Saturday: Tigers vs. Angels

UPDATE: Angels lineup has changed. MLB suspended Torii Hunter four games for last night’s incident, and Hunter decided not to appeal.

As Jim Leyland said he would do, Brennan Boesch and Johnny Damon are sitting against wild left-hander Scott Kazmir. Ramon Santiago gets his first start at shortstop since Brandon Inge came off the DL, while Jhonny Peralta gets a game at DH. Jeff Frazier starts in left field, batting seventh.

TIGERS

  1. Jackson, CF
  2. Santiago, SS
  3. Raburn, RF
  4. Cabrera, 1B
  5. Peralta, DH
  6. Inge, 3B
  7. Frazier, LF
  8. Laird, C
  9. Rhymes, 2B

P: Jeremy Bonderman

ANGELS

  1. Bobby Abreu, LF
  2. Erick Aybar, SS
  3. Alberto Callaspo, 3B
  4. Torii Hunter, RF Hideki Matsui, DH
  5. Hideki Matsui, DH Maicer Izturis, 2B
  6. Maicer Izturis, 2B Juan Rivera, RF
  7. Mike Napoli, 1B
  8. Bobby Wilson, C
  9. Peter Bourjos, CF

P: Scott Kazmir

29 Comments

Way too many errors/wild pitches/passed balls…this is just bad baseball.

And Bondo had good stuff tonight!
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This team and its manager are a laughing stock.
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If the fans stop coming and they keep openly complaining about JL then maybe here will be a silver lining in all this somewhere.
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Beyond awful. It’s shameful to watch this group as they have obviously given up.
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Two-Oh Thomas and Bonine are are middle relievers? That’s hopeful.
What is Two-Oh’s WHIP? Probably about Two-Oh.

Frazier isn’t aggressive enough in the outfield. He plays everything off the bounce. I’ve noticed at least two line drives that he could have probably caught if he charged the ball, one of them could have saved a run or two.

Amen.
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May as well bring back Schlereth. We’ll need a LHP next year in the pen. Seay is probably done.
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May as welll bring up Furbush for a look-see too.
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The guy they should bring up is Max St. Pierre. Here’s a guy who has toiled long and hard in the minors. Has sone a good job this year and hit the ball well too.
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He has had some personal trouble in his life and if anyone should be inclined to give this career minor league catcher a chance to play it should be Jim Leyland.
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Guillen is not gonna help this team—even before the most recent radical nose-dive–he wouldn’t have helped much. No power in those tired muscles anymore.

Frazier isn’t aggressive enough in the outfield. He plays everything off the bounce. I’ve noticed at least two line drives that he could have probably caught if he charged the ball, one of them could have saved a run or two.

Another blown call by an umpire. Wow.
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It shouldn’t matter if it’s a blowout or a tie game, a player or manager should at least argue somewhat. No need to pull a Torii Hunter, but don’t let the umps get 100% away with it.
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Brennan obviously caught that ball. Good defense spurs good offense, and vice versa, and right now he needs that defense to get him going.
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I don’t believe that vets should “get the calls.” A call is either right or wrong. Call the play what it is.

The best thing I saw tonight came at the end of the postgame show. As you may know, Avila tumbled backwards down the dugout steps last night to avoid a line foul off Damon’s bat. Before tonight’s game, Inge went to that spot and, using white tape, created a “chalk outline” of the body, complete with Avila’s number 13, batting gloves where the hands would be, and a helmet where the head would be. That was hilarious! I wish there was a picture of it. Classic.
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Bonderman was pretty good tonight in his short rest start. The bullpen, obviously, was terrible. We don’t have a hit with RISP yet in this series.
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I guess we’re supposed to be okay with five wins in the past month? The place was nearly packed tonight…for fireworks, I suppose. My wife noted that it would be cheaper to go to one of the bars and watch the fireworks from there. The obligatory joke would be that it’s the only fireworks we saw tonight.
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I’m really confused about what our goals are. Perhaps top management could let us in on what they’re thinking? Other clubs are forthcoming with this information.
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–Rich

Sorry for going back over a post following the Indians July sweep but given the media is in love with JL, it is up to the fans to bring out the facts and discredit JL’s managing record.
The Detroit News staff in particular have blamed brittle starting pitching, lineup and injuries for the Tiger swoons the past five years. Yet this has been happening right throughout his managerial career.
After 19 seasons managing teams, JL’s steady as you go .495 record hides the fact his teams have only improved in the second half on 4 occasions (21.1%), and only once (12.5%) for a team that finished above 500 overall with the 1992 Pirates.
JL has NEVER got a team up to 500 overall after the break.
With 10 (52.6%) of his teams being at 500 or better by the break, for only one team to improve and that being 18 years ago is downright ridiculous that he is still managing anywhere.
JL has had post season success only with teams not expected to progress with the 1997 WS Marlins fading to finish 9 games back similar to the 2006 Tigs. The 1990-1992 Pirates finished first each year yet failed to progress in the playoffs.
JL’s interview after Mr I’s endorsement smacks of his total lack of understanding of human dynamics, motivation, energy, chemistry and the need for change often just for change sake.
I have always had a soft spot for the Rangers and Rays so this season at least is providing me with some entertaining baseball to watch. Crazy that these 2 teams are able to be competitive despite having a combined payroll matching the Tigs.

Been on vacation and caught up on all the comments. Rich, I am sure Boesch can’t bunt so maybe pinch hit for him? I stick to my word of not mentioning the manager’s name. Even in coversation. Pup, all of the people at our work place do not like our manager. Comerica Park was packed because people buy their tickets early and come from all over the state. What will hurt, Mr I, is in September “if” the Tigers are out of the race and no one comes to the games! Our fans come to see the players, not the manager. Oh, I forgot to mention our “hitting” coach, or the lack of one. Dan, as much as I like a home run, it is much more exciting to see players running around the bases, hitting, stealing, bunting, and scoring 4 runs in an inning. Trammel for manager! Go Tigers! –Dave

Good comments, dave. I don’t think Jim has good people skills, especially with his players. Everything said to the players is said through the media and the media in Detroit supports him. He’s lost this team just like he lost the team in ’08. My son called me last night and was asking what was going on with the Tigers and those were the very words he used……he’s lost the team.
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I wonder what Johnny says when Arod and Jeter ask him what’s going on and/or some of his Boston buddies. Jim Leland always makes sure he comes first, not his players. We’ve witnessed the swoon for five years now.

As far as other teams are concerned, I watch MLB Network quite a bit. I’ve always liked the Rockies because of Tulo. Got to like the Rangers, after what R. Washington has been through and I also like the Nationals. Tampa is good and I like to watch that McCutchen kid in Pittsburg.

Jim had a hissy fit last year when they had not yet extended his contract. The media was all over that, but ask him a question about his lineup or game decision making and he’ll tell you where to go.

As an aside, I might not be around quite so much as my 95 year old mother is very ill. I don’t need consolation, because she’s ready to go and we are all getting too old ourselves to care for her. Hopefully, in her sleep.
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Why this organization sticks with this guy is dumbfounding to me.

Sorry to hear that Pup.

Sorry to hear that pup – I hope that she goes peacefully. That is how I felt about my 95 year old Grandmother last year. She was ready. She was a great Tigers fan and she must be mad as hell up there in heaven seeing this this team.

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I must admit that I changed the channel in the 5th inning. I just couldn’t take it anymore. I see that we had another 4 hit attack last night. I am sure the Angels didn’t know what they had coming. I am sure they are shaking in their shoes.
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Don’t know if I will watch today – don’t know if I have the stomach for it. We also have tickets for Monday night – I don’t know if I have the stomach for that either. I don’t want to go but I may have lost the arguement.
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I know we got into this discussion recently, but why is it that other teams (the Twins) with Mauer and Morneau on the shelf (Morneau still being there) seem to be able to pull up guys from the minors like Repko and Valencia and they are getting hits left and right?? We have nothing. Frazier can’t hit, Kelly can’t hit, Laird, Avila, Rhymes, Boesch, Inge, Raburn, Santiago, Damon, Peralta, and heck even Cabrera these days, can hit with runners on????? NOBODY. The only way this team can win a game is to win 2-1 or 1-0 and heck we don’t even have a pitcher that can shut another team down. Verlander can’t, Scherzer can’t, Galarraga can’t Bonderman can’t, and Porcello sure as heck can’t. Nobody on this team can step up. They are incaple and to me that is sign of character and motivation, whether that is an inner thing and/or a coaching thing.
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And now since Mr. I gave the powers at be a free pass, there is no motivation for anyone to keep their job. A lot of these guys are in contract years and they better pick it up because they will find themselves out of jobs.
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On a different note, I have been wanting to bring this up – regarding the Toronto Blue Jays and specifically Bautista, I just find it a little bit to convenient that this guy never hit more that 18 (I think thats the right number) homers in a year and now have 34. In fact in the last 5 years he has hit something like a total of 59. For that matter that whole team is hitting for power at a very high rate something that is not in a lot of the guys mo’s up there. Just a little suspicious to me – what do you all think???

It’s that good Canadian H2O !
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The season is wearing on Miggy. He has lost his edge too.
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The experiment with Rhymes is just about over. Everything he has been hitting has been soft. He may not get on enought to utilize his peed.
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Wonder what JL’s schtick will be when he gets Carlos back and nothing changes? Inge certainly hasn’t added much.
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Right now he can’t imply enough that he has a rookie laden team. The inuendo is in everything he says.
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GK–I agree with your assessment on the job security given him as being a very negative turn of events.
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This total collapse of the team is an annual event, no matter what personnel JL has to put on the field. Last years was horrific and we all knew they were going to find a way to screw it up even when they were safely ahead with 3 weeks to go-heck, they were safely ahead with 4 games to go!
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Leyland mad ridiculous mistakes down the stretch in playing and not playing people. Laird was hitting worse than he is this year down the stretch. He left 7 or 8 guys on base in the last game alone I believe. Polanco was sat at a crucial time. I believe Ordonez was too–and he was hitting then.
This total collapse seems to be a trademark of JL teams.
Is it his fault? Who knows. He does make questionable moves and the negative results keep occurring. There comes a time that enough years are enough.
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Hey GK. Because i reside near Toronto, I can comment on the Bautista thing. A couple of points to make.
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First, the park is a banbox and is perfectly designed for there lineup who feast on fastballs. They have a bunch of guys who do not miss a good fastball when they get. Unlike our guys who seem to either flail away at high one or watch fat pitches go right down the middle.
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Second, there has been much talk about Bautista here as well. Where did this power come from? He attributes it to a better plan at the plate. The Jays hitting coach (his name escapes me right now) has worked with him to be ready on every pitch to attack. Bautista admitted that he didnt always have that mentality. The power surge actually started last September when he hit a bunch a homers to end the year.
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The jays still have control over him for the next year because he is arbitration eligible and that is why they were reluctant to trade him at the deadline. If this is what he truly is, they feel they might have a cornerstone to their future since he is not that old yet. Dont be surprised if the Jays sign him to a multi year contract in the offseason on the hunch this is what he is and keep him out of free agency for awhile. They also like his rocket arm in right and the influence he has over the young Latin players. Yunel Escobar is a whole different player since showing up and many believer it is because of Bautista. He just needs to get his average up.
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I dont think it is juice but I have been wrong before.
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— Bob (Tortured Near Toronto)

Well torturing myself by watching this game on a Sunday afternoon which I have a lot better things to do.
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We just finished the 4th inning – and well it was pretty!!! And error that cost you a run – and then the hitting by our team in the bottom was beautiful. Boesch pop out on three pitches – Cabrera 1 pitch to get an out and hen the beautiful groundout by Peralta on 2 pitches. I tell you it is a site to behold.
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Pathetic. I tell you the problem isn’t the young guys it is the guys you should be counting on that are failing miserably. Top of the fifth is looking great so far NOT

Lousy base-running, poor fielding, crappy hitting, questionable pitch choices in 1-2 and 0-2 counts. The managing and coaching. It all adds up.

not that there can’t be increases in power – but to go from what he was to what he is now. Sorry I just don’t buy it. A little too convenient in my opinion. Just another drug they aren’t testing for. Just don’t believe it.

Guess we should be glad we didn’t get him at the deadline eh?.
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I, for one, would have loved to see him at 3B.

Player of the game.Good way to say farewell. He is supposed to be demoted to make room for Guillen. The infield is overcrowded so it is not Boesch

First of all a WIN !!!!!!! Rod says it wasn’t a laugher but it counts as one for us considering we aren’t scoring any runs.
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Secondly – didn’t know I would offend all of you with my remarks regarding Bautista and the Blue Jays. I still just don’t think a guy goes from all to nothing that quickley and it isn’t as though he isn’t a rookie. He went from 15 in 2006 to 15 in 2007 and 15 in 2008 and 13 in 2009 to 34 so far this year and it isn’t even over yet???? I hope I am wrong it isn’t as though it is an nice increase it is a gigantic increase. To me that is an eyecatching number that makes you go HUM!???? The whole teams numbers have gone up significantly

Question from Trevor Thompson to Rick Porcello after the game: “Jim said that’s the Rick Porcello he wants to see. What do you think he meant by that?” What Porcello SHOULD have answered: “I don’t know, go ask him (pointing), he’s right in there. I have no idea.” Rick would end up in the minors, but it may have been worth it.
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We played a sloppy, mistake-laden game. Both veterans and rookies alike made mistakes. Some of the ones by the rookies are rookie mistakes, some are not. They do need to have certain knowledge of the game before arriving “up here.” The funny part was Leyland in his postgame, saying he couldn’t wait for this press conference so he could point out that we played poorly yet won, and that’s all anyone cares about. I beg to differ, Jim. I know you think fans are dumb, but not all of us. Don’t talk down to people. Even Trevor.
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I’ve noticed a change in Cabrera. He seems to be making a concerted attempt to step up and be a leader. I don’t know if someone talked to him or he’s taken it upon himself, but it’s a good thing either way. He had an excellent interview last night, and he can be seen pumping guys up in the dugout. Even his English seemed suddenly better. I’m impressed, Miguel. Keep it up. This team needs it.
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Too bad about Rhymes having to go down. It was expected, and he’ll be back in September. Meanwhile, Frazier is wasted space but, as an outfielder, he gets to stay. A waiver deal of some kind would come in handy, even in our current situation. We can still gain some positives going into next season by beating up the White Sox and Twins a little bit.
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–Rich

Sorry Pup – hope all is at peace and you are able to say your farewells. I missed the opportunity I had with my father.
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I think GK you have been following the Tigs too long where we just don’t expect any long term positives attributed to player development from the coaching staff. Past experience also makes it hard not to be cynical.

So we fans are in Jim Leyland’s head? That’s not good. When a manager can’t wait to get to the postgame press conference to make a remark about the fans…it undermines everything he keeps saying about not giving a darn about what anyone else thinks. He DOES care. He seems to care more about the perception of him and what the fans think than playing good fundamental baseball. He said everyone works on fundamentals the other night. Well, the difference is either the players or the coaching, then. And if coaching can’t effect it, why do it and why have coaches?

I have read the comments here and on the Tiger message board. Can’t anyone with some authority on the team see that the problem is Leyland and his coaching staff? It reminds me of the old nickname “fat cats.” They are getting paid no matter what happens. And now they have Illitch guaranteeing them a job next year? Are the players really fed up with Leyland but can’t really say anything without fear of reprisal? What a terrible situation.

Hope it works out for the best, Pup. On JL, that is it. WE all seem to agree at this point. Please, can we at least have a new manager next year???

So, if the team gets 2 of their regulars back and they still under-perform—who then is to blame?
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Inge has played 5 games upon his return. He had 3 singles and an RBI in his 1st game back. He has been O-For in the 4 games since. Does anyone realistically think he is going to help straighten things out this year?
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And what about next year? Carlos and Brandon have barely 10 HRs and 70 RBIs combined. And those numbers are NOT reflective of their injuries as much as their abilities.

It’s what I was afraid of when the injuries occurred, that it would become an excuse for what was already going to be a second half nosedive. The fans don’t seem to be fooled by this, from comments I read, but some media is falling into the trap. My challenge to the club is to finish at or above .500, or else. I’ll feel a lot better about things if they were able to pull off that unlikely feat.
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You hit the nail on the head, Ed. All those holes can’t be filled through free agency or even through trades. I think DD will make some improvements, but some guys from this year who are perceived as weak are going to be back next year. In that scenario, every Tiger fan in existence will have his/her own opinion over who should have come back and who should have been gone. That will make for some lively winter discussion, if nothing else.
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I wouldn’t mind seeing some kind of waiver deal this month. One thing that can be accomplished this season is to put this problem with Minnesota and Chicago in our rear view mirror. We have to establish ourselves with those teams once and for all. And yes, that’s where a new manager and coaching staff would come in.
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–Rich

It’s a bad situation the Tigers find themselves in, that’s for sure, Dan. They have an All Star at one position and not much anywhere else. And with the injuries they incurred this year, if there was help down on the farm we would have seen it, but it’s just not there. From my perspective, this team needs help in at least four if not five every day positions—Catcher, 3rd base, middle infield, and possibly both corner outfield positions. If Boesch had performed early on like he’s doing now, he would have been back at Toledo on the first bus. I seriously doubt that all their ills can be cured in the offseason through free agency. And if they are unwilling to part with any of the untouchable arms they have on the farm, I don’t see much improvement unless they part with Cabrera for several need position players. Hey, if we can’t win with Miguel, what’s the use in having him?

–Ed

Love all the comments, great reading. I along with the others feel this team needs a new manager above / before any other moves. Then start the rebuilding process.
The one thing I don’t want to see happen is Miguel going. I would never trade him for instant gratification. But, sometimes I wonder if the stink of this club makes him want to leave.
As Rod would say “I see you, big guy”.

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