Sunday: Tigers at Rangers

Pretty much a regular lineup today. Dirks starts again in place of Berry, batting second. Worth noting that Berry has started once in the past week. Also worth noting that Berry is in an 0-for-10 slump and his batting average has dropped to .274, his lowest average since his second game of the season. Are we seeing Berry’s transition to a bench role, or is that just a casualty of the outfield rotation?

Should be interesting to see how the Tigers approach Yu Darvish in their third meeting. He struck out 10 Tigers over seven innings here at the end of June, but gave up four runs doing it.

TIGERS

  1. Austin Jackson, CF
  2. Andy Dirks, LF
  3. Miguel Cabrera, 3B
  4. Prince Fielder, 1B
  5. Brennan Boesch, RF
  6. Delmon Young, DH
  7. Alex Avila, C
  8. Jhonny Peralta, SS
  9. Omar Infante, 2B

P: Rick Porcello

RANGERS

  1. Ian Kinsler, 2B
  2. Elvis Andrus, SS
  3. Josh Hamilton, CF
  4. Adrian Beltre, 3B
  5. Nelson Cruz, RF
  6. Michael Young, DH
  7. David Murphy, LF
  8. Geovany Soto, C
  9. Mitch Moreland, 1B

P: Yu Darvish

118 Comments

If this were the beginning of the season, I don’t think I would be as nervous as I am. I realize all wins count the same regardless of their timing. Now, however, there is a sense of urgency with the Tigers and I am in full scoreboard-watching mode. The team has played much better of late but has still lost 3 games in the last week, which it could have or should have, won. And Porcello is far from a sure thing today.

I’m fairly certain that the race is going down to the final days, or day. Looking at it that way, there are 7+ weeks to go. We’re 35-21 over two months and pretty much getting it done. It’s a good race.

Didn’t someone on a previous thread say lefties hit Yu harder? If that’s true shocked that dy is in the game.

Lefties are pulling balls into gaps and outta yards against Yu since the ASB.

Young 1-5, Berry 1-3, but obviously the sample sizes are no good in two starts. Berry to sub for Boesch late, like it or not. I think I’d rather have him as a pinch runner. I’m fine with our playoff lineup, as El Tigre calls it.

LHB 258, 5.24 ERA/RHB: 208, 3.65 ERA

Evans said it, Im adding the numbers

Porcello Last 10. 6-2 4.15
12 ER ,22 H, in last 18 inning pitched. With a 6 ERA for last 3 games: 2-1

I’m excited to see Yu tonight – As i have already said he hasn’t done well since the ASB – and this is our 3rd time seeing him…that has to be a GOOD thing….not to mention Yu pitches not as well during the daytime. And furthermore, we have some HOT lefties right now.
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Porcello is the X factor — he’s gotta give us a QUALITY START because our pen is a mess and Yu pitches well with the lead.

Yoenis Cespedes, .306 14 HR 56 RBI 10 for 10 SB
All you folks who wanted to sign him, stand up and take a bow.

Jackson swung at ball 4. Should now be 1-0 tigers

3 outs made by swinging at ball 4. That approach wont work. See last night’s game.
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— Bob

How many strikes did YU throw in that first inning???

Jackson popped out on ball 4- Miggy struck out on ball 4 as well as Fielder. Again Tigers letting him off the hook and having poor at bats. Rod just said Porcello will ave to be on top of hs game….more like he will ave to be perfect because we will have to hear again about how perfect their pitcher is when we all know everyone else has been hitting these pitchers but us!

Beck “100 degrees exactly at Rangers Ballpark as first pitch approaches”, the ball will fly today

For the Rangers anyway….tigers will continue to let another mediocre pitcher look good. Hope I’m wrong but I just have a feeling about this one.

Second inning…Boesch out on a pitch out of the strike zone as well as DY..Avila struck out on a pitch way out of the strike zone.. No excuse just aweful!

Leyland should impose the “take a strike” rule we used in little league.

Yu’s lat several outings

Boston 6.2 innings 11 hits 4bb 6 er
LAA 5 innings 4 hits 6bb 7er
CWS 6.1 innings 8 hits 3 bb 6 runs 5 er
LAA 7 innings 3 hits 4bb 2 er
SEA 6.1 innings 8 hits 4bb 7 er
Oak 7 innings 5 hits 3 bb 3er

Ya Yu is awesome!

Big mistake by Porcello there. Alo I’m not going to make excuses but Porcello is not the low strike so he doesn’t have a rats chance in hell. Ump is making sure of that!

Time to call Below

Big mistake by Boesch! Falling apart at the seems. Can’t hit, can’t pitch and can’t field doesn’t make for a good day and it doesn’t look as though CWS is going to lose. Tigers just playing like they don’t give a crap!

When you don’t have intelligent AB’s on offense, it just spills over into the defense. This game is getting ugly…..5-0. Well Mayo, they sure looked like Little Leaguers in that first inning.

Thus far, this is terrible. Too many mistakes. We all know games like this can well happen. My problem is with the games that got away earlier this week.

We know the Tigers are not quitters. Hopefully, they can come back.

This is a get away game and they are playing like it. Just brutal. Terrible at bats. Throwing and kicking the ball all over the yard. And looking like yet another series lost on the road. I guess they were so excited to play an afternoon game and get to Minnesota even quicker. That is why Thursdays and last night’s game hurt so much. We needed those games.
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Brutal!!!!
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— Bob

Should never have pitched to Hamilton w/ 1st base open.

Prince walks. If they don’t get it going soon there will be no ice cream after the game.

Good one.

Ok, first pitch again.

Yikes. The brutal 6-4-3.

Great at bats with a guy host throwing strikes there by Delmon ,and Brennan! Big league hitters!

Is BB interested in seeing any pitches today? Or last night for that matter.
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And right on cue DY hits into a DP. BB and DY kill a potential rally in 2 pitches. Are you freaking kidding me.
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Our lineup is not even in the same conversation as the Ranger lineup. They do not throw away at bats like we do.
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— Bob

Can’t think of another team that does. It’s uncanny……. or something like that.

6-0. About ready to shut this one off. Must avert eyes….can’t stop watching……….even getting tired of making dumb sarcastic remarks.

Today, an early def replacement of Boesch would be a good thing

Porcello gives up way too many hits Now #1. Part of that is he is a sinkerballer and the defense does not have much range. Stil…

Honest to god Boesch take a freaking pitch or sit down because you after being so god for a month are a waste of space on the bench!

Cannot believe Boesch swung at the FIRST PITCH AGAIN.

JL needs to bench BB right now. 4 straight at bats swinging at the first pitch. Where is the accountablilty Jim? Where I ask?
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Brutal!!!.
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— Bob

Kathy is right:Peralta must be hitting 5th

No need for RP to throw strikes. Ahead 6-3 and hitting well, Rangers probably not interested in walking.

Get Boesch out of the 5 hole please or order him to take a pitch or 2 or you’ll fine him!

Iott: Last 4 AB 4 pitches

Cruz golfs at one way outside the strike zone. Point. Problem is he hit it.

BRennan takes a lot of heat here but he has earned it. I like the kid and I like his potential but if he can’t develop into a good hitter and become remotely sensible in his at bats they should trade him for something useful.
Walking Prince, putting the tying run up to the plate, to get to Boesch is a loud statement about how he is regarded by the opposition.
This no time for this kind of behaviour. We can’t have 2 guys screwing up the lineup at this stage of the game.
I was one of those folks who thought Cespedes was a guy we should seriously consider. It’s not often you find a player who can all the important things on a ballfield. Instead we have DY, Home Run Baker and Ryan Raburn.
Oops!

Honestly, I can’t believe we’re still in this one. Must be so hot on the field that the Ranger’s have lost interest in adding on any more runs. It’s time to make a move for the big come back. Please make Darvish work guys.

Well… Darvish is #2(?) in MLB in Ks per 9 innings. So, he has good stuff. His control is an issue. Thus, I cannot rationalize BB’s pitch selection and first pitch swinging agaist Darvish.

Avg against Yu with first pitch: 421.For the season ,all palyers

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=darviyu01&year=&t=p

Interesting stat, but Yu hurts himself if the hitter allows him the opportuniy.

With 0-1 , the avg is 409.

Yu can be a base-on-balls machine, but hitters need to be patient with him to take advantage of his control issues. Gk posted some info on this post which seems to back me up.

And with Yu’s stuff, if one does not give him an opportunity to destroy himsellf he will destroy the hitter.

That’s exactly why Cabrera wasn’t sent home last night is because his leg nd ankle are black and blue. Does anyone remember a few years ago when Magglio was sent home with a sore ankle and was gone and really was never the same guy after that.

Geez… Miggy is a BEAST. Hope he is ok. That looked like it hurt.

If his leg is black and blue from ankle to almost the knee…it has to be killing him.
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Bad AB by Biggy!

Boesch and Young should have been expendable prior to the trade deadline! They both are undisciplined and both have the GIDP syndrome. Porcello is not ready for prime time, I would seriously look for a trade this winter. Rangers have the Tigs number, for sure. Much more talent up and down the lineup both offensively and defensively. Another lost series that could have been theirs.

The GIDP syndrome affects many power guys, because they hit the ball hard and frequently do not run well (see Cabrera and Fielder). A clean K is often preferable in those circs.

Villareal….oh boy! Pretty ugly! 1 st to 3rd on a wild pitch!

There are weaknesses all over this roster. We don’t really have enough guys that are able to perform better in critical situations. You need more than two in your lineup.
BV has shown us (and hopefully Leyland) that he is not a mission critical reliever. He utterly collapses when he needs to be able to become unhittable.
Villarael pays the price of having a small body and a big man’s arm. He simply is forced to over throw rather than fluidly command.
It is natural to feel down when losing and like the ship is sinking, but we have some very worrisome things going on. The inability to play with the better teams is glaring.
And we know help ain’t coming. Leyland “doesn’t like expanded rosters” citing too many choices.
So we aren’t likely to be saved by some fresh faces, not that you would want to count on unliklihood.
Personally I want to see how Nick, Avisail, Rondon and Romero respond to the bigs
If this team falls apart.

BV has been good most of the season. He failed last night so he throws him there again

So JL finally brings in Downs because he HAS to? Isn’t that what Rod said? JV should have brought him in first. Downs gets the job done. He doesn’t however have the coveted 98 mph heater. Oh well.

Brayan has been lights out this season and is a potential closer. He screwed up. It just cannot become a habit.

Some players do not perform well under elevated pressure. BV, at least thus far in his career, has shown that tendency. We saw this last year too. Coming out of spring training. He has done very well but it is good to know where his limits are.
This club looks dysfunctional again.

There is no reason to keep Cabrera there

It wont happen , but it is time to try with Peralta in the 5th spot

That game and series pretty much sucked in virtually every aspect New day tomorrow.

This last week is exactly why this team isn’t going anywhere! But today was a complete embarrassment! Texas pitching HAS BEEN AWEFUL and they made them look great! Love all the wild pitches an errors today….quit a big league them we got here..they count beat the mud hens right now and they are aweful!

Well, I just walked in the door from work and saw the score in the 9th. As far am is I’m concerned, this team is toast. Not going to the playoffs. You can put it on the board, Yes, yes. The series with NY pretty much left me with no hope. Sorry, hope I’m wrong, but it would take a miracle at this point.

You? Of all people… You sound like any of my ex-wives.

Boy in that interview the skipper didn’t look good! I don’t know if he’s sick or if it was the heat but I am actually a little worried about him.
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Funny how rangers pitching is only good against the tigers, but the skip was right they just played aweful in every aspect of the game and they should be hanging their heads today ith embarrassment!

Good evening. Delmon Young and Brandon Boesch are RALLY KILLERS! That is pure and simple. Enough of this pampering of Boesch, and patience with Young. Bench them both! It could not be any worse I’m sure. This game was a royal embarrassment. So many on this blog question taking Brennon out for defensive replacement in the later innings. Well DUH! He has a decent arm, but is no more than an average defender. Put Delmon on the waiver wires, and offer incentives for the team that claims him. This game was an insult to Tiger fans. Even the big boys rolled over for Yu. A history of walks, but nooooo! Go for that first pitch or swing at ball four all night long. At least Jackson was overpowered by a decent fastball. Did I say that this was a nauseating game? Kathy, you are right; we don’t have the passion or patience to make the playoffs. And we have the bigger stars. So little to like about the game, so I’ll squeeze out three things just to keep my string going:
1. Downs 1 and 2/3 innings. The only pitcher for the Tigers to do the job this afternoon. He’s wiley enough to do an above average job when called upon.
2. Even though Alex struck out twice, he worked the Rangers for two more walks. Plate discipline is coming around.
3. Pinch hitting for Boesch in the eighth with Baker. He did swing and miss the first pitch, but Boesch couldn’t have done diddly squat in that AB. The only downside was that he should have pinch hit for Delmon too.

That was puny, but that’s all I liked. Again, I’m not discounting Miggy; that’s a given.
His lack of range was really obvious tonight, part from the ankle, but also from his limitations. When Porcello pitches, I would almost always dh Miggs, and play Omar or Ramon at third. We’re giving away too many outs on defense. That’s all I have to say about that. Good night!

Any correlation with the team freezing in front of the camera and at the plate this weekend?

Seeing how it was going by the 2nd inning, I got busy with other things. Had the game on, but wasn’t really paying attention. Saw some swings at bad pitches and all, but it wasn’t worth it today.
Going back to last winter after the Fielder signing, I think it was Gk who expressed some dismay that everyone was picking the Tigers to win it all. It is disconcerting when that happens, probably because we know our team better than anyone, and are well acquainted with their weaknesses. This season has been a little low on the fun side, despite some nice streaks of wins. It will be a struggle to the end.
Leyland did not look good after the game, and neither did Porcello for that matter. Hope they didn’t all catch some Tejas bug.

I said it earlier Leyland looked aweful….that heat is hard I hope someone is paying attention to him because he looed weak and frail almost. And that’s not typical.

I think one of the things that worry me most are not being able to take advantage.
This happens during a game but it also happens at times when the team has done something incredible. They can’t seem to keep the momentum or really turn the corner. We have had victories that should have served to galvanize this team. But it doesn’t, we slip back into mediocrity as a whole and bad habits, individually, every time.
This can’t be pinned on Leyland alone. Dombrowski is the architect of this team, as it is. I believe he made a good acquisition with Fielder. The mistake was thinking that was all that was necessary. Leyland’s part in the drama is going too far with personnel that are clearly wanting. He’s been doing this forever. Sheffield, Jones, Maggs, Inge, Raburn. There have been a few.
More character and more heart are needed. I look at a kid like Trout and drool. That guy is a winner.
It is definitely gloomy here. In reality there IS time to get over this, but astute Tiger fans know and see what has been going on and the gloom is not misplaced.
I don’t know who can get this team going but it will take more than Miggy.
They need to be very careful with that ankle. To the point of reconsidering who is playing 3rd base in September.

Geez slowbyrne…Ease up. I’m close enough to Suicde Watch(again). Give it a day or two.

And just be glad we are not Indian fans.

I drool sometimes too but is generally age related.

I feel sorry for Miggy, Ajax, Biggy and JV as they are the only guys that seem to be gutting it out this season. The remainder of the roster appears to be in the midst of mediocre seasons at best and lifeless! Defense stinks, the Offense is not creative at all (thanks to JL’s long ball theory), the BP has been a revolving door of guys not ready and the SP’s well, not even JV has been consistent! So you have an average bunch of underachievers going nowhere this year. Like Rich, I try to get positive things done while the swing & misses, errors, wild pitches and GIDP’s go on in the far background.

Agree with your post Greg.

I like the word accountability. Boesch was told last night by lloyd that Adams would throw a cutter up and in. He swung at it. Whose job is it to tell him to take the first pitch. Did Leyland miss a sign? The other word I like is awful. Can you be awfully good? I can’t believe that some of you are giving up, but I have given up on Leyland. Go Tigers! Someone step up and read your teammates the riot act!

This game sure was an energy sapper – thank our lucky stars none of us were under the furnace watching it.
JL has to now conclude neither BB or Young are up to fighting the #5 black hole position and radical surgery is required to the lineup.
With Ajax the only other star in offense after the big 2 and already too much weight on Avila’s shoulders, either he, Jhonny or Dirks are the only options.
I would go with Ajax with Omar available as leadoff.

Ajax has an astounding OBP. #1 in MLB for leadoff hitters and #10 in MLB overall. And as far as the #5 spot is concerned, I am ok with putting DY in the #3 hole so he can see more fastballs for strikes; thus, bumping Miggy and Biggy back, similar to last year.

Richard, the guy would see 4 pitches a night, not per at bat.

Funny. I can actually see that happening.

See Boesch.

I laughed so hard my future ex-wife checked in to see if I was checking out.

Miggy likely needing a good spell at DH down the stretch makes it even more pressing for a radical shakeup.

Smyly pulled in the second inning tonight. Anyone know why??

Smyly was ejected from a little beanball war involving Will Rhymes, of all people. Rondon too, plus others. The story is on MLive.

Thanks, Rich.

Isn’t the #3 hitter supposed to be the best hitter on the team? Putting DY in that spot means he potentially gets more AB’s than MC and PF. While it may help improve Delmon’s hitting, I can’t agree with that move, and I like Delmon. He may have a ton of potential, but he’s just not getting the job done. Nor is Brennan, and I like him too. All I would ask is that they would be more disciplined at the plate. Otherwise they don’t start. I’m back to wanting to see QB in there. Put him at the bottom of the order and make him bunt and shorten his swing. He needs more discipline too.
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Jackson CF
Dirks RF
Cabrera DH
Fielder 1B
Infante 2B or 3B
Avila C
Peralta SS
Santiago 2B or 3B
Berry LF
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To rest Miguel’s ankle. Just a thought. The downside of this lineup is obviously the loss of power in the lineup. But in reality how many HR’s do they have between them anyway? At least this lineup maximizes the team’s defense. I’m only suggesting this because it looks like Miguel is hurting.

Was DY the best hitter on the team last year? I think not. But things worked pretty well then, especially in the playoffs. Who knows if DY ever becomes the projected DY? He has shown brilliance in at least 2-3 seasons and is still young (no pun intended). Boesch has shown flashes of brilliance. And consider, Young is only 26 and Boesch is 27.

My fear is we let DY go and he becomes what he was projected to be.

On the other hand give me Josh Reddick for DY and/or BB. Done deal. Fickle, huh?

They being BB and DY, and the # is 23.

Don’t worry about the lineup, starting pitching, or defense. The problem is the bullpen. How do we reinvent it?? Do we need an outside puzzle piece?????

I’m not giving up on the season, and I’m not predicting gloom and doom, nor sunshine and roses. This is going to be a very tough, frustrating, dare I say mind altering final seven weeks. There’s only so much that can be done to change this club at this point, so the guys we have will just have to get it done. I know you don’t like that because I don’t like it either, but (don’t say it Rich don’t say it) it is what it is. Darn, I said it.
I never hoped for a WS win, never do. I keep it to getting into the postseason then see what happens. That is totally up in the air. I see no reason for Chicago to fade, so it’s going to be a fight. Job one is doing better on the road, something the Sox have done well. At the very least, no more clunkers like today. We’ll be without baseball soon enough, so I’d like to enjoy the ones that are left.

Vargas beat Weaver to give him his second loss. Vargas is a local MLB kid w/in my 30 minute radius. Knew of him but did not predict his present prowess. Weaver was a little outside my radius but he was always a a high profile guy and well known. He seemed destined to go on.. Both kids played @ Long Beach State. Funny how things turn out. Just cannot give up. Still glad we got Sanchez instead of Vargas.

Actually, I brrought up Weaver because he is being touted for Cy Young and his teamate, Trout, is being pushed for MVP over Miggy. Cannot see the MVP hype.

Got the MVP hype from either ESPN or MLB, I think.

We are just showing how streaky we are – play great, play terrible – it is a terrible roller coaster we are having to put up with, the highs are very high, the lows are very low. After last week’s Sunday game with the Indians I thought we never would look so horrible like we did this weekend, but just like that we did. Let’s see what this week brings us.

Now Leyland is starting to open up to the press. That plus the platitudes are beginning to flow (“Lamont best around”).
Instead of trying to pay attention to real problems Leyland is now employing the press again to get his point across to the players. Some players do not respond well to this.
We have a problem with Brennan Boesch. The kid is not hitting with power and has bad at bats almost every time up.
Leyland is handling this in the press. “”He’s struggling right now,” Leyland said.

“He gets mad when we talk about relaxing, but he’s just fighting himself. But I don’t know what to do with him, to be honest with you.”

It’s hard to relax when someone tellsyou to. It also “makes you mad” when you wake up and see your manager throwing you under the bus in the Detroit News. And to suggest you don’t know what to do about it. That makes everybody feel real comfortable about a stretch run.

I’ll tell you what you do. You tell him he’s benched unless he starts to bear down in his at bats AND work the count. You tell him the future is now. And you do it in your office with a Marlboro in your fingers and your feet on your desk.

This is not to imply this is the root cause of the team’s problems. Delmon Young should be let go. Plan, simple.

He is to one dimensional (and not very good at that dimension) to run the risk of mucking up scoring opportunities or morale. If you get anything for him fine. If you don’t, that’s fine too. Something other than the “we’re a good team and it’s a long season” strategy needs to be done. We need a shake-up.
It’s clear, it’s obvious and it’s near the end of the season 2012.

zero chance JL did not talk with brennan before the press. everyone knows JL is upfront with the players – and talks to all of them very frequently and personally. He probably told him exactly what you just said you would tell him.

JL has been expelled 4 times. Tigers are 2-2 on those games:http://portal.closecallsports.com/mlb-ejection-list

Post season schedule. As today the Tigers would have to play a tiebreaker:http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/mlb-postseason-schedule-announced-ties-will-be-settled-over-1-3-days-080912

Correction: that was true on Friday. Today , one game out.

In an MLive article Iott posted this numbers for Avila:.483 HR/ 7 RBI, 5 BB/ 1.248 OPS. In his previous trip to Texas , Avila looked back before falling again.
Peralta has already as many 2B and 3B as the whole 2011 season but is on pace to 12 HR , 9 less than last year and half of his best season. he has 6 BB less than last year. His avg is 39 point less than 2001 but only 7 point behind his career avg.100 point less OPS than 2011
Infante is hitting 308/811 since he is a Tiger and 385 for last 10.
Young has twice as much BB as Baker (16/8).
Boesch is 294 for last 10 after the Texas chain saw massacre .
They have the pieces but JL must make them work.
Neither Young nor BB can handle the fith spot. I would try Avila against RHP and Peralta against LHP.
I would play Miguel at 1b for a couple of days to rest him and DH Fielder to rest him too.( He wont die because of that)
I would use Baker, more, not only in the fixed way . Perhaps he can take the ball out of the infield.
Last year or the year before , when Ortiz was struggling , Francona benched him to allow him to recover. ortiz answered; if im benched how will I recover? With BB , JL is in a Catch 22 situation.If he bench him now, he destroys his confidence. If he allow him to bat, he could end digging a hole as deep as Raburn´s . Anyway Im ok with Berry as “defensive ” replacement.
Villareal is under fire for hiding his injury. He is not the first, Todd Jones did the same. So did Valverde. They all remember Wally Pipp.
I would made the medical team review Benoit too.

If you value your team you do NOT hide injuries at this point. You can play through them if you can and/or you have to but you need to be upfront and respect your teammates.
Also, as a manager, you can’t be held hostage by your non-producing players. We’ve gone through this with too many guys. I like Boesch a lot but I don’t like what I am seeing up at the plate and I don’t like his attitude regarding the criticism.
It is becoming apparent that it will fall upon Berry or Baker to provide something tangible. I would not hold my breath. They actually still should be really keeping an eye on the waiver wire.

There was a cheap avialble LHB: Podzednick but they not even try to sign him. They discovered two days ago that Berry and Boesch can not hit.
Abreu is on DL and struggling.

available

Tonight’s lineup: Jackson 8, Dirks 7, Cabrera 5, Fielder 3, Avila 2, Young dh, Boesch 9, Peralta 6, Infante 4. Sanchez is starting.

answer: Alex gets shot at 5th spot VS RHP

Our hitters must be patient. Their pitcher walks more than he strikes out. Watch out though as he is 3-0 as he does not give up many hits. Three QS, too. Avila is on fire in August again!! Could we give him the nickname “Augie” Avila?? Play the hot bat at #5. Hopefully he will continue on his roll. Do we have more patient hitters on the bench tonight??

Dave B, I see we posted 7 minutes apart. I said to bat Omar 5th but I like the idea of batting Austin 5th and having Omar lead off. Rich, you are right, the summer seems to be going fast and baseball will be played in cool weather and then the S word comes around. Does Leyland really know his players?

:-)
You were too quick for me this time.
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With the Baker / Boesch platoon, the team is set apart from the order to get it done in the close ones as the season runs out of tomorrows.
I hope Alex gets it done at 5 but JL is asking an awful lot.
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You can’t call guys troopers for playing through injuries and then when it suits you say a guy isn’t smart.

It’s all about “being upfront”.

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