Tigers hitting coach Don Slaught resigned as hitting coach today, citing business and family commitments. One would imagine Leon Durham getting promoted from Triple-A Toledo to take over, but no news on that yet.
I daresay there is more to this than meets the eye.
Dan........ya think?
The only problem with bringing up "Bull" is that Maybin will not get his instruction until he is in the majors.
It will be interesting to see if whomever takes this assignment(Tigers' hitting coach)can create a rise in the OBP.
I would love to see Bull Durham promoted.
I've heard that Bull Durham is good, but what makes him so? In fact, does a major league hitting coach make any difference at all? How do you change the hitting approach of guys who have been in the bigs for five years or more?
Trying to get the Tiger hitters to practice patience led to a massive team slump. The opposing pitchers made adjustments, but our hitters obviously didn't. How do you teach that? Why does a major leaguer (not to name names) swing at the same slider for years?
I'm more inclined to think that what you have is what you have. Craig Monroe will hit about .270 with 25-30 homers next year. Carlos Guillen will hit about .320. And so on.
I'm just putting this up for discussion, you know. Or maybe I never got any good hitting instruction myself. They'd just get me so tied up in knots I couldn't have hit my little sister. And I don't even have a little sister. Sorry, old Groucho Marx line paraphrased there.
Hey gents, hows everybody doing?
Had some big projects at work so I've been away but it was fun getting caught up with y'all.
Jason, I'm so glad you're keeping this going during the offseason because, well, because we need it. Sad as that might be, we really need it. Its great that you're going to be here.
I mentioned a while back that it seemed to me, the Tigers as an organization had some hitting coaches with some mediocre career OBP's (Jason I'm afraid you might have hurt yourself there was so much spin in that Slaught article). Well Incaviglia and Slaught are gone and Leyland says he is not going outside the organization? Is it Nefarious? That would be one way to make him earn his 2.5. ****, it could be Leyland. Crazy as he makes me sometimes I love that he wears real cleats and hits pregame ground balls to the guys. Its pretty endearing.
Rich, one thing I like about you is that you're always interested in the really tough questions like can a hitting instructor make a difference. Well, it seems at the very least that they could create battle plans for certain pitchers and warn hitters how you think the other guys are going to come after you. If you are making the same kind of mistake over and over and over it SEEMS like it could be correctable. But even then, you are only as good as your students. For all I know Slaught was brillant all year and the boys just didn't pay him no mind. But after that series you got to do something.
So on to the off-season rumors, trades, deals and all that good stuff.
I like to think Tiger fans are different but I can't believe some of the craziness I have heard about ballplayers like Bonds and Sheffield. Tejada I find very hard to take serious (though at least it is attractive)
Why is everyone talking about Crawford and Matthews Jr??? Am I being naive again or is Grandy our guy. Period.
I hear that we need to sign a first basenman and I also hear that we should move Guillen and Ordonez and Rodriguez and Inge to first as well as resign Casey.
Don't hear much about Big Red and I'd be lying if I said I had a clue about what will happen to him. I'd sure like to think he's our first baseman next year.
We've talked about it but it would be great to work Marcus Thames out at first base in the offseason and spring training so we can get him into more games. A start or two a week at first and a couple at DH and he'll give us 30,75,275 next year. And there isn't a better or more deserving guy on the Tigers(I will not rail against Leyland here for his shameful treatment of Thames but I almost did)
Casey's option is like 8 million dollars and WS or no, he won't see that kind of money from anybody. I'd like to see them resign him but I'm afraid if we do then Casey plays everyday and I don't think that helps us in the long run.
You know DD and JL be dreaming about left-handed hitters the way some of us dream about mulatta dancing girls. Does that mean they sign Stairs and Casey??? And if they do what happans to the bush-league softball team??? Thin market in free agent left-handed bats.
Opening Day 2007
LF Soriano
2B Polanco
SS Guillen
RF Monroe
CF Granderson
DH Ordonez
3B Inge
1B Shelton
C Rodriguez
If I could bat Rodriguez 10th I would try (I want to not be upset about the series but I still am)(Still waiting for Rodgers to pitch game 6)
Soriano, as I've said too many times before, belongs in Detroit. He's the one free agent we should and need to sign.
For Farnsworth, we got Colon and Miner. Colon has talent but it looks like there is no room at the inn. Miner I think is valuable out of the pen. Sinkerballs for DP's and lets say he works on a 12-6 curve, or improves his cutter, and gets some strikeouts too.
For all those who would ship out Walker and Ledezma, good lefties out of the pen aren't hangin on every corner.
I say we trade a package of 2-3 pitchers like Colon, Tata, Grilli -- somebody like that because we have a logjam -- but not for an established guy but for the best AA or A catcher prospect we can find.
Why do people go on about Lugo at shortstop? How is an up-grade over Ramon Santiago who I think is a valuable part of this team, along with Omar Infante, and they both need to come back. Lugo??? What about my man Ramonito whos sitting right here.
The starting 5 are untouchable very much including Maroth.
Miller and Maybin spend next year in the minors.
Its time to give Inge a nice 4 year deal for 16-18 with incentives, like cherries on top. He has earned it and he will be better both at the plate and in the field next year. How can we consider anyone else at third?
Is Humberto our big surprise next year??? I can't wait to see him with the club.
Tata, Rayburn, or maybe Hooper???
What do you think y'all??
Rube, do ya think Soriano will sign with a team that wants to play him in the outfield? It would be nice(although, he made a LOT of errors out there this year, and I believe the only thing that can ruin our pitching is not being able to catch the ball).
There is quite a "buzz" about all our pitching prospects, and it would be a good time to package one or two that might be over-valued at this moment. Your point of trading for a young catcher is a good one.
If I had my choice, Tejada or Soriano, I pick Tejada(like my opinion matters......). He would field a little better than Guillen, and moving Carlos to first solves the first base problem as well. Also, Carlos would have a better chance of staying healthy for the entire year at first.
The conversations about Shelton remind me of those about Joe Charboneau(showing my age here)back in the early 80's. After a VERY nice first half of his rookie year, he levelled off........and never made the adjustments that the pitchers made on him. I would hate to see Chris fall to this same fate, but his second half certainly looked like he was incapable of adjusting.
Signing Stairs would be a mistake, wouldn't it? I would rather see Gomez get those at-bats, I think he would be at least as productive.
Without being in the lockerroom myself, Casey seemed like a great teammate, and Comerica seems nicely suited for his "in-the-gaps" power. If a move is made to allow Guillen to play first, then we'd have to let him go(too expensive to be a role player), but if Guillen stays at short, I think we have to sign him.
Well scratch I was being sarcastic about Stairs (I may be wrong a lot but I am consistent)
I couldn't agree more about Gomez who needs to make the club out of spring training and get a start or 3 a month. Everyone talks about what a great 5:00 hitter he is but we've seen glimpses of it (so has Loaiza) and he brings real leather to the field.
With Soriano, my thought and hope is that after that year in left he got to liking it or at least accepting it. From someone who watched him play a lot here in the Bronx, and was a big fan from his first few games when people didn't like him up here, I will say I just don't think he is a 2nd baseman. Someone on this site suggested he could play short but that is just madness. Baseball despite what they tell you on ESPN is pitching and defense first. Or in our case, maybe pitchers defense first. Polanco can not move to third for Soriano etc. All that is madness and we all know better. Nothing kills a pitcher like extra outs.
I admit that Scratch and others got me thinking about Tejada because of the extra outs that Guillen gives at shortstop. Carlito will make a fantastic play but I get tense everytime the ball gets hit to his right. Aside from the errors, Guillens lateral range is pretty uninspiring. But he is a tremendous hitter and presence on the ballclub -- the smartest player Leyland calls him. He isn't particularly fast but he runs the bases brilliantly because he understands the game. You know 20 75 320 from a first baseman is not as sexy as it is from a shortstop. But if we got 7 other guys hitting 20 then it doesn't matter.
Having said that I think Soriano is the better choice in every way. That means Shelton and thames and Casey at first and Carlito at short again.. As for defense Soriano led the NL in assists, got better as the year went on and should only improve. We show Soriano respect by giving him left and we move Monroe to right. Just from removing Ordonez we get a tremendous boost in outfield defense; though Monroe makes a lot of mistakes on his angles to the ball he has improved every year and I think next season is his breakout with the bat and the glove. The whole league knows what he is about, and if he can make the adjustments then that sweet swing will take him to the All-Star Game and eventual numbers of 35-120-.280
My guess, from the very few games Ordonez played at DH, is that he wants to be in the field. No one knows better than me just what a liability he is out there but the other said of the coin is that he is here in Detroit for at least 3 more, if not 5 more years, so he needs to be happy. He gets 45 million for the next three but if he gets like over 400 at-bats (and why wouldn't you play a guy that is making 15) the last two years that triggers the option for, 2-3 more with a RAISE. I doubt that Ordonez will make the Hall of Fame but I think Scott Boras is a shoo-in.
Because of that insane contract he is completely untradeable so maybe he needs to go to DH NOW, so he can used to 5-6 more years of it. It would certainly benefit the team. Monroe can DH once a week or so and Ordonez can get out there but not every day. It will prolong Ordonez's career as long as he doesn't eat donuts all game between at-bats.
I agree that Casey would be good to have around next year but only if Leyland signs a promise that Casey is not the starter. I would even give Casey a 2-year deal, but for 6 not 16. If the Mayor wants to get re-elected he gonna have a take a pay cut.
I definitely think there was a choice of resign or be fired, and since Leyland hasnt fired anyone in his career here we are. McClendon is the sure choice for hitting coach. I would like to see, based on some of the pitching we have seen come from Toledo, Jeff Jones be rewarded the bullpen job for some excellent work in the past couple years. I just have reservations on how good Durham is without the help of Larry Parrish. Let me know what you think?
I would guess Durham would be Slaught's replacement, but I'd like to know if Leyland has a friend he'd like to hire. I don't mean that in a cynical way at all. Managers tend to hire staff that they're comfortable with and I agree with that. I'm just wondering if there is anyone in the Tiger organization that meets that criteria.
I think the talk of signing Soriano is a non-starter. His agent does all his thinking for him, and he will ask for far too big a contract. Soriano only relented to play leftfield because his agent told him to do this year. He's not a good leftfielder and his high assist total stemmed from runners taking the extra base on him. You may recall Robert Fick being moved to rightfield in 2002 and immediately piled up a number of assists. There is also no way Soriano fits into the current infield. I just can't see this thing happening, and I'd rather not see it happen.
Actually, this year's field of free agents leaves a lot to be desired. The Tigers should look to fill needs, not sign supposed superstars. The Barry Bonds talk is a joke. In fact, I think they may not sign any free agent, at least not the ones everyone is talking about. They're better off, as mentioned above, offering a package of pitchers and strengthening the club via trades. Much of this hinges on Casey. I hope they don't feel they need to keep Matt Stairs. I like Matt, always have. I see him as a solid, throwback major leaguer who is dependable, but too close to the end now. I don't see as how there's a roster spot for him.
Ordonez will be in rightfield. He gets paid to be an everyday player and that's what he wants to be. Hey, it's better than having a guy who wants to make his cash sitting on the bench as a DH.
BTW, if anyone hasn't listened to Jason's audio interview over on Tigers.com, be sure to do so. It's about 13 minutes and, as always, has some good stuff in it.
I daresay there is more to this than meets the eye.
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Dan........ya think?
The only problem with bringing up "Bull" is that Maybin will not get his instruction until he is in the majors.
It will be interesting to see if whomever takes this assignment(Tigers' hitting coach)can create a rise in the OBP.
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I would love to see Bull Durham promoted.
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I've heard that Bull Durham is good, but what makes him so? In fact, does a major league hitting coach make any difference at all? How do you change the hitting approach of guys who have been in the bigs for five years or more?
Trying to get the Tiger hitters to practice patience led to a massive team slump. The opposing pitchers made adjustments, but our hitters obviously didn't. How do you teach that? Why does a major leaguer (not to name names) swing at the same slider for years?
I'm more inclined to think that what you have is what you have. Craig Monroe will hit about .270 with 25-30 homers next year. Carlos Guillen will hit about .320. And so on.
I'm just putting this up for discussion, you know. Or maybe I never got any good hitting instruction myself. They'd just get me so tied up in knots I couldn't have hit my little sister. And I don't even have a little sister. Sorry, old Groucho Marx line paraphrased there.
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Hey gents, hows everybody doing?
Had some big projects at work so I've been away but it was fun getting caught up with y'all.
Jason, I'm so glad you're keeping this going during the offseason because, well, because we need it. Sad as that might be, we really need it. Its great that you're going to be here.
I mentioned a while back that it seemed to me, the Tigers as an organization had some hitting coaches with some mediocre career OBP's (Jason I'm afraid you might have hurt yourself there was so much spin in that Slaught article). Well Incaviglia and Slaught are gone and Leyland says he is not going outside the organization? Is it Nefarious? That would be one way to make him earn his 2.5. ****, it could be Leyland. Crazy as he makes me sometimes I love that he wears real cleats and hits pregame ground balls to the guys. Its pretty endearing.
Rich, one thing I like about you is that you're always interested in the really tough questions like can a hitting instructor make a difference. Well, it seems at the very least that they could create battle plans for certain pitchers and warn hitters how you think the other guys are going to come after you. If you are making the same kind of mistake over and over and over it SEEMS like it could be correctable. But even then, you are only as good as your students. For all I know Slaught was brillant all year and the boys just didn't pay him no mind. But after that series you got to do something.
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So on to the off-season rumors, trades, deals and all that good stuff.
I like to think Tiger fans are different but I can't believe some of the craziness I have heard about ballplayers like Bonds and Sheffield. Tejada I find very hard to take serious (though at least it is attractive)
Why is everyone talking about Crawford and Matthews Jr??? Am I being naive again or is Grandy our guy. Period.
I hear that we need to sign a first basenman and I also hear that we should move Guillen and Ordonez and Rodriguez and Inge to first as well as resign Casey.
Don't hear much about Big Red and I'd be lying if I said I had a clue about what will happen to him. I'd sure like to think he's our first baseman next year.
We've talked about it but it would be great to work Marcus Thames out at first base in the offseason and spring training so we can get him into more games. A start or two a week at first and a couple at DH and he'll give us 30,75,275 next year. And there isn't a better or more deserving guy on the Tigers(I will not rail against Leyland here for his shameful treatment of Thames but I almost did)
Casey's option is like 8 million dollars and WS or no, he won't see that kind of money from anybody. I'd like to see them resign him but I'm afraid if we do then Casey plays everyday and I don't think that helps us in the long run.
You know DD and JL be dreaming about left-handed hitters the way some of us dream about mulatta dancing girls. Does that mean they sign Stairs and Casey??? And if they do what happans to the bush-league softball team??? Thin market in free agent left-handed bats.
Opening Day 2007
LF Soriano
2B Polanco
SS Guillen
RF Monroe
CF Granderson
DH Ordonez
3B Inge
1B Shelton
C Rodriguez
If I could bat Rodriguez 10th I would try (I want to not be upset about the series but I still am)(Still waiting for Rodgers to pitch game 6)
Soriano, as I've said too many times before, belongs in Detroit. He's the one free agent we should and need to sign.
For Farnsworth, we got Colon and Miner. Colon has talent but it looks like there is no room at the inn. Miner I think is valuable out of the pen. Sinkerballs for DP's and lets say he works on a 12-6 curve, or improves his cutter, and gets some strikeouts too.
For all those who would ship out Walker and Ledezma, good lefties out of the pen aren't hangin on every corner.
I say we trade a package of 2-3 pitchers like Colon, Tata, Grilli -- somebody like that because we have a logjam -- but not for an established guy but for the best AA or A catcher prospect we can find.
Why do people go on about Lugo at shortstop? How is an up-grade over Ramon Santiago who I think is a valuable part of this team, along with Omar Infante, and they both need to come back. Lugo??? What about my man Ramonito whos sitting right here.
The starting 5 are untouchable very much including Maroth.
Miller and Maybin spend next year in the minors.
Its time to give Inge a nice 4 year deal for 16-18 with incentives, like cherries on top. He has earned it and he will be better both at the plate and in the field next year. How can we consider anyone else at third?
Is Humberto our big surprise next year??? I can't wait to see him with the club.
Tata, Rayburn, or maybe Hooper???
What do you think y'all??
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Rube, do ya think Soriano will sign with a team that wants to play him in the outfield? It would be nice(although, he made a LOT of errors out there this year, and I believe the only thing that can ruin our pitching is not being able to catch the ball).
There is quite a "buzz" about all our pitching prospects, and it would be a good time to package one or two that might be over-valued at this moment. Your point of trading for a young catcher is a good one.
If I had my choice, Tejada or Soriano, I pick Tejada(like my opinion matters......). He would field a little better than Guillen, and moving Carlos to first solves the first base problem as well. Also, Carlos would have a better chance of staying healthy for the entire year at first.
The conversations about Shelton remind me of those about Joe Charboneau(showing my age here)back in the early 80's. After a VERY nice first half of his rookie year, he levelled off........and never made the adjustments that the pitchers made on him. I would hate to see Chris fall to this same fate, but his second half certainly looked like he was incapable of adjusting.
Signing Stairs would be a mistake, wouldn't it? I would rather see Gomez get those at-bats, I think he would be at least as productive.
Without being in the lockerroom myself, Casey seemed like a great teammate, and Comerica seems nicely suited for his "in-the-gaps" power. If a move is made to allow Guillen to play first, then we'd have to let him go(too expensive to be a role player), but if Guillen stays at short, I think we have to sign him.
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Well scratch I was being sarcastic about Stairs (I may be wrong a lot but I am consistent)
I couldn't agree more about Gomez who needs to make the club out of spring training and get a start or 3 a month. Everyone talks about what a great 5:00 hitter he is but we've seen glimpses of it (so has Loaiza) and he brings real leather to the field.
With Soriano, my thought and hope is that after that year in left he got to liking it or at least accepting it. From someone who watched him play a lot here in the Bronx, and was a big fan from his first few games when people didn't like him up here, I will say I just don't think he is a 2nd baseman. Someone on this site suggested he could play short but that is just madness. Baseball despite what they tell you on ESPN is pitching and defense first. Or in our case, maybe pitchers defense first. Polanco can not move to third for Soriano etc. All that is madness and we all know better. Nothing kills a pitcher like extra outs.
I admit that Scratch and others got me thinking about Tejada because of the extra outs that Guillen gives at shortstop. Carlito will make a fantastic play but I get tense everytime the ball gets hit to his right. Aside from the errors, Guillens lateral range is pretty uninspiring. But he is a tremendous hitter and presence on the ballclub -- the smartest player Leyland calls him. He isn't particularly fast but he runs the bases brilliantly because he understands the game. You know 20 75 320 from a first baseman is not as sexy as it is from a shortstop. But if we got 7 other guys hitting 20 then it doesn't matter.
Having said that I think Soriano is the better choice in every way. That means Shelton and thames and Casey at first and Carlito at short again.. As for defense Soriano led the NL in assists, got better as the year went on and should only improve. We show Soriano respect by giving him left and we move Monroe to right. Just from removing Ordonez we get a tremendous boost in outfield defense; though Monroe makes a lot of mistakes on his angles to the ball he has improved every year and I think next season is his breakout with the bat and the glove. The whole league knows what he is about, and if he can make the adjustments then that sweet swing will take him to the All-Star Game and eventual numbers of 35-120-.280
My guess, from the very few games Ordonez played at DH, is that he wants to be in the field. No one knows better than me just what a liability he is out there but the other said of the coin is that he is here in Detroit for at least 3 more, if not 5 more years, so he needs to be happy. He gets 45 million for the next three but if he gets like over 400 at-bats (and why wouldn't you play a guy that is making 15) the last two years that triggers the option for, 2-3 more with a RAISE. I doubt that Ordonez will make the Hall of Fame but I think Scott Boras is a shoo-in.
Because of that insane contract he is completely untradeable so maybe he needs to go to DH NOW, so he can used to 5-6 more years of it. It would certainly benefit the team. Monroe can DH once a week or so and Ordonez can get out there but not every day. It will prolong Ordonez's career as long as he doesn't eat donuts all game between at-bats.
I agree that Casey would be good to have around next year but only if Leyland signs a promise that Casey is not the starter. I would even give Casey a 2-year deal, but for 6 not 16. If the Mayor wants to get re-elected he gonna have a take a pay cut.
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I definitely think there was a choice of resign or be fired, and since Leyland hasnt fired anyone in his career here we are. McClendon is the sure choice for hitting coach. I would like to see, based on some of the pitching we have seen come from Toledo, Jeff Jones be rewarded the bullpen job for some excellent work in the past couple years. I just have reservations on how good Durham is without the help of Larry Parrish. Let me know what you think?
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I would guess Durham would be Slaught's replacement, but I'd like to know if Leyland has a friend he'd like to hire. I don't mean that in a cynical way at all. Managers tend to hire staff that they're comfortable with and I agree with that. I'm just wondering if there is anyone in the Tiger organization that meets that criteria.
I think the talk of signing Soriano is a non-starter. His agent does all his thinking for him, and he will ask for far too big a contract. Soriano only relented to play leftfield because his agent told him to do this year. He's not a good leftfielder and his high assist total stemmed from runners taking the extra base on him. You may recall Robert Fick being moved to rightfield in 2002 and immediately piled up a number of assists. There is also no way Soriano fits into the current infield. I just can't see this thing happening, and I'd rather not see it happen.
Actually, this year's field of free agents leaves a lot to be desired. The Tigers should look to fill needs, not sign supposed superstars. The Barry Bonds talk is a joke. In fact, I think they may not sign any free agent, at least not the ones everyone is talking about. They're better off, as mentioned above, offering a package of pitchers and strengthening the club via trades. Much of this hinges on Casey. I hope they don't feel they need to keep Matt Stairs. I like Matt, always have. I see him as a solid, throwback major leaguer who is dependable, but too close to the end now. I don't see as how there's a roster spot for him.
Ordonez will be in rightfield. He gets paid to be an everyday player and that's what he wants to be. Hey, it's better than having a guy who wants to make his cash sitting on the bench as a DH.
BTW, if anyone hasn't listened to Jason's audio interview over on Tigers.com, be sure to do so. It's about 13 minutes and, as always, has some good stuff in it.
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