Workout day

I hope you remembered to bring food. That's always the worst part of workout day -- no food!

-M.

I don't know, Jason, I think hearing about your job would be really interesting. Maybe you could blog on that a little after the season ends?

I would have thought the pre-playoff buildup would be a frenzy, but I take it we're not exactly having SuperBowl week here? Baseball is so cool.

I'm getting very excited about this thing. Sure, it's tough to play in New York, but won't that seem more like being in the playoffs than hosting Oakland for an afternoon game? Everything is going to seem larger than life. And, for all my gloom and doom predictions, it's still very possible to get three out of five.

To do this, the boys will have to really really, and I mean REALLY pitch. All of them, starters and every member of the bullpen. No bad innings, no hitting batters or going to 3-2 on all of them. Zumaya needs to be available every night for an inning, which means the other guys have to pick it up. Ledezma will need to get some big outs. I put Rodney on a very short leash. And no fielding mistakes that give the Yankees extra at bats, that would be sure doom. In other words, you have to play your tail off this week. Best of seven, you can have a bad game. You can't this week.

I've been wondering about Thames, and how do you work him in. I guess you really can't, he'll just have to go in cold. Funny thing, I've seen bunches of hitters come off an injury and hit a ton for a few days. There's alway that possibility.

It's going to be a long workday tomorrow.

Yanks should have been 7-0 against the Tigers this year, but Mariano didn't pitch the 9th innings of the games the Tigers won. The Tigers little run this year will end in a sweep. Does baseball have a mercy rule on runs cause it may be put into use for this series? And Boston still *****!

Well stated swingger. One thing I admire about you Yankee fans, you are never afraid of "going out on a limb" making difficult proctolognostications, are you? Yes, it is always a quandary trying to decide whether or not to bet when you're holding 4 aces and a king isn't it?.... Ah..The encumbering burden you must bear I guess.
You would do well to remember the great story of David and Goliath. Oh, I'm not so foolish as to make such a boastful prediction, that it might happen this week. But if not this week, or even this year, it will undoubtedly happen. Smooth and true flying pebbles have been known to bring down giants.

Oh boy, here we go already. Swingger4life (yeah right), save your childish comments for your buddies up there in Boston. I know you people live for this stuff, but unless you have something of substance to say, your comments will be ignored here. We don't engage in playground boasting.

There may be a lot of fans across the world who get tos what can happen when a team plays for each other as opposed to playing for a bonus and a fatter contract.
If you want to see how "baseball" and "team sport" are not contracdictions in tems then behold the Detroit Tigrs.

If you want to see celebrities, People, Esquire, and Playboy Magazine stories, then behold George Stienbrenner and HIS NY Yankees.

He has bought some great talent there and there are a couple of first-rate baseball players playing that would run through a wall for nothing but as a team, they can be beaten becasue they are operating on different frequencies.

The Tigers are going to surprise the NY Yankees.

Don't worry about it. There is never a shortage of hot air in NY. Like I said before, Steiny would have them dress like Dame Edna if thats what it took to win another game. Actually, given their vast resources, the yanks have performed relatively poorly, even it it was good enough.

The Tigers could go down in 3, make it interesting and then go down, or pull it off. Who knows? They have nothing to lose and seem to rise above the underdog role. Baseball is interesting in that way.

It has been a thrilling season even if it did not have the same Cinderella-esque melody as '68 or '84. In fact, this team reminds me of the '83 Tigers who did well but came up short. Oh, and how we could have used a reliable pinch hitter, like Wockenfuss was in '83, in any number of those losses in September. Lately, I've had the pleasure of thinking that with 6mos of intensive training I...

Therein is the beauty of this game, it can bring out the kid in you.

Whichever the outcome, the sun will come up tomorrow and the letter carrier will bring more bills. I initend to enjoy the journey.

Ooooohh! Swinger (can't you spell?) for life? Is all that swinging because you keep missing? You certainly have missed the point of being a baseball fan, that is for certain. Whether the Tigers beat the Yankees is not really all that important in the world, although to you, it appears to be just that. I'm not sure why. It certainly isn't going to bring YOU any fame, money or glory. Having grown up in a household full of Yankee fans and living in Yankee country, I have learned that most fans of winning teams have a little more class than to come on a blog where they obviously aren't welcome and blat out their bravado. Is your life so meaningless that you can only swagger over this, Swinger? The Tigers might not win a game, but one never knows. If they don't, big deal! If they do, Fine! If they get blown out, are you a sore winner too?

First, I got to say thanks to Jason and all who participate on this blog, it's kept a life long Tiger fan, thats stuck in Utah, informed and entertained all year! Second, Thank You Tigers! This season has been unbelievable, baseball with it's ups and downs is the greatest game ever played. Even if they go down in three, they have put that taste back in my mouth thats been missing for 19 years. One quick comment, look back to 2003 and what Pudge did with a young pitching staff against the yankees. This is our hope for getting by them, he's been here and knows how to win it all. Go TIGERS!

Let's bring on the cliche's.

"The game is played between the lines"

"It's a game of inches"

"It ain't over till it's over"

"and even this one:

"The bigger they are, the harder they fall"

We could see our club lambasted tonight or we could see Nate Robertson come in and do a Mickey Lolich impression.

What does the series look like if that were to happen?

Well it would mean we now have home field advantage.

We now have only 2 games to win as opposed to NY having to win 3

We now have momentum.

We now have the Yankees getting deperate.

We now have Justin Verlander pitching the next game.

One game at a time boys.

One thing for sure-- when this is all over there will be more Tiger fans on the planet than there are today.

Well looks like it's time to sart our shift.

My forst comment on an impending lineup today is a simple one. If Thames is not in it I would hope that leyland uses Odonez to DH and Gomez in RF

I have seen talk that he might just replace Thames with Infante. As much as I admire Infante I don't think that would be the right move. Infante is pretty much a fastball hitter and he will could look look pretty bad against Wang. That would do nothing for him on motivational level.

First of all with Gomez you do have the LHB against Wang and secondly you significantly improve your outfield defense. To me it's a no brainer. Gomez will Dive for a ball and will be in the neighorhood on anything hit out at that way. With Ordonez you get he will "slide" at a ball and anything over his head he'll be picking off the wall.

If Thames is healthy then this is all a moot point.

Glad to see you boys up early and stretching those adjectives, loosening up your punctuation and mulling over your metaphorical possisibilities. Swingger4life glad to see the bail money came through again.

Starting lineup for tonight:

CF Granderson

2B Polanco

LF Monroe

RF Ordonez

SS Guillen

C Rodriguez

1B Casey

DH Thames

3B Inge

This way we'll spread out our three left-handed bats and proffer our secret weapon in the 8th slot. He's so secret apparently our own manager is unaware of his power.

Dan is right of course, we got to pitch pitch pitch. No walks, no extra outs. Nothing but intense, smart aggressive, relentless Tiger basesball.

Nate when you got 2 strikes thats when you have to really get serious. Play chess with these boys cause every last pitch matters.

The whole bullpen just got the worst appearance of their lives out of their system. Good. Just in time because today it all starts over, we all o-o today.

Wang throws nothing but strikes we probably can't work him for walks. If we get something up in the zone its often going to be on the first pitch, and we got to smack it. I want to see that adjustment. Automatic first strike taking is not a good idea tonight but hit and run is.

Granderson gots to be thinking about the other way with a strike or two.

Ordonez and Rodriguez need to remember this is a hard heavy sinker, if it starts at your knees it aint going to be a strike. If we swing at stuff out of the zone its going to be a long night.

No more lame half swings for Inge -- if you want it papicito, take a hack. Think short swing, quick and decisive through the zone;I predict big things from this one. Those Yankee fans won't believe the leather Inge brings -- and at 22 mil less than their boy.

We'll need a monster series from Carlito.

C-mo is due baby.

I'm so excited I think I'm gonna explode.

I think Marty is my Tiger -- "smooth and true flying pebbles have been known to bring down giants". Thats beautiful man. You gave me a coffee spit take and chills up my spine all at once.

The world is watching boys, now is your time.

Van van los Tigres!

Rube--that was a cool expression. Let's just hope it isn't one thrown by Rodney at A-Rod leading off the 8th!

I think I am going to go ot and try to find myself a 6xer of Strohs, or maybe Altes, or E&B?

is there a baseball writer alive who picked the tigers to win this series?

the yanks have the advantage at every position, and its not really that close

its gonna be a tough tough series for the tigers

yanks in 3

We're gonna hold you to that prediction Dwight.
Surprise surprise--Tigers in Five.

I'd start Thames. He's been out so long, he may have forgotten what it was that was confusing him at the plate. I realize that sounds funny, but I'm actually serious. I also agree on that Gomez thing, but we know it won't happen. We have a higher opinion of him than Leyland does.

Dan, as we speak, there are already a lot more Tiger fans than before, simply because they're playing the Yankees.

I'm not going to make any predictions other than to say, if the Tigers were to win this, it would probably be in three. Call me crazy, then stop and think about it.

The Yankee starting lineup for tonight has a .330 batting average against Nate Robertson. Johnny Damon is 8 of 17.

and to quote buster olney "kenny rogers hasn't beaten the yankees is 278 tries"

Rich. I understand what you mean completely. The thing is I don't think the Tigers can win in 3.
Winning in 5 means playing a pressure cooker game with everything on the line and se know how those have gone lately.

How about 4?

Zito and Santana are pitching great. Joe Morgan is one of the bes color men I have ever heard in the broadcast booth. He has an excellent understanding of the game--probably because he was such an excellent player himself.
What skill he had! He had them all, speed power, bat control, batting eye and fielder.

Joe also learned the game from Sparky, one of the best baseball minds ever!

Game 1: Tigers 5 Yanks 2
Game 2: Yanks 6 Tigers 3

Game 3: Tigers 7 Yanks 2

Game 4: Tigers 6 Yanks 5

Scores, no less! Dan, did you come from the future?

Is this .330 average, plus Damon's 8 for 17 from this season only, or previous years? Does this count Damon's years in Boston, Giambi's time in Oakland, Abreu's time in Philadelphia, Sheffield's time in LA, A-Rod with Texas? I don't think Nate faced Matsui in Japan, so it probably doesn't count that. Hey, I just noticed something........

It's certainly not the first time but I've been thinking the same way boys; if we gonna do it, it's got to be quick, we do not want to roll back to the Bronx for game 5. Tigers in 4 caballeros and the hungry, hungry fans in Detroit get the celebration they need so much.

Rich, good point about Thames and forgetting, it has been a while since he's been out there and when you're sick it will seem even longer. No reason that won't work to his advantage. And remember, that bad game he had against Toronto was played with a 102 fever. Go down and get that sinker and drive it Marcus.

Jason,is Shelton traveling with the team? I don't want to bring anybody down but I can't stop thinking about the kid. Its not just unfair that he's not on the roster it is not smart. I still can't believe it.

I agree Dan, Morgan is terrific, I always learn something about baseball when he does the broadcast.

Two African-American managers and a Latino firied in two days, a too-white game just got a little paler. Frank Robinson is one of the best baseball minds alive. If he's not good enough who can they possibly hire in Washington? I was afraid Soriano might stay in Washington but know I think he takes a walk. Lets show him how much fun he could have in Detroit.

Shelton is traveling with the team, as is Mike Maroth. It's a tough spot for Shelton, but really, the last four months have been tough for him after that April. As far as smarts, he had to hit well off the bench to be valuable, and he couldn't. The fact that Jim Leyland thought of Infante over Shelton as a DH possibility if Thames can't go kind of sums up where he stood.

Hey Jason--we realize you are not really in a position to engage in dialogue with us brutes but my opinion on Thames unavailbility is that should it occur why not play Gomez in RF and DH Ordonez. Sure Gomez is a rookie, but it gives you a good hitting DH, a LHB in the lineup against Wang and improves your defense.

If Leyland doesn't see this then he isn't looking hard enough.

Thanks Jason, of course I understand what you're saying, and it even occured to me as Big Red was having trouble doing anything off the bench that Leyland was watching him closely, but our bench for the postseason after Infante, has no punch at all and thats where I think Leyland has made a mistake. Yes Shelton had problems when he got called up but we're talking about a very small sample size.

I guess when they pinch-hit Neifi Perez in the 12th inning of the game that decides the pennant instead of you, you know you're getting no love at all.

I think most of us were looking at Shelton to be playing some firstbase or DHing, but getting regular at bats. It appears that Leyland was in need of a pinch hitter which, I will agree, Shelton is not. I don't, however, agree with asking a second year player to do the job pinch hitting in the bigs. I maintain there was some mismanagement going on there.

Yeah Rube that says it all.
And Dan, I agree with you on the Gomez in RF against RHP. It makes sense. But it's one of those moves I don't think Leyland makes.

Rube, I couldn't believe Leyland did not chose Shelton to be on the roster. That was a crusher. And I feel they have too many middle infielders that can't help offensively. I think Infante and Santiago could have filled in admirably. We just lost a power hitter. JL ended up picking Santiago over Shelton, but we know he really picked Perez over Shelton. That is all I will say about that. I didn't want to mention it and get negative at this time but just had to have one last pre game gripe.

Dan you educated optimism is a GREAT thing right about now. I like your lineup. I know its a compromise with Gomez not inserted. Also you know how I feel about Granderson batting first, but he has spanked the ball pretty good lately. Please lay off those low ones Curtis!

Hey guys, I've got to share this. I came in for dinner and my wife had yankee pot roast on the table. I pointed that out and we had a good laugh. While I was washing up, she retrieved the package and crossed out yankee and wrote in Tiger. So we had Tiger pot roast for dinner.

Hey Marty, what up? I think it's my line-up you're talking about thats why there is no Gomez. I have no problem with Dan's idea but I refuse to consider that Thames is not playing tonight.

Tonight's lineup (the only one that counts)

Granderson

Polanco

Casey

Ordonez

Guillen

Rodriguez

Monroe

Thames

Inge

Same as the previous days, with the exception of Thames.

I'd rather have a more patient bat up first, like Sunday.

Yeah Rube, Sorry about that.
Hey here we go!!!

Geez,

They had it right the first time---B-U-N-T

Ordonez is not fast enought to hit and run with.

Not a very optimistic start. 1st and 2nd nobody out and a sinker ball pitcher --ya gotta bunt in that situation.

Anybody who has ever baseball or fastball know that it is much easier to bunt a drop or sinker than having to deal with someone throwing high and in.

2nd and 3rd would looked good. Giambi hit by pitch. I hope this is not a "here we go again".

Couldn't find any Stroh's today. Boy I need one--guess I'll have to reach for a Kokanee!!

Cheers guys!!

I know you guys are gonna think this is being said in hindsight but I sear I was gonna post this regardless of what Polanco did.

1st and 3rd is a far better time to hit and run than 1st and 2nd. You are not putting the lead runner at risk if the ball is not hit. On top of that if a throw goes to 2nd you have an option for the runner on third. With Polanco up it made pefect sense to me to hit and run and try to open a little more of right field up to him since he goes that way often. Instead they put nothing on and a pulled ground ball results in a DP. You hit and run even a pull ground ball and you get a run in.

Leyland has the right idea sometimes but the wrong strategy.

Robertson misses that ball and Damon is on---let's watch how this is managed by Torre.

When Ordonez' ball hit the wall I must admit I was actually p.o. because I have the feeling we need te ball over the wall to score runs.

I’ll shut up now. But what we just saw really points out how little things ar so important when done correctly. Nate screws up the nubber. Now you have some speed on the base paths.
You go 0-2 against Jeter (who may be the best player in the game today) the end up having to throw him a 3-2 pitch.

The key think I saw that inning was running Damon on the 3-2. I don’t why Guillen is covering the bag on what very likely is a ball that can be pulled hard. (Nate had to get the ball over the plate and Jeter was likely going to get a fastball. That should be Polanco’s bag—not Guillen and especially on a fastball count. It would have ended up being a double play and the rest of the inning doesn’t get to unfold the way it did.

Well Polanco despite a month off leads the Tigers in GIDP so the hit and run makes a lot of sense especially against a sinkerball pitcher.

I've said before that hit and run with Ordonez is a low percentage, really almost desperate play but even worse is trying to execute it with Rodriguez which is frankly a complete waste of time.

3 doubles, 5 baserunners and no runs -- ouch.

Robertson is getting the ball up and missing that grounder was deadly -- changed the whole inning.

C'mon boys.

I tried to post but this site keeps crashing.

Why are we playing small ball in the second inning? Let's first see if we can get Wang early and, if not, then go to the small stuff. I'm afraid that's the play I'll look back upon when this series is over.

You have to hit with these guys, at least early.

My lost post was better than this, but I'm not going to try and re-do it.

Dan I actually sais out loud to myself, have Guillen cover second because Jeter so often goes to right with two strikes. But if thats the play so have to go away with the pitch, or up and in (Jeter likes to inside out that to right also).

Yeah, if Robertson makes the play on Damon I think we are still 0-0. But we going to need to get some runs now.

THAT'S what I'm talking about! If the Yankees have any weakness at all, it's pitching. We can't run and bunt ourselves out of innings, we've got to hit with these guys. We can do it. That long slump is over.

Now as Emmanual Steward would say to Thomas Hearns, "You've got to let your big shots go."

Polanco must have been playing way toward second, I can't believe Abreu's grounder got through. Hope hes OK

Well I have no idea why Robertson is pitching to Abreau after Jeter chrushes him.

There really seems to be disconnect with any offensive output and following it up with the pitching you need to keep you in the game.

I also want to sya that I personally have lost a lot of respect for Pudge. On top of his lack of concrete production and anti-clutch hitting (two strike outs today), it made me cringe to see him smile his big smile after the pickoff of Jeter. How can you smile like that down 5 runs in the biggest game of the year and having struck out twice?

I'ms sorry Pudge fans but there's something wrong with picture. I need to see a game face not a happy face in those cirmcustances.

Tough one guys but I don't think we're gonna creep back into this one.

Even though the Tigers ****! I have to give it up to them for hanging in it and giving it their all. Maybe one day, your lame owner will spend some money on some real big bats this summer on players like a Soriano and not like Sean "penguin running" Casey. Or maybe the tigers should hire Matt Millen. He has done a terrific job with the Lions.

Well guys (except you swinger), that was disappointing but not unexpected after the one bad inning by Nate. He always has one of those it seems. No way he should have been pitching to Abreu in the 6th. He had been rocked by Jeter and had thrown a lot of pitches. I don't see the percentages in keeping him in. I mean he had given up 5 runs already and just put 2 more in scoring position. Leyland wants to use him in game 5 if there one. Just seemed like it would have been a good idea to take him out.

Now the hit and run thing. Leyland seems to like to hit and run with men on 1st and 2nd. The only dumber time to hit and run is with the bases loaded!

I think the hit and run can be very effective and if you are gonna do it with 2 men on then do it with 1st and 3rd. 1st and 3rd is even a good time to go with a straight steal if you have a guy like Granderson on there. You have a guy with speed going and very often he ends up with a steal or catcher's indifference. Then there is always the possibility of pulling off a trick play. Way more possibilities than risking your lead runner on a short throw to third.

They got beat and outplayed, plain and simple so I can't pin this on Leyland but the fact that he does call for plays like this makes me worry because who knows when he is going to do the same thing again. He is stubborn.

We're gonna need to hit a tonne tomorrow. I think Verlander's stuff is not going to be effective with all the LHB he is going to have to deal with.

Once he starts to get hit he just pours on the fastballs and with the Yankees the game can get outta hand pretty quickly if you do that.

I hope I am wrong.

If Polanco can get to that bleeder by Abreu, it's an interesting finish.

Congrats to Granderson who, in his first postseason game, got three hits, including a homer. Also to Monroe for going yard.

You can't come inside to Jeter. He just pulls his hands in and lines one somewhere. Going outside isn't great either, but he is a .343 hitter, after all. Any way you cut it, however, one of those guys will get you, so you better put those hittin' shoes on. The only interesting story of this postseason will be if the Yankees don't win it all. It's gone beyond ridiculous now. I just wonder why all these clubs continue to feed them players? You sign a youngster, work him through your system, get him to the big club where he develops into a star, then you ship him off to New York. I'll never understand this. It would appear that MLB needs to follow the NFL's example. I, for one, am really sick of hearing this Ronan Tynan guy sing that song every October.

For what it's worth, here's my take. Really not a bad game except for that lousy 5 run inning that never should have happened. If that's all they got the Yankees didn't really show me a whole lot. Jeter is always amazing, and he can really kill you...but the Tigers squandered early opportunities. Could have(should have) been up at least 2-0 before that 5 run inning. Got back into it in the 5th, and still stranded 2. I didn't think Wang looked that sharp. His pitches were so elevated in fact that a lot of Tiger hitters were underneath on their swings. Ordonez was underneath all night and in critical situations. But I'd have to say that he, as well as most of the Tigers were being patient and swinging at good pitches, just missing under. And what a great catch by Maggs in the right field corner! Wang did manage to induce some DP grounders when he needed them, and, no question, the Yankees can turn a very good double play.
But I liked the Tigers agressive/patient style of hitting. When they jumped on first pitches, they were at least choosing hittable ones.

Pudge continues to disappoint however. He was nowhere near hitting the ball tonight. Two strikes and he's swinging at everything. He was the one guy tonight that showed no plate discipline. I say bat him 9th and hope for the best. No disrespect intended. Just being pragmatic.

Nate killed his cause hitting Giambi not just once but twice!...in a playoff game!!! Giambi has a ton of power but he's not that good. Sorry Yankee fans. Keep feeding Matsui a steady diet of inside off the plate pitches and let him jerk them all for fouls. Then get him outside. He looks like lead itself in the outfield.

Far as offense goes, it's obvious now what the Yankees achilles heel is. Middle relief. The Tigers have to get to the starting pitching early and keep the pressure on. Can you imagine if the Yankees have to bridge from the 5th or even 6th to get to Rivera? Licking my chops!

Granderson looked right at home with the pressure tonight. He jerked that lefty's pitch into the night. He looks loose and like he's having fun.

Sean Casey is starting to grow on me. I'm feeling more and more confidece in him at the plate now. I have to admit, I've been rough on him, but he displaced one of, if not my favorite player. But it wasn't his fault. So I'm behind him now, cause we better be backing these guys now if we ever are going to. It took me this long to finally get to the point of accepting him and rooting for him.

Another thing, the play where Inge ran TO THE MOUND and literally picked up the fumbled ball in front of Nate and threw the guy out at 1st was an amazing hustle play. What's more amazing is that the Fox announcers were so preoccupied with some stupid side story interview with their guy in the stands, that they really missed it and never gave Inge any credit nor did they even show a replay. Unbelieveable!!

I did very much appreciate their mentioning Thames' tough young life. Man, if you're not moved by that you're ice cold.

I hope some of you saw the same game I did because this game was a lot closer than 8-4, and it will take just a little to turn that score around.

Go Tigers!!

Game 1: Tigers 5 Yanks 2
Game 2: Yanks 6 Tigers 3

Game 3: Tigers 7 Yanks 2

Game 4: Tigers 6 Yanks 5

0 for 1

I was gonna comment yesterday but i figured id let the lineup do the talking. To suggest that the greatest lineup in the history of baseball would only scory 15 runs over the course of 4 games is laughable.

As for the middle relief, please note that the yankees relief gave up 1 run as did the tigers.

Don't mess with Ronan.

Don't try to sugarcoat this loss by pointing out that granderson got three hits, and dont sell giambi short of his homerun. Its classless ans smells of bitter fans who just lost 6 games in a row.

No dwight, classless are all the fans at Yankee stadium that pelted peanuts at me for 9 innings anytime I had the nerve to standup and cheer for the Tigers.

What ever happened to sportsmanship and cheering for your team? It obviously doesn't exist in NY.

Dwight and other like minded Yankee fans, why do you do this? Why do you come in here, where we've had a wonderful, albeit small, group of long time Tiger who have spent a wonderful summer watching our team finally compete for the first time in 19 years, why do you come in here talking trash like that?

I say a good word for our rookie centerfielder and you call that classless? What's the matter with you? You have to come over here and ruin it for our little group of fans here? Why?

I just looked over at the Yankee blog for the first time and I don't see any Tiger fans in there doing what you're doing. Now Dwight, you come across as a well spoken and educated person, not one of those little kids who get off on trashing discussion boards. Why don't you just leave us to what fun we have remaining in what has a been a very special year.

If you don't understand any of what I'm saying, I feel sorry for you.

Dwight, if we were truly classless we would be posting at the the NY Yankees Blog.

BTW, you can believe the media hype all want but there is no way this lineup is better than the 1975 Cincinnati Reds or even the '61 Yankees.

Today's pitchers would have a much rougher time with Joe Morgan, Johnny Bench, Pete Rose, Tony Perez, George Foster, Ken Griffey, Dave Concepcion etc.

I'm changing my prediction today. Verlander throws a 1 hit (actually the 1 hit is a result of an offical scoreres ruling when Damon's easy 2 hopper hits the baserunner Cano who reached first on a HBP in the leg who was so hobbled by by the Verlander fastball that he couldn't get out of the way of the easy DP ground ball) shutout for 8 innings and Zumaya come in in the 9th and whiffs Jeter, Abreau, and Sheffield on 9 pitches for a 10-0 victory.

How's that for classless?

Wow somebody took a bit of girl juice this morning when he got out of bed.

Newsflash: Trash talking has been going on since the beginning of organized sports. This is just a new type of forum to do it in.

I just want to clarify a point. I wasnt calling the praise of granderson classless, I was calling the unneccessary bash of giambi classless. He beat you guys, accept it dont bash him. I think granderson was a brightspot for the tigers, but it doesnt change the fact that they got beat.

I would say something nice about Craig Monroe, but his mother's name is Maryilyn, and I never want to hear that story again

In reply to dan's response

the 1927 yankees are the closest line-up that compete to this line-up. And according to every espn analyst (sans joe morgan for obvious reasons) this is the best line-up of all time. Even jim leyland has conceded that fact.

As for Verlander, and a 1 hitter. You are telling me a gassed rookie picture, will come into the Bronx and throw a one hitter. Ok, but if i were a betting man I'd put my money on the fact that the yankees two hits by the first inning.

I just go by the numbers man, and the numbers say Verlander got shelled by the yanks this year and his splits over the last two months are horrible.

Can't say as I'm surprised by that response.

Dan - love to see Verlander do just that tonight.

Dwight - If this lineup truly was the best of all-time (and I know, Sheffield and Matsui were out for quite a while this season), it seems as if they would have won a few more than 97 games. After all, they won 114 in 1998. Yes, this lineup is good, but not unbelievable.

Another thing - Leyland never conceded the fact that this is the best lineup EVER. He did say that they were very good, and probably the best lineup in baseball this year. But he also said that he didn't feel as if the Tigers were underdogs. After all, they won just 2 fewer games than the mighty Yanks... and this was a team expected to do nothing this season, except maybe get to .500... the Yankees are SUPPOSED to be here (otherwise a colossal waste of $200 million). The Yankees have won 74 playoff games since the Tigers last PLAYED in one.

Finally - numbers say a lot of things... yeah Verlander hasn't had much success against the Yanks, but as everyone knows there is no such thing as a sure thing in sports... Verlander could toss a 1-hit shutout, or he could give up 10 in the first. That's why they play the games. So I'm going to enjoy some playoff baseball... with the Tigers.

I always like to watch Verlander throw. He has the physical ability and the swagger to potentially become a dominant and feared pitcher. He's got a way to go but watching him throw tonight in Yankee Stadium will be a treat for baseball fans everywhere. He could get thumped pretty good but the raw talent will be abundantly evident regardless.

I won't harp on Pudge but I think the Tigers would be wise to look hard for a good young catcher. He is not demonstrating leadership qualities in thought or deed right now and seems quick to minimize his lack of consistency and performance.

It would help immensely if he were able to contribute offensively.

Everybody else hit the ball yesterday and that is a good sign especially against Wang, who looks like a tough kid to hit off of.

We don't have a big strong strong LH power guy in our lineup to take advantage of Yankee Stadium. That is something the Tigers need as an everyday player next year. Anybody wondering if Gomez will get a start today? I don't think so but you never know with JL.

I hope Placido is OK after the tumble he took yesterday. I thought for sure he was done for the season when I saw him land on that shoulder. He's a tough nut though--came back and hit the ball well in his next AB.

I would like to see the Twins players move on but actually hope the team doesn't. I like their players and would like to see our division represented as much as possible but I think it would be an abomination of basebal to see ALCS or WS baseball played in that hideous excuse for a stadium.

Let's go play some baseball. It is is far more CONDUCIVE to play ball outdoors like it is supposed to be.

Duh-wight, you listen to ESPN analysts? That explains a lot.

The 1927 Yankee thirdbaseman, Joe Dugan, hit .269. The rookie shortstop Koenig hit about .273. The catcher, the immortal Benny Bengough, ****, I don't remember what he hit. I'm working from memory but maybe you could look the numbers up for me, since you go by the numbers, man.

Dan, my feelings about the Twins mirror yours. The entire face of baseball will change when a) they build a new ballpark and b) when Mariano Rivera retires.

One of my gripes with Leyland (other than the hit and run and non hit and run issue) was not yanking Robertson\ after Jeter roped a double down the line in the 6th.

Said Leyland about not making a change: "I certainly wouldn't have brought a right-hander in in that situation. And with Nate on the mound, I wouldn't bring another left-hander in for him. I thought Nate was throwing good that inning. He got two quick outs. He got a ground ball. It just happened to go through a hole."

So he would rather use a tired beaten up lefthander simply bec ause he is already in the game. As opposed to bringing in a fresh Jamie Walker out of the bullpen who has been used as a "situational lefty" all season long.

N.B. Ken Macha replaced Esteban Loaiza today after back to back solo HRs. He had pitched a fabulous game up to that point. Cudos to Ken Macha and thumbs down to JL.

You recall he left both Robertson and Rogers in too long last Wednesday and Thursday, at least IMO. Seems like he has to be slapped in the face, but the game's already gone. Last night, however, I had no problem with leaving Nate to pitch to Abreu. He did get the groundball. All that aside, you think he's lost confidence in his bullpen?

I'm enjoying the A's and I wish we'd played them. Would have had no different odds of winning than we do now, but it would have been more enjoyable. They've got some interesting guys.

They sure do. Swisher for one. We could use someone like that on our club.

I was mildly screaming at the TV set to pull Nate. I was thinking maybe that someone would hear?

That's why I thought JL had a righty and a letfty in the pen-for either of them to be ready if they were to get in trouble again.

With Verlander tonight I would hope he gives him only 2 chances to extricate himself from any serious trouble he gets in. You can't let the Yankees get easy or preventable runs.

I also hope (there's that word again) that Granderson is able to keep his bat on the ball like last night. That could make a big difference. He has shown flashes of liking to play at this level. That bodes well for the future. When he cuts his strikeout ratio down I think we will be looking at a guy who can .300 with 25 HR and 100 RBI--and it won't be in the leadoff spot.

I hope we see Zoom-by-ya tonight. I am not feeling the same re Jones or Rodney though.

Wow, what a misread by Hunter. I've got a high opinion of him, but that play hurt. Everything going Oakland's way, and the Twins are in big trouble.

If Verlander gets in trouble, we do need to see Zumuya for as many innings as he can pitch. Nothing to save him for, off day tomorrow. Go down with your best, at the least, not to mention the entertainment value for Fox. I'd also like to see JL let these guys just hit and see how the game develops before going to his predetermined running game. Tigers....running game....sounds strange. I think they've been out of that massive slump for two weeks now and it's time to turn 'em loose. If you small ball your way into three runs, you're just going to lose, 5-3.

One more crazy notion: it sometimes seems the Tigers have a better chance of scoring a runner from firstbase than from third!

I too was surprised Nate was still left in so long, as his stuff seemed to be fading. But don't think confidence is lost in the bullpen, rather it seems as though JL did not want to refresh NY memories of the rest of the staff in a deficit situation. He now has a heck of a lot fresh and wicked stuff available today.

I think JL left Nate in because he is capable of maintaining is focus in the face of adversity. JL seems to have a great deal of admiration of Robertson's attitude and growing mental discipline. It seems, at times, to be a message to Bonderman whose composure skills have been discussed here.

All in all, it's been a phenomenal season. However, there are three things I would like to see happen for next year:

1. We need a power hitter. Somebody who is a constant deep threat. Sure, it's nice to have decent power all the way through the lineup (6 guys with 19+ dingers) but none of those guys really strikes fear into pitchers. Maybe Thames will become this someday, but for now they need a guy who can rip it.

2. Zumaya taking over as closer. With this playoff experience plus the innings he's pitched this year (on a contender, no less), I think he's ready to be a full-time closer. Look at what Papelbon did in Boston this year as a rookie. Zoom-by-ya (nice, Dan) can close with this kind of success. Plus, developing the cutter the way he is, he can become a dominant closer.

3. We need a true leadoff hitter. Nothing against Curtis, but a guy with a .260 average, .335 OBP, and 8 stolen bases is not my ideal leadoff man. Especially when he strikes out nearly 3 times as much as he walks. Granderson is a great centerfielder with range, but I agree with dan - he doesn't belong in the top slot.

With the strong young arms and defensive-minded position players, we've got a great nucleus. Unfortunately, getting this team to the next level, playing consistently and avoiding late-season slumps, probably means parting ways with a couple of the Tigers regulars. Sadly, this is how baseball works. Go Tigers!

Good point about Robertson/Bonderman, Ergie. Very good. I've taken to calling Nate "Iceman" down the stretch, and it would be good to see Bonderman take on some of that personna. Of course, we're talking a 29-year old vs a 23-year old (never mind Bondo's experience), and I think we can get that from Jeremy in the future.

Speaking of Robertson, when he took that tumble on that Damon squibber, I was afraid that would temporarily mess up his pitching. I see that when a boxer accidentally slips. Knocks off the concentration. Seems to have happened, sadly enough. A big reminder that these aren't video players out there.

Conducive (give us a name and we won't call you that :-)), I agree with most of what you said, and believe me, it's been discussed here. I'm not entirely convinced that one power guy would help, unless he was a Soriano type who brought more to the table. Zoom is definitely going to be the closer, whether it's next year only time will tell. I love Grandy (I have the shirt to prove it) but yeah, he's not leadoff and I think everyone knows it. I wonder if they'll try to go out and get one, or wait for Cameron Maybin to come along. If Maybin is as good as they say, I wouldn't give up a whole lot to get a leadoff hitter right away. Maybe we can steal one somewhere. If Polanco wasn't such a good two guy, he'd be my choice right now.

I would add to conducive's list a contact hitter who can reliably slap a single, or at least put the ball in play when runners are on base. Perhaps my memories are pickled, but I still miss Wockenfuss. We strand sooooooo many runners.

Conducive is fine, but my name is Jason. I live in G.R., so I've had a chance to see Maybin play. I actually worked for the ballpark there for 7 seasons, so I've seen Zumaya (as a starter), Inge, et al. Maybin is GOOD. Real, real fast, great range in the field, and hits the ball well. I saw him hit about a 475' home run (into the parking lot, over the bleachers) this year, so he's got power to boot. He reminds me of Soriano more than anyone else.