Magglio to play winter ball?

There was no response from the Tigers Thursday to a report that Magglio Ordonez could be playing winter ball this year to prove the recovery of his ankle. But it appears that if Magglio is indeed playing winter ball, it’s news to them.

Especially in Venezuela, this is the time of year when a lot of winter ball rumors pop up. Carlos Guillen seems to pop up in those rumors annually. The reports on Ordonez seem to be varied coming out a media gathering for the Caribes de Anzoátegui. After a radio reporter in Venezuela reported that Ordonez could be available as soon as mid-November, the Venezuelan publication Lider en Deportes cited club officials saying Ordonez might be available in early December. Given the recovery timetable for Ordonez following his August ankle surgery, the later report seems more realistic.

Normally, any report of a prominent Major Leaguer under long-term contract playing winter ball has to be taken with a grain of salt. Venezuelan players get a ton of pressure from home to play and help out their respective teams, and a lot of times they’ll leave the possibility open for reporters, knowing that their big-league clubs will be the bad guy and say they can’t play.

Ordonez used to fall under that category. Now, though, he’s a free agent, and there’s a motivation for him to play this winter. If he can how his ankle is healthy and moving around relatively well, he can answer some serious questions, for the Tigers and other teams, while it can still affect contract negotiations. If Ordonez plans on playing in December, and Major League scouts plan to watch him, that backs up the notion that he will not be a quick sign, which seemingly backs up the possibility that the Tigers could move on without him if the right opportunity pops up.

36 Comments

Well, Sizemore broke his ankle last fall (can’t remember what month) and we all know how he did rushing back.
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I’d bet the gossip is probably putting a timetable out there as to when he’ll be able to work out and start getting in playing condition.
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I don’t know how they can let Magglio go to another team. He has done so much for us. He has a long track record of success and I don’t see that ending anytime soon. He’s still a **** good hitter.

That’s true, Pup, but we can’t wait around for him if it means bypassing other opportunities. I think we have to proceed as if Maggs is not coming back, then see how his situation plays out in a later scenario. If it came to pass that he went to another team and had an outstanding season, that’s just the way it is. We have to take the same approach with Guillen and Zumaya, IMO. Personally, I’d love to see Ordonez back in Detroit next season, but not at the expense of passing up on players that can help us.
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Joe, it’s altogether possible that changing manager and coaches wouldn’t make a bit of difference, but I’d sure like to give it a try. You know what I mean? I think JL has proven that he’s not the guy.
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So we have two games played so far today and, in both games, a missed call (I didn’t see the second one) was followed by a game changing hit followed by the manager being ejected. Yeah, we’re off to a flying start this postseason.
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The Twins are becoming the Buffalo Bills of baseball. I know it’s tough when the Yankees can bring All Stars off their bench, but come on. Cleveland beat them in 2007. We beat them in 2006. Chicago beat LAA who beat the Yankees in 2005. What’s up, Minnesota?
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–Rich

Well, since you brought it up, Rich.

The players want it!

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5659563&campaign=rss&source=MLBHeadlines

Rich, we beat the Yankees and Oakland in 2006. Minnesota lost to Oakland after beating us for the division. But yes, they do seem to have trouble advancing…

In a way the Twins remind me of the great Braves teams of the 90s. They win the division every year only to get bounced from the playoffs without putting up much of a fight.
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Curtis sure is hitting the ball well. Amazing that a small adjustment has paid such dividends. I’m happy for Curtis to be playing so well on the big stage.
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From what I’ve seen in the playoffs only 3 teams have a shot at winning the World Series. Those being the Yankees, Rangers, & Phillies. The rest are clearly second tier squads compared to these 3.
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I agree with Rich we need to plan on Magglio not coming back or we could end of being caught between a rock and a hard place going into next year. If we get Maggs back it will be a huge bonus.
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Last word on our Tigers. The team is starting to take the shape of one built for spacious Comerica Park. Problem is that management continues to acquire players and play a style of baseball built on the 3 run homer. Speed, defense, & quality pitching are what will produce a winner in Detroit. Lets hope those in charge have finally learned what we all have known for so long.
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Joe

After watching these games, the Tigers need one more starting pitcher or somebody need to step it up a notch.
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Kenny Rogers sure knew how to step it up in ’06. I’ll never forget that.

Well, since no one mentioned reading the colummn with a link, I certainly, and have already called for umpires being scrutinized more carefully with some kind of fine or penalty for making horrific calls. I agree with the players that we don’t know if umpires are penalized. Jim Joyce should have been suspended or sent down to the minors for a few weeks. I’ve said that publicly. But, no, right on time the next day. They don’t have to be accountable for their mistakes, evidently.

Joe, they got rid of Chuck Hernandez under pressure and replaced him. Can’t believe they haven’t done it with McClendon this year. Maybe he’ll get the Pittsburgh job. I just read that Andy VanSlyke is also intersted in managing the Pirates.
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Have to wonder with all the managerial and even GM positions opening up, it any of the Tigers’ top brass will apply. Should be interesting.

To comment on this thread, I hope we sign Magglio. I would like to sign him early but his ankle, agent, and timing will probably not allow us to do so. Remberber the press conference when he came to the Tigers? Also Pudge? We had a long stetch of sub 500 teams in the 90’s.
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A corner outfielder with speed and some power and a veteran, proven, starting pitcher. Of course some bullpen help. You all know how I feel about the manager. How can we come off the all star break and lose 4 to Cleveland?
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Lance Berkman looked at strike 3, the strike zone replay showed it. Why don’t the umpires have the nads to call strike 3? This is what takes the game so long to play. The next inning a Twins player was called out and they did not show the replay.
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As a kid in the 60’s, I went to one game a year at Tiger Stadium, watched every Sunday on WKZO with George Kell and Larry Osterman. Like Rich said, we see every game and every pitch these days. Go Tigers, 2011! –Dave

Almost forgot. Listened to Ernie every night. Speaking of called out on stikes, “He stood there like the house by the side of the road” –Dave

Clearwater, last night I was talking about teams that have eliminated the Yankees; Cleveland, Detroit, and LAA who were then eliminated by Chicago. Boston, of course. The Twins are on their 4th crack at the Yankees and have won one game total the entire time.
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I read the article, Pup. I side with the players; I don’t want expanded replay but do want more accountability from umpires. While I’m at it, what’s the point of adding two baseline umpires for the postseason if they take up a position about 20 feet behind the base umpires?
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Marty, the only difference I can see in the two prices for the Postseason.TV is that one is international and one is USA/Canada. I like that camera idea they have and would like to see that all the time. Probably in the future.
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–Rich

Yeah I heard about Lloyd being a managerial candidate. I’m keeping my fingers crossed that he leaves and if Gene could go too maybe Leyland would decide to go home. Jim gets way too much crdeit for 2006 and not nearly enough blame since. Fact is he is a below average skipper who has gotten in with his friends and overstayed his welcome. Enough ranting for now I still hold out hope that some much needed change is about to go down in Motown.
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Joe

I want all technology all the time.

Because we already have technology all the time on the replays, during the game on TV, and fans can watch a replay on their cell phones or iphones sitting at the game. That’s all I’m saying. The umpires shouldn’t become a distraction from the game and that is what they have become. Look at last night’s game with a runner being tagged out in a 1 run game and it wasn’t even close. The guy was out. Bud Selig has got to do something. All sports have been affected by technology. Tennis, Swimming (Phelps wouldn’t have won one of his gold medals if races were decided by someone’s eyesight. The quality of the umpiring is disgraceful. I don’t think games should be decided by someone’s mistake. The call JJ made on Armando’s game should have been overturned. The umpires act like they are gods, while the fans in the stands and those of us at home watching can see their incompetence every game.

Actually, I meant to say the guy was called safe at 2nd, but was clearly out since the umpire was standing behind the play.

And adding insult to offense : Farnsworth pitched 1 2-3 shutout innings for the victory
Magglio must play in Venezuela if he wants to be ready for spring training. Venezuela´s season begins thursday .
His team said:
?En el caso de Magglio, una vez se recupere de su lesión podría jugar unas semanas. No creo haya pelotero más ?fiebrúo? que Infante, estará con nosotros después de un descanso?, continuó Gruszka.

http://www.meridiano.com.ve/beisbol%5Fvenezolano/noticia.asp?registro=173538
“After recovering from his injury he could play a few weeks.”
They also expect Infante to play for them so..
Magglio was rumored falsely to be owner of the team but he will be owner of the team in the future .
The team was awful last year. Magglio would mean an attraction for fans

I mean, Caribes was awful last year

Santago usually plays and a few other players, but I’m not sure if Magglio wants to risk having another injury. Of course, he’s a free agent now and can do anything he wants. If he was still under contract, DD would probably nix him playing in the offseason, with his contract, and the possiblity of injury, to their prized possession.

That’s good information, VT. Keep us posted on that.
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You can tell it’s October when the replay debate is in full swing. On that steal attempt by Posey the other night, I couldn’t tell in real time if he was out or safe. In fact, I couldn’t tell by the replay angles I saw. Maybe there were more angles that I didn’t see. The players on the field seemed to think he was out, and I put a lot of stock in that.
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If the players themselves, the guys who actually stand the most to gain or lose, don’t want replay, I also put a lot of stock in that. We’re just fans, we have no input on anything. If we did, JL would have been gone after 2008, just to cite one example.
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–Rich

It will be interesting to see what Lee gets in 2011, particularly if the Phils win the WS on the back of 3 pitchers. Hopefully the Rangers are able to upset their mojo.
It doesn’t seem right to me that you require a minimum 5 SP’s to get thru the regular season yet if you have home field advantage, you also choose the schedule enabling you to play the entire post season with only 3 SP’s.
Having 2 gun SP’s and a closer will get you the 4 wins you need. So much for a team sport when the season is on the line making it even more harder for teams like the Twins on sub $100m payrolls to compete in October.

You and I sure do disagree on the tech thing. The fans were yelling “replay” at one of the games. If you asked Armando Galarraga about a replay on that final play, I would think he’d want one.
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Umpires were necessary to make the calls. Since technology can do it almost to perfection, I think umpires in the future will have less and less to do in controlling games and outcomes. It’ been 100 plus years of baseball with umpires, when we really don’t need much feedback from them any more except for minor things. Eventually, I believe the fans will demand it. There are too many bad calls effecting the outcome of games. Just like sabermetrics were poo-pooed for many years by some managers and teams, we now know those stats are important and used regularly by managers.

None of us can see into the future so I’m not going to harp on the tech thing anymore.
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I certainly cherish my friendships with all of you and do not want anything to interfere with that. My lifeline with all of you is much more important to me than umpires.

Sincerely,

Kathy
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I think Magglio will play winter ball to increase his stock as a free agent. I’m sure he doesn’t want his perceived value to fall too low considering he already missed out on a huge payday. I still think Maggs is worth a 1 year 8.0 million dollar deal at least and hope to see him back. Hell we gave theat amount to Damon & Maggs should give us much more then Johnny did in return.
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If the Tigers can resign Maggs and make a serious play for Crawford & Dunn the offense could actually be pretty scary next year. Top this off with a couple veteran relievers, a starter & a backup catcher & we are in business. I know it sounds like a lot but considering at least 2 of these needs could be filled via trade and we have like $70 million coming off the books it should be possible. Resigning Inge & Peralta won’t eat up to much of that nest egg. The loyal fans of Detroit deserve to see a competitive team in 2011 after the crap we’ve had to endure the past few years.
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On another note I’m all for any creative trade as long as it upgrades the team in some way. Earlier posts mentioning names like Choo & DeJesus sure sound like solid alternatives and this may better suit DD’s strength. However Cabby deserves a presence behind him in the lineup that other teams fear so at least 1 big gun is a must.
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The playoffs sure seem to be heating up. The Braves stormed back last night & the Rays are finally showing a pulse today. Hopefully the Twins can follow suit and at least put up a fight against the Yankees. I felt kinda bad for the Reds as they should have won yesterday. For now I am enjoying the playoffs but I sure can’t wait for DD to make some noise at the winter meetings like he has the past few years. Then maybe off to Tiger Fest in January to meet the new squad.
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Sorry for the book but just wanted to get a few of my thoughts down before my internet goes down again.
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Joe

Magglio was hitting .300+ with a .378 OBP, on pace for 20+ homers, 100 RBI when he went on the DL. There aren’t a dozen players in the game that can do that for a full season. If he’s healthy, he will be hard to replace. The Tigs need Magglio, and a replacement for Damon (which it looks like Raburn will be) AND protection for Cabrera in the 5 slot. Anything less is not an upgrade.

I’ll throw in my 2 cents regarding replay: after watching a couple of NFL games I’ve concluded that the refs are so paranoid about replay they have been calling fouls on nearly every play – giving new meaning to the term flag football. Of course some of this is because the NFL keeps adding new rules. Good for baseball the rules don’t change much if at all. Perhaps we need to look at the way umpires are trained and evaluated.

I’ve been a tiger fan since I moved to Michigan in 1968. I am puzzled by something that someone among you may be able to answer. Why is the “old english D” on the shirts different from the one on hats and most other tiger gear?

GO GREEN JWA

Twins tanked again. What a miserable series. The Yankees remind me of a steamroller and that’s what they did to the Twins. I kept thinking how the Tigers would have fared playing them. The Rays finally won and that was a good game to watch. Would be nice if we could sign Magglio and Crawford, but that’s just daydreaming on my part.

Thoughts:
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If you’re a Twins fan, what is your opinion of Gardenhire and the club? You win the division nearly every season but stand no chance in the playoffs against the Yankees. That must be terribly frustrating and there’s nothing you can do. Kind of like the feeling we get over the 2nd half collapse, I’d guess. All the feelgood is tempered by that impending doom.
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Kathy, the replay discussion is just that, discussion. This is the perfect place for it, and disagreement is not taken personally.
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Replay is self limiting in baseball. It seems obvious it could be used for fair/foul balls, but it’s not so simple. A batted ball erroneously called foul terminates the play. You reverse the call but where do you put baserunners? The umpires decide? Won’t that in itself be cause for an argument from one side? And one off the wall suggestion: if the umpires are calling balls and strikes, eliminate those pitch track things from TV broadcasts. That little box is not the umpire’s strike zone, so why display it? Just to tick people off? If the purpose is to display the pitch location, then eliminate the rectagular box and let the viewers see the pitch as the umpire does; no visual box, just an invisible zone hanging in the air.
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A year at $8 mil sounds like a good deal for Ordonez from where we sit, but there are so many variables at play here. He wants to return to Detroit but how badly? At what point does he find an offer insulting? Would he fire Boras like Kenny Rogers did a few years ago, on the basis that he’s only going to play in Detroit anyway? Would Magglio’s services start a bidding war? Does he want multiple years? Hopefully we make our needed transactions and, if Maggs is there next January or February, Ilitch can reach into his hip pocket and find that extra few mil like he did for Damon and Valverde.
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JWA, I think all my olde english D stuff looks the same. Not sure what you mean. And when you say GO GREEN, I’m assuming you’re speaking of the environment? :-)
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–Rich

Magglio wont play in Venezuela . If he hints otherwise is to please journalists or to help his team
The misleading headline in the front page of the printed edition of the newspaper : Magglio reading himself to play in Venezuela.
The printed and web front page of the sports section ( phone interview):

” There is a good chance of returning with Detroit”
” I do not believe the team will exercise the option”
“The ankle is 90%”
” The bone is fixed”
He is not desperado to play or to know with what team
” I will play baseball in Spring Training or the season”
” If teh team does no offer me arbitration(??) , i would be a free agent and will wait for offers. And we are open to everything” With we , he means Boras and him, I guess
Same page printed edition, same interview:
I want to play in Venezuela
” I will be 100% next month”
” I think that I would play in Venezuela in december but first i need to be ok…the first thing is to put the ankle trough the brain to know it is well” His words
So if he played it would means that he is reading himself to be a politician
Like Beck says , they are under pressure to play. From the press playing the self righteous patriotic card for their readership and from the owners selling smoke to the fan-base, that will wait in vain for a rescue in december when the team would be in the brink of elimination ( like July the 30th)
The participation of players if ruled by and agreements: http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100204&content_id=8025022&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb
When Cabrera was with the Marlins he was allowed tom, play in the Winter League because when he did not play reported himself with overweight. He continued playing after the trade until he injured his quadriceps . He was under one year extension. After the 7 years deal he stopped playing. Gallarraga played in venezuela last year.

Sorry , no link the system does not allow me to post them. http://www.panodi.com has the information

If I was a Twins fan, I’d be just sick and heartbroken. The MB at the Twins site has lots of threads (for several years now) wanting Gardy fired because they choke in the post-season. They still fill up the seats right down to the post-season and I’d love that.
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imo, they probably need another starter and probably a position player who can hit. The teams who have won so far, got top-notch performances from their pitching staff.

If the Twins fans want Gardenhire fired because of their inability to beat the Yankees in the postseason they are dumber then I thought. I would take Gardy in a heartbeat to manage our Tigers over the clown we have now.
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Fact is the Twins were missing their closer Nathan before the year even started and were missing a key hitter in Morneau since early July. They were damaged goods and needed everything to go right to beat the loaded Yankees squad. Just goes to show how pathetically weak the AL Central has become. If the Tigers were in the AL East they would have been in the basement with the Orioles.
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The division has given the Tigers an excuse to be mediocre year in and year out. DD may say the goal is to win the WS but he isn’t fooling anybody. The real goal seems to be making money & possibly winning the division. Just making the playoffs seems to be the goal and that is why the direction of the team has become complacent.
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Back to my original comment. Anytime the Twins fans want to trade their coaching staff for ours I say get it done. Nobody picked the Twins to win this year and yet look who came out on top. They flat out know how to win but in real life Goliath usually slays David and that is what happened against the Yankees.
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If Magglio can’t be resigned I have a feeling Raburn will become an everyday outfielder by default. I can’t see the Tigers going out and getting 2 OFs & a DH. That seems like a lot especially if 1 of those 3 is not Maggs. The Tigers have some huge holes to fill in the lineup, bullpen & even the rotation so it should get very interesting come December. With Coke in the rotation we have to be solid 1 thru 4 meaning we need 1 more quality starter to add to our big 3.
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Joe

Since the Twin fans are so upset with their manager and are calling for him to be fired, the perfect solution would be to trade managers. I’d take Gardy in a heartbeat…. and bring your coaches with you.

Nakajima from Seibu Lions in Japan is thinking for posting system.. he plays SS and he’s healthier Little Kaz Matsui type. he did play 128 games this year for Lions. with

Is shortstop position filled? Any chance the Tigers will choose over Peralta? Being Japanese.. it’s time to see some Japanese player in Detroit uniform again…

I just read on MLB Trade Rumors that Damon would like to go back to the Yankees. I wish Johnny well but he will have a rough time getting a job as a DH that has very little power & really doubt the Yankees would have much use for him.
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I also found it interesting that Damon quoted the Tigers as saying they would not be bringing him back as they “were looking for a more prototypical DH like Adam Dunn.” If the Tigers actually mentioned Dunn by name then that is a good sign. It means they realize an intimidating presence is needed to protect Cabby. It’s about time.
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I also read that Crawford doesn’t have much interest in playing for the Yankees and will most likely end up with the Angels, Red Sox or Tigers. We should be able to outbid those other 2 teams so hopefully DD gets it done. Crawford is a difference maker in every way & suspect his knees will hold up much better once he gets off the turf in Tampa and doesn’t have to play at Toronto 9 times a year anymore. Yet another reason to get out of the AL East, so he can stay healthy.
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If we successfully land Dunn & Crawford the offseason will be off to a tremendous start. Then it shouldn’t be hard to sign a couple quality bullpen arms and a back up catcher. After that DD will most likely swing a trade or 2 to round out the roster with a quality starting pitcher.
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I know it’s early but so far I like what I’m hearing & keeping my fingers crossed that it’s more then just talk.
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Joe

I agree about Japanese players. Do the Tigers scout over there? There was some talk a few years ago, but that’s all I know about it.
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Joe, your disclaimer in the last paragraph was well placed. It’s all talk. Damon mentioning Dunn is…..well……Johnny is a reporter’s dream for quotes. Adam would be a presence, but he’d also draw a lot of LH relievers in late innings. Not his strong suit, hitting lefties. However, I find him more intriguing than Jayson Werth.
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I haven’t seen anything credible linking us with Crawford. If it’s on MLB Trade Rumors, I can’t find it. Signing him just seems like it would be too good to be true. One more thought on Crawford: he steals between 40 and 60 bases per season. Can Leyland handle that? All of these personnel musings have to take into account that JL will be managing them.
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–Rich

Rich, very true on Damon as of now it’s all talk. I really hope that the Tigers don’t go after Werth as I don’t see him being much of an upgrade over Raburn and he would be a huge bust in Detroit.
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As for Crawford I incorrectely noted were I found the information on him. The word on him was expressed on MLB Tonight on the MLB Network. Crawford is good friends with Torii Hunter and Hunter is lobbying hard to get Crawford to join the Angels.
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Very good point on Crawford’s game clashing with JL’s managing style. The only saving grace is that Austin Jackson managed to swipe over 20 bags on JL’s watch so there is still hope for Crawford. I could easily see Crawford and Jackson swiping a combined 80 to 90 bags as a tandem. This would drastically change the entire offense.
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As for Dunn I agree that he is slow and a K machine who would struggle against lefty relievers. However he also would make pitchers think twice about walking Cabby and if distracted with Jackson and/or Crawford on base he could put up some huge power numbers. Long story short I don’t see too many guys who could protect Cabby much better then Dunn while adding that lefty power bat the Tigers need so badly.
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These are the reasons why I hate JL so much. He manages everybody the same. Young or old fast or slow it doesn’t matter. He hurts the team plain and simple and refuses to play up a team’s strength’s while minimizing their weaknesses. I cringe thinking about how Leyland could be screwing the Tigers out of a massive turn around in 2011.
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Joe

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