Sunday’s lineups: Tigers at Blue Jays


The good news for Anibal Sanchez is that Edwin Encarnacion is out today, serving a one-game suspension he received for bumping umpire Vic Carapazza last weekend while arguing a called third strike. Russell Martin is also getting a day off from the Jays lineup.

On the Detroit side, Mike Aviles gets the start in right field against R.A. Dickey. He’s 3-for-6 off the knuckleballer.

tigerhitterlogoTIGERS (career numbers off Dickey)

  1. Ian Kinsler, 2B (8-for-21, 3 HR, 2 walks, K)
  2. Cameron Maybin, CF (4-for-19, 7 K’s)
  3. Miguel Cabrera, 1B (8-for-30, double, 2 HR, 2 walks, 4 K’s)
  4. Victor Martinez, DH (5-for-19, double, 3 walks, 3 K’s)
  5. Nick Castellanos, 3B (4-f0r-13, double, HR, 2 walks, 2 K’s)
  6. Justin Upton, LF (2-for-14, double, HR, 3 K’s)
  7. Mike Aviles, RF (3-for-6, walk, K)
  8. James McCann, C (2-for-8, triple, K)
  9. Jose Iglesias, SS (3-for-6, double, walk, K)

P: Anibal Sanchez

jayslogoBLUE JAYS (career numbers vs. Sanchez)

  1. Ezequiel Carrera, RF (4-for-13, 2 K’s)
  2. Josh Donaldson, DH (6-for-23, 2 walks, 4 K’s)
  3. Michael Saunders, LF (2-for-3, double, triple)
  4. Troy Tulowitzki, SS (2-for-10, double, HR, K)
  5. Kevin Pillar, CF (0-for-4, K)
  6. Devon Travis, 2B (1-for-3, K)
  7. Justin Smoak, 1B (0-for-12, walk, 4 K’s)
  8. Darwin Barney, 3B (0-for-6, 2 K’s)
  9. Josh Thole, C (2-for-10, double, walk, 3 K’s)

P: R.A. Dickey

55 Comments

Thole> Miguel Cabrera

39 pitches through 4 innings for Dickey….I can’t say on here what I’m thinking about that!

Mailing it in. Is it possible I have drawn the two worst dogs of a game to see live in the same season. 13 innings for me and counting with a run for me.
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Josh feaking Thole? Seriously?
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— Bob

And now he walked him with 2 outs only to give up a 3 run homer

Rondon, with a lack of effort and a “go home” order ending last year’s season, Jones with a PED suspension resulting in a suspension dating from last season, Then a blown defensive play followed by a failure to run out a ball yesterday, leading to being pulled from the game. Gose with a “go home” order following an in-game dispute yesterday with Legendary Loyd. Sounds like lots of immaturity with possible entitlement issues to me.

Pelfrey is looking better and better compared to our HR Specialist.

So apparently everyone not named Maybin has checked out!

Well, do they wrap it up for today or can they manage to at least put a few runs on the board? Dickey must be throwing butterflies up there.

Regardless they’ll make an excuse other than just plain pathetic

Miggy……stranded more
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THOLE > miggy

(GROAN) Miggy killed the rally again. On the first pitch when it appears Dickey may be losing his touch. You would think if Aviles and Kinsler could triple off the fluttering moth, Miggy could at least manage a single.

Miggy does not look like the player he once was . I am a bit shocked he is headed to San Diego .

Another nice defensive play by Nick. He has really developed many facets of his game right before our eyes, at the MLB level.

These guys are emotionally incompetent right now. Sanchez’ future is in serious jeopardy as it is doubtful he will ever get enough back. He can’t execute when he needs though some blame to McCann for not insisting on different pitches to BOTH Thole and Donaldson. I told my wife that Donaldson would put one out. He was digging and and ready to fly.
I expect we will see division rivals pick up starters and bullpen pieces and I expect we will join the party too late to get anything worthwhile.
We are going to start to hear chatter about rebuilding and specifically what Miguel Cabrera might fetch.
Pretty bad when even Victor gives up.

How is Moya so horrible in the estimation of some? He has only 86 MLB ABs this season, but has produced 5 HRs, 11 RBIs and a .267 BA with a .839 OPS. By comparison, in 327 ABs Upton has 9 HRs with 38 RBIs. a .232 BA and a .666 OPS… And Aviles has 114 ABs. He has produced 1 HR with 6 RBIs, a .211 BA and a .534 OPS. As far as any of these guys are concerned, none will ever likely win a GG. Although Aviles might hurt someone as demonstrated by his near collision with Maybin in yesterday’s game.

This team has drained me, I can only imagine how they feel. Hopefully the AS break will do us all some good.
Not sure Mr. I would be open to trading Miggy, he is very loyal to certain players, especially a Triple Crown winner who has packed the park. Time will tell.

Thank God Lowe is coming in he’ll save the dayear?
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Doesn’t matter though Tigers are sitting on their thumbs today anyway.
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Laid another egg
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My hope is the superstars on this team will get their heads out of their behinds. Maybin has been on plenty for #3, #4. It’s really disheartening when you expect Miggy and V-mart fail when they used to more often than not drive runs in. I’m more shocked when they do succeed …cause they are very easy outs these days
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They mailed it in today đź“­

Yep it looked like they just showed up . If Sanchez is given another start look for the same results . The pitching staff needs a complete evaluation . Unless things change the Upton deal will haunt the club for years . Big thumbs up to Maybin .

The Van comes to get me in the morning. My whole predoction yesterday was based on pure sarcasm. Anabal needs to check in more than I do. A shell of what he has been. We bowed down today to R A, and believe me, he can be tough. We were swinging just to get out of town. Miggy, I suppose is always a threat, but this year’s performance for him with RISP, must be one of his absolute worst. Would keep him through his contract, hoping that the switch to DH might see him finish strong like Edgar Martinez and Ortiz. Wish Victor would retire after this year; love his grit, his professionalism, and his team leadership. But his total lack of speed, especially batting behind Miggy, has become a real liability. Would simply put Anabal in the pen for the rest of the season; no more starts; just throw out of the pen. Maybe he can make it back, if he’s not moved, and I’d doubt any serious bites for him. And such a class act again. It’s why I love this team so much. They are loaded with class act guys, but it seems like the jerks win games. Ryan is okay, but cannot succeed against strong righty lineups. So finally, they can go home and try to regroup; If I were Miggy, I wouldn’t go to the AS game. He’s not sporting Mioggy stats; would have named Fullmer or Ian:
!. Cam gives another solid effort.
2. Molliken saves the day for the Pen.
3. Jays didn’t score 10.
Kudos to Aviles, Cam, Molliken, and Upton who is hitting the ball much harder. Oh, Julio, where are you and Jordon Zimmerman?

Listened to the game on the radio during my lunch hour and heard Dan & Jim talk about Gose. Evidently, they had words in the dugout and Lloyd told him to go to the clubhouse. Gose cleaned out his locker and left.

There were some comments about the incident on both yesterday’s and today’s blog. For details, if you are interested, see Mr. Beck’s article about Moya’s D under ” Quick Hits.”.

I was working Friday, yesterday and today, Darline. All day. My break was on my lunch hour listening to the game in my car on the radio. I already knew Gose was missing from the game per my comment in yesterday’s blog in my comment to ET. Hadn’t heard the full explanation until Dan mentioned it today.

Kathy,…Saw your remark. Details including type of argument, Gose’s absence from Sunday’s game, Chadd’s comment and the Tigers intended immediate response to the situation are revealed by Mr. Beck. I’m glad to hear you are still employed unlike so many others. I’m also glad for my attempt to be of service to you. Thank you for the opportunity.

Can’t logically expect things to improve the 2nd half.
The “mix” doesn’t “jell”. While it is good to have a blend of veterans, younger guys and raw talent we have a team here that is so disparate they tend to be dysfunctional.
Miggy was and likely still is a great ballplayer. But realistically his real value may be transactional rather than on the field. So many years we have heard the battle cry of Illitch getting older. Well the reality is we are ALL getting older. For some of us in our silver/golden years there may only be one more philosophical change left for us to experience something like 1968 or 1984 again.
I don’t like this team as it presents itself any longer. Greg is right on about team speed. The Detroit Tigers could aptly be renamed the Detroit Dinosaurs. The mentality has to change.

Our 25 man roster:
Matt Boyd Maybe
32 Michael Fulmer Thank You DD
61 Shane Greene Once he sheds the hoodie he will be good
21 Mark Lowe Oh my AA, what were you thinking?
50 Dustin Molleken The guys is Canadian–I love him
37 Mike Pelfrey Oh my AA, what were you thinking?
57 Francisco Rodriguez What’s left to save?
43 Bruce Rondon Big arm; big head
56 Kyle Ryan Big heart; little arm
19 Anibal Sanchez yesterday
35 Justin Verlander true competitor capable of surprise
30 Alex Wilson Alex Average (at best)
38 Justin Wilson Justan other hope and dream
Catchers
# Name B/T Ht Wt DOB
34 James McCann a future all star
39 Jarrod Saltalamacchia good team-mate
Infield
# Name B/T Ht Wt DOB
14 Mike Aviles a cog to the construction of a weak bench
24 Miguel Cabrera Smiling and joking around won’t keep you the best
9 Nick Castellanos thank goodness for a good draft pick and contract
1 Jose Iglesias better with age
3 Ian Kinsler downturn inevitable. Did it start this month?
17 Andrew Romine This guy knows how to play and his role
Outfield
# Name B/T Ht Wt DOB
4 Cameron Maybin great guy with no arm and no power
33 Steven Moya raw power no upward mobility
8 Justin Upton Oh my AA, what were you thinking?
Designated Hitters
# Name B/T Ht Wt DOB
41 Victor Martinez All things must pass
7 Brad Ausmus Must be smoking something and looking at mirrors
88 Matt Martin Will be replaced as base running coach by Victor Martinez
52 Rich Dubee Only keeps his job because Jeff Jones would never beat the 30 second visit to the mound rule

Wagner. Anthony Gose was on @MudHens lineup card Sunday, but he wasn’t at 5/3 Field (w/ photo) … http://www.bcsn.tv/news_article/show/668310?referrer_id=986280 … #Tigers

“Anytime a player reacts that way to the manager, it’s concerning,” Ausmus said. “It’s certainly not anything that can’t be dealt with or gotten past.”

Sending him home it is the appropriate measure. He quit and that is worse than tossing the ball at 95MPH

My first move would be to traded for Tyler Flower . A good catcher would shave at least half run of the ERA of the team.
Zimmermann K/9 down, Pelfrey´s zone 7% littler , Lowe was trending down but . ..that many pitchers don’t go down that fast .
The worst mistake was to keep Saltalamacchia over Wilson

and Wilson is not great just less bad

The rotation (and the bullpen actually) is a shambles. What the he!! is Shane Greene doing relieving when you have guys like Anibal, Boyd and Pelfrey picking up the back end? Greene is a starter. He is too young to consign to mopping up games (which is likely with the aforementioned starters). There is nothing nearly ready to win a rotation spot in the farm system.
Get him back in the rotation.
As to the bullpen, well I have some ideas on how to attempt to fix that.

The Tigers are eyeballing Hill for a rotation spot. I was on a cruise and made port in San Francisco on opening night for the A’s. So, I went to the game with the idea of seeing Gray pitch against Sale. Gray fell ill, leaving the start to Hill, who proved completely underwhelming. However, I understand because of his subsequent success he is in pretty high demand for a deadline rental deal. That interest will probably be tempered by Hill’s injury history. In fact, he just recently got off the DL.

Can you see Hill changing the fortunes of this team enough to consider this? Am I wrong or is Hill about equivalent to Pelfrey? Maybe, we can flip Pelfrey for a prospect?

Wonder if we can flip Vmart for anything and/or if he would want to chase a WS? I don’t think he will get it in Detroit.

Keep Wilson instead of Salty? Which Wilson? I believe the other possible catcher was Holaday. At this point we should compare Salty with Alex Avila. I don’t know how to compare the defensive side but I believe Salty is way ahead of AA offensively.

Looks to me like it will be difficult to make any meaningful transactions this season. It would help if a) we got those injured players back and b) everybody started playing like the backs of their baseball cards say they can play.
Regarding the one-game WC play-in, you can’t stop competing just because the MLB playoff system is ridiculous. If the division is out of reach, teams are pretty much forced to try for the booby prize.

Last season, the press “ordered” the Tigers to sell. DD was praised by the press because he was smart and got good prospects and gave the fans a subpar team and a last place. The owner, who knows better,fired him . (Of course, he landed another job and MLB ignored the rules about minorities because it is Boston …but that is another story)
The thing is since the TV money us guaranteed , they can have an empty park for years( TB and Pirates) and make money , spend close to nothing and make money ( A´s and Marlins) so no pressure over the GM to keep a competitive team.
A good deal of tickets are corporative and they dont care about the team W-L , it is like the cheap widgets they used to give away. You have die-hard fans that follow a team losing 119 and remain fans. And you have the delusional fans that want to trade every established player for ” young prospects ” who will the next big thing or want home grown players paid minimum wage and win a WS that will go to watch the MudHens of Detroit because they will be competitive in 2017 ( of course, thy dont know the record of the MudHens). So there will be fans in the seats .1,368,245 (13th of 14) went to watch the train wreck in 2003.
So you can rebuild forever and being praised in the process. WC or no WC
What is really annoying are the fans saying thank to DD for Fulmer and Norris. Last place. 200 MM . No farm. No tittles. I guess the people on the boats also said thank to the captain of the Titanic

DD deserved to get fired for the reasons you mentioned above. 200MM, no farm, no titles. Without those deals, however we’d be even a worse spot now.
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We spent 10 years trying to win a title by signing high priced veteran free agents, and trading young talent for veteran stars at the trade deadline. It kept us competitive, and as fans we had a lot of enjoyable seasons. Pretty amazing when you think about it, a lot of other fan bases would trade us in a heartbeat.
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You don’t have to rebuild forever, but I believe your minor’s teams need to be winners if you are going to have long-term success at the majors. The last I checked, and I know you follow this more closely. All our farm teams had losing records.
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I fully expect we can play 500-600 ball remain semi-competitive for the next 3-4 years with our core of veterans and a few hits on free agents. While rebuilding our farm teams and system. I think it was identified last winter, that the farm teams and scouting have a lot of catching up to do and is a work in progress. Maybe, we catch fire at the right times and win a title or 2 the next few years. Or maybe not, and you flip a piece or 2 here and there for some promising prospects and speed up the “rebuild”.

Salatalamacchia is just above Avila in framing and has been among the worst defensive catcher for years. His 40 % SO is not good either.
Wilson who replaced the injured McCann

I am one fan who is thankful for DD’s trades at the deadline last season. The Tigers were among the worst teams in baseball after the first month. DD dealt 3 unsignable soon-to-be FAs and acquired Fulmer, Norris, Boyd, Jones Labourt and Cessa in return. Cessa was later traded for Justin Wilson. So, I totally agree with those baseball experts and members of the press who have sided with and praised DD for his trade acumen.

Verlander, Fulmer, Zimmerman, Pelfry, Greene(needs to start), Norris, and Boyd. Overall at least a serviceable group. Sorry Anibal. If he can ever pitch effectively again it will be a bonus. Dan, you are prematurely predicting Kinsler’s downturn. Maybin doesn’t need power. He gets on plenty often for 3-6. There are a plethora of slow footed mashers on the team. I like Molleken too. A strike thrower. Agree with the rest of your list assessment. The pen is disappointing and should have been better. Or maybe they were just overrated from the beginning. Same old same old. But Francisco has been a bright spot. Afraid teams are going to pitch around/ walk Victor because it takes 3 hits to score him. Why not?……Frustrating. With JD back, and with Nick and Justin following him this might be less of an issue. Tigers may have finally solved Cleveland. Toronto has a very good team. But Tiger hitters went silent. Could have taken two there. The Gose/Travis trade not looking real good at this point. It never did. Will hold out a little hope for the second half. Might as well. It’s summer.

Was going to say that 3 over .500 and 6.5 back at the ASG break with the key injuries isn’t all that bad. Did they over perform or under perform?

Kinsler
224/ .296/.347 /.643 last 28
316/ .350 /.421/.771 last 7 Babip 429
Writers at Fangraphs and Baseball Prospectus predicted it . For them neither Castellanos nor Kinlser can sustain the good numbers.
Kinsler: K/9 17.9 % career high, up from 11.9. 6.6 % BB . Third career lowest . He traded contact for power so expect him to be like he was with Texas. One problem with that: 5 HR at home , 11 on the road. CiPa plays neutral but it is not Texas
Castellanos high K% and low BB%. Recipe for regression
160 38 119 46 15 24
Speed? Rajai Davis 119 Total bases and 46 runs scored
Victor :160 TB .That is 41 one more bases, and 38 Runs scored. 8 runs is the difference between the hare and the turtle
Ah, yes: 15 2B for Rajai ( plus 2 3B) and 14 for Victor. That is 1 2B less for Victor and Rajai is playing at a 2B friendly park

Ah… Finally, a little support for my position on Aviles. Mensching: “It is still unclear what Aviles brings to the team or why he was signed in he first place.”

More support… This time for my position on Upton. Tony Paul ran down the candidates for the “Biggest Bust” award in the AL. His pick was…UPTON.

Well, if you want to call it “support for your position” then a whole big bunch of people have had their position supported by these two players. 🙂 In fact, some of the smartest baseball people I know, the guys I go to when I can’t figure it out myself, don’t understand why Aviles is here.
Before the season started, there was a belief “out there” that the Central would be a dogfight with the winner coming in at about 86 wins. If that turns out to be the case, the Tigers are in the race. If one team, say Cleveland, plays to a 90-win clip then the Tigers are not in the race. And again, I don’t see where this year’s trade deadline will make any difference in Detroit. Best to just try to enjoy the remainder of the season. Some of these guys are still fun to watch.

Yeah… I will call it corrobative support. I have posted these positions numerous times and. until of late, about the only folks who have replied have done so in opposition or have made excuses for the players There has been nary a concurring comment. And I have been harping for a long time. I don’t recall anyone on this blog addressing those or some other issues such as the Pelfrey signing from my perspective before did so. So, I kinda do feel a vindication of sorts when I see comments like that in the press. I don’t feel like I’m so estranged from reasonable takes on baseball matters.

Sanchez is another case in point. I was on him pretty hard even last season for his HRs and BBs and slow delivery, which compounded his baserunner situation. It was then that I suggested he should be used to pitch at the A-S HR Derby and I have carried that perspective over to this year for obvious reasons Now, it sounds as if most folks, both fans and writers, are on the same page.Before, it was replies and comments with excuses about how bad other pitchers were performing and peripheral statistics about what a fine job Sanchez was really doing in the metric world.

A theory of sorts as to these signings. Could be more about get more characters guys in the clubhouse as opposed to getting guys with maybe a bit more talent. Purely, speculative, but you’ve heard over and over that Aviles is a great guy, so is Big Mike. It might be the idea is to bring in these guys that can help form the younger guys instead of a few guys that might have a few more stats.
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If you think of Cabby with his drinking episodes (years ago and resolved but..), the year Victor was gone it seemed like there was no leadership at all. The Fielder/Garcia affair. The Mcann/Igleasias brawl. And probably a host of other things that I forgot or didn’t get aired. It could very well be, that the brass figured character would carry better.
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Upton just seems like bad luck. And, I am not giving up on him turning it around. He wouldn’t be the only player in history have a down year switching from the NL to AL.

I agree with you about Upton probably having a down year and likely turning it around at some point. The problem with keeping him instead of trading him now for a decent starter is the Tigers have probably only a limited window of opportunity and need production, most likely on the ERA end, to overcome a negative team run differential to go from just being competitive to being a contender. My gosh, Upton is only now entering his prime and has already had a few near monster seasons. My greatest fear is that if the Tigers do as I suggest and our new pitcher turns into Washburn while Upton does what Yoenis did last year for the Mets.

Playing fantasy baseball for over 20 years. I have seen players with career years and “what the” years. Just like my golf game, I want to enjoy a sport. The manager should make fun, but want to win. Thank you for all the opinions and stats. Go Tigers

Edwards Fangraphs:
“Almost any move the Tigers make to get better this season and next season can be justified by their difficult road ahead…, but the name that might make the most sense is a guy whose contract runs right through the end of the Tigers competitive window at a position where the Tigers could receive the biggest upgrade over in-house options: Jonathan Lucroy” .
BYB mentioned him too
Catcher. The biggest need for the Tigers

The pitcher mentioned above is Lucas Harrell. He had a low K % and high BB% so he was released by the Tigers. Now with the Braves, he has the same K% but halved his BB% .After 13 IP, he is making news for shouting the Cubs down

NLTBDNS and we have home-field advantage

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