSRYagc . Earl Weaver went nuts with first base umpire Bill Haller as a result of Haller calling a balk on Mike Flanagan with Al Cowens at bat and Alan Trammell on first following a sinle by him to begin the game. Lots of profanity, though.
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Nice win and split in Cleveland. Although I can't help but say it shoulda coulda woulda been three wins. Oh well. I am just glad they didn't let it ruin them. I can't help but think that maybe it was a huge wake-up call to the bull pen that if some of them didn't get it together they maybe in jeopardy. Because lets face it they have blown 11 leads this year. Hopefully this was the stopper. Not that they are never going to struggle because this is baseball but it has been quite evident this year. Boy were we spoiled last year. Anyway way to go TIGERS.
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OG, that is hilarious. Most of those "rhubarbs" between managers and umpires don't really amount to much and is really just both guys doing their jobs. In the case of Earl Weaver, the men in blue really hated him. Oh, and I see Ron Luciano is there, or course.
We probably shouldn't turn this into a video swapping board, but I have to share this one at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYpgvhvhTQE It's our own Rod Allen when he played in Japan, exchanging some diplomatic pleasantries with our neighbors in the far east. I've never seen ANYTHING like this one.
The Tigers finally just beat down Cleveland. In the end, I think it's the Ohio squad that will be rueing the next matchup. How about that bullpen holding them scoreless in each of the final two games?
And the pennant race grinds on........
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