Saturday’s lineups: Tigers at Jays

Rogers 001

The Tigers saw Marcus Stroman in Spring Training, and they rocked him for seven runs on six hits in just a third of an inning at Joker Marchant Stadium. He has progressed a little bit since then, and coming off a Friday night of R.A. Dickey knuckleballs, his mid-90s fastball is going to be a major adjustment for Tigers hitters.

That said, there’s an interesting split going on with the right-handed Stroman: Right-handed hitters are batting .291 off Stroman, while he’s holding left-handed batters to a .207 clip. The difference in on-base percentage, however, is way smaller, .308 to .276, but it’s enough of a gap that Bryan Holaday gets a rare start against a right-handed hurler.

Gameday | TV: FS Detroit, MLB.TV | Radio: 97.1 FM, AM 1270, Gameday Audio

TIGERS

  1. Rajai Davis, CF
  2. Ian Kinsler, 2B
  3. Miguel Cabrera, 1B
  4. Victor Martinez, DH
  5. Torii Hunter, RF
  6. J.D. Martinez, LF
  7. Nick Castellanos, 3B
  8. Bryan Holaday, C
  9. Eugenio Suarez, SS

P: Max Scherzer

BLUE JAYS (career numbers off Scherzer)

  1. Jose Reyes, SS (1-for-3, K)
  2. Melky Cabrera, LF (3-for-12, triple, walk, 3 K’s)
  3. Jose Bautista, RF (8-for-14, 4 doubles, HR, 3 walks, K)
  4. Dioner Navarro, C
  5. Colby Rasmus, DH (2-for-7, walk, K)
  6. Juan Francisco, 1B
  7. Munenori Kawasaki, 3B (0-for-2, K)
  8. Ryan Goins, 2B
  9. Anthony Gose, CF (0-for-3, 3 K’s)

P: Marcus Stroman

138 Comments

why is today a day game?

It is the usual time for Toronto on Saturdays as long as I know.

“The Yankees are ready to begin negotiating with Castillo, who worked out at their minor league complex Friday” MLBTR

and play him at 2B?

Look who is near the bottom as CF:

http://t.co/xUEoIfdE7l

They sure did take their time letting us know there are technical difficulties.

Runs should be at a premium today. Should be. Miggy looks absolutely abysmal right now. Every at bat seems to be worse than the previous one.

I know I said about the same on another blog . Ended up taking alot of heat for it,

I would have Carrera in today rather than Torii.

Casty just stood there? 3 called strikes. What was he waiting for?

Two runners on. Kinsler again. Nothing.

Look I know we were told McCarthy for the Yankees was the awesomist but Cleveland certainly not having a problem today

I think it is pretty clear that our hitters are not doing their jobs. Which is to hit all kinds of major league pitching.
Torii is in as much a slump as the rest of the middle of the lineup, why on earth Brad has him hitting after Miggy and Victor with the way they are going, is beyond me.
I have my fingers crossed that one of these three has a good at bat with good results this 2nd time thru.
For those that don’t know, this Strohman kid is the real deal.

Im sure he’s good….astros found him rather easy to score on. But I think we all know a minor league pitcher would probably chew them up

That figures. We know it’s the Tigers hitters. The way to fix that is for DD to trade for a Cy Young pitcher. ………….Wait, already done.

Quickly and quietly they keep going down. 51 pitches through 4

This inning (4th) might well determine the game for Max. These guys can mash.

On the bright side of this game Max looks a whole lot better so far than he did his last outing where there were miraculous plays to keep us in the game. Nothing today is getting smacked too hard. Better job today.

Ya that’s pretty good but if this team that is supposed to be good enough to go to the playoffs and the World Series can’t hit guys with 4+ eras or 3.28 eras how are they supposed to win over top flight pitchers? Kershaw Hernandez, wainwright Cueto?

Cy Scherzer cannot give up even one run or the game is lost.

A hit? A hit! Two runs! It must have been a very good double for Miggy to score all the way from first base.

Good enough for Victor to reach 2b with the ball in LF

3 good hitter, one struggling .Two just above average, two rookies , an automatic out and Boesch/Shelton 2.0 . They need to add a bat and for some reason still waiting to do a move

Good pitching always beats good hitting

Bad habit. Allowing other team to score after your team scores.

Tigers are 54-3 this season when leading after 7 innings.Gameday

Seriously people stop hitting the balls to Kawasaki……geez

Not sure how that is possible considering we have Nathan closing.
Better get EZ into this game for “D”.
Calling our lineup “hitters” is a contradiction in terms. They are bloody awful.
To not give this starting staff 4 runs a game is criminal.
ET is absolutely correct.

They have been pulling off and rolling over to the left side all week. it is very predictable. They are not letting the ball get deep and taking if back up the middle.
.
— Bob

Rajai still in CF—Brad wants JD to hit again I guess before he takes him out. I wouldn’t

GK-c’mon tell me the truth—you gotta be luvin’ this ump!!

11K. He needs one more.

Biggest decision of the day coming up for Brad (particularly if we don’t score a couple). Leave Max in? Or bring Joe Blow?

I’m leaving in Max for the 9th.

For sure.

But unfortunately neither one of us is Brad Ausmus

Sorry Miggy you didn’t have a beef there, however VMart certianly did.

Nathan is coming in. I would have left Max in too. As Kathy says: Light a candle.
.
— Bob

4th time through the order. Won’t be easy.

Never mind.

Nathan? after last nigh long inning?

Crazy to throw Nathan. It’s the Ace’s game. If Nathan were to blow it it would be completely demoralizng

I think the ump has had a fair strike zone today. I don’t care if the zone is tight or large as long as it is consistent and fair.

Really he’s bringing joe in?

No mater what happens, taking out Scherzer was OK but Soria is a loser too and he is rested

I don’t think he shoulda taken him out but I agree Soria better choice….Nathans threw a billion pitches last night. No matter how this turns out another stupid Ausmus decision

closer not loser. sorry. Clicked post while editing

This is bloody unreal. Right on cue and now Nathan won’t be able to throw strikes.
This is a completely and utterly stupid decision by Ausmus. I’m ashamed of him.

Just think Dan he will be closing out the games in October . What a mess this is.

I hope that challenge is just to allow Soria to warm up because Reyes was safe

Oh, man This is torture.

The only question that remains now is do they score 1 or more than 1.
Max was throwing the ball the best he has all season and the Jays were very uncomfortable.

We mut trust in Joe.

must.

Putting the winning run on base? another page torn off the book

The Jays have hit 3 fly balls to RF the last 2 days off Nathan that were as close to HRs as you could get–two of them fair.
Bad enough the team can’t hit. Now the manager can’t seem to manage.

Joe Nathan is now 24/30 in save chances this season

I just can’t get over this, sorry Bloggers. Why would you risk Max’s effort? Why not have Max be responsible if things go awry.
Nathan is not even paying attention to runners either

Ausmus makes more dumb moves than Leyland could ever dream of. Rod just said they gotta get someone up in the pen now…why the hell wasn’t someone up before that? He’s just not a good manager at least not yet. I don’t understand the decisions.

Time to face reality. Nathan is not going to become the guy you thought he would be—not this year. He doesn’nt have the ability and now has zero confidence.

If Joe pitches more than 20 pitches on one day, he can’t close the next day.

walk him. You lose with the runners at 3b

Brad should have the guts to walk out there and pull Nathan

Time to discover an injury to avoid him the embarrassment of being demoted

Sorry Brad. You are too late. Rome has already burned to the ground.
.
— Bob

30 pitches and he’s toast. Not the old Joe Nathan. He might be good some nights, and not so good other nights. However, we won last night because their lights out closer blew up.

58 pitches in 16 hours

Ryan Field:
Joe Nathan threw roughly a quarter of the amount of pitches Max Scherzer threw, but in a third of an inning. Yikes. #Tigers

too many for Joe.

Just not fair to treat Max like that. The excuses will pour out now, stuff like Mas was done and tired etc. He was throwing 97 for bloody sakes

I want him to be good but he’s just not good enough. ..how can you continue to run him out there in good conscience?

Usually, you bunt here but do you want to play for one run, on the road ?

Take at least one

Brad needs to try someone else as the closer.

They have to put Joe on a pitch count. His arm is toast. Good every once in a while.

Awesome now Soria is hurt…….damn terrific

Soria is hurt.

Kinda thinking Andrew Miller would look good in our uniform eh?
Or Tony Sipp or Bastardo.
If Joba is able to hold these guys then it will end with Coke.
Brad could have run EZ 1st then bunted. Or run him with Holaday up. Too little too late.

ABC Tom Leyden
FS Detroit cameras catch Soria massaging his lower left back and side in dugout after he was removed from gam

How did Soria get hurt? Did Joe “Gilhouly” him to keep him from taking his closer’s job. (tough in cheek, of course)
.
— Bob

Soria leaves the game might be hurt . Almost hard to think of all the pens problems.
I would like to hear DD talk about the pen and his plans to fix it .

What a joke. This is a bad team right now. Anyone else noticing that Joba is starting leak oil now too. This pen is like playing Scrabble with X’s, Z’s, Q’s, and no U’s!!!!!!
.
— Bob

If I were to put Joe on a pitch count in the 9th inning it would be zero.
Time for him to accept whatever he deserves.

Hope you’re happy Ausmus your just not good

DD; “I have high hopes for this bullpen. I had a dream a month ago that everything very nicely fell into its proper place for all of these talented men we have out there. It’s not inconceivable that we can all pull together as a team and win every game here on out one to nothing. With the quality of our starters and our hopes and dreams that will materialize with our relievers all we need is one of our hitters to knock one out of the park and we’ll make Mr. Illitch a happy billionaire.”

Bob–I hear ya’. Throwing sliders perpetually in the 9th inning (or 10th!) is not the same as the 7th or 8th. You just sit on it and send it the other way.
The closer role is now officially up for grabs.
Nathan can’t
Soria unable
Joba unsuitable
Next in line is …………………Phil Coke.

It’s Ausmus’s job to make the decisions and he has continually shown he just can’t make the big decisions. I’m tired of hearing Joe has to be the closer why? They kicked Valverde out of town for not failing as much as this? I’m tired of hearing he has a pedigree and a track record, well he’s not living up to it and if DD or Ausmiiss (intentionally spelled like that) don’t have the balls to make the tough decision then have some self respect and quit because your making a fool out of yourself.

Jose available? Doesn’t matter which one–Veras? Valverde? Feliciano?

I think we now see why Max didn’t extend.

I don’t why?

Cmo doesn’t even believe the line crap Ausmus just tried to feed us. ” max’s tank was empty” .

It feels like taking something precious, something that you love,and throwing it in the garbage can,

I knew we would hear that. Unimpressive response. Would much rather have heard that he was thinking that Joe would fulfill his role that it would be good for everyone to feel optimistic thereafter. Or that he was a bit unsure and that I guess I made a mistake.

As a Tiger starter–what do you have to look forward to? Your hitters? Your defense? Your bullpen? Your manager?
They are the last bastion of respectability for this ball club. We’re better off playing inter-league in NL parks where they can effect some offense themselves.

Since Trevor Thompson threw Brad some softballs, I’m still waiting for the explanation of how the 9th was handled. I guess the real reporters will have to find out for us.
Until then, no comment, other than that Brad is doing the exact same things Leyland did so don’t even go there.

Sorry he often let JV stay out there for 120-130 pitches if he was still throwing well, but JV was a bulldog….and if Max did say he needed to come out what does that say about him he shoulda begged to go back out. Not even the analysts who try and sugarcoat things think Max didn’t maxed out! Leylands Ace rarely came out at 106.

No Gk, Leyland pulled Max for the same reason; Max saying he was done. JV has nothing to do with it.

I thought we were talking about Leyland and pulling in general. But guess what if Max has to continually be done after 106 he’s not the ace he thinks he is. By the way he wasn’t exactly convincing in his “I was done not going to play second guess the manager”. I don’t think in this case he was done.

Yes. Game 2. Everyone remembers that. It shouldn’t be about Leyland vs Ausmus beause it is a pointless debate. These manager all seem to be cardboard cut outs of each other. Ausmus needs to be judged on his decisions. And IMO, not leaving Max in to start the 9th was not a good decision. Using Joe as the closer was not a bad decision, all managers are going to do the same thing. Should Joe still be the closer …. well that is another debate altogether.
.
— Bob

I quote “he can’t say he pitched bad”. Really what first you call what you did? “It’s not going to ruin my day”. Glad you think you weren’t bad again and I’m sure your content with $67000 dollars you made today without feeling like you sucked!

The only thing I have a problem with is why Soria wasn’t used to close. Max said he was done. Well, that’s debateable, but Joe pitched last night and we all know his sorry self can’t throw 2 nights in a row. Who knows if Soria would have been hurt if he had come out earlier.

Nathan threw what, 58 pitches in two days to record 4 outs? That’s ridiculous.

My first thought too. Did not warm up enough

Okay, so we find out that $cherzer was “done” at 106 stress free pitches. How about the manager says “No you’re not done. The team needs you. Get back out there.”
I’ve had it with Money Man $cherzer. He doesn’t finish the job at hand. Would your boss let you off an hour early because you were “done?”

Right on, Rich.

Totally agree …….you think your deserving of being the second highest paid pitcher in baseball act like one….. But I still don’t think he was done.

These starters nowadays are coddled. Can you imagine Jack Morris saying he was done after 106 pitches in a 2-1 game? The dude went 10 innings of Game 7 in a WS. They are worried about their precious ERA and WHIP stats because that is what is going to get them the big buck$.
.
— Bob

For some of them, it’s all about the money.. Not all, just some.

If it were Game 7 in October, Max would have been back. Come on guys, it is August. Nathan or Soria needs to close that one out (I will buy the argument that Soria was a better choice after how much Nathan threw on Fri). But Scherezer throws 8 innings with 1 run and you are upset with him????

Here’s the other thing Max is all in to sabermatrics and not into the “win” where as you will here the bulldog aces say they do care they want the Win. Maybe Max is just worried about his stats and not quite as concerned about the team? Might be unfair but if that’s his attitude it makes you wonder. I’m not a JV fan but he never would of come out of the game and from what I understand Price wouldn’t either.

Bullshit. Max is a great teamate, and is an ace that wants to win. You guys are not right.

On twitter Jonesy talked to Max after the 7th and Brad shook Max’s hand after the 8th. OK. The part I don’t understand is why they threw Joe out there. Brad has a bench coach and a pitching coach to help him. They have to do something about Nathan.

There is some thought out there that Scherzer said he was done in order to cover Brad’s ass. Sorry, I don’t read minds. Max said what he said and that’s what I have to go on.
And I’m not impressed with Brad for the sole reason that he’s doing the same things any manager would do. Same guidebook. I thought these younger guys would see things differently. Unless Brad is taking his cue from Lamont………….(eerie music in background and the sound of Leyland’s evil laughter)

So, guys and gals, tell us how you really feel. Simply put, the closer role is the most exaggerated role in baseball and the save is a dumb stat. Sorry, Mariano, and other great ones. Each game presents different situations and opportunities. As a manager, I go with my best pitcher for that moment. There is no such thing as a save opportunity. It’s called a one run lead and I want the best I have to get me three outs.
Given that, Brad might have gone with Al again, or whomever. You needed a strikethrower for the top of the order, and that would have been Soria. Another occasion might call for a good Nathan slider, if such a pitch still exists. If you define closer in today’s game, Joe does not fit the mold. He does not have shutdown stuff any more. His control is suspect. I blame this one on Brad for being glued to this nonsense of a save opportunity. And if Max was out of gas, his contract demands just went South. In all of this diatribe, our true worries come back to the lack of professional hitting.
1. Eight solid innings from the Mad Man.
2. Clutch pitching from Soria to clean up Joe’s mess.
3. VMart steps to the plate, the only one to make such an appearance.

Reporter: “You’re still comfortable in sticking with (Joe Nathan) in the ninth inning at this point?” Brad Ausmus: “Yep.”

I know there are 10 MM plus reasons for that but they will pay 6 MM for not playing to another:sunk costs. Move him to 6 or 7 before he is ran out of the town by the starters

That is why I have never seen any any problem with Scherzer leaving the team and one more reason to like the addition of Price.

And rather have Verlander in an off year than him. BTW: he is coming back to his old self

It is better to be healthy by mid November

Tony Paul @TonyPaul1984:
#Tigers closer Joe Nathan on the blown save: “It’s not gonna ruin my day.”

Hard to believe he would say something so selfish. I lost respect for Nathan the moment he tried to use the “Dead Arm” angle in spring training. And more after the throw Castellanos under the bus incident.

This quote describes the very reason he is not a closer any more.
Any closer worth his salt would actually “feel” the opposite. This is not a speeding ticket or a flight delay. This is a pennant race, high salaries and deserving fans.
I’ve had enough of Nathan.
Place this guy on waivers and trade him for a left-handed arm–any left-handed arm.

He ruined my day. I’ll bet he ruined Max’s and a few other team-mates as well

Well if Joe said that, it would be grounds enough by itself to demote him to the front half of the BP and let him pitch his way back to closer. Didn’t see the game today but seeing how utterly demoralizing this loss was (not unlike many of the others this year), with Max at 106 pitches I would have asked him to go out in the 9th, and to first try and get one out. I would think he’d have 9 pitches left in the tank anyway. As soon as a runner got on, take him out so he couldn’t lose the game. Fair enough compromise? Maybe he gets 2-3 outs throwing less than 9 pitches. Take him out at 115. You’ve got to at least try.

Well giants aren’t helping I pus out KC looks like it will be 1 1/2 back. Awesome joe glad your day isn’t ruined

Very good point Marty. No way I find fault with Max there. People can invent anything they want–the guy just pitched his a$$ off for his team.
Nathan did say that-check out Blessyouboys.com
Nathan has to leave. No other scenario will work.
As much as I think that mangement has missed the boat and shoved Coke down our throats, I was actually thinking he was a better bet than Nathan for the 9th. Not my choice mind you, Max’s game to win or lose was my first choice. Nathan was my last choice after watching him spew last night.
DD is ultimately responsible for the mess we are in.
He should hire a special assistant that specializes in bullpen matters. He is chronically falling short in this regard.

Nathan has worn out his welcome in Detroit . I also assumed he would not be on the mound today . DD has a real mess to figure out and fix the pen . This is not a bullpen that would survive in October . Does he remember Boston last fall ?? Not really sure how long the Tigers can hold down first place .
Unlike some towns Tiger fans know what is going with their club .

No word on Anibal yet. That in itself is not very good news.

I don’t care what Joe Nathan says. His job is to be shaking hands at the end of the game.
Re Scherzer/Ausmus, I felt that THIS particular game was a time when Max needed to go back out for the ninth inning. He fired his last bullets at the 7-8-9 hitters in the eighth then left it to the pen. Not the situation for that, not on this day. I saw it as a pivotal game in this season. They can save it for an October that might not come if they don’t start winning games like this.
I’m glad we traded for David Price.

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