Thursday’s lineups: Tigers at Orioles

When news of Steven Moya’s call-up emerged this morning, the assumption was that it set up a day off for Justin Upton. The fact that Ubaldo Jimenez has been struggling against left-handed hitters this season (22-for-62, well above his .239 career average), and the prospect of putting Moya’s bat to the plate at homer-friendly Camden Yards made him too good to sit, and manager Brad Ausmus said Wednesday that he had discussed with coaches the idea of sitting Upton for a night.

Instead, the Tigers are trying something different. Moya is indeed in left field, but Upton is in center, his first start there since he was a prospect at Double-A Mobile in 2007. The small dimensions of Camden Yards give him less ground to cover, but it’ll be interesting nonetheless.

Also worth noting: With the Tigers lineup back at full strength, Nick Castellanos is batting fifth tonight rather than sixth, perhaps a side benefit of his success batting cleanup in Washington. Upton moves down to sixth.

The Orioles lineup, meanwhile, is scorching, no matter what the order. The O’s have back-to-back homers in each of their last three games. If they can do it against Pelfrey (or the bullpen), they’d tie the 1964 Twins for the record with four straight. Mark Trumbo is 6-for-15 with three homers in his last three games, and 5-for-10 against Pelfrey. Manny Machado is 20-for-48 with 11 extra-base hits in his last 12 games. Adam Jones has broken out of his early-season slump with an 8-for-19 stretch over his last four games.

Gameday | TV: Fox Sports Detroit, MLB.TV | Radio: 97.1 FM, MLB Gameday Audio

tigerhitterlogoTIGERS (career numbers off Jimenez)

  1. Ian Kinsler, 2B (6-for-22, 3 doubles, 4 walks, 4 K’s)
  2. J.D. Martinez, RF (2-for-9, 2 HR, walk, 3 K’s)
  3. Miguel Cabrera, 1B (15-for-43, 4 doubles, HR, 9 walks, 8 K’s)
  4. Victor Martinez, DH (9-for-29, double, 4 HR, walk, 5 K’s)
  5. Nick Castellanos, 3B (0-for-6, K)
  6. Justin Upton, CF (7-for-25, 2 doubles, triple, 2 HR, 3 walks, 7 K’s)
  7.  Steven Moya, LF
  8. Jarrod Saltalamacchia, C (1-for-6, 3 K’s)
  9. Jose Iglesias, SS (3-for-4, triple, HR)

P: Mike Pelfrey

oriolesoldlogoORIOLES (career numbers vs. Pelfrey)

  1. Joey Rickard, LF
  2. Manny Machado, SS (2-for-6)
  3. Adam Jones, CF (6-for-12)
  4. Chris Davis, 1B (2-for-6, 2 doubles, 3 K’s)
  5. Mark Trumbo, RF (5-for-10, HR, walk, 2 K’s)
  6. Pedro Alvarez, DH (1-for-10, double, 2 walks, 4 K’s)
  7. Jonathan Schoop, 2B (2-for-3)
  8. Ryan Flaherty, 3B (1-for-2)
  9. Caleb Joseph, C (0-for-2)

P: Ubaldo Jimenez


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This game will be interesting. I’ll be interested to see how Upton does in center and I’ve wanted to see Moya in majors for a while. Should be a good game. I wish we would switch up the order a little bit though. It still looks like Ausmus is just picking names out of a hat. He needs to have a different draw to see if it does any good.

Altuve all of 5’5″ has 5 more homers than Miguel Cabrera????? As much as I love Miggy he’s got to start earning his salary

Rich, I didn’t understand your question about Upton as rhetorical because you said you didn’t think the issue was simple and asked how Upton could just sit on the bench with his BA and contract and still bring us back a dependable starter. I responded in detail since nearly 30 minutes before I commented that I thought the issue was simple and that Upton should sit until Moya fails, if he even does. And, I noted that if Moya produces, Upton could then be marketed for a dependable starter. I guess very few people read me, as you once said in a comment about yourself. That is of course unless I say something which doesn’t fit for my occasional reader.

As far as playing Upton in CF, I find that unexpected for the many reasons I have posted before. I also find it about as inexplicable as playing Upton over Nick last night..

Upton will not be a good CFer but it sure does add more power (potentially) to the lineup.
Hopefully Pelfrey gets lots of ground balls tonight!
Brad, give Moya a chance and give him some reps

Why can’t Upton be a good CFer? He is a great athlete. These guys are proven hitters and the runs will come. We need the starters lead and especially the bull pen to perform. You want a shake up? Bat Ian third and Miggy fourth, Iggy lead off and J up 9th. Is that what you want?

He is becoming JD Raburn. Wont say present until middle june

His WAR is lower than Upton. Worst defensive player of the team

That’s what I mean when I say I don’t like Victor’s skillset next to Miggy. It should be 2-0 but he’s too slow and we need 3 hits to get 1 run and that’s not something we can count on. A Victor single or walk is worthless unless 2 more behind him get hits and if they’re both singles we need a 3rd.

I respectfully have to disagree – VMart has the 2nd most RBI’s on the team behind Casty (how would have thunk that?). And as slow as he is, he has the highest number of doubles on the team.

A good job framing for Saltalamacchia. He is stealing strikes

JD was a Gold Glove finalist in 2015. He was a leader in many defensive categories.

Miguel did the right thing , had he stopped at 2B, Kinsler was DOA

BP time

Take him out

Still can’t figure out why Pelfry is the focus of this pitching staff he’s hardly been the worst on the team amount the starters….but every one is gunning for his head. I’m not saying that I think he’s fantastic but he’s hardly the worst.

5 of 6 IR scored

Make it 6 of 8

Iglesias should of made that play.

Absolutely horrible with runners in scoring position is that 9 now? Just aweful.

11 left on base. Really bad

Thank god we stranded all those runners because lord knows our pen needs all the help they can get.

If it’s not one thing it’s another. Get good starting pitching 5 runs pen can’t hold it while stranding 11 runners (so far) I can hardly take it.

I Don’t get it.
Just don’t get it.
Why would you throw an 0-2 fastball to a guy you just obliterated with a wipeout slider?
I also don’t get Ausmus starting the 7th with Alex when Verhagen can throw multiple innings.

I don’t get it either. Well, there you go.

Overpaid underachieving idiots from top to bottom

This team from top to bottom is crap. Completely disgusted

Unbelievable. Our bullpen is cursed and every LHP we try in that pen seems to be inefective against LHB.

Pathetic beyond words.

Justin Wilson had worse numbers vs LHB in 2015. They knew it

A -5 DRS is earned in plays like the 3B

The Wilson Brothers have looked very bad lately. Anyone else here more than a bit surprised that Verhagen pitched only 1/3 of an inning on a night where Ausmus had said something about looking to get inning out of his starter to help save his bullpen?
Maybe this is an oversimplification but it seems to me that all our pitchers are getting hurt more on their fastballs than their secondary pitches.

I guarantee every one of you die hard fans just like me could see this coming. Just builds in slow motion and collapses horribly. Why do we do this to ourselves? Rod just said it, they truly expect bad things to happen. Cursed.

Clutch popup there by “the big fella”

I know I will take some guff for this but the guy that is really affecting the Tigers lately is Miggy. There is no power to speak of. He is not hitting in clutch situations.In my mind he made a mistake on the play where he got caught off. That is a play that a runner can help another runner score but Kinsler was not needing the diversion. Miggy got caught with his pants down.
And worse, when he was really needed hepopped it up and walked away to the dugout on a ball that actually could have come down in fair territory.
Miggy is off his game and I would bet you if he was asked he would say the same.

No argument from me last year was hurt I guess but this crap no power no clutch hitting has been going on for a very very long time. Thought he was finally getting himself out of in Minnesota only to sputter again. Hitting singles but ZERO power. Nearly everything he hits is on the ground and sometimes it makes it through the infield and more often it doesn’t. I love him but am very disappointed with his performance for well over a year nown.

No guff here – I love, love, love Miggy, but he is not doing the job he is paid to do. I was mad about that pop up too – that was not even half assed him walking away from a potential in play ball. I am sure he is frustrated and he should be, we expect more out of him.

Nothing like sitting the hottest hitter in baseball only for him to have a ofer today. More brilliant management

Victor co-leads the AL in Avg.

Most weeks have a day -off. Does that cool-off hitters? Not real hitter

This is a demoralized team right now. There are no guarantees in the bullpen or in the rotation. The lineup is inconsistent and poor play is always an inning away.

Dan, I think the team has a bunch of issues. Miggy for sure is not playing to his standards. But you can say that about 5-6 guys on a daily basis. I go back to the adage, you can’t replace the whole team. So why not try replacing the manager.

Miguel did what The Book orders to do.

No argument from me last year was hurt I guess but this crap no power no clutch hitting has been going on for a very very long time. Thought he was finally getting himself out of in Minnesota only to sputter again. Hitting singles but ZERO power. Nearly everything he hits is on the ground and sometimes it makes it through the infield and more often it doesn’t. I love him but am very disappointed with his performance for well over a year nown.

I have no idea what you are trying to say?


when he forced the throw to avoid the out at home

Our bullpen is virtually just a pitching machine. In fact its probably harder to hit off the pitching machine.

I agree. He has been given teams with talent and experience. The owner has spent money to fill needs. Yet the team on the field is slow, and prone to bad baseball. Role players are not made to fulfull their role. i.e. Gose does not bunt to get on. He does not have a stolen base. How does that make ANY sense at all?

V-Mart cannot be stopped. Now 11 for last 13. RBI single. Cabrera hung himself off second to ensure Kinsler scored
I guess he is biased too
BTW: Miguel still has the 4th WAR in this team.
Only 6 has a ppositive WAR: Castellanos, Kinsler, Victor, Miguel , Saltalamacchia and Iglesias
McCann and Gose should be driving by I -54

Why the hell is Aviles pinch hitting for Moya? What possible sense did that make to just give up an out when you had a guy who went 2 for 4 due up? Does Ausmus even know what the fuck he’s doing at this point?

This is still a bad team. I respect your opinion of Miggy who is one of the smartest players in the game but I sure didn’t see it the way you do.
And I truly do not believe he is playing very good baseball right now.

Aviles is the RHB vs the LHP.

This team is saddled by the contracts ordered by the owner and the inability to keep a plan. It goes back to the Fielder´s contract. Victor could have signed for lees, they needed and need him. If they had the money for Upton, the had the money for Samartzjia or Wang but the owner (or his family) goes back and forward.
Also by the questionable trades like Travis for Gose, Suarez for Simón. And all those trades like Baker or Huff that depleted the farm and forced to give up Smyly who will have a better career than any of the prospects DD got during the retooling.
It seems that the day of reckoning came earlier than expected

Miguel is on pace for 21 HR and 80 RBI and he is playing below his ability

Hey Harper, I mean Parsons. Yeah. Mr.138 Avila was obviously not your choice to PH for a guy who was 2-4 and has had a power year in MiLB. But, Aviles was HOT!.He has had only had 8 SOs in his last 17 ABs with no XBHs and was hitting .176. . Aviles has been pounding like another Upton. What the hell is wrong with you?

I don’t get your Harper reference but I appreciate your sarcasm. Honestly at this point I just picture Ausmus with a hat he pulls names out of at random moments in the game.

Well, “fuck” that!

That was not personal. It was just the Harper reflex to an ejection.

Hard to watch again. Miggy still looks lost . Let him sit awhile maybe that helps .

A reliever who needs a clean slate has no worth . Unless he is a closer.
Wilson ( A) 43 % IR in 2015, 38% in 2016.
Pelfrey did his job. Showing again the non value of the W stat

The lead that was; Poor old Mike; I give him kudos tonight for finally pitching an effective game, with run support, but for naught. This team cannot combine all of the elements of a good baseball team for a single game. In Pelfry’s defense, we should have had 8 runs at least. There’s no panic among the O’s; they knew they could score at least 5 runs before the ninth. Even if we had maintained a one run lead, I’m not sure KRod could have nailed it down. Our lineup should be a killing machine nightly, but we are a bunch of lambs. as I seem to be saying mostly every night, I am amazed at the number of ways that we lose games. Just sad to watch!
1. VMart really shows the importance of the healthy pushoff knee.
2. Pelfrey pitched 5 really good innings.
3. Moya had two nice hits, and needs to play more.
Kudos to Victor, Ian, Salty, and Big Mike. As others have mentioned, Miggy is not performing up to Hall of Fame standards. Maybe the downturn has begun, much sooner than I thought. I always thought he would be in the mold of Edgar Martinez and hit .330 at age 40. Hopefully I am wrong about the slide. It appears that we will be lucky to win 1-4 at O’s Park. Their 8 and 9 are automatic. Ours are a hope and a promise. When does the upturn begin Upton?

Thanks Greg – needed the 3 good things today!

Poor Moya, got sucked right into the doom & gloom.
Decent job by Pelfrey, he just might surprise us.
Loved Craig Monroe talking about player frustration. I’d have to punch Trevor if he asked me some of those ridiculous questions.

I think the W is probably one of the most important stats. You get a guy like Sale throwing for you (7-0) and as a team you play like a team that can’t or won’t be beat.
You get a guy like Pelfrey (0-4) and you get a team that plays like somehow it is going to lose.
Moya looked pretty decent today. True, he whiffed when it would have been great to get a hit but he had two nice hits and swings a vicious bat. He played left quite well and used his height to make a play. Showed a nice arm.
Upton had not too much to do as far as CFers go. He actually recovered quite well on a difficult liner hit right at him. Kudos to him for accepting the challenge and he is starting to hit the ball with some authority again. Hope it continues.
Nick looks a little cocky to me, regardless of what the announcers said the other day. Still Good for him to get his confidence going.
No small ball from Brad again.
Dollars to Donuts Upton back in CF tomorrow.
Love what I am seeing with Victor (at the plate not on the paths) going the other way is priceless.
Real tired of 0-2 fastballs.
Ausmus talk will rekindle again especially if the next two games are lost and played poorly.

ElTigre, you are so right about the W stats for pitchers. Not worth a bucket of warm spit. It’s truly sad that the mega contracts have taken from us the true Horse of starting pitching. Lolich threw 373 innings one year. Morris use to have 15 to 20 complete games. All of the pitchers of the 60’s and 70’s took the ball every 4th. day, and pitched till their arm fell off. Look at all those guys. How many cases of Tommy John were diagnosed among them. Sorry to get off the subject of the game tonight, but owners are paying 6/200 M contracts for a guy to throw 200 innings a year. How many cases of TJS do we have today?

Yeah, poor old Mike. He did great by his standards and should have had his first win since last August Of course we have been educated to know wins are not important. Just tell the guys who are trying to get into the HOF with less than 300, like MORRIS.

No question! Max, JV, Sanchez, Fister and Porcello of a few years ago reminds me of our Fantasy supported rotation that doesn’t care about wins. So, lets look at QS for our current bunch. Pelfrey had an okay performance today, but not a Quality Start. JZ (7) and JV (5) have 12 of those. The rest of the staff has only 2. Pelfrey has 1 and Greene has the other. PRICELESS!

Oh,oh! We are not winning. Doesn’t matter because wins don’t matter.

So,…I guess our current rotation really doesn’t much remind me of the bunch from a few years ago. Sarcasm was definitely intended for those who don’t read between the lines.

Price, ERA 6.00 5 W-1L. Boston has scored 10 each of last 4

Frankly, I find much of this Fantasy stuff annoying, particularly as it is often expressed by some of our fans. I will only discuss one aspect at this point and will not go into explicit detail. BUT, I will take on BABIP as an example It is definitely an important sabermetric statistic.The pertinent factors are defense, luck and talent level. As Fangraphs notes, BABIP is a “sanity test of sorts.” It allows us to see if a hitter is getting getting a boost” from any of those factors. BABIP can dramatically affect BA for a hitter or for a pitcher with BA Against. Using these stats RESPONSIBLY is important. League average is around .300. Adjusting expectations is PARAMOUNT! Typically, it is important to adjust a hitter’s average to what he has done over his career. Short dramatic spikes are usually due to luck A higher BABIP is usually controlled by talent as hitters are generally leveraging their skill The best hitters are capable of sporting a .350 BABIP range The worst will be about .260. Research indicates about 800 balls in play is necessary before BABIP stabilizes. About 2 seasons is needed to make an appropriate conclusion for talent by a hitter. Luck influences short term changes in BABIP that can impact a player’s stat line.

Last year it took me into July tor realize that this team was a bunch of overpaid underachieving bums…..this year it only took until the beginning of May!

I had hope last year up until the trade dead line . Then it was obvious the club was just going thru the motions . But expecting fans to pay high prices for tickets and concessions .

I ended up attending that game last night. A guy down the street had tickets and it was a spur of the moment thing. I thought I was bringing the team luck for awhile, until the O’s hitters went into “lunge and find a hole” mode. Upton had some tough fielding chances but pulled them off.
Jim Leyland always talked about how difficult it is to win a big league baseball game. When things are going south, it’s that much more difficult.

I thought Pelfrey had very good stuff last night and had control, but he did not get either a win or a Quality Start. It is difficult to understand how this guy can remain winless since last August with his talents So, I checked Pelfrey’s peripherals and he has been horrible in terms of some key metrics. Pelfrey finished dead last in both BA Against and WHIP compared to all MLB qualifiers in 2015. And in 2016, he is once again last in those categories. .

Pen era just under 12 over the last 10 opponents batting average over 3

I’m thinking that the bullpen guys aren’t mean enough. You can’t have hitters diving out across the plate on you. Don’t hit the guy, but bust him up and in sometimes. I don’t see how you can succeed without doing that.

Tigers PR ‏@DetroitTigersPR · Lineup at BAL: Kinsler 4, J. Martinez 9, Cabrera 3, V. Martinez DH, Castellanos 5, Upton 8, Moya 7, McCann 2, Iglesias 6. Verlander starts

Warwick Saupold joins the BP

Farrell to 60 days DL?

What is the point of calling off a pitcher that wont be available? 7 IP last May 9

That was 4 days ago! Why wouldn’t he be available?

3 days of rest. 7 IP

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