Thursday’s lineups: Tigers at Twins

Ian Kinsler returns to the starting lineup at the leadoff spot. Marc Krauss, Alex Avila and Anthony Gose start as well, loading up the Tigers lineup with left-handed hitters against Mike Pelfrey, who actually has allowed a lower batting average to left-handed hitters (.275) than to righties (.307) this season as well as for his career but has allowed a higher OPS in both cases.

TIGERS (career numbers off Pelfrey)

  1. Ian Kinsler, 2B (2-for-12, double, 2 K’s)
  2. Yoenis Cespedes, LF (4-for-10, 2 doubles, K)
  3. Victor Martinez, DH (5-for-20, double, walk, 3 K’s)
  4. J.D. Martinez, RF (3-for-6, double, 3 K’s)
  5. Alex Avila, C (3-for-11, 4 walks, 5 K’s)
  6. Nick Castellanos, 3B (2-for-5, HR, walk)
  7. Marc Krauss, 1B (1-for-3, K)
  8. Anthony Gose, CF (3-for-9, double, 2 walks, 2 K’s)
  9. Jose Iglesias, SS (3-for-7)

P: David Price

TWINS (career numbers off Price)

  1. Brian Dozier, 2B (6-for-24, 2 doubles, 2 HR, walk, 4 K’s)
  2. Joe Mauer, 1B (5-for-30, double, 4 walks, 7 K’s)
  3. Trevor Plouffe, 3B (7-for-18, double, walk, 4 K’s)
  4. Miguel Sano, DH
  5. Torii Hunter, RF (8-for-29, double, HR, 2 walks, 8 K’s)
  6. Eduardo Nunez, SS (9-for-37, 2 doubles, HR, 3 walks, 4 K’s)
  7. Aaron Hicks, CF (3-for-8, 2 doubles, walk, 3 K’s)
  8. Kurt Suzuki, C (6-for-28, 3 doubles, HR, walk, 10 K’s)
  9. Shane Robinson, LF (0-for-2, walk, K)

P: Mike Pelfrey

78 Comments

Tigers better win this series or trade/extend impending free agents. Soria is perhaps the one exception in that he should remain, and Alex that he must go to make way for McCann.
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On another note, watching this series with my Twins-fan friend.

Why not hit Jose Iglesias 2nd and Cespesdes 5th?

“Well, the one upside to Cespedes is he can really run,” Ausmus said. “Generally, you want guys who can score from first on a double when you have Miguel Cabrera and Victor Martinez coming up after him”

“I have considered it, multiple times. There’s always that question: Is a guy hitting what he’s hitting because of where he’s hitting?” manager Brad Ausmus said Tuesday. “And would it change if you moved him? Because you’ve gotta get the most out of Jose Iglesias. So do you take a chance he’s OK if you move him, or do you just say, he’s doing well here, let sleeping dogs lie?”

http://www.theoaklandpress.com/sports/20150630/brad-ausmus-has-thought-about-moving-jose-iglesias-up-in-tigers-batting-order-but-hasnt-yet

BTW: Iglesias Base running: -3.6 Cespedes: 2.3 . Gose 2.4. Cespedes is second only of Davis in speed, Even if he cant steal 2B (but 3B is a piece of cake for him)

I would assume management will have a handle on which FAs are likely to re-sign. Avila is the one guy who’s replacement is already here, so you definitely try to get some value for him.
I’m not thrilled about receiving draft picks in return for free agents who leave.

The new lineup has been scoring lots of runs. I wouldn’t change it at this point.

Wilson and Speier are the compensation for Cespedes. The QO is excluded by contract.
At 16 MM , no QO for Avila, Davis or Simon.
Only for Price and maybe, Soria( I guess most of us expect them to extend Soria)

Not even CWS and Cleveland are sellers. Why the Tigers?

Rich… It is not about draft picks…It is about getting something. WTF… I left a note like many others before on previous blogs and this blew up, What happenned?

And it is not only about draft picks. Since 2012 alone, count back to the deadline deals . DD has been huge. You know the the players..

Excellent article Rich. That guy can write. Romine, like Wilson, has been and will be a key to the Tigers’ 2015 post season run, if in fact there is one. I really appreciate both of them. Effective SP is still the main key and concern. Right now Tigers have maybe 2 reliable starters, one huge question mark, a 4th starter who will be fortunate to pitch 500 here on out, and minor leaguers. Not a great scenario. The good news is that most other teams are struggling with those same problems.
Right now, unless there is total collapse in the next 3 weeks, why would they want to sell? The team was put together for this year, regardless of the present situation. Dare I say that even the catastrophic injury to Miguel has a potential silver lining. In his absence, this team must now find a way to pull together as a team and find ways to win. There is still a lot of talent that can flourish. I would not suggest for one second that they don’t need Miguel. He is the man. But they need to find out how good they can be without him. Now they are forced into that scenario. You guys know how it is in life. When there is a person who can do it all in an organization, the rest kind of come to expect that person will lead and come through. They lean on him/her. Not saying it’s always the case, but this may well have a psychological impact on other team members’ contribution expectations/play. Not meaning to overthink this, but I am hopeful the TEAM even without Miggy, can be successful.
Alex Avila’s leadership qualities are important right now, especially with SP situation. I would not consider trading him. James McCann should not be allowed to wither on the bench either. Brad, whom by the way, I believe is a decent manager, has to find ways to keep them both in the lineup as much as possible. I would be very leery of any big trades/ mid season fixes that could potentially alter the existing chemistry. Yes chemistry is important. Isn’t that obvious to any thinking individual? How many deadline trades have actually made any real difference for the Tigers in the last 10 years? I would argue that even Price could not significantly help the Tigers last year. It took him a lot of precious time to adjust to that huge change in his life. Unfair pressure put on him. Ultimately we were 3 and out. Who do you want to give away from “this TEAM” to acquire some “saving” impact player anyway?…..the boy and the leaking dam maybe. Plug a hole and another one opens up.
And yes, I think Alex Wilson has been an unsung team player, as has one of my favorites, Andrew Romine. I’d be happy to see Andrew play more and for Alex to get some needed arm rest so he can continue to help this TEAM down the stretch.

I can think of a few. I personally think Avila is so over-rated that he must have his own PR staff stoking the fire. Rajai Davis is s nice guy and a valuable player, but perhaps more valuable to another team to ours. Especially at his age. He can not be relied upon defensively and his history against RHP will condem him to the bench. Why not get something in return for someone who will be a non-factor?
Both of the above are assets that another team may need (and pay for) at this stage of the season.
Ian Krol. I think he has potential but let’s face it, he is not helping and DD would probably love to divest himself of the last vestige ill-fated Fister trade.
Other than that, we have nothing to offer. Unless DD further depletes meaningful prospects. None of which are enticing enough to other GMs to attract any significant
return.
No one would want Victor, Kinsler, Verlander, Simon, Greene.
I do believe that we are going to lose Price to free agencey. And the ironic thing about that is we keep hearing how much Illitch wants to win yet he allows gems like Max and Price go all the while he retains the image of being a spendthrift owner who wants to win. Can you imagine this team with Max, David and Smyly on it?
And Verlander will be earning big bucks for years to come? Image and loyalty have interfered with logic and judgement.
BTW, David Price managing that 3rd inning was magnificent. And Jose made a terrific play to make a huge statement to the Twins in terms of being able to get back into this game.

Umpire clearly let Tori get away with trying to kill Jose there….he clearly couldn’t have touched the bag. Did I ever mention my hatred for umpires.

Missed the last two games, nice to be able to watch tonight. I don’t think Price will be back next year either, but I’d sure welcome him back.
Comerica Park was rocking last night…..great Stones concert.

They know where to hit.to Castellanos. All nigh long going for him. So much for his improved defense. A DH looking for a postion

Gotta make that catch. ..really bad

Tigers hitters making quick easy outs….meanwhile twins hitters working it.

Biting my tongue and it doesn’t feel good.

And now, the second coming of Johnny Bench drops the ball

Twins shouldn’t have 1 run let alone 2. Congratulations Castellanos terrific job. 2 errors in 1 inning.

He just does not stretch and seems “defensive” as a fielder rather than someone who goes all out. He is ball-shy, pure and simple and completely unconfident in the field.
Most 3rd basemen love to go to their left. Castellanos abhors it and is awful at it.
The last part of that play also emphasizes another glaring weakness. Alex Avila. he more often than not can’t hang on to any throws form the outfield. Even easy ones like that that come in on the fly. That should have been an out. It would have been if James was there and the wild pitch previously would have been blocked too.
As I said and steadfastly maintain, he is very over-rated.

I watched Avila drop yet another throw to the plate trying to tag out sliding runner. I noticed this because McCann was able to complete the swipe tag at the plate so well. I cannot remember the last time Avila successfully tagged a runner in a close play at the plate.

Not a good game so far. Price 80 pitches. Pelfrey 50 pitches and he was supposedly the weak link in their rotation. And now 2 errors from Casty.

Right bloody on Martin.
One more observation, Do y’all remember when the tigers started off at 11-2?
Do you remember who was leading (by a healthy margin) baseball in stolen bases?
Whatever happened to that picture?
Anybody else feel there may be a slight correlation there?

Castellanos does not hit enough (yet) to justify a DH role. His only hope is at 1B. Another year of this nonsense and the timing of moving Miggy to DH and Casty to 1B could be a possibility. A better option is another 3rd sacker and something really valuable in return for a promising hitter with a controllable contract.
Changis that error to a hit is ridiculous.

“After a scoring change, Torii Hunter gets a RBI single in the fifth inning. Nick Castellanos is not charged with an error”

Umpire is consistently calling balls off the right side of the plate strikes.

Baring a slow reaction by Casty, I was wondering why Torii didn’t initially get credited with a hit. Ball was hit hard. Could have gone either way though. Iggy is amazing.

Why did you send Krauss. Poor move

Deadline trades did help the Tigers: Fister,Infante, Sánchez plus the waiver trades Peralta and Young..
Huff, Betemit and Baker? JL refused to play them like Ausmus refused to play Soria

Lest you forget, Price.

First out at home worst the the third at 3B

Iglesias does a lot of things well hitting with runners in scoring position and rbi’s not one of them.

13th out at home. Tied for first in the AL

I can’t believe that isn’t a homer it bounced off the top of the wall.

You cannot be a 3rd base coach for the Tigers unless you make a half-dozen gaffes like the one Clarke just did. That was about as dumb as you can get.
Cespedes comes through in the clutch. That was absolutely momentous.

Maybe gthis makes Ian start going for the downs but at least it restores his confidence which was ebbing

A thing of beauty Yoenis.

David given some support and should be able to get through the 8th with a bit of a breather there.

David did it.

Can’t get too comfy. Go Tigers!

Good victory, excellent actually but our guys can’t be hanging around the plate admiring their well hit fly balls. Gose should have learned this from a previous drive to CF earlier in the year. It didn’t factor with Krause thrown out but it just does not look right..
Kinsler did the same admiring his double off the top of the wall. He virtually walked to 2nd base..
You gotta burn out of that box. Why on earth would you not at this level of importance?

The other night I was watching MLB network and they showed parts of the Royals and Cleveland Indian games. Those guys played with real fire. You could feel it just by watching a few snippets of the game. Don’t see anyone jogging to 2nd base thinking they have a HR. That’s is disheartening and they should know better.

A win…….is a win. The next Twins’ starting pitchers are supposedly tougher. Can JV, Simon and Greene keep Twin’s hitters under control?

That will be a tall task. Every one of those three has problems.

They can talk about Avila’s pitch framing all they want, since he can’t hold onto the ball, throw anyone out or hit very good.

The opposing catchers must all be master pitch framers, judging by the calls that go against Detroit hitters.

As I said the other day, I think the “buyers and sellers” thing is a myth. You make deals to improve your club, either for the current season or the very near future. With so many teams in the WC chase, it will mostly be about this season. At any rate, a club should be prepared to make any deal at any time if the return is right. I wouldn’t give Avila away, but I sure would take a close look at the offer. If Castellanos can avoid falling flat on his face, I’d like to see what is offered for him.

I didn’t think it possible that umpiring could get worse, but it is. Two bad calls in two days on the 2ndbase slide rule. Torii flat out cheated there but I guess it’s okay if you get away with it. Not cool, Torii. Respect the game.

For sure he did, but do they call the batter out at first or simply the runner out for interference?

I think Plate calling has stooped to a new low. Maybe five big league Umps have a true knowledge of the strike zone, or at least stay consistent if they modify the zone.
I never thought I’d see the day that I would be okay with some technology for calling balls and strikes. Have the plate monitored by sensors or something that would indicate when the ball is any part of the strike zone. Let the ump makes his calls, but if he misses, a light flashes, and the count is adjusted. That’s how bad I think it has gotten. And I’m not even talking about base calling. Check swing miss tonight was horrible. Tori gets the call further away from second, as Julio is called out for a lesser distance in his slide. I’ve always loved the human element of our game, but these new guys don’t have the passion and love that Augie Donatelli had. enough of that.
Great opening series win on the road against a central opponent. DP righted his ship and sailed around the storm. 15-3 in his starts. I would sell the sink to keep this guy under contract. The big question is tomorrow. Can we win three straight? And then, can we take the series.? Would be a huge boost going into break. Hate that Krauss was gassed; Clark burns another one; he gets tips from our bench coach;remember those wasted runs from Lamont when he roamed the third base box.
1. Igloo’s defense was critical in the win.
2. We win with nothing from VMart or Julio.
3. We win with everything from 8-9-1-2.
Mega Kudos to Ian and David. So now, Mr. Verlander, go out and throw a 5 hit shutout tomorrow night. After 104 pitches, take a bow, and go take a shower.
Still standing with no Miggy.

Not much love for AA these days. Apparently he can’t do anything well, yet he has worth in trade? Interesting. I was simply saying that he has some value to this team as a veteran presence. He isn’t the impact player a contending team would be looking for anyway, unless that team had an immediate need to fill the catching position. I’d rather see McCann get the lions share of the catching for sure. BA eventually will have to make that decision. Regarding the dropped ball tonight, it was after a play that could have been made at 3rd plus a double clutch by LF. Great throw by Yoenis but still a half second lost.
With all the base running blunders we’re fortunate to have won. Let’s see if lessons are learned at least in the short run. ET, thanks for the good examples of deadline trades. Do you agree there has been a cost? The depletion of talent depth in the system over the past few years. The window continues to be enticing though. Is there any immediate help left at AAA level? Especially with pitching? Not necessarily rhetorical questions. Tigers can still put a very good lineup on the field but who is expendable if they need to go get another pitcher or even two?
Thank goodness, despite our best efforts to give the game away, a much needed win.

Rich…I am having problems with my computer and want to finish my earlier thought. DD has made lots of in-season buyer moves of note. Since 2012 alone, his acquisitions have included Fister, Infante, Sanchez, Iggy and Price. Those guys are not mythical creatures.

Soria should also be on that list of “notable” acquisitions.

The bad trades were mostly off -season trades: Fister, Rentería, Simon, Greene, Gose.González
And the farm is depleted because it was not good to begin with( link at the other post). DD does magic they said, but he needs to give two or three prsopects or even MLB players each time. And very few have been any good with their new team
Soria was costly but was the consequence of a bad signing: Nathan.In my book Thompsom and Knebel are the cost of Nathan ( the red flags were there but DD went for him)
AA is valued as game caller, he wont receive a QS. Try to trade him
And Price, well, he repleced Scherzer . When I read the rumor liking him to the Tigers I reallythought , they were joking. They dont have enough to get the best arm available . But yes…
Smyly is out for the season, the Tigers steped his load to fast

If I’ve left the impression that I dislike Dombrowski’s mid-season deals, I must have really blown it in stating my position on the trade deadline. It’s just the opposite; I think Mr. D has been the best in baseball at it. I expect the same from him this year.
I recently did make a joking reference to Aubrey Huff but that was in regard to who could replace Miggy. Huff is retired. And even that was a good deal if Leyland would have used him correctly.
I chose Avila as “trade bait” because he has a good reputation as a receiver and his replacement is already on the roster.
I mentioned draft picks because of that qualifying offer thing; something I know little about. I’m not that interested in front office machinations, being more of an on the field guy,
Or maybe I misconstrued that I was misconstrued. 🙂

Or you just found out what condition your condition was in!!

While I hated that steroid-era insanity that made ballparks look like artillery practice ranges, it’s gone too far the other way. I’m in favor of addressing the strike zone and eliminating severe defensive shifts. The game is suffering and nobody will want to watch it after we old timers go to that great cornfield in Iowa.

Heyman:
Some believe they should consider selling, but there’s no sign of such a consideration yet. A starter is the prime thought, but they could also look for a corner bat, perhaps someone to play some first base now while Carbrera’s out, and maybe third if Nick Castellanos continues to struggle”.

“Machinations”…….love that word…… even sounds like oil and gears. I never got the impression Rich, that you disliked Dombrowski’s mid-season deals. I think your position as stated above, and in general for that matter, is logically spot on… If it improves the team make the deal. DD has made some good trades both in and out of season. Kind of embarrassed that I’d forgotten about Fister. That was a great one. He was one of my favorites. But where is he now? Oh yea, lost in a bad trade. They aren’t all good. I just generally don’t like deadline trades. Sentimentality is a character flaw in the world of business… I don’t hear anyone else on this blog supporting my position. This year just feels different, now down 7 games and the franchise player out for 6-8 weeks. Maybe DD can pull another lagomorph out of his hat. Time for the team to get busy playing.

It seems as if, despite the wonderful years by a good portion of the lineup, the Tigers are just out of sync this season. They might be rescued by a hot September that gets them into the wild card. But they seem to be running in mud this year. But not too many teams win four straight division titles.

I know the dimensions of the baselines have to be exactly the same in MLB, but the depth, length and just about every other space around those baselines can be exactly how the organizations builds it and it can make a real difference in how runs are scored. Trying to think of any other professional sport that does this.

Not exactly the same but in soccer, there are rules about the time to water the grass. Some teams used to made it just before the game to stop finesse players,like it was done to stop Maurys Willis. The same with cutting it or not. Some teams cut the grass short to allow the ball to run freely ( again ,for finesse players). Supposedly the Tigers do the same at CoPa for the benefit of their gap hitters.

The English soccer fields are smaller than the fields in Continental Europe or South America. The dimension of the field are the only one not fixed. Similar to boxing, the ring for Leonard . Durán supposedly was minimal to force the in fight were Durán had the advantage . While is was near the max for Ali-Foreman to give space to Ali

That’s the beauty of the game Kathy. Can’t think of another major sport that does this. Irony…..in a sport where statistics and minutia are worshiped, MLB stats can never be, in their purest sense, comparable. But in the long run, they still hold a degree of comparison. Rich, I like the idea of some kind of electronic strike zone, but when you start messing with shifts, I think that invites too much control. It is up to the hitters to counter. If some of these guys would re-learn the art of bunting, maybe it would discourage some of the ridiculous over shifts. Or they could just chalk in some really big circles out there and make the players stay inside theirs until the pitcher releases the ball……..

I have a simple fix for shifts. You’d be required to have two infielders on either side of secondbase when the pitcher delivers. That’s it. Not nearly as big a change as forcing hitters to re-learn hitting entirely. I don’t really want to see a game of bunts and duck snorts to the opposite field.

Sometimes in certain circumstances a manager will bring an outfielder into the infield. How would that be situation addressed?

That would mean more than two infielders on one side of the diamond. Manager wants to play a rover like in slow pitch softball go ahead.

Marty 2…Regarding deadline deals and the Tigers, if the team cannot remain competitive then by all means the Tigers need to do something with their impending FAs- Price, Soria, Cespedes, Simon and Avila. Unless extensions are worked out, to face not making the playoffs and to hang on to those players would be ludicrous. The Tigers would essentially be giving them away following the season’s end and getting nothing in return.

The only possible return on FAs who depart following the season’s end would be a draft pick for those who rejected a QO. I understand that will be about $17M this year. Realistically, Price is the only one who fits that bill. The others don’t for various reasons.

Add Davis to the FA list.

Dombrowski himself is a free agent after the season.

Sorry for playing ,again , the devil´s advocate ( oh, the redundancy) but Victor hit 300 in 2014 and the shift is on for him once and again. I would like to see players hitting over the shift

Victor is one of the greatest hitters of our time. Not a good example.

Rondon can’t get it done.

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