Tuesday: Tigers vs. Twins

Jim Leyland had said last night he would probably bat Delmon Young third even after Brennan Boesch returned to the lineup, and he wasn’t lying. Boesch is back and still batting second. Boesch goes to right field, while Young stays in left. Don Kelly gets the start at third base over Wilson Betemit, while Ramon Santiago starts at second over Ryan Raburn.


  1. Austin Jackson, CF
  2. Brennan Boesch, RF
  3. Delmon Young, LF
  4. Miguel Cabrera, 1B
  5. Victor Martinez, DH
  6. Alex Avila, C
  7. Jhonny Peralta, SS
  8. Don Kelly, 3B
  9. Ramon Santiago, 2B

P: Justin Verlander


  1. Ben Revere, CF
  2. Trevor Plouffe, 2B
  3. Joe Mauer, DH
  4. Justin Morneau, 1B
  5. Jason Kubel, RF
  6. Danny Valencia, 3B
  7. Rene Tosoni, LF
  8. Tsuyoshi Nishioka, SS
  9. Drew Butera, C

P: Nick Blackburn


Much better defensively. Hopefully Jim remembers on Fisters next start. Actually Betemit’s bat might be more helpful today than Don Kelly’s glove with JV on the hill.
I know JL feels he needs to keep everbody busy, and there is sense to that. I feel very good about Ramon getting the go at 2nd.

All true, Dan, but why does he play this defense with Verlander? It’s the other guys that need it. JL’s selection of daily lineups and batting orders are constantly questioned for a reason, whether he likes it or not. I get tired of doing it myself. Maybe he’s trying to wear us down…… Actually, he’s just stacking lefties against Blackburn. Has nothing to do with defense. At least it brought Avila higher.
Now let’s start on that six game winning streak.

Actually, the lefty-right splits off Blackburn are pretty similar: .292 vs. lefties, .305 vs. righties. But the walk rate is higher against lefties.

wow… you would think Blackburn would have a higher era than 4.34

Justin doesn’t look super sharp here in the 1st inning anyway?

He gutted that inning out and it has to be farm ore frustrating to Minny than to us!

I’ll tell you what frustrates me is your ace pitcher has to throw 29 pitches and your first two batters ground out easily and quickly on 6 pitches. Jackson I don’t know?

We have no infield and I just cannot believe they gave Valencia a hit on that instead of giving kelly an error?

Cy Blackburn is on the mound tonight I guess! Tigers are putting the fear of god in him. I like Don Kelly but so far he botched a play at hbird whether he was given an error or not and grounds into a double play? Geez!

Let’s squeeze Verlander a little more ump? Seriously some of these pitches he has called balls are crazy. He is successfuly helping the twins drive up the pitch count tonight isn’t he?

Did you see those first 2 pitches he called strikes on Santiago?

60 pitches in 3 innings is not a good sign for JV.

God we always have that contact play on and time and time again we have a weak ab by the guy at the plate and we run into an out at the plate. Come up empty all the time there?

Cabrera finally came through that inning but it sure doesn’t look like the Tigers are going to have any player with 30 homeruns or 100 rbis this year. That wouldn’t be so bad if there was more of a team effort in the HR and RBI categories.

Really? Cabrera is hitting .320 with 23 HRs and 78 RBI on August 16. And you are compaining? I think he will hit 30 and 100. 30 HRs playing in the CoPa is pretty good. And when your #3 hitter is in the .220s all year you can see why RBI might be down a smidge. Relax…. 31 other team would love Miguel, enjoy him.

Oh my goodness. Avila is out of sight right now. VMart had a big big hit but Avila is just pounding the ball.

Great turn of events and Peralta getting untracked is very, very important. BUT, what is Lamont doing sending VMart? He was cold stone dead at home with any kind of decent throw. The ball was hit directly at the left-fielder, Vmart was not even at 3rd when he was picking the ball up.
Huge break but what worries me is Lamont’s judgement. Especially with Victor on a wonky knee.

Another idiotic decision by Lamont. Victor should never have been waved home. It worked out OK for us because their player made a stupid mistake.

Good to see Brennan getting a strong hack up at the plate. He does not seem to be favoring the thumb.
Ramon is surprising with his power hitting right handed. Makes one wonder what Leyland will do with him tomorrow doesn’t it?

Does anyone else think young was safe at second?

Yes–I believe he was safe, Sideways slide and all!

Jv has gotten stronger as the night has progressed. Admittedly I was worried after the first few.

We needed a game like this. Anb “WE”, I mean the fans here on this BLOG!!!
The losses and 1 run wis are tough on the BP.

I’d be giving our pen some work here and try to give JV just a little more rest so that if I change my mind about pitching him in the Clevleland series, I could.

We needed a game like this. And by “WE”, I mean the fans here on this BLOG!!!
The losses and 1 run wins are tough on the BP (blood pressure).

I just had to correct those typos!!!

Glad the bats are back hot! Took my 1-month old to his first game on monday -> disappointing…..but noteworthy (alex, HR’s, tHome 599/600). Hope Delmon is the answer to the lineup woahs

Also by taking him out you avoid a great performance becoing just a good one..
I must say I would often do things a bit differently than JL.

That’s too bad. He deserved a shutout tonight.

damn can we turn fu te ni into a 2B?

I don’t think I have ever seen a guy who hits the ball hard like Boesch but so often getting hits taken away from him. Doesn’t hit it right at the infielders all the time but close enough I guess.

Inge has homered again for The hens he has 2 hits tonight and Rhymes shook off the disappointment with 4 hits.

Santiago hit well and made no errors at 2nd. Tomorrow he will sit and Raburn will be back. Who is the poor starting pitcher?

After eight consecutive 1-run wins, we had this one coming. The most amazing thing about Verlander is his consistency. He’s able to overcome rough starts like tonight like few I’ve ever seen in the past few decades. Those numbers on consecutive 100-pitch games are astonishing.
Santiago…………..he’s spent nearly his entire career sitting on Jim Leyland’s bench. He’s won a starting infield spot more times than I can remember. He’s a superior defender to most of the guys he’s watched from that bench and hits as well as many of them. More game sense than nearly all of them. And still he soldiers on. Incredible guy, Ramon.

the 411 is Santiago doesn’t have the stamina to be a starter

No heartburn, gut twisting end. Easy win. So nice for a change.

When that tequila commercial comes on, does anyone else want to reach through the TV and slap that guy up the side of the head? Here’s a dude that’s dressed in a suit, sitting by himself in either a bar or alone in his own rec room and he’s talking down to US? Dennis Leary you’re not, brother.

Tony Soprano’s nephew. What’s not to like. I loved him in “187”.

Rich – I LOVE that guy! He was in that Detroit 187 show this past season so am guessing maybe that is why they keep running it during Tiger games.

Way to go Ramon and all the Tigers tonight. JV seems to be getting much better run support this year than in the past. I tried looking on the baseball reference page but could not find the stat for that. Just my perception, but his dominance plus some better hitting for him at times is really something.

Nice thing about the Tigers now versus May is the losing streaks are much shorter, a very good thing.

I never heard of the guy. Perception is everything. They assume everyone watched that show, I guess. I never heard of the show either.

Did you watch “The Soprano’s”? Must be you didn’t or you would recognize him. He was a big star coming to Detroit. Michael Imperioli.

The stress tonight is the Cleveland ChiSox game. Bottom of 9 now and tied.
Chicago had the lead but gave it up on 3 balls soft hit balls that caused trouble.
Personally I’d like to see the Sox best the Tribe in this series.
The Tribe looked loose and relaxed even when they were down in the 9th.

Cleveland ties it in the 9th…………on a botched game ending DP grounder to Beckham. A physical AND mental error. Nah, 2ndbase defense ain’t important.

Leadoff triple in the bottom of the 11th and the Tribe escaped.
This Cleveland team worries me becasue they seem to hav efate firmly on their side.

I hope the Sox win but the Cleveland looks to have the magic this year. I hope we catch it.

Sox had a 1 out double in the 12th and stranded him.
Casper hit ANOTHER one for Seattle tonight. # games in a row now I think. Furbush has one 2 games for them too.

Very happy for both Charlie and Casper. But, one thing to remember is that they are in a different division. They are the new guys in town. Both of them may have great success and/or just be average after other teams make adjustments. Casper sure looks good to Oakland. They probably love him.

Mixed up. Scotty went to Oakland? Casper to Seattle. Yea, the Mariners fans got to love him. He can hit and they were desperate…..just like we are. Still, they are all in a new division so that is usually a benefit having an unknown entity and the other teams don’t know anything about him. We did give up a lot for that new pitcher. He sounds like a very down to earth but competitive guy. Sure hope he comes around.
I worry if we don’t win the division, Verlander will become disallusioned, like Greinke, and want to go to another team. I can’t bear the thought of it.

Sox win!!!!!!!!!!

Pup, I worry about that too all the time with JV.

Here is another perspective on Delmon Young.
(from aaronggleeman.com)
“There’s no doubt that trading Matt Garza, Jason Bartlett, and Eduardo Morlan to the Rays for Delmon Young, Brendan Harris, and Jason Pridie on November 28, 2007 was a big mistake. It was a bad move at the time, as the Twins undervalued Garza and Bartlett while overlooking Young’s considerable flaws as part of his supposed upside, and in the four years since then it has proven to be one of the most lopsided missteps in team history.

At various points along the way the Twins surely could have gotten a decent return by trading Young, particularly following a 2010 season in which he hit .298/.333/.493 with 21 homers, 46 doubles, and a bunch of RBIs. But they didn’t and he took several massive steps backward this year. Trading for Young was a mistake and not trading him after last season was too, but once those poor decisions were made yesterday’s decision to dump him was a sound one.

Young was a No. 1 pick and universally regarded as an elite prospect, but those days are long gone. Now he’s a 25-year-old veteran of 2,800 plate appearances and has hit .289/.322/.426 with meager power, zero plate discipline or strike-zone control, awful defense, and laughably bad baseball instincts. He’s also being paid $5.38 million this season and would be in line for a raise to at least $6 million next season via arbitration, with free agency looming in 2013.

There’s nothing the Twins could do to erase their previous bad decisions regarding Young, but the mistake now would have been keeping him for another season at that price. Too little too late, but the Twins finally came to the realization that he shouldn’t be in their long-term plans and that left them three options. They could trade him now, they could try to trade him shortly after the season, or they could non-tender him this winter.

They chose the one option with a guaranteed return, minimal as it may be, trading him to the Tigers for minor leaguer Cole Nelson, a player to be named later, and around $1.25 million in savings. Nelson was a 10th-round pick in last year’s draft out of Auburn and the Edina native is a 6-foot-7 southpaw with plus fastball velocity and mediocre numbers at Single-A, so he’s a decent second-tier prospect. I’m told the player to be named later will be “nobody special.”

By trading Young within the division the Twins made it clear they no longer believe his oft-cited potential is likely to arrive and it’s difficult to argue otherwise about a poor defensive corner outfielder with a .426 slugging percentage and 12 homers per 500 at-bats. Since he joined the Twins in 2008 the only player in all of baseball with more plate appearances and a lower Wins Above Replacement total than Young is Yuniesky Betancourt. Seriously.

Even in 2010, his lone quality season in four years with the Twins, he was merely a good but not great hitter whose putrid defense wiped away much of his offensive value. That year there were 64 total corner outfielders, first basemen, and designated hitters with at least 500 plate appearances and Young ranked 46th in on-base percentage, 23rd in slugging percentage, and 27th in OPS. And in the three surrounding seasons Young slugged .401.

Perhaps it’ll click for Young in Detroit or his next home after that, but he got ample opportunity to show he’s more than just another bad-glove, good-bat corner outfielder and couldn’t even consistently accomplish the good-bat part. Young’s flaws on and off the field mean his bat has to be special and it’s barely been average. There’s a reason the Twins got so little for him and it’s the same reason their trade for him was such a mistake: Young simply isn’t very good.

Wow, that was obviously written by Delmon’s biggest fan. Sounds like the guy was upset about the Rays trade and took it out on Young. I suppose 112 RBI is not very good.

And I thought we were the only fans that saw our players as “just not quite good enough”.
As to Delmon, I supect thee is some truth to the disenchantment noted above but I see a guy who absolutely devoured us at the end of the season in 09 and then went on to place top 10 in MVP last year.
I know he is flawed but that does seem to be a requirement to be a Detroit Tiger anyway. The last guy here who was flawless was SIX

I think it’s obvious from the article that the pressure is now off him. I think he is worth using next year (full time OF), but he MUST – MUST play RF instead of LF (LF is much larger). His defense i’m sure is a) better than Raburn and b) as good as Maggs. His bat is better than both at the moment.

I think this is a great deal for the Tigers and at 25 he still has a chance to develop. There is no pressure on him to live up to being a top pick or being traded for two guys that put up super years. I think it will help him to already have a training buddy on the Tigers who is a hard worker in Boesch. Brennan has improved his defense and plate disclipline. I would rather see Young hitting 6th and Boesch 3rd. Ramon is an ideal 2 hole hitter and we need his defense more than the potential of Rayburn’s bat.

Ramon won’t be an everyday starter – doesn’t have the stamina

How’s the Kool-Aid Evan?

lol so goooooooooood. if the kool aid is ramon doesn’t have the stamina – shoot i’d would have made him my ‘everyday’ years ago (read: instead of everett at SS or when Omar left at 2B) but that’s the word i remember someone knowledgeable telling me ………then good. What’s your kool aid over there telling you about the outcome of the Buehrle / Carmona bout down south tonight?


I would also bat ramon santiago 2nd when he plays. I would also move austin jackson down to 7th or 8th for awhile untill he finds his swing again. Maybe lead off kelly when he plays. He has good speed. But hey its easy to coach from the internet.

lol – jackson bats BETTER (.311 OBP) than Kelly (.288 OBP). smh.

Wow, I thought this was supposed to be a respectful blog.

? fuck you mean?

Okay, got more time than I did a couple of hours ago.
I’m hearing that Santiago will be in the starting lineup again tonight. I wouldn’t read too much into it, but JL does have a problem now that he’s overloaded with outfielders. Raburn’s PT will most likely have to come in the infield and I’m not sure Jim wants to continue with that on a daily basis.
There is some precedence here. JL leaned heavily on Ramon during the 2006 postseason and also during the 2007 stretch run trying to catch Cleveland. “Like I said” (JL 2011), don’t read too much into it. Something that bears watching at this point.
Regarding Santiago wearing down, that’s never been proven in the past 8 years. He is 5’11” and 175 pounds, plenty big enough for a baseball player. He’s not as small as he looks. Most ballplayers used to be his size.

had nothing to do with his size it was just an explanation from a seeming solid source and it explained why he hasn’t gotten a starter position in this his 8th yr with detroit

“that’s never been proven” – how would that happen? would they just come out and say “hey santiago is sweet but if he plays 4 days in a row he can’t even practice he’s so wiped” – idk prolly not.

Well, Dombrowski himself said it, so that’s a pretty solid source. Doesn’t mean I agree with it. That’s his opinion or at least what he said on record. There’s a lot of politician in Dave. Goes with the job.
We’ve been discussing this here for years.

said what?

I thought Betemit was the “everyday third baseman”? Is that supposed to be just the every days with that start with a M or something? This is getting silly. Why does Leyland insist on hardly playing him?

BAD DEFENSE!!! did you freaking see monday’s ballgame? He’s the everyday we have a pitcher who doesn’t need good defense (verlander, sherzer) 3rd Basemen or if we have decently defensive guys playing SS/2B (e.g. Jhonny and Ramon) and NOT raburn playing behind him in LF.

You don’t get to the show if you don’t have stamina. The truth about Ramon is that JL doesn’t think he can do the job. I guess that’s his prerogative. All the talk about stamina and not being a “burner” and such is smokescreen for JL so he doesn’t have to say A) “He’s not good enough” or B) “He’s not one of my favourites”.
JL likes the role he’s invented for Ramon. What JL likes JL gets.
Wilson Betemit must wonder what he has to do to play regularly. Doesn’t seem to matter if it’s a LHP or RHP. He’s done OK but the rrors, and the K’s will be reason enough for JL to segue back to who he really wants to see at 3B. I think we know the how that story goes.
I like getting Dirks in there today. Good idea to reast Austin I think.
BTW Austin has at least been getting better at bats and has not been striking out for a while now. He’s also not been stealing bases.
One observation I have with Austin is how tall he is stands in the box and in his swing. It lends to not being able to reach the low strike and the uppercut swing. I wonder if he were to compact himself, bend his knees a bit and drive his hips into the pitch if he would be able to hit more line drives.

is there any chance you make up these things about JL in your head? you treat him like a step father who always does the wrong thing

Looks like the Ruffin rumor was right. I was glad they did not give up Drew Smyly. He looks like he could be the lefty in the rotation by mid 2012 or 2013.

Ruffin sent to Seattle to complete the Fister/Pauley trade.
It looks to me like the Mariners will get 4 MLB players out of that deal. They like power arms in the pen and Ruffin will fit in there.

who determines PTBNL? we got so so so so hosed on that deal

It was likely decided when the trade was made, but cannot be official until a year after Ruffin signed his pro contract.

hmm ok fair enough thnx

Hopefully those worries about Ramon wearing down will be thrown out with only six weeks to go. The second base defense without him is bush league. It appears that Leyland goes with Kelly against tougher right handers. Betemit did not play a lot the previous month or two before he got to Detroit. Maybe, playing all weekend in Baltimore wore him out.

I don’t think Betemit looks wore out. He was making good contact Monday and even got a sacrifice….I was at the game. The theory that he “only plays behind a pitcher who doesn’t need good defense” is hooey considering it was Porcello…the ultimate groundball pitcher…on the mound the last time he played (8/15)…Rayburn was at 2nd and making more errors. I fear I share Dan’s implication that Betemit is merely a placeholder until Leyland gets his son Brandon back on 3B in September…

yeah and we lost that game due to bad defense. Wilson got the 1st error and that run scored. :/

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