Sunday’s lineups: Tigers vs. Red Sox

Jim Leyland must be getting better at convincing Prince Fielder to take a day at DH. He’s got him there again for the second consecutive Sunday. Victor Martinez gets first base again. Bryan Holaday gives Brayan Pena a spell behind the plate.

TIGERS (career numbers off Doubront)

  1. Austin Jackson, CF
  2. Torii Hunter, RF (1-for-1)
  3. Miguel Cabrera, 3B (0-for-3, 2 K’s)
  4. Prince Fielder, DH (0-for-3)
  5. Victor Martinez, 1B
  6. Jhonny Peralta, SS (0-for-1, walk, K)
  7. Omar Infante, 2B (2-for-6, K)
  8. Avisail Garcia, LF
  9. Bryan Holaday, C

P: Justin Verlander

RED SOX (career numbers off Verlander)

  1. Jacoby Ellsbury, CF (4-for-20, 2 walks, K)
  2. Shane Victorino, RF (0-for-3, 2 K’s)
  3. Dustin Pedroia, 2B (0-for-16, 3 K’s)
  4. David Ortiz, DH (8-for-24, 2 HR, 3 walks, 7 K’s)
  5. Mike Napoli, 1B (6-for-20, HR, 5 walks, 5 K’s)
  6. Jonny Gomes, LF (0-for-6, 3 walks, 2 K’s)
  7. Stephen Drew, SS (2-for-13, 9 K’s)
  8. Ryan Lavarnway, C
  9. Jose Iglesias, 3B

P: Felix Doubront

 

128 Comments

Doubront was tough on us last year. We have done somewhat better against lefties this season. Felix versus our new young inexperienced line up. Can we get him this time?? Go Tigers!!!!

Prince is fortunate he has not been asked to take a few days off. He has become dead weight lately. I’m sure he is completely unapproachable in terms of accepting any instruction or advice from Lloyd. To be effective, Prince needs to pull the ball. He is not going to hit the ball over the wall into cavernous left-centre and centre.
Comerica is not friendly to long ball hitters but if there is anywhere it might be, it is toward the RF line. I haven’t seen Prince hit one in that area for quite awhile now.
He seems to be getting down on himself and has lost his swag.

Exactly and hes a lefty power hitter so you would think he would be smoking em out to RF.

His BB/9 is a legit matter of concern

2-0…..now the key is Verlander…..control and low pitch count

Drew is among the most disciplined hitters in MLB

scratch that comment about JV……already 35 pitches and a run allowed after a walk

JV just doesn’t look right to me at all.
Tigers did what they do often when they have a guy on the ropes. They let him rest and get back up.
Fielder gets credit but he should have been able to do more damage than that.

Infante (groan)…..but what a Holaday! 1st AB, 1st hit, 1st run.

holy cow VMart looked like a DH playing 1st base right there. oh wait…

Verlander just doesn’t know how to put anybody away anymore. Defense certianly hasn’t helped this inning but JV just doesn’t have it….got his contract guess he just doesn’t care anymore

We’ll be very fortunate if we end up in the win column today. JV hasn’t given up a bomb yet and the Sox are gonna get at least one off him.

Good test for Verlander today. Let’s see if he can get started putting some zeroes on the board in the fourth.

JV lucky to get to 5 or 6 innings today…..Is Smyly able to pitch and for how long?…..Infante bad base running cost a run and fielding cost JV another batter to pitch to…..not a really good day so far

Quickly and quietly. …….there in the bottom of the 3rd for Miguel, Fielder and Victor. …

Verlander Ughhhhhhhh

JV looks sooooooooo bad right now.

Aa bad JV and a bad D today. Actually should not have been charged with an earned run though. Clearly an error by Peralta.

Boston has worked JV over today. His pitch count throughout his career has been his nemesis.

lead off walk comes around to score. well done justin.

Omar didn’t get enough sleep last night.
What an ugly game. Hope we don’t hear any post game excuses.

Verlander is horrible and is probably our #5 pitcher right now. Mr too big for his britches is hopefully getting a good taste of humility. And Jim and Dan said Reed is warming up. ..why he is still up here is beyond me. Throwing this one away I guess.
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now more quick easy outs by Tigers hitters.

S Drew jacked one up today now…..SO it’s time to get a run or two in. C’mon guys.

Oh, Geez, bases juiced. ‘C’mon, Torii.

Close, but not close enough.

Way to let him off the hook. …clutch hitting.

A mediocre outfielder might not have caught that. He gave it a good ride.

not to mention —- i think shane might have hurt himself on that….like he hit his shoulder pretty hard. with that said — unclutch by torii.

JV HAS lost just enough off his fastball to matter. No question.
He does need to come out and probably before this inning is over now.
It takes a lot for JV to be humble GK. Don’t think you’re gonna see that.
He is far more likely to throw one of his arrogant fastballs and see it leave the yard.
This is not his day and not his time right now.

98 today…..

MPH. today IMO his problem was location especially the first pitch

infield like a sifter

That’s my point Evan. Just enough to matter. JV can’t dial up 100 any longer. His average fastball has dropped too. 98 is impressive but for Verlander–it’s a downgrade because the movement is limited on it. I totally agree about location. He is up with hard stuff too much. Totally different than Max.
Looks like Boesch is back and DHing for us today.
Does Fielder even look like he gives a fudge?
Even the announcers barely show any interest or positivity when Princess is up.

ok fair enough Dan! lol @ princess tho. And that was a very athletic play at 1st by victor….ingesq.

A professional 1B there

sure is.

Anyone agree that fifteen to twenty left handed relief pitchers in the AL owe Prince for having jobs.

Yeah…The irony is he is hitting about .330 against them this year.

Can this team be any more frustrating? AJ is supposed to be their fastest runner? Miggy singles and AJ manages to get to 2nd. Princess finally gets a hit and AJ scrambles all the way to 3rd. Bases loaded. Then 3 in a row flub the dub. If it hadn’t been a HBP ther would be no tie game.

GARCIA!

Huge break for the Tigers here. Can we take advantage?
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— Bob

lol @ pedroia getting pulled off the bag…..guys like 5’7″

What a game this has turned into!

bases loaded no outs….can we score here? hopefully a HBP is in our future so we can get a run. ugh.

271 with bases loaded.

5th in runs scored

Prince makes ‘em pay.

there it is! PRINCE FINALLY SNAPPED OUTTA IT!

c’mon VMart – thought you had somethin goin?

Jason, if you get to talk to the Skipper be sure to ask him if he trusts more than two guys in his bullpen. Did anyone else notice the closer had to put out the fire in the eighth?? This will not work long term.

I can’t watch.

Thank you, Torii!

Hey Tori. A hard fought win.
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Go Tigers.
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— Bob

Hunter looked like his old self. Clutch RBI sac fly and sweet catch to end the game.

Gotta love when you win one that you shouldn’t have.
Unbelievably bad call by that ump.
Garcia might have had 3 homers today if he was to be playing at Yankee stadium!
Sorry about the princess thing. I really shouldn’t have said that on many levels.

Before I forget, shock of all shocks, I agreed with Jim on his assesment re the dropped ball in the OF. When I first saw it, I thought it was an error. Everyone else says he caught it.

now it is time to even up that series with the LAA. Hopefully those Orioles can take a few from the Tribe!

Angels pitchers have been very poor this year. Starters even worse than the pen.

that + us being at home….could be good to keep this offense going. maybe even get prince and vmart going before we leave home – that’d be nice!

JV 112 pitches, 69 for strikes…..1.333 Ks to BB ratio….not many 1st pitch strikes…. much to improve on…

2 whip today….yucky

oh and thankyou, Mike DiMuro. before i forget.

Don’t me ti feel sorry for the red soxs or Nava in Boston we got screwed over about 50 times last year. Too bad

You call that winning ugly but we’ll take it. The Nava “dropped ball” looked like it could have been called either way when I saw several re-plays. Hard to tell. The hitting and the SP’s were supposed to be their strong points but Smyly and Benoit took the day.

Oh, and I hope they don’t have to playToronto too soon.

July the first to 4th.
11 consecutive W, they will regress. Playing hot teams this years has been good for the Tigers

I dread hot clubs. My impression of the Tigers versus teams on a roll is pretty negative. But, I’ll go with your perspective since you have the stat thing pretty locked up.

Can you imagine Jose VV closing the game today? It would have been a nightmare. As things go, the Tigers do win one they should never have won. Our Ace has become a very so so pitcher; say what you want, but he hasn’t recouped from the Middleton diss. He’s used to being the Big Man around, and the Bikini Bombshell dumps for all the other Big Boys. I really don’t think it’s anything physical with his arm, but he’s not mentally tough right now; command is way off. Some one needs to sit him down, and talk some sense in to his head. Highest ERA since the Rookie season, I believe.
1. Ajax is on base 5 out of 5 plate appearances today. That’s why we played so poorly while he was on the DL.
2. Victor’s great defensive play. Pure instinct made him flip the ball without looking. Great momentum changer. No offense today, but played the 1 bag very well.
3. Drew’s routine performance. We just don’t know how lucky we are to have this guy in the pen. Routine for him is becoming very good.

Kudos to Torii, Miguel, Ajax, and even the Prince finally woke up from his spell. Again, we got the breaks, but the Red Sox got them last year. That’s the fun in baseball. Guys, enjoy your day off with family. Bring on the Halos. Good night all!

No, he was worse in 2008. ( only a couple of games in 2005) 4.84. Today, 3.90
Before today his WHIP was 1.348, it was 1.38 in 2006 and 1.403 in 2008.
His FIP is 2.81.( or was not sure is fangraphs is already updated) good for 12 th in MLB
Babip against him: 344. third in MLB for 261 BAA.There is good deal of bad luck there .
His K/9 10.21 is fourth in MLB but his K/BB 3.14 is worse than Porcello´s good for 40 th.

Leyland on Verlander: “The good thing about it is it’s not stuff and he’s healthy. We can fix the other things.” Other things? mechanics? concentration? is he out of rhythm like in 2008 ?

Yeah, the Princess thing was cold. You really think he is not trying? And Justin doesn’t care now because he got a big contract? Well, it looks like DD stepped in on the Valverde situation. My good friend is a White Sox fan. I wonder what kind of comments are on that blog. 3 out of 4 from Boston. Go Tigers!

Hitters go through slumps. We are not use to JV slumping. I think his 3rd inning affected his performance the rest of his day. He should of had a 1-2-3 inning and a much less pitch count. He would have gone six or maybe 7 innings giving up 3 runs. Drew gave another great effort.

i thought today there were arguably between 1-3 outs the infield defense could have made if they were more rangey and heads up. Is what it is – no biggie.

By the way, Brian Holaday had a very good game today.

Good series by the Tigers all around. The pitching, for the most part, wasn’t bad, and the offense looked like they should. We’ll take it three of four anyday.

http://minoringinbaseball.com/

Well if JV isn’t hut….I guess he just stinks then and doesn’t seem to be able to fix it. Not sure I think that is great news.

How about this …. did Verlander throwing 120+ pitches for 3 years straight finally take its toll?

probably did. but who knows, as jim price says: “he isn’t from this planet”

Three times in four yeas leader in IP and pitches . Once, 2010 second to Dan Haren. Felix was second or third those years. He is losing speed too.

so why did we just extend him for so many years and so much money? couldn’t we have traded him for his last year – acquired some decent prospects and a closer? In 2 years from now, a struggling prince and verlander could make the org. quite a joke.

Felix had elbow problems and the Mariners still extended him. It is not that Verlander is done. His peripherals but for the walks remain great.
He has 10 QS , Scherzer 11
His FIP is 7th in the AL and his Siera 10th
4th in SO/9 in the AL
I agree with Mark , a decent defense in the third and he makes the 7th

And other pitchers with track record similar to Verlander have been great after 30..

Prince’s contract is the scary one. The organization will be paying him $24 million when he’s 36 years old. That is another SEVEN years from now.

[shudders] Mike Illitch will be 90. gawd i hope he is still making oddles of money and trying to spend it on the field.

My father in law just turned 90 and is in great shape. Mr. Illitch likes Prince. Prince likes Detroit. How much do (or did) some of these so called CEO’s make (or stole)? I do think Justin’s concentration is lacking. What is DD’s next move going to be? I hope the manager can handle all these great players. Do you think he and Verlander get along? Go Tigers!

Verlander is far from done. He is not pitching or thinking well right now. But, he is such a competitive and determined person that he will make himself figure this out.
The arrogant fastball tends to get in the way of his thinking as he has always been able to pump it by even suspetcting hitters in big situations.
The fact is that his curve ball is not buckling knees like it used to – combine that with 2 mph off his fastball and you have a situation where hitters becomes slightly more advantaged than they used to be.
Like I say, he will figure this out.

I think his competitiveness is what sometimes makes him fastball happy in some situations. His command has been off a little and the curve has been as well. He is pitching better than that April stretch. I think he does lose focus due to umpires and defensive miscues that happened in his last two games. He did keep his team in the game yesterday.

I think so too. He does get a little bent out of shape when things he perceives are out of his control go awry.
Avila’s hitting continues at Toledo.

Faulk and Hoffman will be the next lefties in our bullpen. The question is when. Neither one of them is on the 40 man roster.

what percent is to blame for each:
Physical (e.g. fastball speed doesn’t touch 100 anymore), Mental (e.g. toughness, art of pitching), or command (e.g. location of fastball)?

I’d rate the command of the fastball as the most important, the velocity 2nd and the mental last. Hart to ascribe proportions to them for me though.

Agreed on the command. If you wanted to have a bet with Justin i am sure he could top 100 mph! Yes he gets upset and when he wanted to have a little fun with his manager he got scolded.

hmmmm yea i am going with command 70%, physical 20% and mental 10%. The mental is more of a recent thing…what this means is that it wasn’t confidence until recently.

how do you fix command? grip? jeff jones! Tape?

You need someone who knows what he is doing to determine the causal problem(s). Tape helps becaues you can see things slowed down, see what was happening before as opposed to now and actually show the pitcher what is going on so he can better focus on needed adjustments. Physical reasons for the command issue vary and are case by case. It can be release point, balance, rushing, yanking the ball, throwing across the body, overthrowing, landing on the front foot heel, overstriding, etc. I’m sure you get the picture.

From BYB: The Tigers have allowed more hits on grounders than any team in MLB.

If the Tigers were to offer Avisail Garcia to the Twins for Glen Perkins, would they take it?

0.802 WHIP perkins has this year lookin pretty good

JV is out of sync right now and we are right to be worried, but I believe wrong to think he is not trying – that man is a competitor and surely will figure it out. Yes, his ego is large and it does seem he is more concerned at times with throwing it hard than pitching but he’ll figure it out. What a terrific play by VMart – gotta love that as one of the plays of the year. That catch by Torii is what I have been waiting to see – terrific hustle. Hard to believe the whole Valverde thing – gone, back, gone again. At least they did something before it got too far out of hand. I see Berry is gone from the Royals. Read an article from a local source saying he was sulking way too much in Toledo about being demoted, not sure if that is true or not. Saw Avila yesterday at a Hens game – yet to get a hit there so that is of a big concern. He was just dh yesterday so did not see him catching. Smyly continues to be a bright spot and Benoit did well on Sunday. Glad they won that game when they likely should not have.

I seriously doubt anyone will claim Papa Grande on waivers. A confirmation of what many people said when DD re-started the whol fiasco in order to cover his arse and placate his manager.

Papa Grande was one of the best closers in MLB for many years and we had almost 3 years of his expertise Almost every closer has their quirks and he certainly had a few memorable ones. I wish him the very best because he was one of the best.

Keep in mind that after Valverde clears waivers, he’s likely to accept an assignment at Toledo. Managment will still be tempted to try him one more time.

Valverde may right his ship and deserve another trial before it’s too late. Rumors are running on a couple of Marlins (DD’s fav trading partner) Steve Cishek & Ryan Webb). Cicsek will be expensive to get as he has a “hot streak” going. Let’s hope Max doesn’t try to WOW the crowd at the A/s game like JV did last year. Come to think of it, JV hasn’t been the same since that game.

I agree with that, and I think Max will stay within himself

apologies for typo, Cishek. Our west coast nemisis in town, Angels for 3 games. will be lucky to take 1 game even though they have a 3 game losing streak going.

Hey i hope Max doesn’t do so awesome at the ASG. For that matter — if he gets lit up once or twice this year that wouldn’t hurt our chances at resigning him either. He’s playing his way right outta town – in a good way (for him).
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With that said: are we there yet? my internal tigers-clock says the game should start like now.

Getting lit up at the All Star game would not lesson his value and would make it move difficult in the World Series when the Tigers get there.

If you can only keep one between AJ and Max, who is easier to replace?

good point and good question. I think max’s delivery ends up making him very risky to pay a lot of money for a long time. So with that logic i hope he does this well and signs with the yankees for a long time 20M+.

A position player is usually easier to substitute. Tyler Collins is supposed to be his replacement. But Sanchez was signed based, we were told, on the assumption that Scherzer will be gone. So he was already replaced.

Collins is a corner outfielder/ DH type. Daniel Fields and Austin Shotts are the two highest ranking CF prospects.

Shotts. True.

Marmol DFA.
Gregg would be a good target .

Cafardo said that Cishek could be a bad fit for Boston and Detroit not used to be under the microscope.
But Beck “:The Tigers had a scout at this weekend’s Marlins-Giants series at San Francisco. Detroit has been rumored to have interest in Miami relievers who could hit the trade market next month, such as closer Steve Cishek and setup man Ryan Webb”

I truly do not understand the angst of fans of the Tigers who constantly worry about player salaries under the premise stars are not affordable. The Tigers are an appreciating asset with a very good annual yield and an estimated worth of $643M. Player expenses are $143M. By comparison our current foes, the Angels have a team value of $718M. Their player expenses are $166M. They als have a nice yield, but with operating costs at a much higher yearly deficit. The issue is not affordability. It is whether the owner wants to put his money on the field like Mr. I and Arte Moreno, or if he wants to pocket the profits like McCourt.

I don’t care about players salaries, but DD use to say the team could only afford two $20 million a year players. They now have three and Max may well hit that figure. One of the reason teams have the minor leagues is to develop players to keep team salaries under control. There is also significant cost if the clubs salaries go past a certain level. I just posed the question to hear opinions.

Lineup: Jackson 8, Hunter 9, Cabrera 5, Fielder 3, Martinez DH, Peralta 6, Infante 4, Garcia 7, Holaday 2. Porcello is starting.
@tigers

If they are going to spend money or give up players I hope they don’t go for a set-up man. We have one and we get another it means two guys have to adjust themselves.
Get a proven closer or go to Smyly/Rondon.

Saw that about the Tigers giving up more ground ball hits than anyone else. Stands to reason. We have Porcello and Fister in the top 4 of the AL. Throw in Sanchez for a few (Scherzer and JV are more fly ball guys) and taking note of the hole between short and 3rd and you will understand that stat.
As stalwart as JP has been that is the one position that could really benefit from a younger guys with speed and range. If I had to lose one guy, next year, between Omar and JP it would be the latter.

Time for Garcia to start finding some gaps.

Marmol was DFA’d. He might be worth a flyer.

He makes Valverde look like Mariano Rivera

True, but he would be low cost, low risk and he is the same guy the Tigers considered acquiring earlier this season. Besides, he is still pretty young and was an AS in 2008. He also had over 30 saves in 2010 and 2011. What’s to lose?

i think alex needs to work on the bat in AAA. if he doesn’t get a hit tonight — it’s a fact he can’t hit ***

got a group of 4-6 fellas come’n over tonight for the game – super excited!

We are lined up to play for the next twenty days. Evan are you ready?? Somewhere between days eight and thirteen the Skipper should be getting some of those days off for the middle infielders, Torii, AJ, and the guy doing the bulk of the catching. Also, coming up during this time we will hopefully get Anibal back. If Alvarez third start goes okay, I think it’s time for Coke to get some time in Toledo so we keep Jose on the A team. Does Alex have to show an improved stick to get back to Detroit??

Except you need to keep Alvarez stretched out in case of injury, spot starting. So he will be back in AAA and hopefully, Coke will be a situational lefty

I’m ready DOK! I do agree with portwinelad that we need Jose stretched out, unless it is thought that Derek Hankins is ready.

Sanchez will go to, rehab assignment. Alvarez will pitch vs Jays.If Sanchez can pitch before friday they can skip Porcello to use him between Scherzer and Verlander to preserve the bullpen and give him a better chance sandwiched between flame throwers

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