Closer by committee?

Joel Zumaya is back and available. Moreover, if the Tigers have a lead heading into the ninth inning, manager Jim Leyland indicated that Zumaya would close it out.

Asked if Fernando Rodney is still the closer, Leyland said, “Sometimes.” Other times, he said, it could be Zumaya or it could be Kyle Farnsworth.

Essentially, it’s like a closer by committee. But that’s not really much different than what Leyland was talking about last week, when he also mentioned that Zumaya could get some opportunities before his arm soreness prompted Leyland to rest him Saturday and Sunday.

77 Comments

Conventional baseball wisdom (there’s that term again), dictates that closer by committee never works. I’ve always wondered why that would be. Seems like you’d have more flexibility for matchups and such. I don’t have any problem whatsoever with trying this, other than I could be losing an autographed game used fielder’s glove.
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–Rich

Brilliant JL !!! So, what does JL stand for?? JUST LOSE??

You don’t win championships, any any sport, “by committee.”

Boy, THAT decision just has to be surging confidence in these relief pitchers!!!!!!? You think Farnsworth didn’t want to be in Motown last week? LOL

Get yourself a big ol’ clue, Just Lose……errr……..Leyland…!!

u sure have a way with clever name changes and abrievation associations… dumbrowski, Just Lose…….. yeah…..
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i like the fact that 7th graders are still interested in baseball. but at some point, one has to realize that the tigers upper management on all levels TRIED to put together one of the (paper) best lineups in the history of baseball, not upper managements fault they are underperforming. ‘dumbrowski’ is a direct slam to the man that not 2 years ago put together a team that had us in the WORLD SERIES. a feat, only accomplished by 2 teams a year. ‘dumbrowski’ took a disastrous team, a mockary (still today even) of a 2003 tigers staff and TURNED THEM INTO WORLD SERIES COMPETITORS.
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sadly, how quickly people tend to forget as they’re displacing anger and pointing fingers…. kinda makes me throw up a little in my mouth.
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mike

Well, I thought the Celtics had a pretty good 3-man committee this year.
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Okay then, name your closer. You want the Wild Man, the Lauching Pad, or the Injured Man? Seriously, which one?
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–Rich

rich-
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sadly there is no clear solution to the closer situation. i’m not a firm believer in a clear-cut closer not matter what the situation is. i think there are places that ‘closers’ have no business being in the game. the tigers need to find BP help after the WS that they won’t be in, clearly. idk who is a free agent or not, but as the lineup stands, i’m happy. well, so long as renteria and sheff get cut or traded for a couple XL little ceasar pizzas…… :)
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pitching needs to strongly be addressed this year. the tigers are now on the level of the yankees who spend spend spend spend spend on offense and usually get no consistant results……. hitting the ball can come cheap. pitching is an esential….

I’m still waiting for an answer from Mr. Just Lose up there. Jim Leyland and Dave Dombrowski are both fine men who have messed up some this year. I don’t need to see people taking shots at JL when he takes the only course available to him. Most of us are still Tiger fans no matter how bad it gets.
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–Rich

Rich, I’ve probably been a Tiger fan for longer than you’ve been alive. NOT that that means anything, it surely doesn’t. Being a “good man” is a great thing to be! I try to be the best man I can. I’ve raised 7 kids(4 adopted, and put them all thru private colleges, and they’re all doing extremely well. I’ve also been a businessman for 32 years, having worked for myself, owned many businesses, some did well, some not so. I’ve also been and am currently a neighbor and friend of an ex-Tiger great, who shares the same opinions that I do. (yes he has a little more insight, but I don’t have a totally errant idea of what to do with this club. I also taught pitching technique for 18 years.

On this here “blog” I’d rather just be an abrasive fan. I’m not here to win friends, and I’m not here deluding myself by thinking I’ll influence anyone, too.

The “errors” made by upper mgmt we’re foreseen early on. From the get-go. And they’ve been many.

I like most here, look very forward to spring training, every year. It’s one of the best times of the year. This last year, for me as a baseball fan, was filled with, “what????” and “you stupid ..*#***%*%%**……. for EXACTLY the reasons and results that we’re witnessing today. THIS team, is a team that, at least on paper, was poised for greatness, I believe. And in TigerTown, if you recall…….that hasn’t existed in quite a while…..

They should have stayed primarily on-course. They shouldn’t have, like so many do….. throw babies out with the bathwater in an effort to “win NOW” rather than, like Bobby Cox et al and the Braves did back 15-20 years ago, that brought a team to Atlanta that had the chance to win, year after year. THEY did things right! By the teams future, and by the fans who pay their salaries. The Tigers basically shot the ol wad, for a shot at a single trophy.

As for me…………. and probably yourself, however, we’ll continue to be fans year after year. So, unless some significant gutsy moves happen(this is just a biz), they’ll probably sink back into that tank, where they’ve come from. The upside unfortunately probably being that they’ll draft higher.

So, to answer your question……. #1. They shouldn’t allow Todd Jones on the field unless they have a 5 run or more lead, at ANY time during the game. Someone needs to teach Zumaya, “how to pitch.” I’d send him down for a month or 2 and allow someone to tutor this guy. That ain’t gonna be C.H. Same could be said for Verlander. It’s rediculous that guys with that kind of natural talent do what they’re doing!!! You disagree???? Rodney is not ready for the 9th inning and needs to master at least one more pitch, on any count which is key, before he takes that load on his shoulders. If that happens, he could be very effective.

Do away with the “role players” and allow a pitcher who’s hot, to keep throwing such as they will not do with Gallaraga!!

After this series with the White Sox, give the ball to Zumaya if he’s still in the pen and tell him, “mix your pitches, or your gone!!! Bring in Seay or Dolsi for the 9th, dump Robertson and Rogers(cause he’s gone anyway, ) and bring up some more kids…..

I say this because the season is basically OVER and who the heck cares if they win 60 games or 90 games if they’re not in the post season. In fact, I prefer to see them win 60.

Oh, and what do you mean that “you don’t need anyone taking shots at JL???”

Do you actually “need” something from this blog??

He’s a baaaaad manager and much of what his “limitations”are currently, at least in part are his own doing….

In a previous post, when i said we have to outscore our opponent to win, I obviously meant that our offense has to win it for us.
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Rich .. i keep on forgetting … that loss flexibility you talked about, after losing pudge was an excellent point. That might actually be a bigger problem.
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Slowly .. Sheff has moved up from 7th to 6th. It’s good JL is playing Ryan based on his numbers .. but what about the last series when Thames had good numbers against the pitcher?

And Rayburn gets a hit and a steal .. wow

Good call by Rich on Carlos Guillen. We need positives and we need heros.. Carlos is both but barely. He is someone to look up to but his results are most definitley down. his power is way down and his average is as well. What a great guy to have on your team but he is the guy (the token vet) that we need and not Sheffield. Hang on to Carlos and get rid of of Maggs and Sheff.
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Carlos has struggled but he has struggled with dignity.
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Good god –I am so tired of Nate as a starting pitcher. Please trade this guy while he has value. And please Nate, have a good close out this summer so we can do just that.

7 for 14 against Floyd now for Ryan…nice!
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I know this has been said a million times, but just a reminder–there’s still ALOT of baseball left to be played this season, and ALOT of crucial games. :)
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I know the Tigers obviously will need to win some of these games in order to have a chance but it’s not quite time to throw in the towel yet. I, also, am looking forward to spring training next year, but I’d like to see how the rest of the season plays out before we trade away the whole team.

That’s part of the trick. To make fans think we are still in it. Mathematically we are, realistically we are not. Nate will not be able to handle these guys. We need a bunch of runs.

These guys on the Sox stream think that Gavin Flyod is the best thing since slice bread :)

I would like people to refrain from confessional statements and personal attacks on players and commenters. There is a difference between attacks and tough criticism and if you don’t understand it, please don’t post here.

Also, personal information is okay, but we don’t need biographies here!

My opinion on the closer–put in Zumaya and get him some experience. He’ll probably not succeed and this adversity can help him work hard during the off-season. Then next year he’ll have a chance of doing a good job. Either it’s him or we trade for someone. Rodney, Jones and Farnsworth are not long-term options.

The Ump is really inconsistent .. to both teams ..

Hmmm… I don’t see why you send Guillen with no outs and a 5-1 lead…

Is it just me?

steve so far that is the best blog post i’ve read all day. including my own…

Steve … it’s not hatred .. just some light hearted fun .. sorry that you are taking this too seriously

The commentator thing .. i mean … I do stand by my opinion of the Sheff situation, or the handling of Thames

oh, and btw, mitch, i think you are severly in the minority. i think everyone that blogs on this site HOPES and in some cases, PRAYS for the tigers to finish strong…. you’ve laid out this opinion of the tigers as you probably have in 3/4’s of the FREEP blog. completely negative. by HOPING the tigers only win 60 games this season, to me proves you are no tigers fan.
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tiger fans like myself and the rest of the 98% of the people here WANT the tigers to win, not HOPE for the tigers to lose so that management will all be wholesaled and fired at the end of the year.
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truly pathetic.
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go be a twins or chisox fan, as i’m convinced you probably already are. as i said before, none of WANT the tigers to lose, except you.
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oh and BTW, i live next door to the entire ’84 and ’68 squad, they agree with me too, but i wont get into details………..

If the shoe fits…
If not…

A true fan follows the team, win or lose … as most of us here do. I watched almost all the games of the 2003 season .. I do feel like an idiot :) .. but i am a fan.

That was nerve wrecking .. 2 outs and then they score a run and 2 men on base … whew.

The sox are connecting with a bit more authority.

Ok .. there’s the 2 run homer .. Isn’t Nate able to adjust or JL should have pulled him sooner ? He has retired 1 of the last 6.

Nate is performing as expected. JL needs to be on the top step.

A true fans does follow the team but that doesn’t mean a true fan can’t have opinions or recognize faults that need to be corrected.

Dan .. i admit thats true .. but that would apply to everyone.

Dan .. you think Nate should have been pulled sooner .. or am i just being a monday morning quarterback? I thought the signs were all there.
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Leylland, what a trip. Now he is going to back up his “no hesitation” statement by trying to look cerebral with pitching changes. early in the game and Fossum gets an out, Nobody on and he immediately replaces him with Lopez/
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I don’t get that move–sorry if there were men on 2nd and 3rd and a RHB up then yes, but this is a placating face-saving kind of change.
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At least let Lopez pitch an inning or 2, now that you have used up one bullpen guy.

The signs were there. Leyland wants to reinvent the signs though.

This is the time that Leyland has been cringing about.
7 & 8 & 9. Who and when?
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Oh right. The answr is ………….by committee!

Don’t we have a schedule advantage down the stretch? We are done with Rox and the Yanks, except the 1 make up game.

Question: Anyone want to take a chance on Garcia?

We probably should take a chance on Garcia.
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Farnworth in now. Stands to reason since seay got the first 2 hitters out.

willis went 6.1 innings tonight. 10 Hits 5 Runs 4 ER 0 WALKS 6 Ks
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so yeah they hit him pretty good but 0 walks in 29 batters is a good sign for him.
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I’m so glad we got farnsworth instead of prospects.

Should have kept Seay in.

Anyone consider making the situational lefty the closer? He has been very effective.

Brilliant JL! JL does like consistency though and he is getting that with Farnsworth to be sure.
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I mean c’mon. Seay looked good and was in no trouble. JL is trying too too hard to llook like he is being (pre)active, t the point of being detrimental.

JL’s obsession to hook pitchers who show no signs of struggle, but leave in a struggling pitcher to “finish”

We can all agree that there was no hesitation. Maybe JL meant to not hesitate messing up. A man of his word :)

Just my opinion, but I think this is exactly why closer by committee doesn’t work! The manager is prone to out think himself instead of just leaving guys alone and letting them do their job. Farnsworth for Pudge was absolutely horrible. And I did say that when the trade was first made. Farnsworth is not a good pitcher, period.

Pierzynski is 5-7 with 2 HRS against Farnsworth. What is Leyland getting paid to do exactly?

Pudge wasn’t going to be here next year, anyway. There’s still a chance Farnsworth can help in the 7th or 8th innings. Sure don’t like seeing him pitch in the 9th, though.

What am I missing here? Why does JL keep managing himself into a loss? It is very frustrating to say the least.

Mary

Are they going to pull it off despite JL?

The melodramatic “hestitation” resulted in taking out a platoon LF for Raburn. interesting. Guillen, Sheffield, Inge and Renteria all survived the cut!

Bring Rodney in to bat and then pitch. That will show the Sox……and Leyland.

13th. Brutal. 3 RHB without a clue against Thronton. Yes, Sheff hit one foul, but then again, he hits lots of things foul. In fact his whole season has been foul.
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Rodney did a nice job. Now we have to hope Dolsi has some confidence to work with. I know I don’t have much in Dolsi.

Hopefully our guys can find a little energy. They are pretty blaise up to bat the last few innings..
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we need Curtis and Polanco to pick us up

Polanco sure did. He likes to hit HRs in bunches. Hit 2 in 1 game in NY too.
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Awful AB by Curtis though. Too bad he can’t bunt. He could probably pickup another 10 – 15 hits a year if he could. But that AB was strictly SACRIFICE and he did not seem to be willing to do that. The 1-1 pitch was ruled a ball but was the perfect pitch to bunt and he drew his bat back. Glad things turned out like it did but that was very discouraging to see Curtis handle that AB like that. I like the kid so much that I was surprised to see that kind of effort. It did not look like he was happy with the directive at all.

Why did I stay up for that?!

Because we’re masochists.

I don’t know how many times I have said unfreaking believable. UNFREAKING believable. They certianly find ways to lose games don’t they. If it isn’t the starters, it the hitters, or its an error that should of ended the game or the pen. Unbelievable.
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Not very enjoyable anymore. Farnsworth is a dream. The game would of been over in the ninth if it weren’t for that idiot.

The team is imploding. They do not have confidence in themselves and when they do get out in front (after uninspired play in extras), as soon as they get a lead they put pressure on themselves as to how they are going to blow it. .
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Renteria has missed some awfully easy plays this year. The pop-up that was botched a few weeks ago and then this high-hopper. Good Grief. I don’t understand how an experieinced player can miss those kinds of plays. You can’t get ‘em all but there are times that you just can’t miss them—at all.
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Tigers had a chance to pick up Dotel and Percival last year, but missed the boat.
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I had a bad taste in my mouth after Curtis’ last AB. It seemed to define the lack of the team’s technical ability that we have witnessed all year. It was a very negative AB by a usually positive ballplayer. Almost read the dissension in his face when he was asked to drop one down and when such a pure player reacts this way to that situation then you know there is something amiss in the dugout.
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Zumaya lost the game but the team played like it was going to lose from the 6th inning on.

Goes back to when JL pulls Seay. Why?
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Gets the first 2 guys out in the 8th. Nobody on. No trouble indicated.
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Leyland has this fixation that he is going to show the Detroit baseball world that he is in charge and a genius of sorts.
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Please Leyland. Please retire. We can’t stand watching you do this to OUR team.
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You have not conveyed a sense of competence to this team. They do not believe in each other and for that, you have to be held accountable.

Fastball. Fastball. Fastball. Fastball. Fastball. Bad curve. Fastball. Fastball. Fastball. Fastball. Curve. Fastball. Fastball.

Someone’s got to tell this guy that THESE hitters also can tee off on the 99mph heater.

This aint Old Dominion or AAA…

Jim Leyland says, “That’s my lineup. I’m not going to explain my lineup.

“What you see on the wall, write it down, and take it up to the booth.”
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Now there’s the kind of guy I like to interact with media and fans.
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Sheff will play again tomorrow since he did hit a HR the other day and did hit one foul tonight. Can’t take him out after he’s gone 0 for 5 and struck out twice. That would be bad form. Can’t take him out when he hits cause that would not be right. Can’t take him out when he’s hurt beacause he hasn’t admitted to you that he’s hurt.
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The arrogance of JL will also play Renteria tomorrow. No way he will sub him after a crucial misplay in the 14th. He’s not going to embarrass him like that. Might have to wait till he tears his other hamstring.
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Jim Leyland has created a 2008 reality version of the Gong Show.

I agree with some of you & disagree with others. Was looking like a good game until JL pulled Seay. What??? Did he feel like he needed to show us what a GREAT DEAL was made to get Farsworth. Again, bite in the backside. In the last 2 months he (JL) has made some very stupid decisions, and with every so called “great descision” he makes it turns around and bites him again. Does he ever take the blame for losing the game….NO…it’s always the players fault. Yes, we do need some good pitchers since they are as vital to the game as the hitters. But most of all you need a smart coach to know when to pull a pitcher and who to replace him with. I had someone tell me a few weeks ago that JL got the Tiger’s to the World Series back in 2004, but then when you think back they did lose. JL made some stupid decisions then too. You can’t win games if you don’t make the right moves at the right time and try telling that to JL. I’ve heard him speak many times (well when I can understand his mumbling) and never do I hear him say he was wrong! As for the Pudge trade, we all know it had to do with money and how dare JL or Drambrowski comment on Pudges performance. If that’s the case there’s a few others on the team that better be worried about being booted too! I love my Tiger’s and will stay a fan no matter what…but watching what I’ve been seeing has raised my BP the last month or so!

Well, I fell asleep after the 10th inning and am glad I did, what another bummer morning to wake up and see the score. Can’t blame our hitters this time, we got more than enough offense for one night. Horrible, horrible pitching again. Some of our fielders better start practicing pitching as backups as many pitchers as we went through last night. Oh Farnsworth – another hr? I can’t blame Leyland on all these pitching woes, when your starter can’t go 7 innings you have to pitch your bullpen and that means all of your bullpen. They aquired Farnsworth so they do have to play him, unfortunately it was another horrible outcome.

I give props to Rodney for having a good outing after a few terrible ones, I hope that helps his confidence. I missed the end but do know our offense did its part and defense/pitching did not.

One more props to Ryan Raburn for his night of legging out hits, bunts and a stolen base. Am wondering if his bunt and stolen base were on his own or ordered? If he did it on his own then he is very smart for showing his manager that he has some speed. Hey, some is better than none!

Oh yikes, I’ll watch again tonight and watch through my hands over my eyes and wish we pull a turnaround. Each game I feel like saying the season is over, but of course mathematically it isn’t. We just have to get our pitching situation taken care of.

I will start teaching my 18 month old to pitch, but he won’t be of much help for a while.

Well after a very short night of sleep. Still unnerved by this pitching staff.
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What seemed automatic in 2006 get the pitcher through 6, Rodney in the 7th, Zumaya in the 8th and Jones into close, with and occasional Jamie Walker in to get the big lefty. It worked pretty well. We all thought JL was the Wizard of Woodward. Well this year we are lucky if the starter goes 6, and other than a few the pen staff is very unreliable.
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I to was not real happy with JL taking out Seay for Farnsworth, not because I don’t think that Farnsworth should be able to do the job, but because I didn’t trust him at all to get it done. And I guess I was right, but he should be able to get one stinking right handed batter out. Then when Rodney went in I was oh here we go, and he looked like the Rodney of old. Which is a problem with Rodney you don’t know which one you are going to get. And I got to say I was okay when Zumaya was brought in, he can surely get three out without giving up three runs. Well, a dribbler single a hard hit double later, we are in trouble. Yes Renteria screwed up big time, but the fact remains that Zumaya still gave up a single, a double and a home to Nick Swisher. And I know you all don’t need a recap of the horror but it makes me feel better.
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I guess what I want to say that you can blame DD or JL all you want, but the fact of the matter in a lot of ways this team was given every opportunity to succeed and the players are not doing it. They are going on the field and embarressing themselves and their owner and manager. Do I always agree with JL’s decisions no, but I am just and idiot who watches way too much baseball. The players are not getting it done. Whether it be the pitching staff on one day or the position players the next. They are not getting it done. There is blame to go around but in the end these guys are getting paid millions and underperforming.

Reading all the posts this morning is interesting, some blame JL while the others blame the players. I agree with both, but I do place more blame on JL. Sure, he has been given this team to work with and you have to play them, but the when and where he plays them makes no sense most of the time.

Last night was not the time to throw Farnsworth back in. Winning the first game of a series is too important. Farnsworth is too new to this team to know what to expect.

I am with all of you that ask “why pull Seay”? But, typical JL decision.

We all knew that Sheff & Renteria would be back in the game. The fans have all learned that when JL talks about benching guys that those 2 are not included. Yet, we continue to complain.

I was happy when we got Sheff, but he is not the player he used to be and should not play everyday. I hope he watches tapes of his current at bats, maybe that will open his eyes to his pathetic attempts to hit the ball. Did anyone else hear the very vocal person in the stands screaming ‘old man’ when he came to bat last night? Kinda sad.

Back to JL, I think the players must have lost all trust in him. His word means nothing and they have no choice but to obey his off-the-wall decisions, when they probably realize it is the wrong way to go. That alone can make a team not care.
Go Tigers, you’ll always be my boys.
Dee

gk,
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Agreed that the players are not doing it .. but i think it boils down to a very simple point .. that the Manager has to put this team in a position to win.
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I am sure JL has made some good decisions, but show his game reels to any other manager an i am sure they will make very different calls before the fact .. and field a diff lineup. He has made too many bad decisions.
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Sometimes, I get a feeling that JL is yearning to make in-game moves like in NL .. and sometimes .. he leaves the picther in as if his spot is gonna come up in the coming inning, so he can make a double switch. He stubbornly refuses to make moves before the game starts.
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Check out the AB’s before nate was hooked, back to the previous inning. It was obvious he should have been hooked before the gave up the 2 run homer. The hitters were hitting right off of the meat of the bat .. and he would up with 1 of 6 retired when he was pulled. Pulling Seay for that 1 out was stupid too.
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I understand people who say its the player’s job to perform. But i want them to think for a second, what if under a pressure situation(any game these days :)) your manager at work gives you an assignment that you are ill equipped to handle? Shouldn’t the manager know that? Isn’t that why he is the manager?

Well just a little interesting note for all of you Todd Jones haters. I know that I was unnerved to see him go down and appearently I was right. And like JL said last night in his post game comments maybe alot of people out there will now see how hard Todd Jones job was. Now do I think that he is the be all end all of closers, no. Do I think that his career is probably pretty much done?? Yes. Do I wish I had him rather than this trio of yahoo’s YES
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Just look at these numbers since the allstar break and by the way Jones is the only one that has converted a save since the break. But this year
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Todd has blown 3 of 31 save opportunities
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Miner has blow 3 of 3 save opportunities
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Fanrsworth has blown 2 of 3 opportunities
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Dolsi is perfect 2 for 2
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Rodney has blown 4 of 5 opportuntities
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Zumaya has blown 3 of 4 opportunities
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Seay has blow 1 of his 1 opportunities.
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So who would you all rather have. What you have to remember and that you all seem to forget. I don’t think that they planned on having Todd as their closer this year, but Joel had another freak accident, and Rodney was hurt. They had no choice but to sign Todd, he was the best available. And he for better or worse is the best that this team has right now. And I for one think we are in trouble until he is able to get back. And two of the three blown saves may have come as a result of some injury. So my hope is that he comes back okay as soon as possible. We need him.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=caple/080805&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab2pos1

that’s a cool article by Jim Caple on ESPN about closers and how they are overrated… interesting read.. i didnt get through all of it cause it’s rather long.

A rare appearance from Ty Cobb…

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You can always tell when the team isn’t doing well, everyone on here jumps on everyone else. Too many new faces (which is a good thing) to know each other anymore or how we all react to certain wins, loses, players, etc.

I don’t know where to start. So I won’t.
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–Rich

OK, let’s raise our hands!! C’mon, raise them high………..

How many of you out there in TigerLand saw that one coming? I’ll bet 90% of you did.

2 things, then I’m off to figure out what I’m doing today…

(1). When Renteria kicks that ball, you have a meeting with a guy like Zumaya, which didn’t happen. Too much adrenaline flowing in a guy like that, to simply leave him alone.

(2). If Zumaya(and I know I’m kicking that dead horse thing) is mixing pitches, he’s out of that inning. EVEN if he’s throwing to a larger strike zone. IF the dude is having problems, (and he usually is) with getting that ball over, what you don’t want him to do is to start aiming that ball. Do NOt pitch to the glove! Pitch to the hitter. Every batter up there, KNEW what was coming. More than that however, they KNEW “where” it was coming. IF the hitter is gonna hit a homer, you want him hitting it at least toward the foul poles. Not center field. This is a problem that could and should be fixed. Perplexing to me….!?!?!?

I agree, and enjoy the comments… I feel, just lousy, knowing that Seay should’ve stayed in, don’t understand the homer given up.. fell asleep 11- 14 then woke up hearing the noise, seeing the fact that Polly went deep for second time, but that bottom half!…
OMG! Edgar booting the ball… and serving up a homer.
That sums it up for me. Too many endings like this.. Our guys don’t deserve to make the playoffs like this. Seeing surges, like Rayburn hitting, or Cabbie’s coming around.. for examples, but the pitching.. I have lost faith in our bullpen. We need a clean slate to work on, and I am sorry, I am not a manager, or GM, but somebody better do some looking at the farm club.. Looking at teams we play, like Minn.. they lost two of thier superstars , and thier still doing it! TB Rays? Bunch of kids.. We know we could go on.. but seeing the veterans play like this, I think we went in wrong direction after 2006.
Belated wishes for Pudge… this is early to predict how Kyle Farnsworth turns out, but could be another E. Gagne? ooh!

Now I can say, there is always next year!
Jim..

Getting into the Real Season, right now. If this team doesn’t flip the switch within the next 2 weeks, and I mean really get it on….. then this season should quickly become “all about the farm system.”

Heads roll, both coaches and errrrrr….veterans….. and give these fans something to look forward to like they did just 2 short years ago before you decided to unravel a good thing. But keep those currently playing 3b/2b/1b/CF/LF, and don’t trade for anyone who’s already seen their best years or is over 27 years old. I’d leave the pitching staff mostly intact, but get JL and CH as far away from them, as you can……

There!!!! Now you have your initial steps towards building something worthy of the price of a ticket… Or, if you say, “uh…. we don’t understand…… give us an example…” I’ll look back at Dumbrowski etal, and say, “go watch Gardenhire!! Go watch Scossia!

There! Kindergarden Baseball 101 can go have recess now..

I don’t understand pulling Bobby Seay either, I made the mistake of thinking we actually had this one in the bag and then the Sox just kept creeping closer and closer. I turned my tv off after Farnsworth gave up the tying run.
I had to my poor dog kept running and hiding because I was yelling at the tv.

I had hoped to wake up to good news this morning. I’m with you Tiger Girl, I will keep watching and hoping and trying not to scare the you know what out of my dog.

Go Tigers……please!!

Just an old Tiger fan’s opinion— More than anything else, I blame the manager. Now I think, Jim Leyland is brilliant baseball man. But, like all major league managers, he doesn’t have(and no person does) the ability to control these Modern Day ballplayers. They are all muti-millionaires, with egos bigger than the average joe can comprehend! Even owners are afraid to critique them. Who is going to tell Sheffield face to face that he’ll be benched if he doesn’t raise his b.a. to at least .250? NO ONE–they’re all afraid of these guys from owners to coaches to writers and even fans! The league is full of guys batting under .250 and being paid zillions of $–and here’s the kicker–it’s accepted by all baseball people as standard behavior! It wasn’t that long ago that a major league ball player had better hit at least .270 (except catchers who could hit about .250) or you were sent down to improve your hitting skillls! It’s really a shame because baseball is a wonderful game! I’m just afraid it’s slowly turning into a SHOW, like the CIRCUS, rather than a competetive game. Where the participants trot onto the field and go through the motions(batting .214) but not really caring about the final outcome–win or lose! Like the elephants or the trapeze performers–just give us (the fans) a good show and we’ll be like Twin’s fans, happy that our starting shortstop(Adam Everett) is batting .189!

That Farnsworth trade was good for every team in the league EXCEPT the Tigers. I got to see that Alexei Ramirez dinger in person and I was impressed that the little man knocked it that hard… of course, it was Farnsworth on the bump.
–Jeff
http://redstatebluestate.mlblogs.com/

Couldn’t agree with you more JEFF.DIETEL. People want to jump all over Leyland and Dombrowski and not that there isn’t some blame there, on a team there is all kinds of blame. However what it comes down to is that this team isn’t performing anywhere close to expectations. And I feel like I repeat myself sometimes on here but it is very hard to win baseball games. It is even harder to make it to the playoffs all the overpriced players in the league cannot control injuries, etc..
.
So as I said in 2007 I hope to make it to the playoffs, will be disappointed if we don’t, just make it fun and interesting. They made it interesting for about 1 1/2 month, however to be playing so miserably and making it painful to watch, it isn’t even fun anymore to watch. And the thing is, I do watch every game and will continue to do so, I just cannot help myself. But lately it just isn’t fun.
.
Back to the overpaid athelete thing, I would think you would see more interested players consistently if a portion, if not a slight majority of their pay was incentive based. Then you would see guys running things out, hustling, stealing bases, and whatever else. They shouldn’t be unreasonable expectations, and maybe the player should be involved in what those expectations should be. No I am not nieve enough to think that it could actually happen, but wouldn’t it be interesting???
.
Look at what stupid Manny Ramirez is doing now that he is a Dodger, he is hustling, and diving for balls, running things out hard. Those are things that he hadn’t done in Boston for quite a while. Amazing what motivation can do. And maybe the only way to get to these guys is to hit them in the pocket book. Anyway just my two cents.
That being said

Jim Leyland on his lineup:

“That’s my lineup. I’m not going to explain my lineup.

“What you see on the wall, write it down, and take it up to the booth.”
.
I wouldn’t expect him to explain his lineup except for the fact that he’s the one making all these proclamations of change. Without that “won’t hesitate” business, I doubt anyone even lifts an eyebrow at last night’s lineup.
.
JL seems to be doing his own version of Ozzie Guillen. He’s already under fierce scrutiny from the fanbase, and making statements then not following through makes it worse.
.
–Rich

well gk…i agree. what if they did a salary cap like the NHL? do you think the players would freak out and not play for an entire season to prove a point?
.
i think it’s a good idea…plus maybe it would be less expensive for the fans to actually be fans! :) just my thoughts.

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