Cabrera up for clutch award

Thumbnail image for cabrera.jpgOnce again, the Tigers have a finalist for the montly Pepsi Clutch award. This time, it’s Miguel Cabrera, who finished July with 31 RBIs and hit .378 with runners in scoring position for the month. Voting runs through Wednesday at pepsiclutch.mlb.com. The other nominees are CC Sabathia, Carlos Delgado, Troy Glaus, Roy Halladay and Mike Mussina.

I’m off this weekend (you could probably tell that by no post yesterday). I’m back to work for the Chicago series in a few days. Until then, talk amongst yourselves.

105 Comments

Wow can’t believe no one has posted since last nite!!! Everyone at a loss for words? I’m already thinking about next year. DD has his work cut out for him. Think they may have to trade an Ordonez, Polanco, or Guillen to start rebuilding that shambles of a pitching staff. They don’t have a stud of a starter to build around. Don’t know if Bonderman will return to form. Middle relief is questionable at best, and who the heck will close? Probably going to have to deal something of value to get something of value. What’s everyone else think or are we still holding out hope for this year?

–Ed–

Yep .. less activity .. and i think not only coz it was a weekend but also because people are a bit disheartened with the recent losses.
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I hope they sign a couple of premier free agent pitchers, a started and a reliever in the off season. Trade sheff to Tampa, since he has a good avg. there .. even if we have to pick up most of his salary. A Joyce, Clevelen or clete can alternate with Thames as DH/LF.
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Thames is slumping .. but he has won us more games than Sheff for sure .. at a cheaper salary.

Most of those guys looked so disinterested last night that it made me the same way. I went off and worked on some much needed computer upgrades.
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I find talk of the myriad moves we need to make especially disheartening. We had an advantage in 2006 and into 2007, and we seemed to have blown it. I don’t care how anyone spins it, when you start making massive personnel changes, it’s starting from square one again. I hate to keep harping on it, but I’m still dumbfounded that no one seemed to realize the need to upgrade the pitching staff last winter.
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It also may be that Leyland’s approach is the wrong approach for this team at this time. This cool professionalism, while admirable, has appeared to create a club with no real drive. I kind of expect JL and his staff won’t be here next year.
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Moving to last night’s game, such as it was. The ball Cabrera hit had to hit that catwalk. I’m basing this on the reaction of both outfielders. They were clearly two guys staring up at a massive homerun, I’ve seen it hundreds or thousands of times. The Tampa announcers tried to say that they both lost the ball. That’s hooey. We got hosed (again) and, while it doesn’t seem like it now, 3-0 is a big difference over 2-0.
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On Zumaya’s wild pitch, he should have sprinted to cover the plate. I’m sure he didn’t expect Inge to race back and make a sliding, turning throw, but if Zoom had been there, they had a play on that guy. In fact, he jogged a few steps then began to stop. Heads up, pitchers, Inge does these things. Look alive out there.
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And last night’s strike zone was the most inconsistent yet, as unbelievable as that is.
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Anyway, Carmona check, Kazmir check, with Shields on Sunday. And we need to win like the next five in a row. Good luck with that.
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–Rich

And so much for Sheffield calling Tampa “home” with a .362 BA. He stranded 6 runners on base. How long will it be before someone decides that he is not going to hit like he used to. A .220 BA is terrible for a DH. They should change the title to DB, designated batter. Tampa’s lineup Friday night had one batter over .300 and the next highest was .277. They must be hitting in the clutch to be 20 games over .500. Meanwhile the Tiger hitters left 22 on base. If this was one game, but that habit has been going on for more than just this year in my opinion. Maybe they need to look into younger players who are hungry to prove themselves.

With bases loaded and one out in the first, to come away with only one run via the walk to Shef was demoralizing. Kazmir had to pitch to Cabrera, Shef, and Thames. I knew they would regret that missed scoring opportunity. A 4 run lead and the game should have been all but over.
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If this team doesn’t start pouring on the runs early and often, their season is over. We keep saying pitching is the key and it is, but we also know what this staff is pretty much capable of and we’re looking at it. Hitting is the one potential that hasn’t been reached yet. They need to start scoring runs. And they can’t be bothered by who the opponent’s pitcher is. They should be able to hit and beat any of them…… that’s how this team was put together anyway.
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They actually got Kazmir out of the game before he could finish 5 innings. That would seem to bode well for them but they still lost. I expect our pitching to give up 4-5 runs a game and so the need to score 6 runs. Someone’s got to deliver the big blow when 2 or 3 guys are on. Dan’s 3 run homer. They’ve got to score in bunches and keep the pressure on. They should be wearing out opponent’s pitching, not getting 3 hit games.

I still feel JL has to take most of the blame .. if not for his bizarre in-game or lineup decisions, then about bout the fact that he has lost his common sense. I know JL has made some good calls too, but how else can you explain Sheff getting so many AB’s when he is not only hitting sub-par but actually hurting the team with LOB’s and DP’s. At least, if Thames strikes out 4 times a game, it means he didn’t ground into DP’s.
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Cut him now and you might be able to salvage the season. Morale will be up, and a younger player will inject some energy too. Cut him later, and we will still have paid his salary but lost at the same time.

This team scores lots of runs, Marty. They just don’t score them consistently, and I’d say that’s probably true of any “big hitting” team. I don’t care how great a hitter is supposed to be, a good pitcher will shut him down. And there are tons of good pitchers in the AL. You can average 6 runs a game, but you won’t score 6 runs in every game. Our individual stats look good for most of the guys. That doesn’t necessarily translate into victories. They don’t hit enough homers and they can rarely manufacture runs. It’s all so inherently obvious to anyone who follows baseball that I can’t believe anyone thought they’d hit their way to the postseason with this crew.
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BH, while agreeing that Sheffield is doing nothing, we’re stuck with him now. The Pudge trade sealed that deal. Who else is going to DH now? Thames came up in the first inning against a guy struggling to throw strikes and swung at the first pitch he saw. It may have looked good to him, but time and place. Then it’s Sheffield who gets the walk. Can’t win with this group of players. Any move you make weakens something else. Joyce wouldn’t be playing against the lefty. That leaves Raburn. Is that an improvement? Santiago? The biggest effect of the Pudge trade is we lost any real flexibility we had. Inge could play anywhere, now he’s a catcher. A good one, IMO, but just a catcher.
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I don’t know, these are some of the reasons I’m predicting a .500 finish. What you see is what you’ll continue to get. You all know I don’t usually stress negatives, but this is honestly what I’m seeing.
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–Rich

Regarding last nights game, it kinda reminded me of the game at the beginning of the year in which Willis was throwing a no hitter, into the 4th or 5th with a million walks against the white soxs. Effectively wild. I was really disappointed yesterday. But then I was thinking the strike zone was wacky so no one ever knew where a strike or a ball was going to be called, then their pitchers couldn’t get anything over the plate consistently. Does that make it even harder to hit??? When there is no consistency what so ever??? Not trying to make excuses but it is just a thought.
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But that still doesnt take away the fact that two of their runs scored on pass ball and a wild pitch.??
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Rich,
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I am sure there are a lot of reasons and blame to go around .. and some of it is just luck. But what we can see as fans, not necessarily experts, how come JL just can’t see it. It might be that since he is part of the team, he might be missing the whole/big picture. I think if he just stepped back and saw from a neutral perspective, he would bench Sheff in a jiffy.
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While all our team struggles cannot be blamed on Sheff, it might be true that JL has shown favoritism towards him. Combine that with benching hot players, and playing struggling ones … day in and day out, and What do you get? A team low on morale, unsure of what will be rewarded and just trying to stay on JL’s good side . Whenever he had to make an example of under performers, he doesn’t and instead options Lopez to AAA, benches Thames when hot, doesn’t give the DH spot a chance to contribute .. etc.
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We know Sheff’s stats at DH, and when he was on DL, Leyland paraded Larish out there everyday, even when Thames was hot then. He wanted the DH spot to look awful in Sheff’s absence thereby making people believe that Sheff wasn’t as bad.
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I am pretty sure that if JL wasn’t the Manager .. Sheff would have been on the DL most of the year.

All true. My point was that NOW since Pudge has been traded, we’ve painted ourselves into a corner regarding Sheffield. It’s either him or Raburn when a lefty pitches. Him or Thames for righties. Marcus has been in a slump too. Like I say, you can’t win. And we don’t.
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Well Sheff just singled. He must have heard us talking about him. :-)
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–Rich

Sheff has hit a bit last 3-4 games .. thats nice .. but overall he had a lot more opportunities and LOB’s .. but its a step in the right direction.
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I hope he gets 3-4 more games and thats it. I worry JL will play him 20 games more .. and we will be out of contention by then .. so he will play in sept .. hit some meaningless stuff .. and gets to come back next year as a starter again ..

Last year Craig Monroe was released after posting the same #’s as Sheffield.
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To quote Casey Stengal ” he’s doing so bad maybe we would be better off if he was hurt”

Rich .. i understand your point .. but how bout being a man(JL & DD) sucking it up and shelve or release Sheff? Recall someone from AAA .. Sheff is not fearsome anymore.

actually Monroe had better #’s than Sheff

And Sheff just stranded 2 more runners. Now his total is 8 in 2 games at Tampa where he is supposedly a .362 hitter.

Whoa! Does Rogers have to full count on every batter? Not even 3 innings yet and 77 pitches.

That .. and Rogers has walked too may today .. so his count is up.

Nearly every move this organization has made from top to bottom, has been wrong since Dave and Jimmy got here.

A good move, (and yes, I can hear those cards and letters coming!!!!) would be to trade Zumaya, once he’s healthy for a great young player. He’s ALWAYS going to be a liability, physically, and he’s always going to be back and forth on the dl. Make a deal SOON for him, before his track record of these things, becomes too much of a deterrant.

And, after all….. in the clutch, he’s really not that effective anyway.

Well does Kenny have enough pitches left in him to go 5?
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Rich, my point was that, with this pitching staff, and based on this season’s performances, they will need to score 6 runs a game or close to that to win. They already need at least 5 to win tonight. I realize they won’t do that every game.
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This game is already getting out of hand. There’s a passed ball and the 5th run.
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The way the club is playing is indeed very discouraging. The starters, who were so relaiable just a few weeks ago, are now awful. The hitters are not doing their jobs, Ordonez included, which is being able to bring runners home.
And the relief staff has been only when they are ahead or behind 4 runs. Some exceptions do apply.
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Our problem , as ironic as it may seem, is that JL has NOT given up on the season. Because of this he will continue to trot out Sheff and Rent. And they will continue to continue.
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The trade we really needed was not Pudge so much as Sheffield. As Rich says, the Pudge trade actually makes this lineup even more inflexible. At the same time our defense is weakened further. Inge is, at best, adequate as a catcher. His value rests in his ability to play 3B which will now defer to Carlos. Trade Sheff and you can DH Carlos and play Inge at 3B. Or DH Thames (who is still preferable to Sheffield as far as I am concerned.
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Farnsworth may help but I almost have to add, what’s the point? We need someone who changes the team dynamic. Or “Chemistry”. They way they are playing now they really don’t have any.
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I’m pretty sick of Leyland too. He has been arrogant, rude, pompous, stupid and stubborn. Can’t see how those ingredients are going to constitute a successful manager.
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The way he has handled the situation with Renteria and Sheffield is, alone, enough to challenge his leadership

Rich,
I usually disagree with you on most everything. But I must respectfully disagree. We are not a .500 team when the year ends. Pitching has gone as far as it can go.

Greg

Yeah Dan, I meant to credit Rich with that thought as well as agree with him. Trading Pudge did make the lineup more inflexible. Inge at 3rd and Carlos at DH, with Pudge catching was a definite upgrade in the defense that they needed. It might have come down to the fact that no teams were interested in a .220 hitting DH. But dealing Shef and Renteria would have cleared out a lot of space for some needed changes. By the way, this game is really going down the toilet. 7-2.

I hate to jump al over this Inge catching gig, but we need to understand that this is (along with the shortstop) position is where you need exquistiely skilled “artisans” to truly become a great team. We all like Inge and his athleticism and energy but he is not developed as a MLB catcher. If the Tigers think they can get away with this ( and judging from them thinking that they could could get away with a teir 2 closer), they are badly mistaken. If we are to be a championship team we cannot have a utility man catching, an egotistical over-rated under-achieving DH, a closer who has difficulty throwing strikes and a manager that “likes his club and thinks team chemistry is a myth”.
Yikes!

This looks like a completley dysfunctional team again. Wonder if Farnsworth will ever get a chance to pitch?

IMO, the point of the seaason that defined that this was not a team of destiny was when Sheffield declared that he thought he should play LF and that would get him focussed.
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Torn labrum and damaged finger aside JL complied.
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I knew then that the inmates were in charge of the asylum.
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I’ve said this too much but Sheffield has changed the tenor of this team and has been a demotivating factor. I don’t blame the season on him as this was something that should have been easily “managed”.
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Dolsi looking predictably ineffective. The worst thing JL could do is bring in Farnsworth to a game like this. he would be sending him a very negative message.
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I have to say that I feel that our manger has been the single most determining element of the most disappointing season I have ever witnessed as a Tiger fan.

Sheff has absolutely no trade value, releasing him is the only option. Or maybe dl. Why would anyone give anything for him when its obvious the Tigers will end up releasing him.

In 2 games the Tigers are now 1-17 with runners in scoring position. Sheff has stranded 10 runners alone. I have to agree this season is most disappointing and I have been a Tiger fan for about 55 years now. They will have to be careful not to revert back to 2003 but changes need to be made. Some of those high contract monies will just have to be eaten and move on.

I agree with most of what u said Dan .. I wish someone would advise the tigers on what “Salvaging” means. JL has not given up on this year .. but he is doing everything that pretty much guarantees that the tigers won’ be playing meaningful games in September … forget playing in October.

Our 6 – 9 hitters have 17 LOB’s combined.

Let’s see what they’ve got!
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Brent Clevlen
Dustry Ryan
Ian Oslund
Chris Lambert
Wilkin Ramirez
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I guess a little blame for this season has to be accepted by Dave Dobrowski as well.
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Tiger fans are great fans. They will lovingly accept a retooling of this team. Even if it means it might take 2 years to crystallize. let’s get some speed and talen on this club.
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Ordonez stopping at 2nd on a base-hit to RF is driving me nuts. Not catching up to fly balls also drives me nuts. Poor plate discipline from him has him among the leaders in GIDP.
Trade him—you WILL get something for him NOW.
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Sheff, Rent, Robertson, Inge and Jones all have to go. Probably Thames too.
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Open up your eyes DD.
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Rogers may want to go but I bet that young man could do a job out of the bullpen!

I don’t blame DD as much .. He also knows we need pitching .. but there wasn’t much pitching out there .. and what we gave up was prospects to win this year. He got us what was available.
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JL was the one who was handling this team .. stars .. who didn’t need chemistry, who is close to sheff. I figure JL must be rooting for Sheff in front office meetings .. or else he would hv been long gone. I don’t think DD would say one thing and do excatly opposite the next day.
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DD is the Architect and JL is the construction Manager :)

Dan, exactly what you didn’t want… he is pitching Kyle in this meaningless game .. now i don’t blame him for not wanting to be here.

The only excuse for this is that JL told him before the game that he is pitching him in the 8th inning today regardless of the score.
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Otherwise you have just insulted the guy.

BH–we needed pitching at the beginning of the year. In DD’s defense he thought picking up Willis was going to be a coup and really solidify the staff. But the mistake was not getting a RHP for Robertson. They could have.
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Injuries did hurt ,but in reality, this club showed it was incapable of living up to expectations the very first month (if not week) of the season.

As far as not wanting to be here–I think it was more of wanting to be in NY. He may have settled in, and was certainly pitching well. I think it is an easier move for Pudge than Farnsworth. Pudge is on the cusp of retirement and it would be an honor for him at this stage of his careeer to don the Yankke pinstripes. He knew he was going to go somewhere soon–this was just a little sooner than he may have thought. He may have a tough go of it in the Bronx.

I don’t want Kyle if he didn’t want to be here …. but i do understand the sentiment.
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A team can fool some fans and BS .. but a player sure knows which way the tigers are headed, and whats happening in tigertown. The hear the inside info. So they might not want to be a part of this mess .. a clubhouse with no fire or chemistry and Favoritism.

Still working on my computers. It’s amazing how much you can get done when the Tigers don’t hold your interest.
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Sheffield has been a popular target for two years and he’s certainly earned it. I just think there are much bigger problems than him. The LF business you astutely pointed out, Dan, is part of a bigger problem with JL himself. At this point, I’d just bring up Clevlen and stick him in there, Thames to DH. That’s all I’ve got on that one.
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Obviously the scouting on big league players was completely off base, hence Willis and Renteria. Address that. The minor league scouting is better, and the amateur scouting is good.
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Coaching at all levels seems suspect. We’re not getting many players playing the game correctly. Those that do seem to be shunted to the side in favor of “names.” Leyland and his staff are done here, it appears. A fresh staff brings a fresh look at who we have. I can’t believe another mananger would keep pushing Sheffield, Renteria, Rodney, etc.
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I suggested trading Zumaya several days ago. Don’t give him away, GET somebody in return, or just keep him. There are a number of guys throwing upper 90s these days. Trade Rodney to anyone dumb enough to believe that a 31-year old is still a project.
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I have a small list of keepers, “untouchables” I suppose is the en vogue term for it. Granderson among the position players. Verlander, Bonderman, Galarraga and Miner among the starters, and this is because these are exactly the kinds of starters we’d look for in trade. Then we can bring up Porcello to round it out. There are some I’d keep unless I got a really good offer, and that would include Cabrera and Polanco to continue at 1st and 2nd, and Guillen and Inge as guys who can play multiple positions. Inge will be a fine catcher as soon as he’s back at it full time, but it’s a waste of his true talents. I’d rather acquire another catcher and use Brandon to play anytime anyone needs a day off. That would put him out there about everyday.
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That’s it. The rest of the roster is fair game. Like I said before, let’s fill needs, not seats. Tiger fans will flock to see any competitive team, and big names from the past are not required. That was the big mistake this year.
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–Rich

If someone was to ask the question, just 2 years ago, “what team looks to have the most promising future in MLB?” probably more would have responded by saying, “the Detroit Tigers.”

In this short amount of time, “someone” has managed (errrr mis-managed) to run this team right into the cesspool.

This team and organization, is a disaster!! They’ve held onto everyone that they should have considered expendable and released, and let go, traded, benched, or sent back to the minors most of whom could have quite possibly made a difference, starting, but not stopping with Jairgens and Miller(who eventually is gonna be a star in this league).

It’s gotten to be time!! Time to cut the bait, since there’s no fishing in this hole.

“Normal world- to – Insane asylum $*%#@^(#…….. There’s a group of players who hitched aride and you need to PULL OVER….. and let em out!!!!. Starting with Sheff and that receiving end of the Jairgens trade, Rent-eria. SEE YA!!! Late !!!!! Get OUT of my car!!!! And off my team!!!!! then, eject JL and anyone and everyone who thinks like this guy. JL………………. “quit gravytraining us here fans for a pipedream like long-shot championship before you croak!!! It ain’t happening and we rather this team get that noose off it’s throat before it spirals into that same 15 year debacle that it just came out of.

Consider yourself = Divorced, California style!!!!

I have resigned myself as well. The club has defined itself as wanting and unfortunately, the players have bought in.
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I too was thinking about “untouchables” today. Pretty much in agreement with JV, Bondo, Granderson, Cabrera, and Polanco as my choices.
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Pretty much untouchable for me would be Galarraga, Zumaya, and to a lesser degreee, Guillen.
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Those that I would think might bring me something more valuable in return are Thames, Rodney, Inge ( I can’t bring myself to thinking he will be a PLUS player as a catcher) and, hold your hats, Ordonez.
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Those that I would trade and hope to get something in return would be Renteria, Robertson, Raburn, Fossum, and Lopez.
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I think you have to get rid of Sheffield, and thank Jones and Rogers for what they have done. I see them both needing to retire, though I would suspect Jones will find a home on losing team.
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Part of being a baseball fan is a feeling you have perceived something that many others haven’t, or are unwilling to admit. Mine is Sheffield. I think he has not only obviously not helped the team, but has hurt them. And much more than his performance has indicated. He has been a great player and may even make the HOF, but I think he has not been a good fit for this team and I believe when he and leyland are gone, we will hear some anecdotal support my THEORY.
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I’d like to see Guillen stay. I think the guy is past his prime, and probably does not justify being given a full-time position next year. But I think he is as close to a leader as we have, smart, loyal, honest, a good influence and deserving to be a Detroit Tiger as long as he wants to.
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I guess this all sounds a bit too much like a premature post mortem with 52 games left but unless these guys can put together about four 9 or 10 game winning streaks, I don’t see much room for optimism.

Here is a link to the USA Olympic Basebal site:
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http://www.usabaseball.com/teams/index.jsp?team=940
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I am pulling for Canada in the Olympics but am hoping for some good performances from our Toledo brethren, Hessman and Neal.

You all crack me up. And believe me I don’t like all the losing anymore than you. But infact the Rays are good. We are not the only team that is having problems with them. Are we beating ourselves in a lot of respects absolutely especially Fridays game, not taking advantage of any of those walk was inexcusable.
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But here is the Rays record against the better teams
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Twins: Rays win 1 Rays lose 1
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Angels: Rays win 4 Rays lose 2
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Red Soxs: Rays win 6 lose 6
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White Soxs: Rays win 4 lose 3
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Yankees: Rays win 5 lose 7
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So as you can see they are beating all the very best teams except for the Yankess. They are for real kinda like the Tigers in 2006. (I refer to the year I was happy).
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Regarding the trades you were all talking about I was not happy with the trade for Renteria. That being said I understand why DD did it. Last year we were all complaining about Guillen and his error. Well DD went out and got a guy that has a decent fielding percentage and sporting a 320 batting average. And remember in the beginning of this year he was the only guy hitting. So on paper it looked like what we needed. And don’t tell me we had Santiago, up until these year he was a horrible batter, way worse than Renteria is this year. He has found a little bit of stroke this year. So in retrospect it hasn’t really worked out as hoped but it did look like an okay plan to me.
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No regarding Cabrera and Willis. Again on paper it looked okay. We were going to get a great young player in Cabrera, and a once terrific young pitcher who they hoped could be a number 4 or 5 guy. Well, the Cabrera thing worked out okay, but who knew that Willis would have as much trouble as he is having. He didnt have that much trouble last year. It was not sparkling but it was definately servicable. Then on top of it he also gets hurt which stunts he growth so to speak. And as far as I am concerned Miller may never grow to be anything. If you see his numbers even this year before he got hurt they weren’t all that??? So again if all works out it looks like a pretty good trade to me.
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But who knew Rodney and Zumaya would get hurt, that Bondo would have a blood clot and be out for the season?? Yes Galarraga has been good, but Justin, Kenny, and Robertson have been underperforming and extroidinarily disappointing. JV is a head case Kenny is just getting old but at least he tries, (Unlike JV) and Robertson, well I don’t even know about him. But you have to remember minus Galarraga this is the pitching staff that took you to the world series. I believe that DD probably thought that after last year hangover from the playoffs with the addition of Willis they would probably be pretty good again, I did.
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That being said I don’t believe that we will see Sheff this next year or Renteria. But to me it really comes down to pitching and that staff is really underperforming which for me maybe we need a new pitching coach. A new voice to listen to. Because it has been painful to watch these last dozen or so games (the pitching is aweful)
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But don’t forget the Rays are good, and we never do well against guys who can run. There is a reason they are like 30 games over 500.

I understand retooling is needed .. but not to the extent everyone is suggesting. In that respect, i am with you gk. I have already posted most of my thoughts in the last few days .. will post a summary later. I don’t blame the trades either.

The Cleveland Indians went to the World Series last year.
This year they are in last place in their division. They lose Westbrookand Hafner basically for the year, and Martinez and Carmona for long stretches. Their fans are realistic as to their chances. What the Tigers have shown is with the loss of 40% of its starting staff ,and two top relief pitchers for the first 70 games, is that with a little break and some good baseball for a 15 game stretch, they might could perform a miracle. I don’t expect that, but we Bloggers have truly forgotten what we have been playing through this year. I do think it shows that this was a potentially
dominating offensive ballclub, but it didn’t work out. I agree that along the way, the reality should have taken over and adjustments to the lineup, especilly with Shef and Renteria should have been made. The WhiteSox would not be in first place rioght now with one of their top line starters on the DL, and Jenks on the DL for the first 70 games. We were magic in 2006, Cleveland last year, and the Twins this year. It is what it is.

Glad we crack you up, GK. At least we’re performing a service. :-)

I can clarify (I hope) my own position. I named the guys I wouldn’t trade, and you’ll notice I included 4 of our current starting pitchers on that list. Everyone else I’d listen to offers. Doesn’t mean I’m trading every single one of them, just listening to offers. I’m also not basing my thoughts on injuries or wins and losses. I have not liked what I’ve seen this season, performance-wise. 50 years of baseball has taught me something, I’d hope. We have a number of overrated (by ourselves and the media and the club) ballplayers.
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Every team has injuries. We had ‘em last year, just as Cleveland has this year. We were realistic about that, I thought. I didn’t see the need for big trades for position players last winter but we got ‘em anyway. I wasn’t among those howling for a new shortstop. If we needed anything, it was pitching. Good heavens, Rogers is 43. Jones 40. Robertson has never been dependable. What was the brass thinking?
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I don’t care if we have 162 games left, we still wouldn’t win it with the group we have. That’s just what I see. It has nothing to do with the Rays being good. I knew this in January. I’m a big enough fan that I wouldn’t book a trip out of the country during the playoffs if I thought the Tigers would be in them.
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Two things: Zumaya is injury-prone because of his delivery, and Ordonez will be 35 next season. This needs to be taken into account.
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–Rich

Rich,
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You don’t have 4 of our current starting pitchers on the list, while we do accept that its our pitching that needs help and we should have acquired pitchers .. starters and relievers ..
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We save 4 of the current lot and what do we get ? I am not sure will be a championship team then.
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We like it or not .. maggs, Cabby and Guillen are not going anywhere. Same bout inge .. the league is pretty thin on catchers .. Polly stays .. and Renteria might get a second chance .. cuz of his injuries .. and maybe gets more than a year in AL this time to prove himself unlike last time.
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Sheff, Nate, Zumaya and Rodney surely need to go .. with their inconsistencies. Thing is, doesn the management have it in them to pull the trigger.

The above also assumes that kenny and TJ are not resigned.

Believe me this board has entertianed me a lot more than the Tigers have in a while. Where I used to think that we would win games because they were good, now I believe it is most luck. Ang Rich I agree with you it all comes down to pitching. And right now I am talking about starting pitching (relief pitching is a whole other headach) But if going into this season you would of told me that Verlander would be as inconsistent and down right crappy as he has been I would of told you that you were crazy.
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I sure didn’t see that Bondo was going to be out for the season. I thought that Kenny would be okay probably low 4’s or so. And at time Kenny has been pretty good to.
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Now Robertson, I don’t know what to make of him. He certianly has never been a tier 1 pitcher. But it 2006 even though his win loss record was mediocre his ERA was fantastic. He really suffered from a bit of run support and even to a certian extent last year. (And I am just judging the most recent years.) Well this year he has some of the best run support in the majors per nine innings, but he seems to have forgotten how to pitch a bit. I really didn’t see a collapse coming like this for him. I don’t expect him to be a #1 starter or anything, but I certianly expected him to be a 4-5 starter which is what he should be.
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Galarraga has been a real pleasent suprise in place of Dontrelle, and I stated my feeling on Dontrelle earlier. I still have hope that he can do something for next year. This year I think is out of the question.
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I will go on record in that I liked the Cabrera trade, I liked it a lot. And I will also say that although I think that Sheffield is probably done, I think that all of the Sheff haters forget what he did for the Tigers in the first half of last year. He was down right awesome and don’t forget that we started to tank when he got hurt last year. I think that his body is just down right worn out these days and he is not even close to the player he was last year. And I don’t think that we will see him in a Tigers uniform next year. But he gave it a shot and has tried to live up to his contract. But I don’t hate on the guy because he is giving it a shot, he is just getting old.
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Well anyway that is just my opinion right or wrong.

Regarding the off season trades .. all those who are unhappy with DD .. check out how all the prospects that were traded are doing .. Except for Jair .. none of them are having an impact? .. Is it. and he is in the NL where Renteria led the leauge in hitting .. so go figure.
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MARLINS :
– Miller is on DL .. 5-9 with 5.63 ERA in the NL and 1-6 since may 27 with 5.94 ERA
– Cameron Maybin is in the minors.
– Mile Rabelo is in the minors. And the contending marlins wanted pudge from us .. and some of us here were missing Rabelo earlier.. Really?
-Eulogio De La Cruz in the minors .. In the majors .. 4.1 innings, 10 runs, 8 earned .. in 3 games.
-Burke Badenhop 6.08 ERA in 47 innings . on the 60 day DL
– Dallas Trahern has an ERA of 6.42 at AAA inn 88 innings.
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I know these are prospects .. but we got Cabby in return .. and accept it or not .. he is an elite hitter, who got off to a slow start.
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The Trade was made for Cabby and they wanted Maybin and Miller both. Since we would lose miller, and the marlins didn’t want willis cuz of how much they would hv to pay him, the trade was made to include willis and give up 4 lesser prospects..
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I still don’t see anything wrong in the value, then or now. We tried to make our present better, and it did. Why it didn’t translate into wins is another matter. That i would blame JL.

Kinda suprised not to see Marcus in the lineup today. He actually has pretty good numbers at limited at bats against Shields. Not to mention righties hit him a lot better than lefties, which I know is backwards but true. I don’t know if he is letting Joyce play because it is his birthday and he is in his hometown BUTT. I guess if that is the case let Thames DH and rest Sheff. Again just my humble opinion.

GK .. I don’t blame sheff for trying .. he was a good hitter .. and I am sure he is giving it all he has. My problem is with JL .. not benching him or putting him on DL. A player is gonna try his best to be in the lineup .. can’t blame him .. it’s the manager who is at fault.
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Also .. he got a lot of love when he played good .. so he will get a lot of hate when he is bad .. it’s a part and parcel of the game.

I just don’t like the booing of your own guys. I go to the park a lot to see games, and even when they were really bad I never heard booing like I have this year. Drives me nuts.

I listed Verlander, Galarraga, Miner, and Bonderman. Bondo is still a current starter, he’s just injured, and we’re talking about next season. At least I was. The reason I listed them as keepers is because the four of them are about as good as anyone we’d receive in trade. I’d love to have better but I don’t think Santana and Morrow are coming over here.
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Our pitching may improve with a different coach, but that means no Leyland.
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I liked the Cabrera trade, said so at the time, and still do. I hated the Renteria trade, said so at the time, and still do. Even more.
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I liked the Sheffield trade too. Injuries killed that one. And JL’s dogged determination to play him injured.
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–Rich

I am ok with the renteria trade .. not happy or upset. I agree with you on the Sheff trade. I always hoped he would be a tiger someday. That trade was not bad .. but injuries has made it bad as of now.
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GK .. i agree with you on the boos .. thats not cultured … i just meant unhappy

Rich .. I like miner and Galaragga .. but i am not sure keeping them in the rotation would get us a championship. I wanted JL to start miner and lopez .. but that was in place of Nate and injured Bondo..
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Trade market is thin out there .. but we should pursue CC or someone similar .. 1 starter like him would change everything.

You guys read the piece on the homepage? says JL won’t hesitate to make changes in the line up.
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Now that makes me ROFLMAO. Someone explain to him he is way past the hesitation point.

I would Like JV, someone like CC, Bondo, Galaragga as the 4 starters .. i would get someone else for miner .. trade him .. he is good and can start .. just not sure we can get a championship. Get an innings eater, reliable one for the 5th spot.

Our offense sucks today too .. 9 hits 1 walk .. and 2 runs. Galarraga has us in the game as of now.
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Today was the day we should have had a fresh Farnsworth.

Now what is JL waiting for .. he should have used the hook after the 1st run scored… No hesitation .. huh

Sheff just homered .. so he has produced enough to warrant starting regularly for another 3 weeks .. isn’t that the yardstick for him ? :)

Yeah, How’d you like that Mr. Aussie-Aussie! You can take a seat now.

Well bhavin you got your blowpen now it’s a loss. Should’ve kept Gallaraga in!

Ya .. I don’t think that we should hv kept galarraga in .. but you are of course right in calling it the bowpen .. Farnswort has caught the bug too.

I would have stayed with the hot hand myself. Bobby Seay. Rodney as a closer makes Jones look like an ace.

TJ is not perfect .. and he is injured now … but as i have always said … he is better than Rodney or Zoom.

Yep :) .. hope FR pulls this one in

This is ridiculous .. and i know i will sound like An idiot … but get anyone to close .. anyone.. even from Toledo or Erie .. or even Lakeland .. Pick up Livan to close .. This is getting out of hand.

Unfreaking believable. Galarraga sure got the short end of the stick on this one. Farnsworth was aweful. And I said to my spouse when he came in why not bring in seay he is better against lefties and Farnsworth is not very good. And unfortunately my guess came to fruition.
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Then Seay was awesome of course. Then Rodney. He is just not ready for the closers role. I don’t know who is but geez. It is crazy. Walk, hit batters walk, single finally another walk to get the win. It is very ugly. This pitching staff is embarressing itself and their owner, manager and GM. They absolutely stink..

So, we read, “Leyland won’t hesitate to make changes.” WHAT THE HELL DOES THAT MEAN!!!!!

How about changing YOURSELF first you idiot!!!!

Oh, by the way JL….. you’re an old guy like me….. weren’t you around in the 60’s and 70’s even the 80’s when I guy was pitching a good game, you let him keep going ??????

Seems to me that we’d have about 20 more wins this year, if your “policy” was more like that.

FORGET your stupid 7th inning, 8th inning , 9-10 th inning guys. Let the stinking hot pitcher, freaking close out the game now and then……..

Why not think, “hey, let’s win this game today, rather than being so over mindful of how many pitches the guy has thrown. These aren’t suppose to be girls JL !!!!!!

See article: “Leyland won’t hesitate to make changes.” What changes? He only has so many players and pitchers.
Which player has hit with men on base? Which pitcher in the bullpen can you rely on? DD has to step in and make some changes to give JL someone better to rely on hitting and in the bullpen. Can’t make wholesale changes? Then try some little ones. I think Dolsi has worn out. He must have options. Try another pitcher from Toledo or AA. If you go any further, you have to use the DL or outright release.
Same goes for players. The only one with options is Joyce. More? Now you are looking at releasing Sheffield, Thames, or Renteria unless you can get someone to take them from the waiver wire. What a mess. Stuck in quicksand.

Yea, Rodney stinks today. He’s not ready for this role!!! THIS ONE is on JL, AGAIN!!!! Worst mgr in the bigs.

Yank some of those arms up from whereever the heck they want to bring them from. At least maybe they’ll be effective for a little while since no ones seen them yet…!?

Gkgruden1, the problem is that nobody is ready to close on this team. Davd Dombrowski traded away a great amount young talent, but for all of that young talent he traded away, he recieved absolutely no bullpen help. Dombrowski traded away player who could have been stars of tomorrow for Detroit to win a pennant in 2007 or 2008. What has has ended up with is a team that will probably won’t finish five game over five hundred this year.

The Sheffield trade was a horrible trade. Far too much money has been wasted Sheffield, hitting at .230 this year. Dombrowski gave away three young pitchers for the washed-up Sheffield. Dombrowski gave away Gorki Hernandez and Jars Jurgens for Renteria, hitting at .253 this year.

I don’t see the Tigers anywhere near the World Series in th near future. Dobrowski gave away far too much and has gotten far too little in return during his trades made since the 2006 season.

You are right about the trades. Look at his record before that. He “stole” no-names like Guillen and Polanco. Then when he goes for all-stars, they all stink the place up.

I didn’t like the Gorky’s – Jurrjens tradie either. But again I am not sure that I saw a huge gigantic need for more pitching this season. None of the pitching that they traded away for except Jurrjens has done anything this year, and some of it may never. And most of it is on the DL.
Renteria is a lifetime close to .300 hitter. Is he underperforming certianly but who knew he would be so below were he was.
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But the only thing that I kinda disagreed with JL in the game, is that I would of liked to have seen Seay in the 8th. Farnworth if you look at his numbers, he is not that good against lefties at all. Seay on the other hand is good with either and there were two lefties coming up. And saved Farnsworth in the ninth. Rodney is a head case and unreliable. He certianly isn’t the Rodney of 2006, not even close. But that being said I cannot kill JL for his decision to put in Farnsworth in the 8th. And all those Todd Jones haters were so happy to see him on the DL, Todd blew a couple saves this year, but he never did that. At least he never let them walk in the runs. And your right there is no one to close here. The whole pitching staff is unreliable with the exception of Seay and Galarraga. And I mean everybody.
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I don’t know if you can hang this on JL, he didn’t hit the batters or walk in the runners after getting ahead of all of them. He didn’t strand men on bases. That is the players.
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And I really need to explain myself further when a I say a huge need for pitching. I didn’t see a need for starters. Pen help maybe a bit but nothing huge. Again, I thought that Rodney may be okay, Bobby Seay good again, Miner, I am a lone Todd Jones supporter I know, but to me he succeeds as much or as little as most good relievers,( even if he doesn’t get it done via the strikeout)
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When Zumaya got hurt I thought that they needed to replace him with a top reliever, but they didn’t. But to me nothing was way out of wack.
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Again just my opinion, right or wrong

When I went to look at Kyle Farnsworth’s stats for this year, one little item somehow escaped my attention: homeruns allowed. Counting today, he’s given up 13 homers in 47.1 innings. That’s one every 3.62 innings. To put this into perspective, Bert Blyleven gave up a record 50 homers in 271 innings, 1986. Jose Lima 48 in 196 innings, 2000. If Farnsworth was a starter pitching 196 innings, he’d give up 54. If he matched Blyleven’s 271 innings, he’d give up……….wait for it…………75 homers. Nice to see he doesn’t walk people anymore.
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The Yankees must be laughing their collective ***** off.
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Was anyone surprised at Rodney’s performance today? I was not. The biggest question was whether he’d a) walk in the winning run, b) wild pitch in the winning run, or c) kill a hitter with a pitched ball. I’ve harped on this for FOUR years now. Why is he still on this team? Probably can’t even trade him for value now, the word is out. He’ll end up being released in the end. Dombrowski has made a few shrewd moves but overall, he’s managed this club into the ground. As far as a bullpen goes, we have zilch. This should have been addressed at least two years ago.
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And I can’t resist this. Todd Jones doesn’t look so bad now, does he?
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And Leyland, you’re not off the hook. Was anyone warming up to spell Rodney in the 10th?
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All of you who think there’s “a lot of baseball left” and that we’re still in this race, join us………..come over to the dark side…………be one with us………………
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–Rich

Well, my response would be that Todd Jones gets hit HARD nearly everytime on the mound, regardless of the outcome. Jones has acknowledged that but then says,” I still get the job done.” Personally, I like Jones a lot. Great character guy, funny, good in the clubhouse, does a nice job for TSB, BUT, NO CLOSER should have an ERA of 5.00 and to me, that ain’t “getting the job done.” And, his could be higher had he not gotten a bunch of breaks. But, its probably better stated that the players behind him should have to play on their heels when the closer is on the mound.

Just him strolling out to the mound from the pen, perks up the other team!!

“And Leyland, you’re not off the hook. Was anyone warming up to spell Rodney in the 10th?”

I’m sorry, was he supposed to? How many managers do you see warming the bullpen up when their closers have the bases loaded? We can’t afford to have that sort of knee-jerk reactionary as a manager- he’s supposed to have trust in his players to get the job done. No one on the team would take their jobs seriously f he kept pulling players out every game at the mere whiff of a bad outing on the horizon. Closers are expected to pitch out of jams, wouldn’t you agree?

OMG, my head is still spinning. All I can say is JL needs to take his pack of cigarettes and leave Detroit….for good. He may have been an effective manager at one time, but has made nothing but poor decisions this year.

Why Bobby was not put back in for another inning was further proof that JL is beyond senile.

I too, don’t put all the blame on Sheff, when your name is on the lineup card you play. We have to remember, he is chasing a home run milestone in his career.

It was nice to see CWS get knocked out of first place, maybe that will rattle them some.
Hey Tigers, cream the White Sox and make me a believer again.

No Rich I was not shocked to see Rodney blow it. He had a couple of nice innings when he came back but overall I have not seen anything close to resembling the Rodney of ’06. Like the rest of the staff (Galarraga and Seay excluded) Unreliable.

No Rich I was not shocked to see Rodney blow it. He had a couple of nice innings when he came back but overall I have not seen anything close to resembling the Rodney of ’06. Like the rest of the staff (Galarraga and Seay excluded) Unreliable. Shocked no disheartened yet again YES.

Maraxuska, I do not agree. What you described is exactly the kind of no-brainer thinking that gets managers in trouble. “He’s my closer, so he finishes the game.” Where is that written in stone? On top of it, this is not a normal closer situation we have here. It’s, in effect, closer tryouts taking place. It was painfully obvious to anyone that Rodney was struggling like few pitchers do. I would at least give a thought to having Fossum heating up for when the LH hitters rolled around again. I believe Maddon was out of position players by then, so he couldn’t PH. Fossum would have been ready for Pena at the least. You can’t just stand in the dugout and watch everything fall apart. We have to do that at home, but at least we’re not on the payroll.
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I didn’t intend to turn this into another indictment of Leyland. I think his GM has let him down terribly.
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–Rich

I am not surprised that Rodney blew another game that is the one thing his is very good at! I am not surprised that
Farnsworth gave up three runs, he wasn’t very reliable when he pitched for Detroit a few years ago. I agree that Leyland is not effective this year and would not be surprised if he is not here next year. I am surprised that DD traded Pudge for Farnsworth, makes me think he has thrown in the towel for this year.

My fellow Bloggers. This is going to be my last post for a while. My wife maa statement about me today, and in reality it’s too true. She said, The Tigers have become your “god”. “your whole personality changes when they win or lose. Regrettably my friends, she is correct. I made an excuse today not to be in God’s House, where I find myself 95% of all Sundays. Yet I go out of my way to watch or listen or follow on the computer my team. Honestly, it was better in the old radio days. Bit I must admit that I have become a little obsessed with this team, and I must get my priorities back in order. My final comments about the game itself or nothing new. But I believe that this game today might have been the dagger; there have been so many of them in the past few weeks. I just don’t think they will show up in Chicago. I mean, Nate leads us out on the heels of a 4game losing streak. Bet Hawk will have fun with that. Rich, keep your level headed comments about our beloved team flowing, and Tiger Gal, stay positive for both you and me. I’m going to try and rediscover what life is all about. With nothing but the utmost respect for all of you.
Greg Sturgill
A Chilld of the King who almost forgot that

Well, I have to admit I agree with mitchandtrenna quite a bit. I think Leland is the one who really needs to go. He might be a better manager in the NL. Rodney is just not a closer. That was clear to me since day 1. He’s OK for the 7th and 8th innings sometimes but can’t handle the pressure of having to be a closer. Sure the Tigers have made some mistakes, but they have some great players and Jim just is not managing this team like they need to be managed. Also, I wouldn’t consider gettinig rid of Maggs. He’s still one of the best hitters in MLB and draws fans to the park. We need a few veterans but right now, we’ve got too many. Bringing up the young guys is a good thing. Sometimes they turn out good and can stay and others just sort of fade after a while. Leland got rid of Pena for Shelton? OMG. Leland used to be a scout, so what does that tell ya. I’ve watched the Tigers for 50 years and there is no way, with a good manager, and the quality of players we have that the Tigers should find themselves in this position.

David, props to you my brother! I go to Gods house and too many times over the years go “off” on the Tigers for this thing or that thing.

Nothing else really matters a whole lot…

Gotta a good wife, like mine, who say’s the same things..

Are you hearing any of this Jason Beck? Do you read all these comments? Can you pass these feelings along to the Tiger front office? Most of us here would appreciate knowing we are listened to by seeing some kind of changes made that would give us hope for a better day, even if it means giving the Toledo “kids” a chance to see what they can do. AMen.

It’s not Jason’s job to pass on the feelings of the commenters on this blog to anyone, nor is it his responsibility to. Jason, if ya read this, you are doing a terrific job and I thank you again for holding this forum for all of us, through good times or bad!
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Anyway, I think we’ll all agree that something needs to change on this team, and at least most of us would be ok with them blowing this team up a bit this offseason, especially the pitching. I’m still shaking my head really hard at the extensions they handed out to Nate and D-Train. Why??? Sure, they were deals in par with the market, but we needed UPGRADES, not to stay the same!
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Disheartened to see how we have fared against the AL… I silently thought that we got back into it because we were playing the NL. I was hoping I was wrong, but it seems to be the case that interleague was the reason we catapulted us back to third place.
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This is feeling too much like the end of 2005… I’m just waiting for the “give-up” feeling to hit completely.

The most immediate problem with this team is pitching. But it as all have said the only problem while there are really good hitters on this team some of the are quite inconsistent. Especially with runners in scoring position. And if it isnt one it is the other. But it is rare that we get good performances out of both on the same day.

“Pitching” is the name of the game! ALWAYS has been….. Hitters rarely win championships. Rarely….

Thats why you don’t give up the caliber of up & comers that they did, almost no matter who the heck you’re getting in return…..

Hey Greg (David Tiger) and Mitch, I am with you too my brothers. Great witness! I too am a Child of the King. That King would be Jesus. There…..I’ve said it. I’m out of the closet. I’ve been on this blog for a long time now and that’s the first time I ever witnessed (claimed Jesus as my Lord and Savior)…….hey I kind of feel like a professional athlete now:-) Sorry if I’ve annoyed or offended anyone…….no I’m not.
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Greg I understand completely where you’re coming from. This computer watching and blogging gets to be as close to an obsession as I want to be. Then when the Tigers are playing badly, it just compounds the obsession. Cause if their winning, you can just walk away contented and go about your family, business, other responsibilities and interests. Not so when the Tigers are losing. It weighs heavily on your mind and you end up spending too much time trying to figure out what’s wrong with a situation you have absolutely no control over. I mean, that’s the bottom line…..we really have no control over this team down to the brand of toilet paper Comerica uses in its restrooms. But we have fun playing like we do.
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The problem with this year is that all this stuff happened over the off season, which raised everyone’s expectations to an unrealistic level, hyped by the sports media as one of the greatest lineups in history, and everybody bought into it.
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So Mr. I, and DD and JL ( who knows to what degree each of the three had to do with it) put together this team that looked great on paper but which failed to address needs. Needs could have been pinpointed and filled without having to make so many wholesale changes, and at such a cost. The payroll mushroomed to the level of NY and Boston. I had this feeling that we were now the fat cats, throwing all this money around. I just didn’t have a good feeling about it. It’s obvious you can’t buy a pennant, which is probably a good thing. If that were always the case then there wouldn’t be much hope for teams like the Tampa Bay Rays. I prefer the old way of developing a team like the 1968 and 1984 Tigers.
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Now we’re left holding the bag with a .500 team in it. There are high salaried players signed to multi year contracts, and a ton of question marks. The good news is, it’s not my money. The bad news is, we all end up paying for this over inflated business. It’s almost like it’s not a game any more.
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Well, I’m going to back off a bit here too Greg. I tend to think more with my heart that my mind anyway, and haven’t had much constructive to say lately. But I just want to add one last thought, and that is that trading Pudge with 2 months to go in the season, after all he did for the franchise, kind of says it all for this season. Yeah, we needed to get something for him while his value was still up there(I’m being synical here), and as DD said, (and I’m paraphrasing) it’s only business Pudge, and you know I’ll be there for your induction into the Hall.
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There is still time, but after today’s game and series, I don’t see how they can recover. There will be changes next year, there has to be. For now, as Rich says, I’m going to try and enjoy the remainder of the season, and try keeping the game in perspective.

Wow fellas, sounds like you’ve lost your focus on what it’s all about. Baseball is the greatest game in the world, and it’s to be enjoyed. Sure you want to win, but it’s not the be all and end all. It’s entertainment, it’s daily, and it’s relatively inexpensive. There’s nothing quite like it. Do we hit and run here, why did he throw to the wrong base, the deke at second, a well placed bunt, even the brushback pitch. Maybe I should quote Ernie Harwell’s poem here. :-)
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Marty, you had the right idea when you attended that minor league game. Gregg, you had what I assume was a good weekend in Baltimore with your son. That’s where it’s at. Forget all this contemporary focus on winning as everything. Baseball is a summertime activity following a long and dark winter. It’s inviting Ernie and Mario and Rod into your home for awhile. I don’t know what I’d do without it.
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I think there is an awful lot of general managing on this blog and not enough of the enjoyment of meeting here and talking about a team that, for most of us, is part of a long distant past in a long distant place. We’re so busy managing the team that we don’t enjoy the games themselves.
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After Maggs hit that big gamewinner in the 2006 playoffs, I had dinner with my family. Today, after one of the worst losses I’ve ever witnessed…………I had dinner with my family. It’s all good.
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–Rich

The only up and comer they screwed up on was Renteria. We didn’t lose all that much with the Cabrera trade. All those guys are on minor league teams and probably will stay that way. Miggy was worth all of them and more. Highly unlikely Willis will pan out, although we can all hope. The killer was losing Jair for Edgar. That was a killer.

Andrew Miller, minor leaguer or not for the time being, is a truckload of talent. He’ll be a great ML player, for lots of years. He’s just young and in my opinion, a better talent than Verlander, straight up. Other teams around the league would say the same thing. In fact, whats his name from the Astros predicted him as being the next Randy Johnson.

If that holds to be true, then simply Miller for Cabrera, would be a big winner for the Marlins in my opinion. The prospects they also gave up weren’ chump change. And, Willis, like I’ve said over and over, hasn’t pitched a good game in over 2 years!!! He is what he is. A very BAD pitcher, and that was a joke for anyone to actually believe he would end up as part of this already bad rotation…

Wow, what a frustrating weekend of baseball. I just couldn’t get on to post at all this weekend but am glad as I am so disheartened with our team. Galaragga pitched lights out yesterday and we got some clutch hits in what should have been a win. Farnsworth gives up 2 homeruns, then Rodney and the debacle of walks, hit batters and a bases loaded walk. Anything but a walk – I’d rather see a walkoff grandslam, at least make them do their job and hit the ball. All I can say is wow, our starting pitching (other than Sunday) has been horrible, our relief has been horrible, and our hitting can be great or can be lousy. I can always give credit to the other team, but so many of our losses seem to be due to us.

I am highly frustrated with our aggressiveness on the basepaths. I know we are a slow team, but when did routine basehits with a runner on 2nd mean automatically stopping at 3rd base? I place a lot of blame on the coaches for constantly holding runners that should be making it home on those hits.

I am losing my positive thoughts, I really can’t stand it anymore. I appreciate the efforts I see on the field and get so annoyed when I see some players jogging when they should be running and not getting to balls they should.

glad we have a day off, I need it!

On a great note, I may get to 2 games this year, not sure on one though. We might have tickets to next Tuesdays game against the Blue Jays, my husband made a request for his work tickets so I am waiting to see, we can have a battle with our 2 teams facing off against each other. And for sure on September 10th we are going to a day game, we “won” four tickets at an auction at a golf outing this past weekend for just $65! We were about an hour south of Toledo and not many Tiger fans there – mainly Indians or Reds, so we didn’t have to bid much, I was willing to pay more than that! The tickets look good, box seats in a section right behind the Tiger dugout, so am hoping we can get there early and maybe I can get close enough to shout out to a few of my boys. As bad as we are, I’ll be yelling and rooting them on as loud as I can.

I will still watch and root and have faith, what else can a true fan do? I’ll also complain and I appreciate this forum to vent on and also gain insight on.

Can we please take our frustrations out on the Sox?

A tiger in the heart of Ohio .. :) .. I am an hour south of Toledo too..

It was a bad loss .. but i feel it can be turned around and it’s not the end of the world.
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I know what pple are saying.. my moods come and go with the game to .. but i try to actively think of happy stuff.
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Some small things .. like JL not being stubborn .. Benching Sheff .. getting a relatively good arm from minors/waiver .. realizing what everyone here knew already, that rodney is a head case and not closer material.
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Small things like this will turn it around.
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We had a good run this for 2 reasons .. We played the NL and we put sheff on the DL. We can’t control the 1st, but we can do the 2nd.
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I am not sure if everyone realizes how bad the Sheff situation is… Picture yourself a part of the team .. the 25 man roster.. and you have a guy starting everyday like sheff, and the organization won’t bench him. If a pitcher performs poorly, his individual stats would be glaringly obvious and we would shelve him .. like Willis. A hitter hides among the other 8 starters and his performance gets masked to an extent. If you were one of the other 8 hitters starting, wouldn’t it bring your morale down … that JL is not benching Sheff .. and he has got so many AB’s .. It’s cancerous to a team.

bhavin, I asked the same question when he came back. It just seems as though he has an awful attitude. What I have always wondered is why a “future hall of famer” like Shef, has never been able to find a team that will keep him more than a few seasons.

Our problems do go way beyond being stuck with Shef as our DH. The pitching is miserable lately! I really don’t believe that Farnsworth is the answer to our problems. He to has come across as having that attitude issue, I may be wrong but my gut gives me that idea! And TigerGirl, it is great to read your posts, us girls are kinda out numbered in these blogs. Let’s all remember we put ourselves through this because we love baseball, and the Tigers. And someday our time to shine will come! GO TIGERS!

I don’t know, Stacey, I think there are at least a half dozen females who post here on a somewhat regular basis. Not that much of a minority, considering many of the male comments come from just a handful of us loudmouths. :-)
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Considering this team is on the edge of a complete meltdown, there are an inordinate number of comments targeting Gary Sheffield, here and everywhere else. This began as soon as he got here and has never really abated, regardless of his performance. It’s one of the mysteries of the Tigers. Sure, his hitting has been garbage this year, but this is a tiny piece of the overall puzzle. He shows up and plays, just like Edgar Renteria does. I really can’t imagine that Ryan Raburn is sitting there thinking he should be starting in place of Gary Sheffield. Think about it. Sheff hit a huge homer yesterday and it went completely unnoticed, as is usually the case when he actually does something good. I’m not defending him or anyone else on this team, but a lot of the blame is being misplaced.
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And I realize I’m just talking into my hat, as far as anyone listening to what I’m saying on this subject.
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How about Nate Robertson being moved to the bullpen? Seems to me that is a subject worth pursuing.
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–Rich

Maybe not a bad idea, though probably wouldn’t go over with Nate(a veteran) too well. He’s only going to see himself as a rotation guy.

Robertson has always baffled me because the guy actually knows how to pitch. He might be the only guy in the rotation other than Rogers who actually moves the ball around, works the larger strike zone. When he’s on…. (and yea that seems to be not so often this year), he hits the spots well and seems to have a better “idea” of how to pitch to certain hitters. Verlander by the way doesn’t, I think, he pitches everyone basically the same, which is where Pudge has always had a weakness.

But Robertson pitches flatten out on him way too many times, just enough to get himself jacked, an inning or 2, during every game. Otherwise, I love Robertson. Just wish he wasn’t prone to the hammer.

I think that Jairs / Gorky trade could go down like the McClain for Colemen, Brinkman and Rodrigues trade of a million years ago. One of the all-time worst. What in the world were they thinking?!!?!?!?!?

Sorry to ramble….

Rich, I think you missed the point. I didn’t say closers HAVE to finish the game. But let me put it this way- let’s say we switched Rodney with Fossum in the middle of that inning and Fossum gives up the game-winning hit/walk/etc. anyway… we’d be on here wondering why Leyland took Rodney out and saying he should’ve stayed in to get out of the jam.
Part of a manager’s job is to trust his players. If Leyland were to take players out of games for hitting/walking batters, striking out twice in a row or committing a couple throwing errors, nobody would take their jobs seriously. No manager, I guarantee you, does it at this level. Yes, all of us could tell Rodney didn’t have it, but every day there are pitchers who just don’t have it and somehow make do and get out of jams with it. Rodney is no different. Didn’t Nate Robertson just pitch six shutout innings not too long ago despite giving up 10 hits? I remember Nationals manager Frank Robinson crying on live television a couple years ago after a game because he subbed his catcher for making errors. He immediately regretted it because of the embarrassment it caused for the catcher! Make personnel decisions in between games if you have to, but you don’t do it during a game at the whiff of someone having an off day. You let them work through it and learn a lesson.

You lost me at “Rodney is no different.” Rodney is very different. I wouldn’t have been wondering why he was replaced since I don’t know why JL brought him in there in the first place, other than he’s the designated closer, which is no reason at all IMO. Comparing pitchers to position players is apples and oranges. Managers pull ineffective pitchers every single day, so why should the closer be any different? Besides, it made sense to have a lefty pitch to the lefty.
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I remember the Frank Robinson incident very well. That was Matt LeCroy, who hadn’t had to catch a game in forever. He’d been DHing and filling in at firstbase for the Twins. Frank had to replace him BECAUSE he was being embarrassed, it was a no-win situation. That was hard on Frank, a man I very much respect. Rodney should have been yanked for the same reason. Is he less embarrassed today?
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I guess I’m saying different situations call for different measures.
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–Rich

I for one am a Todd Jones supporter. It took him almost 3 mths to blow a save and Rodney blew 4 games in a few weeks???? Too many Tiger fans are way too hard on Jonesy. Yes he makes things interesting but he usually gets the job done. He has the most saves of anyone in Tiger history!!!!! Nobody else can step in and do the job he did! Everyone else that has tried to has failed miserably. There’s got to be more Todd Jones supporters out there, right???? All I see on all of these blogs is how terrible he is and I think that’s a little harsh!!!

Ah……. from one HUGE tiger fan to another…… You really need to take those rose-colored glasses off!!

THe # of saves means nothing in this day and age of MLB. Well….ok…. almost nothing.

There isn’t a team in MLB that doesn’t have a better closer on it’s staff. “Closers” with a 5.00 shouldn’t impress ANYone. Like I say, “Todd Jones is more of an opener, than a closer.” He’s the guy, who gives the other team spark, and a chance to come back….

Hope that doesn’t ruffle the old feathers……

Peace

I know, he may not be the “best” closer, but he’s better than Rodney or Farnsworth. Hopefully he’ll get at least one more chance after he comes off the DL. I’m just not ready to give up on him just yet. I just don’t want to be like all of the other Todd Jones bashers!

kvandals – I too am a huge Jones fan and there really are quite a few. I do however know he has lost his steam and his value, although I do think he can get his arm healthy and finish out the year as an asset to the team. He at least makes his opponents earn their way on base most of the time and he is smart as anything and can field his position better than any of our other relievers out there.

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