Saturday: Tigers at Pirates

TIGERS

  1. Austin Jackson, CF
  2. Brennan Boesch, RF
  3. Miguel Cabrera, 3B
  4. Prince Fielder, 1B
  5. Delmon Young, LF
  6. Alex Avila, C
  7. Jhonny Peralta, SS
  8. Ramon Santiago, 2B
  9. Max Scherzer, P

PIRATES

  1. Alex Presley, LF
  2. Jose Tabata, RF
  3. Andrew McCutchen, CF
  4. Garrett Jones, 1B
  5. Neil Walker, 2B
  6. Pedro Alvarez, 3B
  7. Rod Barajas, C
  8. Josh Harrison, SS
  9. Brad Lincoln, P

145 Comments

Got Boesch in that 2-hole again to get him going. Nah, kidding, who else would you put there if Berry’s getting the start off. It doesn’t seem to matter how you line ‘em up.
As the late afternoon sun (if it’s sunny) drops lower on the horizon, those buildings across the river will light up. One of baseball’s better views.

Bring us a couple of victories Marty!

I hope Max can find some comfort today on the hill. Must be a really tough time for him. Best of luck to him and to his family.

Tigers official site and Detroit media sites have not said anything about the tragic event with Max Scherzers’ brother. Just calling it ‘personal’. Only twitter people have made any commentary.
Jason, will that continue or will they just wait for and let Max make comments if he decides to?

Whatever the “personal reason” was regarding Max, time to rally around and support your teammate guys and go get Max a win. I’ll be watching and cheering from West Michigan.

Haven’t heard anything here in Illinois about Max’s situation. Have heard that the White Sox are trying to get Kevin Youkilis. UGH!!! Or is that old news already?

living in boston, all I have heard despite not wanting to, is all the problems in the redsox clubhouse with valentine in the middle of it, right from the get go. He had some stuff to say to the media a month ago about youkilis, and a couple of players including pedroia said right after, that is not how we do stuff here. and even ortiz had a media interview thursday/friday and said as much, fed up, and that he just might move on when end of the season comes. yeah papi take your pharmacist with you.

Typical start for us offensively. Boesch with a pop-up to left and Cabby hitting the ball impatiently right at the shortstop or 3rd baseman.
I have no confidence we’ll be able to support Max today.
Boesch needs to be spanked.

Our hitters:
Boesch – lurch at every swing and pop the bal up meekly or dribble it out in front of the plate.Taking his top hhand off the bat. Don’t bother talking to him Lloyd.
Young- swing at everything between your knees and your toes. Don’t work the count and get a GOOD pitch to hit. Don’t need to talk to the veteran Lloyd.
Peralta- keep swinging for those right field and center field fences. Sooner or later those high flyouts will result in a sac fly or (if the fences are short enough) a homer.
Don’t have a word with him Lloyd about shortening up and hitting line drives..
Now–I will give you there is not even a point in thinking abouttalking hitting with Biggy and Miggy. but there are other guys who could use some help. Miggy & Biggy would laugh at you if you gave them advice. Lord knows they could probably use some now though. Both will be under .300 very soon.

Well I just got home and I see we are still not hitting anything. God these guys are horrible right now.

Boy 17 hits through 3 1/2 games. Can anyone say pitiful!?

PITIFUL!

Yep, 4 innings, NO hits. They were lucky to have 2 hits in a row last night to score one run. How much pressure can Max stand? What needs to be done to get the hitters going? With 8 more road games at Texas and Tampa, they will ne lucky to break even.

It’s gonna be a long day. Max (all the credit in the world to himj), is throwing too many pitches. He’s bound to get in trouble.
He’s also a little wild.
Our guys suck at the plate. Boesch has to be the WORLD’s worst 2-0 hitter.
Miggy looks overmatched every time up—fouls off pitches he used to hammer.

Lloyd–tell your boys—-“that’s how you hit–and when you hit”!

3-run homer. Pirates 3-0. GAME OVER! First series lost to a NL team this season. Now 0-2 on 10-game road trip.

Well a three run homer by Mccuthen …. Game over the way these guys are hitting. Completely disgusted. Must be miserable being a pitcher for the Tigers know giving up 2 runs might be too many. Can hardly stand to watch these guys.

Leyland needs a team huddle before every game and a group cheer. Perhaps the lineup can yell to all their starters ” Throw us a shutout and we’ll get a win!”
I despise what kind of fan the team has turned me into this year.

So now I go into games having to be happy just not o be no- hit. Every pitcher out there looks like Cy Young against our horrible hitting team. It really gets ugly if Cabby is struggling. Did I say I was disgusted”

Or shut out.

The only thing DY is good for is to play everday LF———–against LHP. The rest of the time he sits.
He just plays bad all-around ball.

That is the way to go out of a slump

I guess everybody here read llitch. No trades , no changes. VMart will save the day. Wishful thinking will replace moneyball. ( not that it works either, two playoff in 10 years is what MB has to show)

Just got home from work. The usual crap.

Nothing but praise for Max. He stand there when he had the right to be with his family. But was there for the team and did a good job

I didn’t know about Max and his brothers death. He came and did his job even when he shouldn’t of had to. And teammates layed another egg out there and will most likely hang him with a loss for his courage. This team even makes me more angry right now.

Amen. Big Man!

Terrible strike zone.
.
There really are no words to express the sorrow Max and his parents are feeling. Terribly sad.

I’ve missed most of the game so I hope Greg will give us 3 things he saw from the Tigers that were good.

At least they channeled their inner Tiger and failed with bases loaded

Did I say disgusted!

Big four hit attack! Fearsome!
5 runs in 4 games.
Did I say disgusted?

Toast!

We do lead the AL in 400 foot outs to dead center and managerial double switches, so there’s that.

I’ll make it even harder on Greg using this one – we have continued our season long streak of avoiding the shutout.

You certainly can’t just release some players. Eventually maybe you could get something for them at the trading deadline. Would firing the manager upset the season too much? How about if MI or DD take the bull by the horns and tell JL that Lloyd has to go? Seems I remember a hitting coach at Toledo who has a knack for straightning out wayward hitters but you can’t send everyone to Toledo so bring that coach to Detroit. How long can MI put up with blowing millions on pop=ups and ground-outs?

Let me preface this by saying I don’t have a clue what goes on behind closed doors with Mr.Illitch,DD or JL. I just have this impression that perhaps the relationship between Mr.I and JL is more than just boss /employee. I think there is a friendship there, and Mr I. just can’t or won’t allow DD to as Dan would say “turf” JL or any of his cronies. For the life of me, I just can’t understand any other reason why such underperformance is tolerated.

Well, my fellow TigaBloggers, I suppose all of our tails are dragging the ground this evening. I’m almost “tailless”. I’ll give my three things I liked about the game, with a few additional remarks:
1. Alex’s peg to second on the attempted steal by Tabata. One of the best I have seen.
2. Already alluded to by many; Max just did not pitch that badly. And learning of his Brother’s recent death. I salute his professional effort.
3. Dotel’s bailing out Coke in the 7th, and then bailing out himself in the 8th. Probably our highlight.

I used to get so upset with Tiger losses, and the seemingly no effort approach to hitting. Now, I find myself in disbelief and defeat. How can MLB “hitters” who are paid tons of money hit so poorly day in and day out? McClendon probably needs to go, but I’m not sure things will be any better. This team constantly looks up, and finds itself 0-2 and 1-2 almost every at bat. We never work the count. My wife almost called 911 for me when Delmon found first base via a walk of all things in the ninth. Our pitchers are always 100 pitches in the fifth and sixth; theirs are 75 in the seventh and eighth. What is wrong here? Even Miggie, whom I consider the best righty hitter in the business, is always fighting back from an 0-2 count. For goodness sakes, bench Boesch and Delmon, and play Worth and Berry. At this stage it could not be any worse. Jhonny is snakeitten with 420 foot outs, Alex looks like he is starring in “The Zombies Lost the Game Again”. Even Ajax decided today that he would reprise his impression of a 2011 baseball player. My goodness, Razor seems the steadiest and most dependable. Well, enough bloviating on my part. Verlander, be forewarned! Give up two runs tomorrow and you’ll be a loser.
Might happen if you give up one! Solution! Throw a no hitter, and Biggie will squeeze Miggie home, and we salvage a game out of three.

No doubt Mr I at his age feels like he has to ride his current horse even if it is over the cliff.
No doubt Prince feels the 5 & 6 cliff behind him knowing the inning will end after what he does. His 2012 HR vs career stats reflects this being:
Empty Bases – 140/10 for 14.0 per AB vs 13.9 career;
Runners On – 123 AB’s for 1HR vs 18.5 career.
No you can’t sack them but surely you can change the lineups and stop sending Young and Avila to the sword at 5 & 6. Peralta at 5 with Ramon or Boesch at 6 has to be a better option than what the SOC keeps sending out.

Justin is the stopper for our Detroit Tigers and we need him to come through tomorrow. Starting a ten game road trip with two losses is never good. Stop the bleeding JV!!!!!!

Nice post, Greg. It’s a sad state of affairs in Tigerland these days but you made me chuckle.

We all need a chuckle. Just like Dotel after getting “himself” out of the 8th inning.
I can tell you that is one thing I didn’t need to see. 3 runs down, after an embarrassing and horribly played ballgame and our reliever walking off the mound amused with things? Proud of himself?
Is this what you call a team?
Shame on Dotel. That was bush league.

Everyone is frustrated; players, fans, et all. But that’s baseball. If you whiners jump off the wagon, don’t get on when it rolls.

What this year makes you believe they will snap out of anything? They’ve done nothing to prove they have anything.

Except Dotel?

Where are the homers?? Update. Should we expand our search and try to find some hits first ????!!!!!!! As a team, we average less than a homer a game. Not good. Today Cabby hit our homer the opposite way after going 0-15. Prince Fielder had two hits going the opposite way. Our two big hitters are trying to lead by example. Will the others follow them?? Stay tuned.

I generally enjoy your posts. They usually are thoughtful and cogent. I especially enjoy when you bring salient, evidenced based information to the fore. There is a lot of good data to enjoy, much of which ultimately points to success for the Tigers. I think that will happen . I think you do too.

Well, I can only speak for myself. I still think we’re going to win the division, although we obviously won’t get the 95 wins I predicted. The division will be decided by head to head competition within it, not by gimmicky interleague play. No one is going to run away with it.
That said, I stick to daily events and if they’re negative, so am I in my comments. When these guys start to play some good, consistent baseball, the mood will lighten considerably. It has nothing to do with bandwagons or the definition of a true fan. This team so far has been horribly disappointing, which leads to horribly disappointed fans. “It is what it is” to quote Jim Leyland.

Ahh, ..The Guru. Always there to sort things out .Enjoy your input .Excellent fodder for thought.

Last season, it took the acquisitions of Betemit, Fister, and Young, along with the insertion of Santiago into the daily lineup, to give this club a swift kick in the back pockets. Looks like we’ll need similar this year, be it on field personnel changes or bench changes. Right now, the Tigers aren’t acting like they expect to win games. Expectations will prevail, whatever they are.

What would it feel like to win 4 or 5 in a row? Idk, it hasn’t happened this year, has it?

Actually we had two four game winning streaks in the first twelve games we played. Then we had our longest losing streak of five games. For two months since then, we have played scuffling baseball with no streak over three games.

Kathy, not to worry. Most teams have runs and we are due. It should happen, and hopefully we rip off a long one soon, like last year. Then everything will be good. Baseball is what it is.

Hey Gk, your posts would be a lot more palatable if you could mix in some positive comments once in a while.

Or, if you think there is nothing positive to be said about the Tigers, why bother posting at all?

P.S. Let’s not get swept by McCutchen & Co. on Sunday!

Well apologies if you don’t think my opinion is in your words “palatable”. I pretty much state facts as I go throughout the game and frankly it’s been pretty negativethis year. But clearly your not paying attention throughout the years if you think I don’t say anything positive. More power to ya if you can find the good in 17 hits and five runs in 4 games. Yes there was a win in there, but even wins have been a struggle for this team. And like many on here we keep stating that we feel like it might be turning it around and they don’t..

Greg is the positive one around here lately, I look to him like many others on here to us hoping. And I will try to be a little more sugary and flowery. Here it is the Tigers were really good at not getting no hit and shut out yesterday. And they were really nice in that Lincoln who is struggling to stay in the rotation well they made him look as good as Justin Verlander. But in all seriousness Max made me proud yesterday.

Line up at @tigers:
Jackson 8, Berry 9, Cabrera 5, Fielder 3, Young 7, Avila 2, Peralta 6, Raburn 4, Verlander 1

I’m good with the lineup although I must admit (even if it is negative) I’d like to see Laird in there instead of Avila. Laird is like a different guy out there.

I hope Jv gets to hit today and get one. :)

The true , I prefer him out of the bases. Pitchers must bunt and go back to the bench.
Steimbrener was right after the C M Wang ´s injury

Jackson: stay aggressive at the plate, don’t become tentative
Cabrera: keep the front foot down until you break out of it
Young: take a walk. We saw you do it
Avila: go to a lighter bat if you’re still swinging that heavy one
Peralta: keep doing what you’re doing, they’ll start to fall
Raburn: same as Peralta

Rich you’ll have to help me remember, was it last year that Victor got Alex to use a heavier bat?

That’s correct. I don’t remember the exact weight, but it’s quite a war club. Alex looks to me like he’s late on everything. It’s entirely possible that he’s already gone lighter, of course. It’s not like that gets reported often.

Believe me, I understand the frustrations with how things have gone this season, especially with offensive production. But they’ve just won a few consecutive series (until we got to PNC) and it’s still felt like only the negative snapshots were being portrayed.

And I have been lurking on Jason’s blog for a few years. It’s the only place where I regularly read user comments because it’s the most reasonable, adult, and welcoming community I have found. Gk is a part of that as much as anybody and I’ll continue to read every day. I rarely post because, frankly, I’m not a fantastic analyst but I appreciate the viewpoints I find here.

Go Tigers, and go Verlander first MLB hit!

This is shaping up to be a rough road trip. These guys need to buckle down and get tough. The pitching matchups in Texas do not look promising.

Yahoo is now showing the run differential with the standings: Tigers -15. Tribe – 36. Texas +93. Rays + 16.
Twins -20. Royals -13 …. in 1987 and 1984

Out of his own mouth: Leyland reminded his visitors that this was the same team fans, as well as analysts, believed would bash its way to the playoffs in 2012
Interesting, makes it sound like an accomplishment. The truth is JL has taken several “can’t be beat” kinds of teams and turned them into hitless wonders and last place calibre teams.

“”Dave will leave no stone unturned,” Leyland said. “But it’s tough when someone (another club) thinks you’re in dire need of a particular piece.
“The price goes up.”
JL deliberately misuses the word “thinks” here.instead of “knows”.

We have long been saying Delmon needs to go. Instead he is plugged in (almost every game) in the 5 hole where he has not helped Cabby and Prince. He has shown he is not a prototypical DH and has shown he can’t play D. The smartest thing (and there were some here that suggested such) would have been to release him after the NY incident. His personal season (read contract year) went down the tubes with that incident and I believe his motivation to play for that contract went along with it. He made a mistake that cost him 7 figures and his incentive.

I like the guy, as flawed as he is, but the Illitch insistence of signing Prince has left the club with the same gaping holes it had before the season started.

Of course the individual performances of Avila, Boesch, Peralta and Raburn have really hurt. IMO, this is where Lloyd and Leyland should have asserted themselves. Waiting for things to improve has proved to be fatal. That mentality is more “palatable” when you have one guy struggling not five.

Often we get Kool Aiders here who criticize the criticism here as not having solutions to the whine. I think that is very far from the truth. We have solutions all right but understandably they are mostly impractical as we don’e have to deal with the financial aspect of the organization. If Illitch had not spent far too much money on Prince DD would have the latitude of making some creative improvements.

I can tell you what I would do, or would have done, but that is no solution. I would have demoted Boesch and fixed his swing. I would have gotten rid of DY a long time ago. I never would have appointed Raburn to 2nd base. I would have gone for Jose Reyes and moved Peralta to 3rd. I would have made a move for Martin Prado..

What to do now. Well I think Peralta needs a change of scenery. His fly balls are not gonna find RBIs at Comerica. His range and mysterious arm strength diminishment are not going to compensate for his lack of slugging. He’s a really good guy to have on your team if you have a team that has a solid core of leaders and people who are injecting enthusiasm. He is reliable and workmanlike. Right now we need a little more “spectacular” in our infield. Something to stoke the fire.
You wait too long with a guy like this and you will end up in the familiar position of not being able to get any value in return.

Leaving Boesch to his own devices is ridiculous. He is in need of mentoring, at the major or minor league level. If he doesn’t get it he will end up around .220

I don’t know what to do with Avila. he seems too “even” to me. Like he is trying to remain too calm. Sometimes you need to whack yourself on the side of the helmet and have a few words with yourself before stepping to the plate. He has far too much potential to give up on but I do wonder if he can play hurt effectively. I know he can play hurt.

The alternative is to sit back and wait for things to happen. To give the same tired interviews to the media about how good of a hitting team this is and it is just a matter of time before everything is fine.

I’m worried about this team. JL says he’s not. “To tell you the truth” he’s not telling the truth.

I know he is not popular here or anywhere in Detroit but Henning thinks Young is alredey packing his stuff . He sounds like Boesch could pack his too.
Because of the added WC there will be no sellers? Every team have flaws even the Yankees or Texas. Two contending teams could exchange to lessen them .Sometimes you dig a hole to fill another as soon the new one is not a deep as the originial.
Cafardo is selling the ex Red Sox Lowrie to the Tigers. Scutaro is being promoted by Henning.I still think Santiago is the right one there. If any upgrade is to be made. … sorry , Jhonny ( I was your bigger fan but…)
Pitty Podesednik is LHB , he woul fill both the LF and the second spot very well.
What about calling someone from the year there was no baseball season? Cody Ross?
Avila is hurt. Probably broken for ever after last year overload.
They will be in top on the Central by the end of the season.
Dunn? 219, 105 SO? That their answer to Cabrera?
Cleveland hit even less than the Tigers.
As now the will be swept by the opposing team in the post season

Hmmm…..no Sunday blog by Jason? I’d like to see an exciting game for a change. These 3 hits to avoid a no-hitter and one run to avoid a shutout is just plain boring.

I see ya Quinten! Was he hobbling around 3rd?

Its fell good….

Not an answer to GK. I was talking about being 2-0 in the first

Perfect, the pitcher to open the inning

Awesome Berry. Maybe he needs to be the new hitting coach. And now 6 Tigers down in a row looking as lethargic as usual. Really, where would they be now without Berry? Unbelievable to have to even say that.

If and when Andy Dirks comes back, they better not cut Berry. Right now that would have to be the most bone-headed move they have ever made and that is saying something. You can argue over who should go.

This team and it’s base-running inabilites drives me crazy. Horrible jump by AJ on the steal, don’t steal with Berry, can’t get to 3rd with 2 out on a soft grounder to RF?
Bad base-running strategies.

If Berry steals 2nd with Miggy up we have a 3rd run. The Pirates have been horrible throwing runners out stealing. Berry would have stolen easily.
What is the point of speed at your top 2 positions if you aren’t pressuring the defense with them?

Can JV win with a 2-run lead? Looks more and more like he may have to do that.

My Mom went.to school with Clint Hurdle.
.
Not to sound negative, but Alex just looks lethargic at the plate. I just don’t get it with him, he is grounding out to 2nd with great regularity. I am worried about a lot of these hitters, but him, he had such a sweet swing.

Jv might be the best sacrifice bunter on the team!
.
Surprised to see Max in the dugout.

Dare I say it? Raburn looks to be coming around. He is hitting .333 in June.

He’s looked ok since he’s come back. Leland maybe right, he might be better as a spot starter and a pinch hit guy, not a full time player? I don’t know.

Same ol'; same ol’. These hitters are consistently having the same at bat over and over.
Avila, Cabby Fielder, Young, It’s a tired refrain and now JV has to get through the dreaded 6th inning with a slight lead and one that you know will not be added to.
Not much room for any mistakes.

I will say I am very concerned with JV throwing this many curve balls. Hopefully this is part of the plan but I don’t think it’s such a good plan if it is.

Once a venezuelan sport anchor asked Jim Palmer if he was pleased after SO 10 hitters. He said not at all. SOs mean more pitches. JV has only 4 SO today but only 72 pitches and that is good. He needs to throw more curves with two strikes to stop the many fouls that usually make him overwork.
His curve used to be nasty in his two first years then he forgot it.

Boy I sure thought the way the first inning looked we might hit a little better today. Pitts pitcher did not have god numbers but still rather limp at the plate. Weak grounder after weak grounder. I’m truly at a loss.

Gk…AA’s hitting mechanics seem a little more inconsistent this year. He sometimes opens up too early as well as swings around the ball, instead of letting it travel to him and then driving it to left. That would probably account for your observation that AA is grounding to second with “regularity.”

Might be the closest we get to a Verlander hit today.

I thought JV was going to get his hit there for just a second! Dang!

Probably was still with his mind on the long fly

Crap! Hope the fellas can start hitting otherwise????

Can’t blame JV. He’s throwing without all his stuff. That inning could have been much worse. they were teeing off. Balls were pretty hard hit.
The chances are less than 50/50 we find a way to win rather than finding a new way to lose.

8th inning it’s now or never!

If they don’t run with Berry Leylad is a complete fool.
2-0 pitch is a good one to go on against Cabby.

Finally a clutch hit. Young has gone to RF a couple of times this game on balls up.
Fielder running the bases is a bit of a comedy. Cabby is way off his game. HR yesterday means nothing–he’s off.
Our 3-4 hitters are not bringing a comfort level to fans at all. Usually you look forward to that. It’s not been that way much lately.
Fingers crossed that JV can regroup and get through the 8th in good order.
I imagine if that happens we see Benoit—please not Coke.

Good points, especially concerning Fielder. Although his offense has been pretty solid, his power stats are way down. Last year at this time, Fielder had 20 HR and almost 20 more RBI.

Raburn is now hitting AND playing defense???

How desperate is this team? JV gonna bat in the 9th if Raburn doesn’t swing at ball 4 twice. They Have Santiago, Boesch, Laird on the bench and they are gonn let JV hit? The desperate part is in the realization that none of these guys had a good chance of driving in the run anyway.
JV’s game to wind or lose. I would imagine you will see 110 from him this inning. The problem will be if he attains it will he stay with it too long?

Thank You JV…..YOU deserved it.
BTW, Castellanos in Erie is liking AA. Just hit his 3rd HR in as many days. Not developed into a HR hitter yet but obviously the potential is there. I hope he does so well there they have to promote him to Toledo by year end.

JL made one good move. Raburn to LF to replace DY. RR saved a possible homerun for the last out of the 8th inning. :) See? Positive comment.

I was nervous on that long fly even with Raburn in Young’s place. <— mildly negative coment :)

Yes, nice catch to go with his .300 plus June average. Happy to see RR step up and play both offense AND defense.

We really need Boesch and Avila to start squaring up on the ball. Looks like a lot of RHP ahead of us this week.

Is everyone still breathing? An exciting game today, with no margin for error, but nevertheless, a desperately needed win. Was everything great today? By George, it was not! But I’ll share three things I liked about today’s game:
1. Delmon actually went opposite field twice, the second hit being the tie breaker and game winner. That beats a ground ball to SS any day. Delmon, it’s okay to go to right field, to look at more than one pitch, and to be taken out for defensive upgrading in the last two innings. Delmon would have dropped Harrison’s ball in the eighth.
2. QB had four quality AB’s. Remember the strikeout was on a 3-2 count. Two walks and the Homerun, means he saw 23 pitches today. That’s a weeks worth of pitches for Delmon. Berry’s speed, defense, and energy are going to be critical moving forward.
3. Justin Verlander simply being Justin Verlander. I’ve seen a lot of MLB pitchers, but not a lot who can to a baseball what JV does. If he were a Yankee, he would currently be 13-0. Keep selling those pizzas, Mr. I! The next contract will be 6 years
at 175 Milllion, if we could be so lucky.

Feeling so sad for Avila, Peralta, and Boesch. I cringe as Alex tries to bat. He is definitely not 100%.

A J. Verlander start ends up 3-2. What a surprise!! That’s six of them this season!!! Thank goodness we have won all but one of them. Then you can throw in a 3-1 win in Oakland and a 2-1 loss in Cleveland. The night he flirted with the no-no he was given six runs. Would you say that was five too many?? Four times we scored six runs for him and the team ended up with three wins in those games. That’s baseball.

35-37, 3 games behind in a division where the leader is 4 games over .500. In 4 of the other 5 divisions, the leader is 10+ games over .500. That would put the Tigers at least 6 games behind teams that appear much stronger than the White Sox or the Indians. The Tigers need to go 4-3 the rest of this road trip to break even and hopefully stay within striking distance. JV gets only one of those games so the other pitchers are going to have to pick up 3 wins between them IF the hitters can ever wake up.

Ironically,the Tigers are #3 in BA in the AL and are in the top tier in most power categories. However, the Tigers are in mediocre as far as run production is concerned, which means they are definitely challenged in critical potential run scoring situations. No hitting coach can correct this flaw.

I will vehemently disagree with that. That’s where good hitting coaches earn their reputation.

I, for one, remain unconvinced re Raburn. He had a hit but he also looked bad in at least 2 of his other at bats. The ball he caught at the wall was not anything spectacular. You simply run back to the fence, reach up and catch it. To say he robbed someone of a HR is a bit of a stretch. Eddie Gaedel could have caught that too!

Disagree? How do you coach someone to hit safely with a runner in scoring positon as opposed to hitting safely only when the bags are clean, or homering wth runners on as opposed to hitting a solo shot? And the Tigers are certainly guilty of hitting too many solo homers. You usually generate articualte, reasoned and thoughtful posts. I am floored by this one. Me thinks there is an underlying agenda.

That would be it Richard. An underlying agenda. Yeah, that’s it.

Hitting coaches are supposed to preach things like technique but also pitch selection and recognition. How to hold off certain pitches to avoid ground balls and to ensure ground balls. How to hit to the off field. How to wait for “your” pitch. And yes, how to hit with a man on 3rd or on 2nd.

Regarding Raburn, I am holding my breath. For the sake of the Tigers I hope he has turned the corner. It is good to see some success from him instead of so much failure.

Well, many of the issues you covered are routinely covered by hitting coaches. I know. I served as one for several years. The critical problem is EXECUTION in small ball situations. No hitting coach can move runners over by thought control.

I just finished watching the game. Oh,my, Verlander was splendid. Prince gets on my nerves sometimes.

And yes, technique is extremely important to hitting success. Muscle memory is critical and takes lots and lots of repetitions based upon a correct hitting approach. A basic and sound hitting approach (there are and have been a few successful exceptions) consists of 5 stages. 1,Keep your head down on the ball. 2,Keep your weight back and don’t travel. 3,Keep the front side closed as long as realistically possible before opening up. 4.Be short to the ball and don’t drop the rear shoulder. 5,Stay long in the hitting zone.

I had to leave immediately after the game and just got back. Lot’s of reading here.
The CG by Verlander was huge going into a Texas series that’s going to require a lot of bullpen use. If Raburn had gotten on in the 9th, I kind of think JL would have pinch hit for Verlander, even though he was in the on deck circle. It worked out well. And unless I missed it, we finally played a game without a double switch.
Say what you will about Raburn in LF, he’s head and shoulders better than Young out there. On the other side, Boesch is playing himself right out of the lineup, and perhaps into a trade. When does “potential” leave the equation?
Avila should probably be dropped lower in the lineup, although I realize JL is using the L-R alternate which makes sense. Alex is struggling, though.
In the discussion about blaming either the hitters or the hitting coach, it’s both. The answer to most black/white questions is usually gray, no matter what subject.
The Youkilis trade is the first salvo. Remains to be seen how that will work out.

Marty, were you leading that “let’s go Tigers” chant in the 9th inning today?

Just got home from Pittsburgh. I have to say, today was a lot more fun than yesterday. I’m pretty tired, so for now will just list 7 things I liked about today’s win. Greg, I won’t do this again because it’s your creation.
.
1. Verlander’s pitching. He was a warrior today.
2. Berry’s hitting, fielding, and running. The guy is literally keeping us in the race.
3. Verlander’s hitting. An excellent bunt plus he put a good swing on the line drive to RF. Was almost a hit.
4. Delmon’s gwrbi hit. Really picked up Justin.
5. The Pirate Parrot.
6. The perrogie race won by Chester Cheese. (It went down to the wire)
7. My camera

I wasn’t Rich. Not directly anyway. But there were some excellent Tiger fans at the game. Quite a few though we were significantly outnumbered. I was frantically trying to get everything recorded. I probably should leave the camera home and just enjoy the game but can’t bring myself to do that.
.
This was a huge win. JV battled so hard. When he came off the field in the 7th after giving up the 2 run HR he was really upset with himself. (I was upset with our team for not giving him any further support after QB’s 2 run homer in the first.)
.
Have to give Delmon credit for coming right back with the rbi hit in the 8th. It picked JV right back up. I knew he physically had enough left in the tank. But without the regained lead, I’m not sure Justin would emotionally have been able to continue his dominance. The game could have easily slipped away. But it didn’t. When I saw Justin on deck in the top of the 9th, I was pleasantly surprised, because I didn’t think JL was going to keep him in. I knew he could finish with the CG. I felt he was our best option. Turns out he was, because even with the park whipped into a winning frenzy there in the 9th, JV finished the Pirate hitters off like it was the 1st. Great game!, and we needed that one.
.

I would start Laird tonight – as well as Berry. FIELD THE BEST TEAM SKIP.

the hitters might just get Lloyd fired. happened with Knapp last season. McClendon has longer tenure and the successful adjustments Jackson made probably buy him a bit more time. it seemed like in years past, the team would send a struggling hitter to AAA and Larry Parrish would get some credit for helping them out. moved on to Braves as their hitting coach, then got fired at end of last season when team flopped down the stretch. not sure if he’s still coaching. Cubs fired their well-known hitting coach, Rudy Jaramillo this season. Angels fired their long time hitting coach Mickey Hatcher earlier this season, too.
.
seems like something will happen to shake this team out of it’s hitting doldrums. the shelves are bare at AAA. all that’s left to do, that I can see, is to make a trade or fire the hitting coach.

or realize that hitting is down league wise and not panic.

The AL Central is the weakest division in baseball. Can we win it? Absolutely. When will our players on the DL return to the team?? We won’t know for a while. How do we fix the following problem?? Last year on this date we had a 15-8 record against lefty starters and this year we have an 8-12 record.

Realizing other overall league stats does not do anything about the fact that out of 14 teams in the AL we are:
9th in Bat Avg
11th in HR
9th in RBI
2nd in Hitting into DPs

Nor does the fact that our top 2 enormous sluggers (Miggy & Biggy in that order) are:
8th and 10 in Bat Avg
11th and 26th in HRs
2nd and 11th in RBIs
14th and 20th in SLG
and 14th and 15th in OPS

We can drop down from there and examine where each guy (other than AJ) sits among their peers. The stats are downright scary and, I dare say, panicable.

well you can panic then – I am going to wait until tomorrow. When the Tigers are 2nd in the league in batting average (tuesdays).

(american league that is (.281))

and on thursday and friday we are 3rd in the AL in BA

How about on Full Moons?

Sorry but .
3rd in bat Avg. AL.
4th AVG. RISP.
6 th in RBI with RISP.
8th in RBI .
7th in Runs with RISP.
11 th in run diferential
8th in ERA and 11 th in WHIP. The problem is the lack of synch amomg the three factors:starters, bullpen (among the worst but getting better) and hitting. And to many time wasted trying to get going proven AAAA players and resting the best players availables: Santiago, Laird, Berry, Dirks ( he was in AAA when he earned the spot in ST).
Plus going with 2 starters most of the year. They got two QS back to back how many times?

Guess the team: 6th in AVG.219 RISP. 28th in MLB. 21 th in RBI with RISP.9th in run with RISP.

Hatcher dismissal is a bad example, he was fired to please the Prima Donna they signed.

Good research and report.

Slowbyrne…I just went on MLB to check your stat report, which was flawed The Tigers are #3 in BA. They are also #4 in both 2B and 3B.Preumably this is not a ‘hidden agenda” on you part.

The Tigers have just been finding ways to lose. It won’t show in the stats. A lot of things don’t show in stats, which is why I seldom use them. Every game has one big situation without a hit, or one big 0-2 pitch that gets hit out, or one important DP that’s not turned, and on and on.
This is why it’s so difficult to pin down what the problem is.
.
I do like the word panicable. It sounds like an 80s band that features Todd Rundgren and Sid Vicious.

Guess the team: 6th in AVG.219 RISP. 28th in MLB. 21 th in RBI with RISP.9th in run with RISP.
Evil Empire . Run differentail 52 Plus

While waiting in the doctor’s office today, came across an excellent article about hitting. Before Andrew McCutchen was drafted, the Pirates minor league hitting coordinator had written notes about him coming up thru hs and the minors. Called them flaws and fixes. Andrew never had problems hitting until he got to the bigs. He read about his flaws and fixed them with the hitting instructor. The article also quoted Kevin Long of NY about his philosophy regarding hitting and helping a player. He said the first thing the player has to do is “he’s got to believe there’s a problem.” Then he can help them.

@tigers:
Tonight’s lineup: Jackson 8, Berry 7, Cabrera 5, Fielder 3, Young dh, Boesch 9, Peralta 6, Santiago 4, Laird 2. Porcello 1.

I would bat Peralta 5 th but…

Enough with the idiotic “agenda”. You are beginning to sound either foolish or about 14 years old..
I got my stats fro ESPN.

Sortable Batting
RK TEAM GP AB R H 2B 3B HR TB RBI AVG OBP SLG OPS
1 Texas 73 2559 386 722 140 16 92 1170 375 .282 .343 .457 .801
2 Boston 72 2510 376 681 178 5 86 1127 360 .271 .332 .449 .781
3 Toronto 72 2485 353 623 99 10 104 1054 329 .251 .317 .424 .742
4 NY Yankees 71 2419 337 626 124 4 112 1094 321 .259 .334 .452 .786
5 Chicago Sox 72 2455 332 625 91 14 86 1002 323 .255 .320 .408 .728
6 Tampa Bay 72 2377 311 557 102 13 70 895 298 .234 .320 .377 .696
7 Baltimore 72 2464 307 605 118 8 93 1018 286 .246 .308 .413 .721
8 Seattle 74 2512 307 597 121 11 68 944 288 .238 .300 .376 .676
9 Detroit 72 2443 306 641 131 13 66 996 289 .262 .327 .408 .735
10 Cleveland 71 2425 304 605 121 12 60 930 294 .249 .325 .384 .708
11 LA Angels 73 2459 301 643 115 10 73 997 289 .261 .319 .405 .725
12 Minnesota 71 2425 289 613 131 12 57 939 282 .253 .320 .387 .707
13 Oakland 73 2441 281 553 112 12 67 890 265 .227 .306 .365 .670
14 Kansas City 70 2437 274 634 133 15 55 962 258 .260 .316 .395 .711

No need to be hateful and disrespectful. You obviously have an agenda with Lloyd As far as our pissing contest is concerned, you have been a very active paticipant . Maybe a little introspection is in order.

Ahhh- I see where the 9th came in. I ASSUMED the rankings were in Bat Avg. I humbly apologize. The criterion that was actually ranked (my fault for not realizing) was in “runs” and not Bat Avg as I had assumed.
Sorry.
But that still doesn’t justify any “hidden agenda” comments.
The only hidden agenda any Tiger Fan should be concerned about (and I don’t think he has one) is one that Jim Leyland might have.

I used MLB webpage that account for the other one spot diference. I tried to show the good stats that make you wonder ,how can be?

http://detroit.tigers.mlb.com/stats

is more workable

Thank you for the apology. Let’s kiss and make up.

more interesting that who has an agenda is speculation on why they like the players they like and hate the ones they hate.

I hope this Grimm kid shaved today – he’s about to throw a great game today. Cy young-like.

The ball will fly tonight. 100 ° and low humidity. Better Porcello has his sinker working today

this is true

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