Sunday’s lineups: Tigers at Twins

I’m in Cincinnati for the Futures Game, watching Tigers relief prospect Joe Jimenez. The Tigers, meanwhile, are wrapping up the first half trying to salvage a series split in Minnesota, where Alex Avila and Anthony Gose return to the lineup against Kyle Gibson.

84tigerslogoTIGERS (career numbers off Kyle Gibson)

  1. Ian Kinsler, 2B (7-for-18, double, HR, 3 walks, K)
  2. Yoenis Cespedes, LF (3-for-5, K)
  3. Victor Martinez, DH (4-for-17, double, 3 walks)
  4. J.D. Martinez, RF (7-for-17, double, 2 HR, walk, 4 K’s)
  5. Alex Avila, C (3-for-11, double, walk, K)
  6. Nick Castellanos, 3B (2-for-16, double, walk, 5 K’s)
  7. Marc Krauss, 1B
  8. Anthony Gose, CF (4-for-6, double)
  9. Jose Iglesias, SS (0-for-3)

P: Shane Greene

wintwinslogoTWINS (numbers against Greene)

  1. Brian Dozier, 2B (1-for-5, K)
  2. Torii Hunter, RF (2-for-7, K)
  3. Joe Mauer, 1B (2-for-5, double, walk, K)
  4. Miguel Sano, DH
  5. Trevor Plouffe, 3B (3-for-6, HR, 2 K’s)
  6. Eddie Rosario, LF
  7. Aaron Hicks, CF
  8. Eric Fryer, C
  9. Danny Santana, SS (1-for-7, 2 K’s)

P: Kyle Gibson

72 Comments

Casey Mcgee signed with the Marlins. He was available like Krauss. Unlike Krauss he was once not good but very good.Missed badly there

How can the Tigers win a four game series with only one and a half pitchers?

I didn’t know any of that El T. Thanks. Next time I see Anibal fist bumping and handing the warmup ball to a child, I’ll see it through different eyes.

That was a sad, but heartwarming story.Thank you.

Alfredo Simon ,projections:
2015 (Steamer) – 4.89 ERA, 5.31 K/9, 2.95 BB/9, 1.16 HR/9
ctual:4.53 6.9 K/9 3BB/9 0.9 HR ( the CoPa effect)Edit (in 3 minutes)
“Simon benefited from a 77.5% strand rate — which Steamer projects will drop to 67.4%”
Actual: 67.4%
Babip in 2014: 265. Projected 294. Actual: 322.
Written in the sky

This was posted by a friend at Mlive

0-2 pitch right down the middle great to have you back Shane . Note to pitcher 0-2 shouldn’t be right down the freaking middle.

Shane getting squeezed meanwhile Gibson getting all kinds of pitches off the plate.

2 pitches in that ab to Avila not strikes.

Avila weighs 210. He is now hitting .198.

,It looked like Gose thought he was going to make another spectacular catch. Instead, he took a poor route and played the ball into a triple. And of course, a run subsequently scored on a hit through a drawn- in infield.

And now the floodgates open.

Jd misplaced that too. Tiger’s look like they’re ready for vacation and playing like it. Twins look like they give a crap. Almost done for the day. Tired of hoping these bums will get they’re act together.

In a nutshell, batters do not fear tiger pitching…they figure its batting practice.
I believe our pitching coach is not too effective in coaching, therefore….what a sad group….Its not good being Greene (right where he left off) After eing sent down….
what did he learn?

See, I thought today’s game to be somewhat important and would have lifted Greene after he survived the 3rd and used Wilson for the next three. These managers just can’t seem to veer away from the script. We’ve got a week off so why not use people?

They don’t give a crap…….already on vacation.

Heading for the cellar….this team is so mismanaged….I know , he’s really a nice,
guy…..9 games out and counting.

97 ground into double plays. ……how many possible rally killed. Bums

All-Star break. 44-44, 9 games behind. Do you think DD has any idea whether Price and Cespedes would stay with the Tigers? If they won’t, then I say get as much as you can in the way of top-notch prospects from teams who need a pitcher and a hitter for the stretch run. The teams that are doing well this year have young eager players. Maybe then there would be money for a bullpen. I agree with Rich when I believe he said that getting an extra draft pick for losing a free agent amounts to nothing. The Tigers don’t seem to have much in the minor leagues so why not try to build a better team through trades?

I don’t think Friday night’s loss devastated the team until Simon blew up the following day, and then Greene did the same today. As Jim used to say about momentum…..

Okay, we’ve got a week to discuss buying and selling with no games to cause frustration.

Atta boy! Glad to see you’re now on board with the rest of us neurotics.

I think Illitch’s “win now” team philosophy has hurt. DD has been forced to trade for big name players and then trying to use band-aids in the case of the bullpen. I think Krauss should go first. Give Lennerton his chance. If he can get something promising for Avila, do it. Mc and Doc can handle the catching. As I said before, if there is any indication Price and Cespedes won’t stay or will demand another outer space contract, move them now. Someone might be able to use Rajai, too, especially if he doesn’t fit into future plans at age 34.
.
They’ve used the present philosophy for years now and it just isn’t paying off. I also believe it is time for Ausmus to go.

Nine seasons, 2 WS appearences, 4 division titles, one tiebreaker game, and only twice has there been no meaningful games in September. I will take that over a single WS win any time.

Illitch may have to take that Rich!
There is some serious work to do for Dombrowski.
Now, right now, he can at least make the season interesting while building for next year. This year is done. There is no way anything he can do with a depleted farm system can re-insert them back into the race.
So Make it interesting:
Trade Cespedes. You can get a bunch for him right now. Next year he will a year older and another RHB in the middle of the lineup. Get an established starter and a prospect.
Keep Price. No matter the Price. can you imagine trying to win without him? The havoc that has been thrust upon the rotation this year alone has been insurmountable, why compound things? Question is will he want to stay? He is a great guy to have on your team. A good pitcher. A lefty. The list goes on.
If Verlander shows signs of not being able to go the distance any longer than make him be dennis Ecersley or John Smoltz. He could be devastating out of the bullpen. I’d say trade him (Toronto?) but his contract was contaminated years ago.
Avila has to go. And now oryou get nothing in return. As a loyal Tiger who gets compensated for being simply that he would become another drain on the future financials.
Rajai has value: Bye-Bye. (Insist Gose play winter ball and learn how to deal with LHP.)
Castellanos also has value. He will never, ever, be an even adequate 3rd baseman so you damn well better factor that into the construction of the team next year and following.
I hope Simon is a free agent. He will be useless.
Kinsler may be able to bring something in return though I expect his contract will seriously interfere with that possibility. Can Machado paly 2nd base?
I hate to say it, but Victor’s time left here will be problem. Another drastic contract.
It will get to be a time where they will need to preserve Miggy by DHing him and Victor will still be walking up to the plate in that role with crutches.
Bring up Moya. Let him struggle in the bigs. Yes he will strike out alot. (Doesn’t JD, Casty, Avila and even Miggy a bit?) At least he will inject some youth and optimism for the fans with a powerful awesome LHB.
Bring up Jiminez. Why not? Other teams have discovered surprising phenoms from the bowels of their farm systems.

The biggest question for Dombrowski will be the one he seemingly hasn’t had to worry about much….who is going to comprise the starting rotation in Detroit the next few years?

It is pitiful in TigerTown right now.So much hope in that first two weeks; nothing but heartache in the next two months. It’s so pitiful because every other team is bringing up their prospects one by one; they have young powerful arms to be in their pen. We’ve traded the farm to stay in contention; I’m glad for the last decade, but it really looks ugly going forward. I was talking with my son about Dan’s idea of making JV the next great closer. he won his 150, as a starter; he can earn his way to the Hall just like Eck. Also agree that DP must be the anchor if he’s willing. I have more hope for Green than Simon. Anabal should give us 13-15 wins each year to the end of his deal.
Have to also agree with Mr. Dan, that troubled waters lie ahead in the lineup. Miggy must transition to DH sooner than later; I love the professional approach and passion which Victor brings to our team. But the knees are losing the battle, so that challenge is ahead. Krauss was such an insult of a signing; great guy, good team mate. Can’t hit his weight. How this team justifies Avila getting more games than McCann, is beyond understanding; I know the “Daddy” thing, but the time has to come for Alex to take a secondary role.
I knew that we would lose this game today; you see it in facial expressions and body language. Both said loudly, “get me out of this place.” I have high hopes that Kinsler will have a great second half. I don’t know what to tell DD. Should he buy or do a fire sale? This will more than likely be his last big move as GM. Having said all of this, there were several things that I rally liked about our first half:
1. The emergence of McCann as an able catcher who will have a good major league career.
2. The turnaround by Sanchez after a horrendous start to the season.
3. The strong performance by the defense, especially the Middle guys, in the first one third of the season. Defense has fallen off a little lately, but has kept us from losing more games.
4. The enjoyment of watching DP, not only as a dependable starter, but to see what a great team player he is. SIGN HIM DAVE!
5. The continuing development of Julio as a bona fide right hand slugger.
6. Miggy at the plate.
7. The very steady and unselfish work of Alex Wilson. Without him, we lose three more games.
8. The choreographed ballet by Igloo at the six.
9. The base stealing frenzy of the first three weeks. Where did it go?
10 The early dominance of the Indians and Twins. Sadly that seems over too.

I never thought I would say it, but the Twins rotation is better than ours. For that matter, so are the Indians, Sox, and KC. We have seen more GIDP’s than any other team in baseball; we have gone 88 games without the projected pre season starts in any game.; we have ground into a triple play;we scored two runs or less more than anyone else; and we did something that no other team had done in the previous 1057 situations. Truly a .500 club;in reality lucky to be a .500 club. But they are my club, and Lord willing, I’ll follow them through the next 74, expecting to 55-19.

That “first time in 1057 games” thing sounds astounding, but it only means it hasn’t happened since last season. Not something you want to do, but not all that remarkable. An example of numbers run amuck.

I would like to hear DD reporting to the Illitch family . What went so very wrong with this club . We could see it was about to happen . But Tigers brass could not or chose to look the other way. Sad this has occured ,

Should be early dominance “over” the Indians and Twins

BA has had enuff rope to prove he is not ready. It’s time for Gardenhire or Baker or some other vet who can win. And…Anyone who thinks a manager doesn’t matter needs to reconsider his position. Signed… Knute Rockne, Vince Lombardi, Jimmy Johnson, Sparky Anderson, Davie Johnson , Billy Martin et al.

Had to work today, but DVR’d the game but am not going to watch. Got the text with the score and am not interested. I was afraid this was going to happen in Minnesota. I am still fuming about the 2nd game with Verlander and have not recovered. DD will probably take calls on everyone and I hope he gets some good options. Not having Miggy in the lineup is not the reason this team has succumbed to less than mediocrity. We are heading to last place in a hurry.

I gave up on catching the Royals weeks ago because this is their year. We are very much in the wild card hunt.
Since no one is really buying or selling anything, let’s talk trades and leave out the media created verbiage.
The Tigers need a starting pitcher. They actually need two, so let’s say one and a half. For a team to have a winning streak, it needs at least one successful turn through the rotation, and that has not happened. That’s why they’re treading water. Detroit teams in recent years had rotations that could spark hot streaks.
It’s tough to strengthen a bullpen during the season but there are arms here that have potential if used properly. That’s been an issue. Even today, anyone could see Greene was not going to be dominant so why not go to the trusty Wilson for three frames and stay in the game? I think Brad finishes the season but after that his job is in serious jeopardy. He’s slow to make changes and makes questionable in-game decisions; in other words, your typical manager but one that may take the fall for not being given a useful bullpen.
To acquire the needed parts, we have to offer young talent under team control. Who better than one who is already in his sophomore season? Talking Castellanos here. I can hear the uproar already; he’ll get better, he’s young, etc. I watch him play every day and I don’t see it. There are no numbers to detail what he’s lacking.
Avila is an obvious trade candidate but the return would be much less. He’s superfluous and I don’t see any pitching improvement when he’s the receiver.
Since we don’t have the prospects we once did, I’m referring to guys on the big club.
Detroit needs a starter (or 1.5 starters) and they can make a run at the wild card. A club like Detroit can’t call in the dogs while they’re still very much in the hunt.

Tigers CS: 31 most in MLB
XBase taken 35 % 3rd worst in the AL
Reckless runners like Gose an Kinsler and some times Iglesias forced them to forget about running
There is a time for running and is not with your best hitters .
Simon will be a FA .But DD thinks there are atenuating circunstances.His fall began after the trip to the DR
Alex Wilson? 11 for 46 IR. 46 %. No with runners on
Only Price , maybe Cespedes could net a good o prospect. The rest? maybe, a low level prospect. If the Tigers are so bad scouting, why it would be different with the prospects from other team? Hey Krol, Lomabardozzi and Ray for Fister….
Why is Krauss playing? there were less bad options
The time to sell Kinsler was the offseason
Verlander showed he can do it last Friday. The manager lost that game.
He is and will remain a starter, he reached 97 and his slider was working . I bet that he will be serviceable longer than Scherzer.
I expect Cespedes to remain with the team. he is fast enough to score from first on a double.He has some good years as soon as he play with more consistency
Gose? he took another bad route. He keep diving for the show.
Said that, the season is not over yet.

I’d like to get a contract on Cespedes. Good multi-tool player.
Why IS Krauss playing? I thought he was an emergency fill-in until they could get someone else. Kind of like when it’s late at night and you stop at a store to get beer and all they’ve got is Old Milwaukee. You buy only the amount you want that night and buy the good stuff the following day. Anyway, Romine hasn’t seen any action at firstbase and he’s intelligent enough to play anywhere. I’m baffled by some of this stuff.
I think they get a pitcher, some way or somehow.

DD” Simon has not pitched well recently. We know that. We think he’s a better pitcher than he’s pitched. There’s been some extenuating circumstances. We like what we saw early. We like his ability” His numbers say he is wrong

DD….”So for me, I think we just continue the way we are.”…..works for me…. “We’ll take the Kramer.”

Teams win Championships, not superstars. I’m a firm believer that the head and the heart are the most critical components on a team. To quote Jim Leyland, It’s not who you play, it’s when you play them. I also believe a fan base and what they believe factors in. I know…oooo-weee-oooo… For the Verlander detractors, try pushing your pencils and walking to the coffee pot at work (for 2 yrs) with a hernia. Oh yeah…push that pencil at 90-93 mph and don’t ever complain or use it as an excuse… Price is nice. Sanchez has the nastiest stuff. Wilson, Hardy, Albuquerque, Rondon, Perez, and Soria, have awesome tools…more than adequate. Iggy and Kinsler are all I could hope for. Avila has real leadership ability. Look at what Hunter has done in the Twin Cities. Victor is and will be lethal for awhile and his leadership is integral. Miggy is Miggy. NC is young and I like him waaaay better than the moose that plays for the team with the best record in the AL. The outfield I wouldn’t trade for love or money. In short I still believe like I did in April. I hate hearing Comerica sounding like Camden Yds with all the whinning know it all haters…Move to Boston…please. As far as Jones and Ausmus go…think of 3 guys at work that are to your team what Smiley, Scherzer, and Porchelo were to this one. Now imagine they all move to your companies competitors tomorrow. Unless you mow lawns or park bicycles for a living, Tuesdays gonna suck! And it’ll be a bit before things get back in operable condition.
hmmm wonder why they play poorly at home…

I will continuing to watch every game…(not very bright) 1st year in 10 years I don’t have season tickets picked a good year huh. They can torture me at home for a lot less money.
.
But Rick baseball is entertainment they are very well paid entertainers. They have been anything but. I don’t blame athletes for injuries. I do blame them for playing like they were already on vacation. I blame them for grounding into a record setting pace of double plays. I blame the pitchers for underperforming. I blame Ausmus for crazy decisions. I blame DD for trading Fister and not getting squat for him….and not knowing that Scherzer had 0 intention of ever signing back. I blame DD for continuing to make bad decisions regarding the pen.
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I’m done making excuses for them. It costs a lot of money and time to go to games and I’m simply done for the year. They provided great fun over the last several years. ..
But they aren’t fun this year…….they are not entertaining. I’ll watch at home and continue to hope. But if you think they give a crap about the fans of the Tigers and they’re is any loyalty to you ….nope they’d put on a new uniform in a heartbeat for a couple extra bucks.

If anyone is looking for loyalty in baseball or any business for that matter, look elsewhere. Neither owners nor employees, with few exceptions, can be counted on for loyalty.

You are much better off getting a dog.

Oh yeah? Try not feeding the dog. I’m kidding, I love dogs.

Man, there’s a lot of chatter out there in Tigerland. People debating whether to buy or sell even though neither of the terms are clearly defined. There are even “buy/sell” polls. Does sell mean build for 2016 or 2025? I scanned the minor league rosters and found no players named Top Prospect, and that’s the guy people are begging for. Then it comes down to the individual fan’s needs. Does someone who watches every game want to sit through 70-win seasons? How many people think that an influx of new players will automatically be an improvement?
This is all part of the modern baseball experience.

How do you decide what to do with a useful pending free agent if you have no idea if he wants to continue playing on your team?
Should you buy a new car if you think your current one will either break down or continue to run smoothly for years to come?

Regarding deadline deals, Tony Paul of the News wrote an article yesterday chronicling many of DD’s moves. Much of his info has already been discussed on this blog, but Paul did present it in a very orderly fashion.

“Take all that clubhouse [stuff] and all that, throw it out the window.
Every writer in the country has been writing about that [nonsense] for
years. Chemistry don’t mean [anything]. He’s up here because he’s good.
That don’t mean [a hill of beans]. They got good chemistry because their
team is improved, they got a real good team, they got guys knocking in
runs, they got a catcher hitting .336, they got a phenom pitcher they
just brought up. That’s why they’re happy” Jim Leyland.

A soon to be FA is the best player you can have in a team. JL said he liked players fighting for their beans.
Just ask ,CB, The contract player who vanished after signing his contract to reappear in his last year. They need to show their value before reaching FA.
Very few will kept themselves like Scherzer , Drew or Eltsbury ( they were Boras clients)

Was Jason to the Twins the first trade of July?

Jk.He had a know thy rival post about a Twins prospect

He was doing a lousy job protecting Iott’s Mac anyway.

I realize the media has to write stories but I’ve just read two about the deadline business and both referred to Friday night’s game. I don’t see the connection. While that one was a psychological left hook to the chin, it was basically a failure of two pitchers and a bad job by the manager. It’s not like the entire bullpen blew up. Two announcers in whom I trust thought that Soria hadn’t had enough time to warm up, but Brad saw save situation and reacted like one of Pavlov’s puppies.
The crusher was yet another terrible pitching performance the next day and even then the guys fought back until the Hunter homer. Yesterday if Brad would have counted his blessings and lifted Greene after three, we might be in a different situation today.
Anyway, like the 1057 number, it makes a good story.

Galli:”David Price said he wanted to talk contract extension with the Tigers. Didn’t happen. His future is a popular topic ”
Fenech:”He didn’t delve deeply into the Tigers’ free agents-to-be, but Dombrowski said the team still hopes to sign David Price long-term.”

David Price: “I don’t think about being traded this year. I honestly don’t think it’ll happen this year. We have a very good team.”

Strong rumors that Cubs (Epstein/Maddon) covet Price and will go all out for him. Cubs feel good about their playoff opportunity this year, so may be willing to send plenty in return. Why not trade him and get something in return unlike the Scherzer free agency.

Never saw Price in the D after 2015 following Victor’s resigning.
Mr I’s absolute max, reset a few times in recent years, has been reached at the luxury tax limit.
With depth being our achilles heel, hard to see DD changing tack from rebounds. Provided they still have velocity, got nothing to lose.
Crazy that Miggy is likely to be healthy at season end when it doesn’t matter.

Heyman:”one person familiar with the Tigers’ plans said, “They are trying to win, not trade.”

“Price’s appearance on the trade market would shake up a trade market as he is one of the best pitchers in the game. At the same time, it would shock most folks, not just him.”

El T, could Mr I take on another $30MM salary for Price if if fact he is what he is, one of the best starters in baseball? I’m hoping we see the JV we saw on Friday night in Minny allyt more during the 2nd half to compliment Price and make a run for the playoffs.

I watched the HR Derby for a few minutes and have two suggestions, both having to do with presentation. 1) Switch up the camera angle so we can actually see the homers. They stuck with the tired behind the pitcher format even though balls and strikes weren’t being called. Try some long shots. 2) Get rid of Berman. All that shouting made me turn it off before I had planned to. Perhaps they’re trying to attract millennials by sheer volume.

I’m 300+ miles from Comerica, so I watch much more than I see. It was painful for me to watch Leyland never bunt, almost never steal, and basically refuse to manufacture a run. The early steals, squeezes, and general push of the O made me very hopefully in April. Speed kills. Failure to use it is indeed a mystery. Letting pitchers bury themselves is a mystery. Loyalty has indeed become a non entity in Pro ball. The word itself, to our 21st century minds belongs in an old shoe box under the stairs, right next to hope, faith, miracle, or even wonder. But, the thing I love about all sports is exactly this. The moment you put humans to task, statistics and metrics, are in danger of being rendered foul. The 4 minute mile stood as a barrier to man-kind for as long as time was measurable. In the first 60 days after Bannister broke that barrier, his record was eclipsed 4 times. By different runners, some of whom were never even considered remotely capable. A statistical anomaly. I live for the unpredictable, the anomaly, the JD… It entertains me so much more than the predictable. God Bless these boys! They are indeed unpredictable, and therefore ooze with potential.

This:
31 CS. Most in MLB.SB% : 65 8th lowest in MLB.
Out on base 33: tied for 8th in MLB
Xbase taken 35% tied for second lowest in MLB
Bases taken 61. 6th worst
But tied for 9 in run scored %
They are bad a running: 28th in MLB.
Castellanos and Iglesias being the worst offenders. You can add Kinsler who is not the worst but was one of the best in MLB and now is well below average

The HR was entertaining , finally. But i wont be surprised if more players refuse to take part. It was really physically demanding.
The final round had me , and I guess most, rooting for Frazier, just for the sake of emotion

I would have enjoyed watching Yoenis in the Derby. After all, he won 2 straight years in a row and still wanted to compete. Also, it would have been fun to see JD in the darn thing, too.

If the club is going to bother with getting a starting pitcher (or two) they shouldn’t bother with trying to save some pesos with a Blue-Light Special. They need to get one that actually can win games and not simply eat innings.

How could you not root for Frazier? Nothing is better than a home town boy doing something great in his own ballpark. I still get tears remembering the emotion I felt being at Comerica in ’06 when Maggs hit that homer. Baseball can be very emotional.
Here’s hoping the Tigers come back Friday refreshed, recharged and ready to win.

Lets hope they come back a new team. I was at the game in 2006 also. Sounded like a gun going off in my ear when Maggs hit the ball. What a game that was.

Like the “old shoebox under the stairs” analogy Rick. Good post. Tell you what, this team is going to either play or get out of the way in the second half. Led by Price, there is some grit. Regardless of all our wishes to fix all the problems, there isn’t enough expendable talent to land any impact player(s) anyway. (I’m sure I’ll get some feedback here) Ten years of competing has gotten us to this point. And the loyalty thing goes both ways. Not a lot of love for the ones who are scuffling. Example: I remember when what seemed like half the people here had written JD off when he was scuffling shortly after his decent start, convinced 2014 was an aberration. Calls for sending him down for fixing if indeed he was fixable. Still, there are some small changes that could improve the team. Lennerton, for one, comes to mind. In the meantime, Roy Hobbs where are you?

Bowden:
The Tigers and David Price camp have not had contract extension talks since Spring Training according to sources

Am I the only one unable to scroll this site on a PC? My HR derby post from last night will be my last if I can only use a tablet or phone. Need a keyboard.

Since last week, I have problems to log in the evening. I thought it was the low speed of the conection here or filtering.
I had the same problem twice with my Android device.

I have but seldom use a bluetooth keyboard with the tablet

Rich, had the same issue earlier this morning on couple of occasions as well. Maybe performing server maintenance given the A/S break and perceived lack of posts? Seems to be fine now.

Do any of our MudHen fans know much about Marte’s fielding ability at 3rd?
Still wonder if Casty could handle 1st at all. IMO Nick moves better to his backhand than forehand. Probably because a backhand does not place you in “front of the ball”. I have always contended he is ball shy.
Even with Iggy patrolling short there are far to many two hoppers thru the hole between short and 3rd, and many of them under the arm/body/glove of Casty.
With no 1st baseman (virtually) and perhaps no chance of playoffs (OK will patiently wait till August) why not?

Stark:”As you might have heard, there will be 20 players age 25 or younger on the rosters of the two All-Star teams Tuesday night. How many times has that happened before in 85 previous All-Star Games? Zero”
“an amazing total of seven position players 23 and younger are on pace to rack up at least five Wins Above Replacement this season”
Castellanos age can not be the excuse for his below average game

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