History, my friends

According to Elias Sports Bureau, tonight was just the second time in Major League history that a scoreless game was broken up by a double-digit inning in the seventh or later. Cincinnati put up a 10-run 13th inning for a 10-0 win at Brooklyn on May 15, 1919.

20 Comments

Anybody here see that game? And Cincinnati went on to win the World Series over the Chicago “Black” Sox. Say it ain’t so, Joe!
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–Rich

Think they sent the wrong player down for Rapada!.. should have been a pitcher for a pitcher!
Now lets see?
Hmmm!… einee, mienee… Nate? or Lyon?
Send them both down!

My God!. I left the game in the bottom of the 6th to run to the market. When I returned it was still the top of the 7th. Again it just shows that JL does not know how to use his pitchers. A hard thrower leaves and another follows. I don’t blame the kid for the loss but it is time to get rid of Robertson and Lyons should have been gone a long time ago. How long will JL continue to use these guys?

What an inglorious way to go with our first zip for the season. Trying to stay positive, our starters are proving to be a major improvement on last year. I just love the way Gman and Jackson tough it out giving it their all whilst maintaining their head and poise. I think JV has watched and learned how they have been able to deliver even on their off nights.
Central is shaping up to be the weak link of this years AL with no teams ranked in the top 5 for offense or defense except for KC’s No. 2 in pitching offsetting their 13th for offense. They still have Kyle going around undermining their starting pitchers efforts.
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It has been obvious for some time that JL has not trusted close game late innings work to anyone other than Rodney, Seay and now Zoom. Last night showed his concerns as being fully justified, although it tends to become self fulfilling as few players have the self belief and inner strength to prove management wrong.
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Body language says everything and it looks like adding a 3rd lefty into the bullpen is bringing the underlying JL / Nate issues to a head. DD or Mr Illich if DD is a party, had better get involved to resolve the issues quickly to ensure the negative vibes don’t become cancerous.
Sending Nate or Lyon for that matter down is not an option at this stage as I understand that would enable a full paid release on their contracts (Nate $17m for 09 & 10; Lyon $4.25m for 09) if either don’t agree.
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Will be a big test for young Mr Porcello to right the ship tonight.

Ughhhh. Of course we have to make the bad side of history against the Yankees so we can watch it over and over on ESPN today……
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I don’t think Verlander has anything left to complain about. Jackson has pitched his b**ls off so far and has as many wins as Justin. Amazing how one bad play can lead to such disaster…..
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Get ‘em tonight!
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-Tracey

Outstanding effort by Jackson, he could not have done any better. Too bad that game turned into something so ugly. Middle relief is just ridiculous. Let’s hope the boys can let go of it and regroup for tonight. Perry’s control is scary, got a kick out of Rod Allen saying he wouldn’t try to bunt against him!

While in a way I agree with you all in a way. I really don’t think that the pen has been that bad all in all. And I don’t see why you are willing to give Perry the benefit of the doubt when in reality he was the reason that inning went so south last night.

PERRY
In 6.2 inning of work he has allowed 4 hits 5 runs (3 of the earned) 7 walks andd 7 strikeouts. In my estimation with 7 walks in 6.2 inning he was a ticking time bomb.
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ROBERTSON
In 6 innings of work he has allowed 7 hits 6 runs (all earned) 2 walks and 4 strikeouts.
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LYON
in 11 innings of work he has allowed 10 hits 6runs (all earned) 7 walks and 4 strikeouts.
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What is interesting about Lyon and Robertson is that really they each have had only 2 bad outings, the rest have been pretty good. I am not sure about Lyons yet but in my estimation Robertson hasn’t been used nearly enough. A guy who is used to starting probably it is real hard physically to stay sharp when he has only pitched 6 innings in two weeks. I obviously don’t know for sure but it seems to me maybe he hasn’t quite adjusted yet. I guess what I am saying is that I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt a little longer.
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But in my opinion to bag on Robertson and Lyon and give Perry a free pass is crazy, Perry is the one that allowed the ball to get rolling. (and I sat through the freezing cold weather at Comerica last night) So if your going to give him a pass you have got to give the others the benefit if the doubt as well.
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We’re not getting the expected production from our big bats, we have a #5 hitter with what’s becoming a serious injury, we have Santiago appearing to settle into his usual place on the far end of the bench, and a manager who stubbornly plays Raburn against all LH starters because the book says so, but you want to talk pitching? So be it.
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There is no team in baseball with a perfect pitching staff. Even KC has Farnsworth out there. Perry has not been able to do what got him on the team in the first place, that is to throw strikes fairly consistently, and his slider is non-existent. This should come as no surprise from a guy in his second professional season. Lyon is capable much of the time, but when it’s late in the game and those hitters begin taking their approach seriously, he becomes hittable. Same with Robertson, who doesn’t get enough work to even be a problem. Rodney and Zumaya, question marks, but a possible upside. Rincon could help, if he has help. Seay of course has been excellent. The strangest part of the whole thing is the two guys we supposedly have coming back, Bonderman and Willis, are both starters, and our starters have been good. So what to do there? I do know that Lyon isn’t going anywhere. Perry could go down when they bring back a 13th position player. That doesn’t mean he’s gone for the season, since he can work some things out and come back to help.
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Have to pretty much ride with what we’ve got, since the market relievers were overpriced and some weren’t even that good. What would help the most is for someone to come out of nowhere, as Galarraga did last year. Hope and dream.
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–Rich

The signs had been there that the bullpen was just holding it together. A sobering stat is only Seay with 7 and Perry with 3 have managed a Hold. Calling up Rapada showed how concerned JL had with the bullpen. Where to??
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No. 1 resolve Nate. Preferably a long heart to heart behind close doors away from the ballpark.
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No. 2 resolve late innings work. Hopefully Zoom stays fit and improves markedly on his first outing. Rapada should go great as a situational lefty enabling Seay and Zoom to do late innings set up to Rodney. Everyone keep praying as Rodney is looking increasingly fragile with his ERA up to 5.63 and even with his 4 from 4 saves, he is still only a career 37 of 62 (59.7%).
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No. 3 Ryan Perry represents the future and needs careful handling. Since Lyon’s early blown save, JL has used only Perry, Seay and Rodney for pressure situations. Ryan has a low batting average of .182 with 4.05ERA but has lost control having a high P/IP of 19.95 and 9.45 walks/9I. He has seemingly lost all confidence in his off speed pitches and is now affecting his fastball. I would not send him down at this stage but limit his use to non pressure situations so he can hopefully regain his pitching range, accuracy and confidence.
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No. 4 Rincon has been a disappointment having a WHIP of 2.04, 6.48 walks/9I, .324 avge and 6.48 ERA. He was signed on a minor league contract and should be sent down to AAA. Dolsi should then come up as he has yet to give up a run in AAA and his 2008 figures with the Tigers of 3.97ERA; 47IP; 3HR; .267 avge; 1.64WHIP; 2 of 3 saves and 7 holds.
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Whilst Lyon has been a huge disapointment on the $4.25m invested, I would not change JL’s current use of him as an innings eater. His .238 avge, 4.91ERA and 1.55WHIP is OK but he also is not ready to handle pressure situations. Hopefully he handles that role enabling a trade option on his history of 70.8% save rate and 26 of 31 (83.9%) in 2008.

I agree Rich even though we have hit well at times it has been very inconsistent. The top guys in the lineup are not really hitting, Cabrera isn’t hitting anymore after get out the got hot. The bottom of the lineup who has been producing didn’t produce last night. As far as I am concerned it didn’t really matter that we got shelled in the 7th, because when you only have 2 hits up until that point it doesn’t matter that you lose 10-0 or 2-0.
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I also agree that the pitching isn’t the problem, it has actually been okay, not great but okay. They basically have had 3 bad games and the rest have been okay. The hitting on the other hand well like last year inconsistent, great at times nonexistent other time.

The bullpen last year was part of the hope and dream philopsophy that crumbled apart. I see the same strategy being used this year. The way I see it the facts are already written on the wall with the main fact being they did NOT go out and get a CLOSER.
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Lyon was a blue light special. He does not have the stuff to succeed as a closer on a championship team. His one advantage that he has is his ability to throw strikes. He now is getting hit so hard that that remaining quality has been compromised as well. He is walking far too many batters to be useful.
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Nate has his nose out of joint and he has forgotten the blue-collar ethic that brought him some success in the first place. That fat contract led to a fat head and whene JL (justifiably) demoted Nate to the bullpen he essentially became an ex-Tiger right then and there. The contrived bubble-gum has burst.
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Rapada–he is prototypical DD/JL hope and dream material.
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Perry. He’s gat the heater. How long can he keep the demeanor? It’s starting to crack already. I though JL was actually stupid to have put him in in a scorless tie, in front of the home crowd and against the NY Yankees. JL has often been proased for knowing when to put players in a position where they can succeed. He must have been reading the fairy tale princess the night before. That was a prescription for failure.
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Rodney is once again a closer by default. One who toes the mound with an ignorant confidence and who 2 batters later has fear etched on his face and trying not to step on the tail between his legs.
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Zumaya will not be happy until he clocks 103 MPH again. That is unlikely to happen, during which time he will have walked a lot of batters, blown a few games and reinjured his tortured arm.
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The problem is that there is no answer here at present. The problem persists.
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The only shred of hope I see with this pen (other than Bobby Seay) is the fact that closers are a valatile bunch. You look at their stats and you can see them go from dominant to submissive from one year to the next. Maybe, a guy like Rodney can find something spectacular for a season, or Zumaya. Just don’t bet on it.

Sorry (once again) for the typos. I suppose I really should preview and proof read.

Good points, good discussion. When a starter returns, I suppose Miner goes to the pen. That will help to a very small degree, as I maintain that Miner is a much better starter than reliever. Rodney is a huge question mark. Dan is right on about Zumaya, and I don’t expect him to be here long. Everyone blames his off the field behaviour as the reason for his injuries, but I still think it’s his delivery itself that causes the problem. Elbow too high, to be specific. So here we have the club constantly saying they’re going on the assumption that they won’t have Zumaya and, to a lesser extent, Rodney, but every year they still depend on them. Actions over words.
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I dislike being all negative, so I’ll toss in that we’re fortunate to be in the Central Divison. You just have to hang in with everybody, maybe grab the division, then see what you can do in the postseason. That said, these division games coming up are huge. Leyland, put your best ballplayers out there, quit screwing around. No conversations with Verlander through the media, put a team on the field that can scratch out runs, have a reliever ready before the one on the mound falls apart completely. Pretend you’re in the postseason already for a couple of weeks.
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–Rich

Heartbreaking to watch after Edwin’s all-out effort. I was also a little nervous when Perry came out. He appears to be a little immature still. Probably needs time in the minors. I would have yanked him sooner. What can you say about Lyon? He screwed up Jackson’s game in Toronto and I wanted to throw him under the bus. He’s had a few very good innings, too, but is just not consistent. He just throws HR balls. Ugh! I try to trust him, but am finding it increasingly difficult. And, Robo, who knows what’s going to happen with him. I guess we’re stuck with him. Just an ugly, ugly game for us after the 6th inning. I’m not worried about the hitters because they’re not all going to be hot at the same time. However, Carlos is not looking good maybe because of the injury, I don’t know.

Why don’t they just put Carlos on the DL until he heals. This achilles thing could end up being a much worse scenario and right now, he’s not exactly helping the team while trying to nurse his ankle. Leland is so slow, sometimes. But that’s just my opinion.

“And the rest is history.” Ha! Good writing, Jason. I liked that.
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The article also reminded me of something I wanted to bring up last night before the game fell apart. That is, this thing the Yankees and Red Sox (and Angels) do with foul balls. It’s effective and that’s what worries me. Can you imagine if every team in baseball took this approach? Games would last forever and you’d need 20-man pitching staffs. I mean, Cano was even fouling off pitches out of the zone. It’s nuts.
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So in the interest of saving us all a lot of time taken out of our lives, I have the solution. You know in slow pitch softball how a foul ball with 2 strikes is counted as strike 3? Okay, we take that rule and bend it for baseball so a hitter is allowed a limited number of foul balls after he has 2 strikes. Let’s just arbitrarily say the number is 3. On that 4th foul, you have struck out.
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I know this would never happen, but I can hope and dream, right? :-)
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–Rich

My biggest concern with this team as it stands right now is the non-production from the top 5. OK the pitching was bad last nite, but overall it has been a big improvement over last year. I mean, the only time you felt confident we would have a well pitched game from a starter last year was when Armando pitched. That certainly has changed. But the signs of a “hitting funk” that Dan calls it certainly remain. I just don’t see Maggs hitting .300 or coming up with 20 dingers and 100 RBI. Carlos is probably one extra base hit away from the DL running on that bad Achilles. Without a supporting cast it makes it that much harder on Miggy. He becomes easier to pitch around.

–Ed

ED, I could not agree with you more, while the relief pitching was not good last night the hitting has been sparse at best the last week

4/28 – 4 hits
4/27 – 6 hits
4/26 – 6 hits
4/25 – 11 hits
4/24 – 3 hits
4/23 – 7 hits
4/22 – 18 hits
4/21 – 8 hits
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So with two exceptions the hits have been few and far between the last week or so. And you are completely correct in my opinion with 2,3,5 hitter scuffling Miggy is no longer as big of a threat so he is not longer hitting or getting anything to hit.
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