Rotation change

I think we will see Miner start again for sure. Hopefully he will be effective out of the bull pen. When does the roster expand? I thought it was Sep 1st.

I see the lineup today. That's what I mean about stubborn.

Grandy is leading off and Monroe batting 2nd. Both of them are not suited for those roles. If one MUST play Perez then why not bat him 2nd?

Monroe should displace Ordonez at cleanup.

Kudos to Omar Infante for sticking through, what must be for him, a very humiliating season

Jason--do you hapen to have any stats that give you OBP and bat avg for Guillen when leading off an inning. I would imagine he has led off an inning quite alot if he is histting after Ordonez.

No offense, Dan, but why nitpick? Monroe is just fine at no. 2, and there is no natural lead-off batter on this team, as we all know. As I write, Monroe (batting second) has given us the lead with a homer, and Perez has just batted one in with two outs.

If you move Ordonez out of clean-up, you're basically saying you've given up on him. If the Tigers are going to do any damage in October, they are going to need a strong Magglio.

Dan, according to ESPN.com, Guillen entering tonight batting .301 (25-for-83) with a .376 on-base percentage when leading off an inning. He has the tools to be effective leading off, but he has said before that he doesn't feel comfortable as a pure leadoff man.

The lineup is a mess and I think you miss Dans point. If Monroe hits cleanup that is a 3-run homer not a solo shot. That felt like it could be a big inning and Ordonez killed it with another double play. The tigers have been getting one or two runs instead of 5 or 6 -- they need big innings because they don't have a lot of power.

Perez getting an RBI merely shows that anything is possible on any given night

Free Omar Infante!

Mags just did his thing again. I like the guy, but right now double play groundouts are killing the 4 slot. Please Jim Leyland, work some magic.

It's not nit picking. It's logic.
Baseball is a very old game and you can go back to any successful teams over the last century and will find the basic formula of an effective leadoff hitter, #2 move the runner around hitter, and cleanup hitter.

Monroe is a free swinger. Not a number 2 hitter.

Yes he hit a HR and a single. Too bad he wasn't in an RBI spot for those hits..

Yes Perez got a hit. 2 for 21 now--I guess the percentages were there.

Am I fair to Ordonez? Are 2 double plays an indicator of a good cleanup hitter? Are we going to have to worry about Ordonez' feelings or should we worry more about actually getting to October?

Without a true impact player on this team there is very little room for mistakes, either from the top or on the field.

Thanks Jason. I didn't realize that Guillen had said that. Also, thanks for the ESPN.com reference---I'll have to use that!

BTW-another nitpick is Perez not going to 3rd on a single to right with 2 out. Little thinngs win games for you.

I just don't think you get my point, Dan. Forget about getting to October. Don't you agree that the Tigers need a good-hitting Ordonez to do well IN October?

And hey, pal, it's not about feelings, but thank God Layland isn't as cavalier as you about switching around the lineup all the time. What are you gonna do when Monroe cools down? Put someone else in no. 4??? That's not logic, it's musical chairs.

You may be right, we may have to forget about getting to October.

It's s shame to see such a powerful pitching performance against Haffner go to waste. Actually I would've walked him. Great job but it was not followed up with the thing this club really lacks. Belief in themselves and a killer instinct.

No more SI covers please!

With 33 games left, there's plenty of time for the Tigers to start winning again. But isn't the real problem the pitching? They didn't get the best record in baseball with patience at the plate or with the perfect lineup. They did it with pitching and it's the pitchers who worry me.

I think you are right about how they got here but to keep up that pace the starters had going was pretty much impossibile. That is why you need to get the offense going.
Every component has to be working most of the time.

Patience at the plate is a virtue and without it you end up hurting your at bat and your club.

Guillen and Casey both made first pitch outs in the 5th and who knows how big of an inning that could have been agains a pitcher who was struggling. Westbrook got off the hook easy whereas a little patience might have resulted in those guys being able to see a 2-0 fastball.

Verlander didn't do well but he also had a bad call from the ump on a 2 strike pitch at the knees to Inglett that had been a strike all night before then.

Steve, this is a really nice outlet for fans to express themselves. I disagree with you and you with me but that's what makes armchair managing interesting. I was gonna say fun--but this is not much fun.

It's still not the pitchers who worry me. It's when you get two men on that you never seal the deal. The Million Dollar Babys are getting paid a lot to hit groundouts. I watch the games every night. I almost ready to look to next year. This Titanic has a bigger hole than the original one. And it's breakin my heart.

That was brutal.
I know the feeling well David.

As I said a few days ago--I think the Tigers are playing very "polite" baseball right now.

It seems they don't have the knack of putting a team away after they score. Yesterday and today. Killer Instinct. I hope they can develop it.

Seems like a negative way of looking at things but the best we can do right now is have Minnesota and the White Sox beat up on each other.

Hang in there David, there's nothing we can do but sit and watch.

Thank. It's just when your'e 57 years old, you want to see them win one more time. My sons try to keep me level headed, and I know there are more important things in the world than baseball. At least I think the Twins are the bigger threat now, and nothing would please me more, (other than the Tigers winning) than shutting up Ken Harrelson's obnoxious mouth. Hope Kenny has some magic tomorrow.

It's all well and good to devise different lineups and other things that would "fix" the Tigers. That's what discussion boards are for. What's happening at this point in the season, however, are little things. As Dan pointed out, tonight Verlander had the guy struck out on a pitch that had been a strike all night. Didn't get the call, boom, lose the game. During Thursday's blowout, Perez is too slow turning a doubleplay, safe at first, inning extended, Joe Crede, boom, 2-0 turns into 5-0, game over. The opposition is making diving catches now that bounced off their gloves earlier this year. Nothing a little five game winning streak wouldn't fix.

What the Tigers need to do, at this point, is just scratch out anywhere between 16 and 20 wins, maybe not even that many. Doesn't have to be pretty, just get the wins. We'll worry about October on October 1st and not before.

BTW, just finished my Tiger Tour. A 1000-mile round trip to see three pretty poor losses. Never saw Zumaya or Rodney or Jones. Other than the games, Detroit and Cleveland didn't have much interesting to offer, so it was all a big disappointment.

Speaking of disappointment, Comerica has come in dead last in judging the ballparks I've visited the past four years. This is strictly from a fan's perspective. I can go into that more in another post if anyone is interested.

Going back to Jason's original post, I think Maroth could give the team a huge shot in the arm when it's most needed. Couple that with a possible return by Polanco and things could get good again.

David, you're right, don't listen to your sons, there is nothing more important than a Tiger pennant race. I'm 33 and I was afaid I would never live to see the Tigers win it all again but we at least have a chance.

And I also agree that the bats have been the problem all year. You can't always have perfect pitching even from a staff as good as ours. I'm not even sure that Verlander pitched so badly tonight as the Indians just hit well.. After the Hafner strikeout in the fifth the next hitter (name? - the young first baseman hit a pretty good pitch down the line. He didn't have his best stuff but if he gets him there maybe he cruises.

Sometimes you have to win 9-7 or 8-6 but the Tigers have been losing 5-3 and 6-4. If the other team gets 4 runs I get very worried and unfortunately with good reason. I like Dans term "polite baseball" they get a couple of early runs and let the starter off the ropes. And the opposing bullpen? Who knew the Rangers and Indians had such great arms out of the pen? Well they didn't until they played us.

There was a lot of awful stuff tonight like Ordonez(1HR 9RBI in August)(see yesterdays discussion) doing his usual thing(he did get the one hit but unless he starts to see a lot more hanging brealing stuff at the letters he is not going to break out of his "slump") and Rodriguez(1HR 7RBI in August) validating all my fears about him facing a sinkerball pitcher,(worried about him against Wang here in the Bronx next week) proved to be dangerous only to the worms who live around home plate(that 7th inning groundout really killed us) and poor Granderson, who I love, poor Granderson, on a night when everybody hit the ball and even Rosie Perez (Perez!) got two hits (two!) he got nothing and even stranded a couple of runners.

While Inges'last at-bat was a microcosm of his problems this year he did have 3 wonderful turns at the plate and his third time up (when he grounded out up the middle -- bad timing, I blame it on Perez) was the best hes looked in a long time: laying off breaking balls away from the zone, fouling pitches off, going up there with a plan and some real fire. If that kid could play to his potential he could carry this club for a while.

D-Train - his last at-bat was vintage Dimitri swinging early in the count with no plan and grounding to second(Casey has the exact same bad swing sometimes). But his first three times up were terrific, taking piches, driving the ball to left and he even drew a walk!

Monroe homered AND singled to right AND WALKED -- he looked great at the plate

THe good news -- if you believe in this dubious concept -- is the entire Tigers time is "due" to get hot. Really hot.

I'm so glad we didn't raid the farm system to get Soriano...

Leyland, please unleash Marcus Thames

Free Omar Infante

Go Tigers

Up there where I said Joe Crede, I meant to say Juan Uribe. It actually wasn't Crede this time.

I would be interested in hearing your impressions of Comerica, I moved to New York after the last season of Tiger Stadium and I was so angry they wanted a new stadium. Build a ballclub not a ballpark I thought. When I saw it on TV I was mystified by the huge power alleys and fences for a team with no team speed. Tiger Stadium was so intimate and beautiful and was of course so home run friendly (to everywhere but 440 dead center of course) and that intimacy and power was an essential part of the rich Tiger tradition. How could Tigers management be so absolutely deaf to all that detroiy history. It seemed like the kind of ballpark that people who could fire Ernie Harwell would like.

With all the great crowds this year my anger has been softening a little bit -- and after all, I've never even been there.

I couldn't believe all the idiotic talk about the obstructed view seats at Tiger Stadium and those nasty pillars -- I've sat in them they are not that bad. But if you build without them you are going to put the fan further from the field. That combined with the incredibly expansive foul ground (I know pitchers like it but to me it is a little extreme) would presumably keep the spectator far from the action. It looks on TV like the worst of both worlds. Is this true?

How is the food?

How are the stores and bars in the neighborhood?

Okay, my impression of Comerica, and please bear in mind that these views come from an old time Tiger fan who grew up watching all his baseball at Tiger Stadium:

Pros: The food is really really good. The park employees couldn't be better, they rank up there with anybody's. I personally like the standing room idea they have in the outfield.

Cons: the problems begin to arise when you just want to watch a baseball game. The sightlines are bad. The upper deck is not at enough of an angle to allow seeing over the head in front of you. There is no protection up there and the sun can be brutal. And, it's a long way from the field. Downstairs may be better if you were to get a prime location, but those aren't available to most people. We were in section 140, which is in the "Tigers Den" area. This is a nice idea with small two seat boxes and a kind of coffee table between the two padded chairs to hold your food and beverages. Unfortunately, the table puts you too far away from your partner to have any conversation at all, and this is because of the booming PA speakers that are just above your head. There is rarely a moment when there isn't some excited announcement being made, or rock music (which I do like) being blared, even between pitches sometimes. If felt like an NBA game. My wife told me after the game that she hadn't heard a word I'd said, and I had a sore throat from my hopeless efforts. Younger "fans" who thought the entire idea was to scream all night (I expected to hear someone shout out "Free Bird!!!") didn't help. In addition, we were on the aisle, and this aisle ran between us and our view of the infield. Thousands of people have to use that aisle and our view was blocked most of the night. I'm not kidding, I saw very little baseball from there. The old Tiger Stadium pillars were better because at least they didn't move. Another reason for the constant flow of human traffic is that there is very little, if any, vendor sales in the seats. All the food concessions are right there and numerous, so I guess they don't feel it necessary.

That's my take on it, anyway. I had section 140 on Wednesday and upstairs in 322 on Thursday. I'm comparing to Tiger Stadium, Fenway Park, the old Vet in Philadelphia, Camden Yards, PNC Park, and Jacobs Field, all of which I score higher than Comerica. And I hate to have to say that, just hate to.

Hey Rich. Sorry to hear your road trip didn't have such good results for you. Also I am disappointed to hear about your impressions of Comerica. I had heard it was a beautiful park and I was hoping to make a trip there myself.
Not keen on the NBA style of entertainment and it's too bad you can't communicate with the person next to you! How could I critique the manager?

I also think they could reconsider doing something with the fences. I think 402' to the power alley in left is ridiculous. Looking at the schematic at least right field is somewhat normal. Tigers should be loading up on left hand hitting power hitters though.

I think traditionally fans want to see the 3 run HR--and to design a pitcher's park may be counterproductive in the long run. Teams can (and do) actually build themselves around the ballpark and to be constrained to developing arms in the minors rather than power hitters will diminish the excitiement level.

I hope you had a chance to have a Coney Island hot dog while you were in town!

Cheers.

Comerica IS a beautiful park. I don't want anyone to get the wrong impression. This is just one man's viewpoint. When I attend a ballgame, I like to zero in and really watch, but I realize it's not that way for many folks. You'll notice I didn't mention the kiddie rides or the lounge, all of which can make for a great experience, depending on who you are. As far as the noise level goes, I didn't have that problem when I was there in 2003. :-)

You're right about the fences. Baseball these days is mostly pitching and home runs. We got a good example of that today. Earl Weaver was right.