2nd degree thumb sprain for Boesch

That’s the word from Tigers head athletic trainer Kevin Rand coming out of Thursday morning’s MRI exam. It isn’t a serious sprain, but it’s more than a minor one, if that makes sense.

Boesch said he doesn’t think it’s serious, though he suggested the hand specialist who examined him again Thursday morning might suggest otherwise.

Boesch is considered day-to-day. The first task is to get the swelling down, Rand said, then work on getting range of motion back in the thumb. He won’t do anything today, and while he’s hoping he can pick up a bat tomorrow, that isn’t a given. At this point, a DL stint sounds highly unlikely.

“I’m cautiously optimistic I’ll be back in the lineup a lot sooner than the doctor who just saw me might expect,” Boesch said.


Darn, I probably won’t see him in Baltimore. He’s interesting, that’s for sure.
We need to stop this ridiculous streak in Cleveland. You expect maybe a KC or a Baltimore might have a similar streak in Fenway Park, but Detroit in Cleveland? Is this some kind of joke?

First chnace to get to a keyboard since the earlier post – least it gave a topic to chew on besides the recent results.🙂
Thanks for the book Rich and no I haven’t read it, not surprised about the pressure on the home plate umpire, though amazing it isn’t made more of an issue.
No other game comes remotely close to having it’s outcome decided on by subjective umpiring calls.
Actually, I have pretty much stopped looking at the stats and just watch the games. The only stats that interests me relate to how in heck the SOC keeps managing.
With less than 6 months from turning 50, maybe I have already joined the SOC.

I think the next closest to baseball would be basketball and soccer, as far as the officiating determining an outcome. Basketball has the charging vs blocking foul thing, and soccer has that strange “extra time” business.
When determining a call, nearly all officials are working against determining the outcome. They resist that. Example: hockey penalties not being called so much in OT. I wish Jim Joyce had stuck to that thinking last June.

I hope this trade picks up for us soon. I wasn’t overjoyed with the names but was pretty happy they paid attention to the needs being filled. I still maintain that what we also needed a game-changing infielder.
The problem I had with Fister/Pauley is the lack of strikeouts. many will say this is over-rated but in fact it is far more devastating an arsenal than being a groundball specialist.
It literally ends rallies, defensive miscues, poor decisions in the field, and it puts fear in the minds of the hitter that just K’s as well as the one coming up to bat.
I think it is great to have a Fister or Porcello type. Porcello may eventually end up with a strikeout pitch–it actually took JV a little while to get there.
But, we don’t have the infield range or gloves to support that style of pitching.
This is one of the beefs I have with Dombrowski. He has not ‘designed” a team for the ball park nor the needs. We have a double and triples park that lends itself to teams with speed and speed in the outfield. The fences are not really conducive to the long ball yet we are chock full of guys who are at least sized, built and aged as though they are.
We have a rotation with no LHP in it, yet we are in a division with guys like Dunn, Pierzynski, Morneau, Mauer Kubel, Thome, Haffner, Choo, Sizemore, to name a few and none of the Royal’s up and coming quality LHB.
Boesch is hurt, man they would be very wise to not diagnose this with blinders on and rush him back.

Bad news about Boesch. His ability to hit the long ball which appearently the only wa they win games. I was shocked at how poor Porcello pitched last night and will cry if Verlander pitches bad (for him). I will cry if the hitters don’t get their heads out of their colective butts. As Jimenez is not that good this year Carmona is much worse. No excuses.

AJ on 2nd and JL predictably refuses to bunt. As difficult as it has been for us to score runs and given that JV is on the mon. That should be a no-brainer.

Regarding beefs with DD, I think his excellent organisational skills that truly involve his people has probably overidden his own personal views. The overpriced poor extensions after 2006 I think stung him badly. The 2007 post season Miggy trade would not have been made without Mr I’s initiative.
The last two or so years team moves seem to be about giving the manager everything he wants.
Stupid to think the season rests on tonight but if the team can’t lift with Justin, it never will.

Boy, I’d take Carmona and Jimenez on my team in a NY minute.

But the thing is they only pitch well against us, check out those era’s!

Well this is what I took out of our first ab’s. Maggs hit it hard but the rest were very weak. Exactly what you don’t want to see against Carmona, his sinker working. Cabrera has been disappointng the last several weeks.

That’s a good start. Betemit is showing he should be playing and I think even JL sees that now. Pleasantly surprised with the squeeze and quite surprised that AJ excectued it to “tell you the truth”.
JV is not likely to have a cakewalk here today as the Tribe have gotten tom as often as not in the past. So pour the runs on offense.

Nice squeeze! Nice inning

Betemit has failed to hit only twice in his past 10 games and is .310/.370/.452 as a Tiger. Yet he shares with Ramon for having the least AB’s – 9 in 6 games over the past week.

Jacob Turner ran into some trouble in Toledo early. Gave up a 3-run HR (nobody has ever found out when we las had one of those) and is behind 4-0.
Guillen hits into a DP and the Tribe get out of major trouble. We need a shutdown inning now for sure.

More wasted oportunity in that inning.

No surprise there. JL does not like them. He wants Cringe back soon so he can put Betemit to warm bench every game
He sticks with failed players but rests those who have a good game.

I hate to pick on the ump but JV had Kipnis and he had Marston twice on strikes with the hook. To Cabrera’s credit, he hit a rope down in the count. JV has lost his cushio.
Classic Indian baseball. Take advantage of the walks (which hardly ever happens) and it’s a brand new game.

3 runs tagged on Verlander.Only third inning. And on a pace for no more than six innings. That game against California began the second part of the season mealtdown

Tigers generally have to have 10 hits to score 3 runs–Indians? 2 hits; 3 runs.
That’s taking advantage.

Typical Tigers—give up a couple you shouldn’t have then come up to bat and give the opposition an easy inning. The Tribe think they own this game now.
No comment about Twinkle Toes in RF.

I’d be real surprised if JV doesn’t get into a little chin-wagging with this ump before it’s all over.

Well I guess that nobody including not showing up this series. Typical Tigers squander chances for more runs and Verlander walks 2 and let’s Cleveland right back in it just that quick. And to put the icing on the cake for me what did Carmona thbrow about 7 or so pitches the top of that next inning? God. They give me a headache most days and they haven’t been a whol lotof fun to watch this year and heck they are in 1st place?

God I am horrible! That’s nobody including the ace Verlander is showing up this series.

Great at bat by Cabrera there in the 5th, swung at 3 straight pitches practically in the dirt. Geez?

Man, the hitters (for lack of a better word) are back at it with lousy at bats. The momentum of this game is all Clevaleand going into the bottom of the 5th.
Memo to Jim Leyland. Magglio Ordonez is not a .360 hitter anymore. Addendum to memo: he’sn not a 2.60 hitter. He is hitting in the low .200s with no power and no defense.
Please figure this out.

Please shut up about Verlander tonight – save the gushing for a night when he is more deserving. Tonight he isn’t so acey like!

See that Chisenhal thought the ball was going to be caught? Crazy that he thought that was a routine groundball! This is the Tigers infield ya know!

So the ump is going to start squeezing JV too! Horrible throw by Alex.

We’re going to the 6th now and it hight time this team showed it’s mettle. Determinatin, cohesivness, execution, plate discipline. This is supposed to be a pennant race and not an accident.

Dan you are either crazy or an eternal optimist.

Everytime I hear Fausto Carmona, I always remember that HR Pudge hit off him. They went wild in the CoPa over that one……… almost 6 years ago.

I was at that game! You could feel the stadium shaking and I was in the lower bowl. Actually the night before that had a walk off against him ( I think it was Craig Monroe). I was there that night too!

Loving the generous strike zone that Carmona seems to be getting. (The at bat to Peralta). Peralta was walked (should of been that is). And we would probably have another run right now with that double off of Guillens bat instead Avila strands a runner?

Carmona seems to have found a groove. let’s hope the pitch count does him in. But do they really want to see the bullpen again? Then JV is not pitching well and his count is climbing too. With a 1-run lead any little mistake or error could codt the game.

I am a little crazy to keep watching this team and their manager and deluding myself into thinking they have a chance with no speed and no defense, no fundamentals and inconsistent hitting.

JV is really hurting himself tonight trying to go inside. The ump is not gonna call those pitches.

jv may have nine strike outs but to say he isn’t pitching that great?

What is Verlander thinking? He can’t throw this guy the fastball. What a break!

Well another walks another. Santana almost made him pay again if not for his JV geez!

Seriously need to read before I post. That’s if not for the help of AJ? My typing is as bad as the Tigers!

I don’t like the “feel” of this game. The hitting has evaporated once again. JV seems vulnerable tonight, and Cleveland just might want this game a bit more than we do.

Unfortunately agreed Dan!

If Ordonez is ever gonna hit it should be now with Carmona tiring and a 2-0 count

This is it. right here in the bottom of the 7th. JV has to have a dominating inning.
The Indians are determined to get to him. You can see it in their at bats.

It would be nice to see Cab have a decent at bat to start things off here. And Carlos needs to finally do something. Another ball hit to him today that he should have grabbed (the play that ended up in the Ordonez-Peralta force out). He’s very slow off the bat. It has proably been a difficult road to how for Carlos coming back from that injury and the inactivity but there is too much on the line for Detroit in these next 2 months. If he can get it together he’ll help, but how long can you wait with Ordonez, Jackson struggling and Cabby under performing too?

I have given up hoping that Maggs is going to figure it out. I know he is getting older but is seems to be a rather drastic drop in production. Last year before he went down he was hitting the ball rather well and now there isn’t anything there really.
Don’t like the fact that JV is coming out.

The poor at bats continue. Very frustrating. It seems like we can’t even hit a long ball any more.
We’ve been lucky this game. AJ bailed JV out with that catch off Santana’s bat.
Oh crap—Benoit in now.

One inning longer than projected

Nice play by Cabby there!

Valverde can get that Tiger record of 33 connsecutive saves, beat the Tribe and give JV his 100th victory.
Fingers firmly crossed.
Hopefully Leyland helps him out by inserting Santiago in for Guillen at 2nd.
I wouldn’t be surprised he pulls the Dirks-Raburn-Guillen swap but that is not the move to make. Santiago is the guy you want there for the 9th.

Jackson is so lost up at the plate.

Come on Pappa. Keep it up!

Well it never felt good, but a win is a win I suppose that’s all that counts.

JV only gave up only 3 hits. Benoit and Valverde were excellent.
But where are our hitters?
They have to get Ordonez out of there. Might be a little harder for Leyland to do that with Boesch ailing but you have to face facts when they are staring at you.
Raburn has picked up his game. Looking way more reliable defensively too.
We were fortunate today against Carmona—he absolutely shut us down after that bad inning. He was arguabley as good as Verlander after that time.
Wish baseball had a designated fielder rule.
Thank you Jose. I still don’t know how he does it but he does and lately he has been throwing a lot more strikes.

Well, they kept the Tribe 3 games back. Only one game of advantage lost

That one had “crushing loss” written all over it, didn’t it? I think the team AND the fans gutted that one out. That was about as important a game as you’ll see on August 11th of a season. Not for the standings but just to get a win in Cleveland.
I think Betemit needs to be plugged in at 3rdbase permanently. He’s not a perfect solution but at least he hits some. Quit fooling around with that position, Jim, and let Kelly do what he does best: super-sub. And you need to tweak that batting order if you want to score much at all. Surprisingly aggressive call on that squeeze play. Good thing it worked, hey?
Verlander was off most of the night and we did as we usually do by going away from our original game plan against Carmona. And sure enough, there he was pitching the 7th inning, just like I said earlier.
Nice athletic catch by Jackson, pretty.
We hit no homers in the entire series, and only one on the entire road trip, Avila on Friday night. That just won’t do. You’d think someone would run into one by accident. We’ll need some longball in Baltimore because the O’s sure will hit some. One homer would have won us Tuesday’s game and the series.
Speaking of that, what’s up with Cabrera? And Victor? Ordonez? No homers anymore?
The Cleveland hitters spent more time whining about the strike zone than hitting. Sure it was bad. On both sides. Deal with it. By the end, they were hopping up and down on strikes right down the middle. Funny.
On to Baltimore. I’ll pack some homers in my bag and bring ’em to the park.

I noticed all the whining by the Indian’s hitters too and that tells me they might be too young to compete. I know Leyland is saying Cleveland is for real, but I am more conserned with the pale hose.

Thank goodness we won. You were our good luck charm the last game you went to, Rich. Bring us some wins. Go Tigers!!!!!!!!!

JL went to some length to explain why he pulled Verlander after seven. I was actually okay with that decision and here’s why: I thought JV prrrobably could get through the 8th, but I was concerned that if his pitch count got too high or if he got into some trouble, Benoit would have to come in with runners on. I said a couple weeks ago that I prefer him to start his own inning with a clean slate. I don’t know how Joe Maddon used him, but I only remember him pitching entire innings. Anyway, that was my thinking and I’m sure some will disagree. There are a number of times when JL and I are on the same page. Scarey, hey?

I was thrilled with the W. Had the rotation set for me to see Verlander tomorrow night in Baltimore. i guess that off day messed me up. So now I get to see Brad penny work his magic in a night game. Sure hope some defense and hitting show up. And this Oriole pitcher is the kind to give us problems if he’s on. Seems like that’s every game now. Congrats to JV for #100 at an early stage of a hall of fame career.

No home runs, but we did get to see the beauty of a perfectly placed bunt.

Question: what’s the difference between John Adams beating on that drum and piping loud rock music into the ballpark during game action? Maybe we should all bring cowbells to the game.
Question: why would we plan to start Porcello against Cleveland next weekend and not Verlander?

Gutsy call by Leyland to score a 4th run when they were up 3 already. Kudos to him on that one.
BUT-the 1st inning we were presented with an unwarranted gift when AJ reached 2nd base on the throwing error.
Leyland had man on 2nd nobody out. They have had trouble scoring runs. they had a fast runner on 2nd. They needed to get him to 3rd for the 3 and 4 hitters.
JL refused to bunt. A lucky break on a bad swing allowed AJ to reach 3rd from where he scored. That’s exactly what a sac bunt would have done.
We were lucky to get that run. They should have bunted but Leyland is such a SOC he just doesn’t see the necessity of it.

A sign of a great pitcher is having a bad game (as far as control for walks) and still giving up few runs. JV has learned that on the nights he doesn’t quite have it to still pitch effectively. I applaud the move of Benoit/Valverde even if JV was in, that is what those guys are supposed to do. Had Justin been a bit better maybe not but good call.

Too bad about Boesch, hope it is just a game or two, he is a good spark to have on the team.

Maggs’ play from the outfield was great – the one thing he does well in the outfield is get rid of the ball very quickly. Even on those up the line that get by him, he turns and fired immediately while other guys hold it or crow-hop too much. Doesn’t mean he should be in the outfield most the time but hie does have some smarts out there. We got a lucky break on that one though with the runner stuck in no-mans land.

I was happy to see the double by Carlos, but he looked nervous he might not get there in time!

Nice win no matter what it looked like.

I am going to start playing a betting game each day to see what face Alex brings, that man can grow facial hair while the game is going on.

Honestly, I can’t think of anyone in my life who grows a beard faster than Alex. He probably hates having to shave all the time. Didn’t know he had Cuban roots until they aired that story a few days ago. I think it was his Grandpa, who still looks pretty good, that came over. What a great player we got with him. I never imagined last year he would make so many improvements. He’s a blessing for our team.
Maggs is geting bashed something awful, but he does still have a great arm. His stats have always shown him to at least average OF despite some people’s opinion and one of the reasons is once he gets the ball, he’s oneof the fastest to get it out of his mitt and make a good throw. Stilll has a great arm. Doesn’t have the bat speed like he used to, though.

Watched the end of the game after golf league. We won, I don’t care how. I will not question the manager. The players need to step up. Carlos I am not sure about. It is painful to watch Maggilo because we all have watched him hit over the years. The Tigers really need that win so again it is time to see what they are made of. Go Tigers! –Dave

I admit to being one of those tough on Magglio. In my own defense, I have been feeling this way for a couple of years now and not just since his injury.
He is a great guy and he was a great ballplayer and a pure hitter. Those are facts.
I believe to win in this division we will need, speed, enthusiasm, good baserunning and more outs made in right field. I think Magglio can still play a role, but not a regular one, on the team. Much of my criticism of Magglio is not even reallly his fault. It is Leyland’s. Leyland gets fixated in SOC mode about the way he thinks and wants things to be and to work. He has it in his mind that Maggs should hit 3rd.
He absolutley should not be hitting 3rd.
If he plays he should be hitting in the 6 or 7 spot and he should be replaced with a runner and defensively in the 7th or 8th inning.
Dirks can inject this team with something. He will need more reps than he is getting to provide that. It’s time. We need some creativity on the base paths, some threat on the paths. Especially when the long ball is not happening. And it is not, however many people say it is, a long ball team. We have guys that can hit the long ball but the frequency and the timing of those long balls has not been a major part of the team’s identity.
This is why Raburn may become important. Because he is one guy , who out of nowhere, can provide the bomb.
Back to the 3rd spot. I really feel it would be most advantageious to have Boesch hitting there. He has provne he hit there rather well earlier. Now I don’t know why but it seems to me that since Magglio has become entrenched in the 3 hole Cabby has not hit as well. I have no theory why but I do know when Brennan AND Cabby were back-to-back the lineup seemed to be very imposing.
Kaline/Cash? Mantle/Maris? I don’t know but there was something going on then.
The upcoming series with Baltimore will be a bigo one for the Seattle boys. Fister needs to assert himself prominently into the rotation.
Pauley may benefit from being able to throw in a little less pressure.
Our hitters are still not pulling their weight. We need a couple of guys in the lineup to start tearing it up.
We also need more of Santiago as a late inning defensive replacment. I don’t like Carlos out there much but his switch-hitting and experience at the plate may yet be helpful.

Dirks, Santiago, Cabrera, Martinez, Kelly(for Boesch), Peralta, Avila, Betimit, Jackson. You know the positons they play. With 2 potential hitters on the bench sad to say in Guillen and Ordonez. That would be my every day line up from my arm chair.🙂 Notice the lefty/righty/switch hitter combo. This line up would win the division and extend my contract for sure.

The usual lineup tonight with Andy Dirks in the role of Brennan Boesch.

True enough Rich, but actually him batting 2nd (or 1st) may be useful.. I wouldn’t mind seeing him bat 2nd and Boesch 3rd I can tell you.
Meanwhile Cab has to start picking this team up. He is striking out too much and is far short of his accomplishments of last year.
In 2010 Cabby was:
1st in RBIs
2nd in Average
2nd in Slugging
4th in homers.
This year he is:
22nd in RBIs
12th in Average
0th in Slugging
19th in homers

In 2010 Cabby was:
1st in RBIs
2nd in Average
2nd in Slugging
4th in homers.
This year he is:
22nd in RBIs
12th in Average
10th in Slugging
19th in homers

Just saw the scarey scene on the field with AL. Oh boy I hope it isn’t too serious, but I can’t imagine it won’t require a DL trip? But first and foremost I hope he is okay regardless of hope it affects the tigers.
Cabrera to me since the allstar break has been beyond disappointing, and nobody is talking about it! Let’s but it this way when I checked yesterday Raburn has more rbi’s in August than Miggy. He is shrinking and fast and he is striking out and grounding out weakly way way to much. Truth be told he isn’t the only one on the team to me that is shrinking.

Again a waste of a promising start.

1st inning (other than Dirks) showcased station-to-station baseball. How it results in fewer runs and double plays.
That was an inning that should have seen a crooked number. Peralta has lost his clutch RBI touch.
I hope JL finds a lucky Penny today.

Not a great start by Penny walk the 1st batter – um who happens to be batting 225 and wham a 2 run homer! Crap

Penny is done before he starts. They are gonna hammer him today—hard.

Find the strike zone Penny!!

Masterson is pitching for the Tribe. Fister ought to be pitching for the Tigers

Can’t argue with that.

Nice play by Betemit????? Geez are you kidding me on that?

Penny has nothing tonight.

1st and 3rd and AJ needs to come through and not whiff again.

Interesting listening to Price & Dickerson. (I can’t get the TV feed).
They are being overtly critical of the lineup. (and other things-like Avila’s non-slide).
Price says time has passed Orodonez by. He a good guy a loyal Tiger but not driving the ball and should not be batting 3rd. Price mentioned that Avila can handle that assignment rather well and Dickerson adding that Boesch is hitting almost .340 there and only .220 btting 2nd.
So, It’s not just us here complaining.
As to Boesch–I am a bit worried about the fact he is hitting only .211 post All–Star. Frightenting to be reminded of what happend similarly last year.
Bat him 3rd JL and fix this lousy lineup.

the radio guys are terrific at telling it like it is, I appreciate that so much over the sugar-coating on tv.

2nd inning they let em off the hook again. The new name for the Tigers should be ” the sweet singles tigers”.

Well Penny used as his excuse that it was starting in the daytime. What’s his excuse now?

Probably the saddest stat on Maggs is he is now down to 17.9% of hits going for extra bases, almost half on his career average of 34.6%.

Simon has thrown 70 pitches in 3 inning. He has given up 6 hits of course all singles and walked 2. Only 2 runs scored?

Tomorrow Benemit will be rested


When you have 4 snails in your lineup, without any homers you are always going to need a ton of hits.

Heck of a throw I guess, but I don’t think that Weiters tagged him? Boy I just don’t think so?

Regardless, the O’s were pretty darn lucky what with the ground rule double, throw out at home, and snag on a hard hit ground ball.
Fortunate indeed and we do not have nearly enough runs to support Penny.

O’s announcers also questioning whether Ordonez’s legs will allow him to get to a ball like Wieter’s double.
I think some things are pretty evident to those that are not blinding their own eyes or managing based on heart not head.

Dan talked about Miggy’s troubles at the plate, also. Not hitting the way he used to, feet moving all over the place, etc.

Actually, it was Jim that said that.

He looks better tonight. Now if only to get Peralta going.

Is there any team information about Alburquerque?

Concussion staying in the hospital overnight for observation. They will have to put him on the DL

Couple of questions for anyone watching the game:
Did AJ run hard on the DP flyout?
Did JL congratulate Betemit after his HR or did he keep his back to him?
Inquiringi minds want to know!

O’s lucky to be behind by only 2—could be 3 or 4 more easily.

Twins defensive sinking but Pavano held it 1-1

Al has a concussion. Keeping him over night. Have to say I’d rather see Rayburn over Guillen. I like dirks in 2 hole. Would be nice to see Jackson, Dirks, Boesch, Cab, Victor, Peralta, Avila, Bettemit, Rayburn. And on days Jim feels compelled to play Maggs bat him 6th and move Rayburn to the 2 hole.


Maybe I should say we’re lucky we’re still tied.

Dan, do you think Maggs might be better used coming off bench as a PH. It seems to me you can count on him for a good at bat in big situations.

8 stranded runners, I would lik to say unbelievable but it really it isn’t. Penny doesn’t have any excuses left? An era over 5.00 unacceptable. And we have even more bad luck with Dirks being thrown out at 3rd!

Two batters too much for Masterson and the Tribe is losing. He pitched to two lefties , the second with two outs in the eight and the last made him pay

I am just about sick of JJ Hardy tonight!

So Dirks doesn know that you wait until the ball is off the infield to run to third.Lack of fundamentals

It is not bad luck when you play the wrong way

No exactly true usually if it is hit to that side the runer does advance easily to 3rd, the short stop throws it to 1st for an easy out.

I am going to say it again. 13 hits 3 walks and on five runs. Sorry it is just unacceptable win or lose!

One batter too many for Pavano, lousy defense. Tribe up in the eight

Penny could write a book and call it “Penny Gets Pummelled”
Another DD acquisition I was not happy with.

Better hang on this one. Tribe won

1st & 3rd Ordonez up in the 8th—they should run Dirks and stay out of the DP. You know he’s gonna hit into one.

This is one crappy clutch hitting team. Hard to believe what we’ve seen tonight.
That’s too bad about Q. There is a new DL rule in force this year that allows a special 7 day DL for concussions.
They are not things to fool around with. Just ask Justin Morneau or, for that matter, Sidney Crosby.
I suspect if they put Q on that list Perry gets recalled but I wouldn’t be stunned to see JL ask for Santos at this time.
Get Santiago in the ball game!!!!

More stranded runners? What a shocker!

Jackson 3 over the wall catches in a week

I must say AJ is finally having a good day. What a catch. I won’t complain about his offense again (as long as he keeps it above .240!)

I will complain about Benoit though. 0-2 and he loses another hitter.

We’re getting a break with the O’s not pinch running for Vlad.

I think no matter who is running its a double play. Another tough break there with that out that bounces off the foot and goes right to the 1st baseman.
Come on Papa

Avila is crushing the ball and he is hitting in some pretty weirdly bad luck.
Please put Santiago in where he belongs for the 9th.

Not the way to start Valverde. I hope all the squandered runners don’t. Come back to haunt us?

Here we go runner to second, the throw wasn’t even close

Don’t let Hardy up and no wild pitches.

Come on!

Alright Jose! Wiggled out of another one!

I honestly don’t know how he does it. That fastball of Papa’s must move quite a bit. He throws one after another and gets fastball hitters out with it.
Man we beat two teams out there today the Orioles and Lady Luck.
Great to see some good at bats and the ball being hit better.
I think it’s clear that there are 2 guys in this lineup that shouldn’t be.
It will take some character on Leyland’s part to correct that.

Unfortunately it isn’t just about character its also about money. They are paying those two a lot of money so they are going to get a lot of oportunity. Coke did a nice job tonight.

This hotel is literally across the street from the ballpark and it’s somewhat disconcerting to go from a loud, albiet two thirds empty ballpark, to a quiet room in five minutes.
I was glad to get to see Jackson’s catch live. You had to see the low trajectory combined with his sprinting back, jumping, and making the grab all at the same time to truly appreciate how skilled he is at this stuff.
I think Dirks’ baserunning mistake was not knowing where the shortstop was positioned. The ball was hit well to Andy’s left but that’s right where Hardy was positioned. Rookies do these things. I won’t argue with 4 for 4 plus a walk. Great game, Andy. And good game from Jackson. He got gunned down at the plate by one of the best arms in the game, Nick Markakis.
Obviously, the numbers speak for themselves. We missed a ton of opportunities and also had plain bad luck. Avila was hitting bullets, man, bullets. Move him up in the order. Betemit fits right in. He’s a lousy defender but the man can hit. I don’t know why JL has been so resistant to playing him everyday. He can also play secondbase, by the way.
Penny is just…………….what? He gets through some scoreless innings but when you look up, he’s given up 4 runs in 5.1 innings. There’s no way anyone can spin that as effective pitching. Does anyone consider Below as the needed lefty in the rotation?
Looks to me like Valverde is throwing that fastball with pinpoint control. Best weapon in a pitcher’s arsenal, a well placed heater.
We’re down behind the dugout tomorrow. Personally, I prefer upper deck behind home like we had tonight. Best place to actually watch a ballgame.

You got to see an interesting game, Rich, and brought us a win!!! Go Tigers!!!!!!!!

Nice props to Jackson. He made the #1 highlight on MLB. Price got on Avila a little bit for running to home instead of sliding. “He should know better” according to Jim. Betemit has had several hits with RISP and then we have to watch him sit for several days. I’m not looking forward to Inge returning I hope some of our other young guys get called up as they bring alot of energy to this team.

Out of curiousity, what hotel was that and did you enjoy it?

This is the Hampton Inn, Mike, right across the street from the leftfield corner. It’s a nice hotel but it is pricey. I only do this on occasion because of that. It’s 8 floors inside what appears to be an older bulding but you wouldn’t know that when inside. There is valet parking only but there are a number of large garages in the surrounding hotels if you want your car at your disposal more quickly. It makes for a nice weekend in Baltimore with multiple games.

gk–the break I meant about not pinch running for vlad was not because of the DP, I posted that before that took place. The break was that the manager didn’t PR for him immediately after he got on. The break was the managerial mistake. In the end it didn’t matter I guess but on my team with a slow runner who is DHing for me and a run down–I PR for him. I would hope JL would do it with VMart and I expected Bucky to do it.

The hitting woke up. Let’s hope that is a good sign.

Inge is tearing things up in Toledo.

Oh I misunderstood, I guess.
Ya they hit pretty well last night, but I am disturbed by the amount of runners left on base. I am disturbed Miguel Cabrera. To me he just isn’t doing much.

Rich glad you had a great night. I like the upper deck seats to. At comerica that is where our seats are 1st row you can see te whole field and nobdy is cnstinently walking in your way.

Baltimore has really been losing quite a bit, so the Tigers better be ready for those pesky Orioles.

Leyland is a real piece of work. Quoted as saying Maggs’ play the other day was the play of the game. You know, the forceout at 2nd. I mean what did he have to do? Catch the liner off the grass in short right and throw to Peralta. What else COULD he do in that situation?
An then he follows that up with saying Penny pitched welll yesterday.
What is he watching or who is he trying to kid?
Does he think Tiger fans are from Kazakhstan?

Same lineup tonight except the role of “Carlos Guillen” will be played by Ryan Raburn. This production uses a lot of understudies.
We dodged the rain all day at the Inner Harbor and it doesn’t look good for tonight. And I’m stuck with these darned expensive tickets. I did score my Maryland crabcakes, but that might be the high point of this day.

Boy Rich the rain desnt look good and it looks even worse for tomorrow?

Whoa did they put a lot of pressure on Guthrie that 1st inning? 6 pitches I hope he didn’t get to tired out!

that a boy Lleyland. 1st & 2nd and NOBODY out, slugs on the bases, Peralta, struggling, at the plate and you let him swing away.
Smart baseball.

Max is having a rough second inning. Max just isn’t the same guy he was last year. He was outstanding most of last year and this year ya just never know what you are going to get.

Scherzer is gonna lose if he keeps throwing this many pitches. No help from Raburn, but you have to throw strikes and you have to stay in front of the hiitters.

That’s ridiculous, a guy with no power, ahead in the oount because Schezer keeps nibbling (and truthfullly should be out of the inning).
Bad baseball. Hot dog BS from Raburn, (Guillen would have done the same), and stupid pitching from Scherzer.

Spot on Dan. Hot dog move from Raburn and horrible nibbing from Max and bam 5-0? I’d like to to surprising but let’s face it, it really isn’t, par for the course!

Way to go Scherzer! Nice night! No way this team can do anything in the playoffs even if they can get there. Only pitcher you can count on is JV. The rest of them are crap and inconsistent!

Let’s think about our rotation. Fister just gave up 2 in 2 innings. Porcello got hammered, Penny performed as expected and luckily got a victory in 5 an 1/3 and now Scherzer looks like he has no clue..
1 out 5 ain’t good.

Well I wouldn’t be too disappointed if the rains came back with a vengeance in Baltimore tonight. Doesn’t look too promising from any viewpoint. Offense, defense or pitching.

You said it, it would be the merciful thing for tigers fans anyway. I swear I hate saying this but this has to be the most infuriating 1st place team to watch. Just not that fun for me to watch lately. But I can’t stop watching

I’m not making this up:
After Jacob Turner’s start in Toledo where he had mixed results, Larry Parrish said the kid was probably rusty as he hadn’t pitched in ten days.
They immediately announced his next start would be on the 21st. 10 days later!!!!

He is 19 years old. They are regulating his innings, which is smart.

Peralta is going throug a period of difficulty. Easy ground ball outs and strike outs.
Ordonez is pretty much an easy out. Guillen when he was in there.
If we hit 2 3-run homers this game I think we’ll get back in it.
BTW-when was the last time we had a 3-run homer?

It proves that humans can get addicted to anything.

Extra base hits:
Miggs 40.9%;
Raburn 39.1%
Avila 38%
Boesch 35.7%
Peralta 33.6%
Dirks 32.5%
Carlos 29.4%
Ajax 29%
Betemit 26.7%
Inge 26.3%
Victor 26.1% (ca
Kelly 23.8%
Ramon 22.9%
Maggs 17.9% (career 34.6%) Hitting .224/.282/.294 and for RISP .162/.221/.265. Even when he hit .294 in July, only 3 hits were for extra bases or 8.3%.
Now that Contracts have beene extended, the SOC will play him at 3 till the bitter end.

The only way JL will take Ordonez out is if he gets reinjured or they can pass something off to media as an injury.
He just hit a double and I’m sure that will buy him PT until the end of the month.
Cabby, finally. Can we dare to grimace at what things would be like this game had Raburn made the play?

Gotta love it – Maggs gets an extra base hit at the very next AB – his third since the all-star break in 92 AB’s.

I can’t believe how lucky these O’s are. Ground rule double over a high wall!!.
Cool to see Alex getting the green light and willing to put on a good swing.

Wow. And after 2 were out!!

Double the wow. I thought they were pitching around Avila, boy what a hit.
And now Max now thru 6 when he looked like he would be lucky to finish 4.

Surprised JL didn’t bring in Schlereth to start the 7th.

We’ll they showed a little something there in the 6th. Max had a good bottom of the 6th but the 7th hasn’t started out so great! Double play ball would come in handy right about now.

With all the LHB due up that inning I figured for sure Schlereth would have been called.

Here you Max—the game is on the line here against Hardy. Bear down brother.

Come on Max

Way to bear down Max. Good comeback effort. Let’s tack on some more runs now! Wouldn’t it be nice to have a stress free win?

Holy Crow.
I am totally impressed with Max after that one brutal inning. He threw like an ace tonight.
And kudos to the hitters for getting on top in this one.
It’lll be up to Benoit and Valverde now.
I’ll bet Raburn would like to get another AB

Real gutsy effort by Max tonight – luved the 3-2 final pitch strikeout with the slider that hadn’t been great all night.
Have to take my hat off to the SOC the way he has managed the last starts of Justin and Max.

Santiago please for the 9th–your choice JL, 2nd or 3rd

Ok let’s see if Valverde can do it 1 more time!

Showalter has surprised me with his managing so similar to JL.
Why would you NOT send the runner against VV?

Did it again!!!
Great Victory.

What a game – VV again, just, with no margin for error.
Showing faith and not moving the pitchers around like chess pieces is starting to be rewarded.

The pen has been stellar in recent weeks. Go Tigers. Looked at the weather forecast for tomorrow and it really doesn’t lok good.

Oh ya I forgot to say how pleased I am that Weaver got rocked today. Baseball gods are getting him!

I have to think Valverde is not available on Sunday, do not run him into the ground. Benoit should be the closer tomorrow if needed. To think, Valverde was pretty much passed up by everyone in free agency last year.

He wanted a multi-year deal and was pretty expensive, That may have been one of the reasons. The teams that needed him couldn’t afford him. As much as we gripe around here, we sure are fortunate to have Mr. Ilitch as owner!

When you have the best catcher, starter, DH and closer along with a stellar slugger playing for one team in currently the worst ML division, something has to give sooner or later.
So happy for Curtis with the season he is putting together regardless of circumstance. To be leading both leagues in RBI’s and also runs scored – his 107 scored an incredible 23 ahead of the next in Ellsbury.

There were a ton of Tigers fans there tonight. It was like a home game.

We could see them and hear them. We haven’t seen a comeback like that in a long time. Rich, you are going to the game tomorrow, right? You are definitely the good luck charm. Maybe we should all chip in and buy Rich season tickets. Every time he goes to a game, the Tigers win.

Carlos to the DL; Rhymes called up. Hopefully we have Rhymes Thymes in Motown. He has shown he can play, that he can hit around .300, he can run and field his position. Time to put it all together Will. This is a critical roster move.
I’m a bit surprised to see Raburn at 3rd today. Thought Betemit (even though he would be batting right) and Raburn in left.
Good to see Santiago in there with Fister on the mound..

Valverde and Coke not available today. Nice article on Inge in the Freep today, even though he drove me crazy with his at bats, I really want to guy to do well. Seems like a great guy.
Guillen on DL on August 14… so Rhymes will probably stick the rest of the year.
C Wells looks good with playing time in Seattle. I wish we still had him.

A series sweep is possible. Interesting I have not seen one comment about Raburn’s hotdog play yesterday that really cost Max 3 runs.
Raburn is a survivor. I presume he will learn from that mistake.
Today we face Jo-Jo Reyes. The guys really should feast on his offerings. I hope Magglio can tee off on him today and get his act going. The 2 out double by him turned out to be the most important hit of the day yesterday. Reyes has really never been a good pitcher in the bigs. Gives up lots of hits.
Glad to see Leyland logically using Kelly and Santiago late in games.
Rhymes instead of Guillen in there will noticeably improve team speed. Not today with Ramon playing, but in general.
Teams in a chase often benefit from an injection of youth at this time of year. I don’t think of Will as a game changer like Kipnis or Lawrie, but he could provide a missing ingredient for us for sure.

Too many post here to keep commenting so I’ll leave it with one:
What is wrong with fister? Everything up in hitting zone and hanging. This is a ground ball guy and they are just poinding him. His acquisition is key for the Tigers this year and so far it has resulted in major disappointment (and no strike outs).
Can’t have this.

Another poor start to a Tigers game.

There’s your SO Dan!

Toto, we’re not in Seattle anymore

Fister from Seattle = Washburn from Seattle? Fister always looked good against the Tigers, but what pitcher doesn’t? Tigers one run = no run support BUT Fister giving up 6 runs?

Overall pathetically poor performance from the whole damn team today.
Killer At Bat was Peralta with 1st & 3rd and nobody out. Raburn’s subsequent at bat was no better.
No defense, not pitching no hitting

First time I have seen Fister pitch and now I am even more perplexed at the trade. Fister’s record is not just due to poor run support in Seattle, he is a pretty average pitcher. I question why we gave up 2 major leaguers, our best 3B prospect and another good prospect for him. He *MIGHT* be an ok pitcher, I know he is young and the TIgers control his rights for a while, but with Turner and Oliver potentially making the jump next year, will Fister even be on the roster?
Second: if VMart cannot catch due to injury you need to bring up Santos. Having Avilia catch this much is playing with fire. Bring up Santos for a week and then bring up RHymes (btw our third 2B with Raburn and Santiago ahead of him).

Down 7-1 and in comes Davis Purcey, another Seattle star. Now 8-1. Casper and Charlie, please come home.

David Purcey = David Pauley? Wasn’t he the one who got a hit for the Indians to win the game? Indians and White Sox leading again today. If Twins lose again, will that pretty much put them out of it?

Fister didn’t look sharp, they hit him pretty hard. Looked like he had the ball up. But the lackluster play and terrible defense accounted for at least half of his runs. I think Fister will be alright you just need to play your best infielders when he pitches.

Kudos to the club for not giving up. And to Boesch for going beyond the call of duty.
Shame on Fister

Well we’ll have to wait for Septmember for that Aaron. Unless they start playing Ramon at 3rd..

I know it’s early but 2 weeks ago I thought they gave up a lot for a middle to end of the rotation type of pitcher and middle reliever and now it seems even worse.
I agree that they hoping Oliver makes the rotation next year, but I don’t think they plan on Turner being there until 2013 (unless he overwhelms them in spring training). I can’t imagine putting two rookies in the rotation.
Will someone please give JL a 2011 stat sheet. I think he is is looking at stats from 2001. Magglio, our 3rd place hitter, is batting .225 for gods sake! I am not claiming to know more than our fearless leader, but I do know that every manager throughout the history of the game has put one of his best hitters in that slot. I understand that since we are paying him 8 figures a year, upper management expects him to play. But you do not need to bat him in the middle of the order.
Dispite the loss today we still took 2 of 3 and went .500 on this road trip. Which is awesome after losing the first 2 games. Good job boys.

No point woarrying about Ordonez batting 3rd. He appears to have something in his contract on that matter. There’s no other way to explain the stubborn stupidity of the decision. He is hiitting into too many DPs as well which are killing opportunities. Defensively he is simply a body in right field.
I’m worried about Peralta–he his not hitting with the authority that put him into the leagues top avg and run production guys..

Furbush throwing against the BoSox today-doing well early in the game. Casper hit another dinger for them yesterday..
Plus we gave up Martinez and probably Ruffin, we should hear about tomorrow. I guess it could by Smyly instead but I’d rather hang on to him than Ruffin.

Another hopeful sign is Austin Jackson hitting the ball a bit better and cutting down on the Ks.

Over our last 51 games, the Tigers are 26-25 in their drive to the Central Division championship.
I didn’t go to today’s game, came home instead. After winning the first two, it was pretty predictable that we were done for the weekend so why wreck it by staying for the throw-away game?
It seemed rather telling when Fister charged over to the dugout to try and catch that foul pop. Don’t like the way we play defense, Doug? I don’t blame you. But hey, that Nelson dude had a big strike zone today, so you may have tried throwing a few off the plate. Just a suggestion. As far as the trade itself goes, I didn’t like it and said so at the time. We gave up too much. It is what it is now, though.
So now Rhymes comes in, gives the team a spark, and in two weeks Guillen comes off the DL and right back to starting 2nd baseman. That’s my prediction.

Not this time Rich. I think if Rhymes actually brings it on and plays as well as he did last year and in the minors this year, he’ll stay. Even management must be getting a little bristled over the oft-injured Guillen.
As for Ordonez, it’s going to take the same thing to get him out of there. Though I would think they will experiment with dropping him in the order first.
Fister? I don’t know what they can do with him. Not sure he can bounce back like Porcello does. Ricky is another base-hit machine at times but can dominate. I’m not so sure we will see the same attributes in Fister.
Looks like DD got abused iby Seattle. I still say we needed a LHP at the deadline and not anaother RHP contact pitcher.
Let Betemit play 3rd and keep him there. Otherwise we are going to see him very inconsitent defensively too.
Furbush has given up 1 run on 4 hits in 7 innings against the BoSox today and Casper has another dinger.

Saw the comeback on Saturday. Didn’t see much today. As for the trades, Sizemore, dumb, giving away Furbush and Wells and whoever else, dumb. It’s not like we traded these guys for a superstar. Dumb, Dombrowski. Sad to hear about Carlos, sad but true, he should just retire.

Oh yeah, we gave up on a left handed started (Furbush) Dumb. Prove me wrong.

Sorry, starter. I know he pitched good today and Fister did not.

Charlie has pitched well twice so far for the Mariners. And he beat the BoSox too. Those guys can hit.
It appears as though the trade was very imbalanced and not in our favour. Time will tell, but Fister looks too hittable.
Carlos DL’d. Fishy to me. He’s OK to play even when he wasn’t hitting but suddenly they can affort to lose him for 2 weeks! Funny they didn’t DL Boesch. They could have treated Guillen the same way but this gives them an “out” for the decision. They don’t have to demote him, sit him, or admit they were sadly mistaken that he could still play regularly. They refused to look very hard at the trade deadline for a 2nd baseman. It all rings a little hollow to me.
As does JL’s apologies over pinch running for Martinez. Pinch running for him was the right thing to do in a 8-1 ball game. All the pretense about second guessing himself and making a bad decision is simply an opportunistic Jim Leyland knowing that there are far worse decisions on his part lately to worry about. It makes him look noble and magnanimous to accept blame for protecting one ohis most valuable commodities. He did the right thing but he did the wrong thing in trying to manipulate the media.
When it comes to being quoted publicly, I don’t often believe what Leyland says or which side of the mouth it comes from.

Did you see that old computer monitor behind him. I started laughing. It’s a dinasaur. Jim has been pretty polite for the past month or so. Very different tone than in past seasons. I think he’s wised up to MLB Network and knows millions around the world can see and hear for themselves what we’ve witnessed for years and he’s trying to clean up his image. You don’t see much of the managers with winning teams. It’s all about the team winning.

Wow, the guy’s story centered around pinch running for Martinez in the 9th inning of an 8-1 ballgame? Gimme a break! And Riemold made a good running catch on Boesch’s liner, there was nothing “spectacular” about it. I guess I miss Jason. I don’t think he gets enough credit for his work. I do notice that JL will take the blame on decisions that were actually the correct ones but didn’t work out. There is a lot of playing the media (and therefore the fans) here, I agree. Sadly, many fall for it.
How’s this: Just put Rhymes at second, Betemit at third, and put Raburn into the outfield rotation. Our defense today was again atrocious. Raburn can’t play infield. He does less damage in the OF and I do like to get him some ABs.
Personal note: I watched some replay of Saturday night’s game and I was on TV a number of times. All you could see, however, was my cap sticking up behind the head of the guy in the front row. My wife was front and center on these shots, so it all worked out well for the eyes of the viewers. 🙂

I’ve still got the game on the DVR and am going to see if I can pick you and the missus out.
I had to work today and missed the game but checked the score about 3:45 and it was 8-1. I almost freaked out. Saw where Leland apologized. Who does he think he’s fooling? That 6 year old has it right. Jhonny (Mr. Reliable, remember, Jhonny) has had a few slumps but they usually last about a week or so. This one seems a bit more prolonged. I know he’s not happy about it and hope he recovers quickly. Carlos on the DL. Where did that come from. Sometimes I think these guys make this stuff up. I’m disgusted they lost today, but I was more disgusted JL “announced” last night RR was playing 3rd. You gotta be kidding me.

Didn’t see the game, so I won’t comment on the particulars, but pretty disappointing about Fister’s performance? What happened with the defense?


Tigers Acquire Delmon Young
By Tim Dierkes [August 15 at 1:33pm CST]
In a surprising intra-division deal, the Twins announced today that they’ve traded outfielder Delmon Young to the Tigers for lefty Cole Nelson and a player to be named later. The press release notes that the PTBNL must be chosen on or before October 15th. The Tigers had an open spot on the 40-man roster for Young.

Young, 25, is hitting just .266/.305/.357 in 325 plate appearances on the season. Though he’s generally regarded as a subpar defender, his UZR is positive in this year’s 642 inning sample. Young is under team control through next year, but with a mild raise likely from this year’s $5.375MM salary, the Twins weren’t necessarily going to tender him a contract in December.

Drafted first overall by the Rays in 2003, Young was a key part of the ’07 challenge trade that sent Jason Bartlett and Matt Garza to Tampa Bay. He hasn’t lived up to his potential, posting solid batting averages but failing to draw walks or hit for power outside of his .493 slugging percentage last year. Still, a year ago it was hard to picture the Twins moving Young, especially to a division rival.

Maggs is going to hit the DL? And we platoon Young and Dirks?

I don’t get it.

I haven’t heard anything about Maggs and the DL. Still, we also have Raburn for the OF. Not sure of the wisdom of this move though I do like Young. When he gets hot he gets red hot.
The roster spot is needed for Santos if VMart can’t get healthy soon.
This might mean another move is coming soon.
No playoffs for Young if we get there is my understanding.

I don’t know the ins and outs of trades, but why would we get someone who can’t play in the playoffs? I guess getting there is the big hurdle and then we’ll worry about that? I don’t see that Young exactly is tearing it up this year. All very interesting…

come on Jason – need a new update!!!

As long as someone is on the roster before September 1st, they are playoff eligible.

Wow. Now, I never saw that coming, but I like it.

Not that I think Maggs is working out, but Delmon Young, I don’t get it at all. Seems like another Dumbrowski move to move. Geez!

Thanks Mark. I thought Aug 1 was the date for waiver trades and that the criteria was used for playoffs too. Maybe we have time to get a LH starter then!!!

Sorry Tiger Girl for the bad information.

Yeah, he’s okay for the playoffs. Other than that, I’ll need a LOT more information before passing judgment on this one.

Well-to the business at hand, I would not have Boesch going tonight. Give him the extra day with Liriano going. Play Young (and bat him 3rd). Does this mean SOC give Raburn the start at 3rd tonight? I suppose he might play him at 2nd with Liriano going though. Ordonez in RF and Young in LF.
Welcome to Motown Delmon. No pressure!

Geez-O Pizza!!!
Rhymes sent back down. Not sure he even had the proverbial cup of coffee this time.
I guess Raburn is now the 2nd baseman again. He sure has had a lot of opportunities to play for the Detroit Tigers.
I was just starting to get positive about Rhymes and what he would bring to the picture.
Oh will!! Raburn is a better solution than Carlos anyway, the question is to what degree better.

If only Rhymes could get the kind of chances to succeed that Raburn has had!

How many stinking outfielders does this team need? Why send Dow Rhymes why not Dirks? Seriously we have Jackson, Magglio, Young, Boesch, Dirks, Kelly, and Raburn
People were upset about the lineups before, what’s going to happen now? Geez!

Raburn is a joke in the infield. That glove flip Saturday night? You thought it looked bad on TV, you should have seen it live. Everything just stopped dead. The ball hit the ground and stopped, the runners stopped at their bases, all the players on the field stopped. The stands were almost dead silent except for some scattered and flat “oh”s. It would have been comical if it wasn’t so sad.

Delmon is a slow starter and strong finisher, so that’s good. He’s done well against Chicago career-wise, but not so much this year. I’ll take good on that too. His clutch stats show about the same numbers as his season stats, so that’s also good, as he doesn’t fold up when the game is on the line.. He’s below average against Cleveland. He has trouble with power pitchers, such as a Verlander. So who doesn’t?
He also has demonstrated the ability to charge his own dugout in a beanball war, which I was actually impressed with.
Overall, an offensive positive although I do wish we’d get someone who could put a few over the fence. Maybe Delmon can get back to last year’s numbers in the HR department.

Delmon Young has more errors than Raburn does in the outfield. The last time we played the Twins Delmon lost every ball in the sun. Hopefully he hits the cover off of the ball because his subpar defense is not going to help our already defensively challenged team.

Something had to be done about Maggs and hopefully will turn out like the Peralta trade.
Surely he can run the bases quicker than Maggs, though he is definitely no rabbit with the past 3 seasons stealing a grand 8 total bases and being caught 9 times.
It would be nice to break out of the player mould the Tigs always seem to acquire and not continually compromise speed and defense.

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