Zumaya

He left the game with tightness in his right triceps. He's day-to-day.

18 Comments

How bout a look at Oslund, DD?

Ian Ostlund graduated from Turner Ashby HS in 1997. He was picked by the Tigers in the 34th Round in 2001. He is a career minor league journeyman reliever. There were never any good numbers until this year in Toledo. I don’t care about the 59 strikeouts in 40+ innings. He is not major league caliber. If he were, just like Mike Hessman, he would be in the major leagues. In my humble opinion, he is not the solution for left handed help in the Tigers Bull Pen. I respect the opionions of all who post here; so give him a shot. Bobby Seay was a frist round pick, and you see the struggles he has . Maybe Ostlund would fool someone one or two times around. But at least Seay has a major league fastball; Ostlund does not.

Meanwhile, back at the pennant race………..today’s win saved our bacon for the time being. We have an opportunity to gain ground this week while Chicago and Minnesota go at it for four games. Don’t blow the opportunity, guys.
.
Okay, back to general and non-general managing, since that is our usual focus. Even our own man Jason said Marcus was working out of an 0 for 7 slump. Little bit of dry humor there, Jason? You don’t need to answer. ;-) It’s just too easy for JL to find reasons to bench Thames. I don’t see how his homerun rate is an anomaly. It’s only slightly higher than his career homerun rate. And I don’t think he requires defensive help in the late innings. You just stick him in there, accept the 40 homers and be happy.
.
Now for something completely different. Two somethings, actually.
.
I think we should consider trading Zumaya. The return could be fabulous. I suspect he’ll keep getting injured, but maybe other teams don’t know that. Unless they read it here. :-)
.
While I’ve got your heads spinning with that one, how about this: Todd Jones has spent his entire career escaping from jams he created. So……..maybe he’s the guy to bring INTO a jam? I can hear the howls now, unless you’re among those with spinning heads. But think about it. He seems to have a knowledge of how a hitter will react in the big situation, and has used it to his advantage. He could be effective in those spots, especially against the less experienced hitters.
.
Almost forgot. Rodney. I think he’ll give you just as much indigestion as Jones ever did, but I do like changing it up like this. What’s the harm? I will say I’m not happy with those two calls he didn’t get on Dye. I thought he had him struck out twice. I wish these umpires would just call the pitch, regardless of reputation.
.
I’m glad we’re not totally blown out of the race yet.
.
–Rich

I did not read any of the comments yet but I wanted to post because I forgot to mention that the wife of Carlos Guillen is in our prayers (Carlos is my wife’s Tiger). We just got home from a convertible ride to the Coast Guard festival in Grand Haven. Ah, summer time on Lake Michigan. We left after Granderson (my Tiger) hit a home run. I am glad to see the Tigers won and now we are off to a Texas Hold Em tournament. So, let’s start another winning streak and have a better 2nd half record than the “gulp” Yankees. Go Tigers!!! Dave–

I have a comment/question regarding Thames. Why would management consider trading a guy to a contending team looking for a power DH/PH? Aren’t we also in a pennant race? And why would another team, contender or not, be willing to trade away a quality pitcher for a pure power hitter. I’m not putting down Marcus at all. I’m just saying that any team in today’s baseball would be stupid to trade away a quality pitcher for just about any player maybe with a handful of exceptions. Wait a minute, we did that didn’t we? Never mind.
.
After Marcus hit his home run today I blogged “Oh my goodness”…..what I meant to say was “Oh my Guinness” That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.
.
Bruce, I agree with your comments on Marcus’ defensive abilities, and to take the thought to its logical conclusion, JL should start inserting Marcus as a late inning defensive replacement on days he doesn’t start. Good observations/comments on your part. In fact if management truly wanted to use Marcus as trade bait, you would think they’d want to showcase his defensive skills as well as his power.

I guess we don’t need to spend too much time comiserating over Marcus’ defense, but while I do agree about it not being as onerous as JL likes to portray it, I do feel we have better defenders on the bench.
.
I do agree tht Marcus is a better Lf than Ordonez is at RF.
.
I also acknowledge JL is (almost) never going to take out Ordonez for defensive purposes..
.
I think Joyce is going to get to more balls than Mrcus and I think he is less likely to clank one than marcus. Marcus puts forth great effort and has made some very interesting if not great catches.
.
I actually would prefer to see Raburn in LF defensively and Joyce in RF, but it ain’t up to me. My point is tat a defensive replacement for marcus is understandable but to yank him in the 6th or 7th is not understandable. He does not embarrass us or himself out there he dust does not have exceptional mobility or arm strength.
.
If Ordonez stays (and I am sure he will) I would like to see us trade Marcus which would benefit both he and us at this point. I like him but as long as this team has ordonez, Granderson and the Toledo Trio, he is going to struggle for playing time. I’d like to see Marcus play in texas or Colorado and hit 50 HRs. He could probably do it.
.

Were we posting at the same time Dan or are you that quick at responding? Two minutes later you have covered my comment. I was being a little tongue in cheek but at the same time, there is truth in how Marcus is handled. His defensive play is good enough to warrant him remaining in the game for at least 8 innings and another AB. That’s all I was saying. You’ll never see Ordonez taken out after 6, with only 3 ABs. Double standard. Regarding trading him, who would you be realistically asking for him? Someone for this year or for the future? His real value right now is with this team. But you are right, with the 3 young OFers coming up, he is still the odd man out for the future.

I don’t think that Thames is currently a trade bait. Long term, we do have a jam in the outfield(good). Not sure if Maggs will stay. I hope he does. He has been a good addition. But DD might find him dispensable once Cabby comes along. Guillen is probably the most underrated on our team, since everyone already values Polly.
.
Maggs is a defensive liability, but he is the undisputed cleanup/No. 1 hitter on the team. So he won’t be replaced in late innings. Some pple might not like his numbers, and my guess is DD prefers to get proven hitters from outside the organization. Can’t blame him or Mr. I – 1 name “Bobby Higginson” or for that matter Damion Easley… It”s better to pay for a proven talent.
.
Having said that, I am sure DD knows that we need pitching. Problem is, its too tough to get some good help.
.
We all know that JL is being unfair to Thames. I am beginning to suspect that a previous theory put forth by someone might be right. Since JL’s brother got the better of JL, he is just trying to prove him wrong.
.
Which manager in his right mind plays Sheff more than Thames or Joyce… as of right now.
.
Rich .. I was thinking (hoping ) too that they trade Zumaya. We might not get much anymore, but something is better than nothing. He is fun to watch, but he can’t seem to stay healthy. He is overthrowing, and hasn’t grown up yet. If not now, will he ever ?
.
JL misses a lot of signs that make it obvious when a pitcher is done … he doesn’t act fast enough. And then hooks JV in the 9th with a 6 ? run cushion. I agree with Dan and/or Rich. that this should be JL’s last year as a Tiger hopefully.

Davidtiger,Bobby Seay is an innings eater.He is good.Lifetime 3.70 ERA attests to that.He is a miracle man at holding runners. 3 SB lifetime against him while 5 have been caught. He has picked 3 more off.Impressive #`s to say the least.But,he is not getting lefty`s out this season.His OBA is .331,He has 121 K`s in 151 INN lifetime.Not the K guy I`m looking for with Mauer and Morneau comig up with men on base late innings.The very reason you want to keep Oslund in Tol. is the same reason I want to look at him.Why does a guy strikeout 60 hitters in 40+ innings for the first time in his career?Perhaps he has gotten better.Perhaps he is lucky.Either way if he cant strikeout 1 and a half leftys per inning,I dont want him either.I`m looking for K`s against good hitting lefty`s with men on base.Presently I would use Rodney or Zumaya in that role,Not Seay or Fossum.Why not look at him?……..OK Rich I`ll guess I`ll be the 1st to howl….Trade Zu and we have 1 less power righty than the 2 we have.With the exception of Verlander I`d trade the entire starting rotation before Zu…….Now TJ, thats tricky.You already got me on the ol school JL thing, so I`ll tread cautiously. TJ has an ERA around 5.He has a WHIP around 1.60.He has an OBA around .370,Did I mention he has 13 K`s in around 30 something innings.All of which could arouse skepticism for bringing him in with runners on base….Marcus is an anomaly amonst AL HR hitters in that he currently is the only one with a top ten ranking with 200 AB`s.(I think he is tied for 6 or 7th)His HR per at bat is by far best in the league.Reading Marty`s post is like reading my mind.Every game Marcus sits I ask the exact same questions myself(were in a pennant race,we have the best HR hitter in the league,why is he on the bench?)For what logical,reasonable purpose is he sitting on the bench.I wont buy into the defensive liability act.I`ve seen far too many worse left fielders,and (Joyce is one of them., he looks far better ranging to his backhand than glovehand,AKA right fielder,not left,does`nt know where to position himself for hitters or pitching schemes either)Anyway,I got this idea that maybe Tiger Management likes all the sports shows talking about how amazing that a guy with 200 AB`s has 20 HR`s.Could be real alluring to a team making a run down the stretch,Maybe we could get the next Smoltz or Juigens(from some other club) Then,I thought maybe management knows a weakness for shutting down Marcus completely and does`nt want it exposed.Or maybe they dont play him as much and that creates twice the amount of speculation among perspective buyers.And since the trade deadline is near,dont take any chances on him going into a slump right now,for that would decrease his valueBut,like Marty,I`m just looking for a reasonable explanation for benching him.All these things I am thinking about Marcus are simply musings or speculations.I honestly cant figure it out and am stretched quite thin,but cant help myself from wondering

Hey Bruce, just thought you’d like to know that our Tigers are statistically tied with the Sox with a .981 fpct. I’m telling ya, you gotta have pitchers who can keep you in a game, like Miner did today, to give your offense a chance. Besides, Renteria and Guillen have nothing to do with the inordinate amount of walks our guys surrender or the fact that they have 180 less K’s than the Sox. It’s pitching, pitching, pitching, that keeps you in games and gives you chance.

–Ed–

Ed, you raise a valid point!I`m a huge pitching and defense fan.I dont always equate defense,though with fielding percentage aloneLet me explaine.180 K`s represent 180 more balls hit to our fielder/or outs.We have pretty much all contact pitchers,,exception JV,in our starting rotation.Chicago`s infielders get too many balls that our infielders cannot get.Polly is excellant.I continuously hear what a great job CG is doing. I see a different game than most.I watch him cheat the line on righties,thereby increasing the hole between him and short.I watch him cheat the middle on leftys thereby widening the gap between him and the line.I`ve seen him make some great backhands on the line.Then I look at all the posts rave at his exceptional turn around in the field.I also notice that he is 3 feet closer to the bag than Inge will play the same batter.Then I watch a righty put one between him and short,the announcer says there is another seeing eye hit.And,to myself I say he is playing to close to the line,and I think Inge gets that ball.I dont see anyone posting about his positioning or laqck of range from any of the posters that are convinced he is the real deal.I have always loved Edgar as a shortstop,but he has dissappointed me earlier in the year on balls going up the middle.2 trends of thought here also.1 I think he may have been playing injured for longer than any of us may know.2 Wonder how often he cheats towards 3rd to cover the hole cause Carlos is cheating the same way,leaving a bigger hole up the middle.These types of things are taking place regularly on right handed batters.I`ve heard posters complain that Verlander strikes out too many batters and raises his pitch count and scratch my head.I love power pitching because you dont have to rely so heavily on fielders.But our team is built around contact pitchers and leftys in the starting rotation.I dont know how many times I`ve said,but if you have leftys and contact pitchers,you must field your best infielders on the left side of the infield.Its very, very simple and logical.If you want sluggers over there then go with big strikeout pitchers.We dont have big strikeout pitchers.That means more balls in play.And stop teaching the rules of contact pitching and start playing power hardball.In other words don`t set up your defense with other than your best fielders if you are preaching contact pitching(like the Tigers do)You are only working against yourself when you do.If contact pitchers are missing there spots in the strikezone they get clobbered.When they miss there spots outside the strikezone they walk batters.Rodney started throwing his fastball and cut way back on his changeup.That makes him a power pitcher now that he is using the fastball as a primary pitch.He struck out 3 batters in the 9th,All three went to 3-2.At least 2 of the 3 strikeouts were on ball 4.But with his heater he`ll get people out like that because the reaction time is so minimal.He had control problems with the heat tonight,but gave up abloop hit other than walks.If a contact pitcher has the same problem balls are gonna be flying all over once he gets behind in the count,cause he has to come in and reaction time is not as critical with a 90 mph fastball.But contact pitchers require good fielders behind them.I did`nt invent the rules of quantum physics,but they apply very much so in defensive baseball.I think perhaps th RF or range factor stat is a useless stat because it does not factor in what type pitcher,hard or soft throwing,left or right,mostly left handed hitters or mostly right handed hitters.RF cannot be accurately judged unless all these factors are taken into consideration.Its useless to me .But,I try to take all those above mentioned circumstances into consideration before I make any evaluation of any player and the position he is at.Before we had all these stats I used to study players by the same standards,so I would best know how to beat them,and help my team win.Its a lost art pretty much these days.Baseball has been reduced to hit it, catch it, throw it,with less emphasis on how to turn the odds in your favor.I apologize for the length of this post,but I`m trying to get you to see what I see,and to understand what I`m trying to convey….Lucky I`m not doing batting orders.Thats 3 times the length of this.

Oh Zumaya, he just can’t stay healthy can he? It will be interesting to see how Rodney does as a closer. I am pulling for him, but he still doesn’t strike me as a fiery individual who seems to thrive for those last few outs. Regardless, I knew the day would come when Jones wouldn’t be our closer, was hoping for sentimental purposes it wouldn’t be until after this season, but he wasn’t doing the job recently so that’s that. I wish Leyland would do the same for Sheff. Sure Sheff has his moments, like Jones, but why isn’t Leyland doing the same for the other players that don’t produce?

I missed Friday’s game, am glad after I heard about the result. Was disappointed in Saturday’s game – last 3 innings had RISP and didn’t get any in. Carlos – you are my Tiger but that strikeout was rough to take. I guess I am glad we didn’t get swept and can hope we pound the Indians to oblivion and start making up ground again.

Go Tigers!

I really enjoyed that post Bruce. Very technical and convincing. You’re analytical thinking goes well beyond mine. I was going to answer Ed with basically the same idea. It distills down to range. Range doesn’t show up anywhere in stats or percentages. It only shows up in your minds eye while watching a game. The only way you could measure it would be if you could hit the exact same balls to two players you were testing and then see how both reacted. You would have to do this over a number of different types of hits to get good data. But the fact is, you can still see it watching these games day after day. It’s a pretty objective observation too.
Interesting thoughts on watching Carlos(or anyone for that matter) cheat one way or the other, thus leaving himself more vulnerable to the other side. Just a funny anecdote, regardless of the position I was playing, I’d sometimes cheat far to one side or the other, daring the batter to hit the vacated hole, and then my first move would be that way…..it worked once in a while:-)
.
Regarding your comment about power pitchers and fielding, so Carlos could start at 3rd when JV was pitching. (if you were playing the percentages)

Regarding Zumaya, if it isn’t one thing its another. I swear. Hopefully it isn’t anything too serious.
.
Regarding Fernando, to me his 3 strikeouts in the 9th were really not the hole picture of his outing. I was at the game and didn’t realize how fortunate he was to get those strikeouts as those pitches were even more wild than they appeared live. Didn’t get the true picture of those at bats till I watched them later on tv. He threw way way too many pitches and his control was not good. Frankly I was just as anxious during his outing than I am during Jones. This could be interesting. For certian today if there is a save situation it will be Todd Jones as Rodney is going to be useless today, Maybe tomorrow???
.
Now Justin Verlander, I think that someone forgot to give him his ritalin on Saturday. And I am not sure who said it but Justin is not at his best when he is trying to strike everyone out. All they do is foul everything off and it drives up his pitchcount. Not that there isn’t a place for a strikeout but, lets pick our spots. He drives me nuts.

Marty,Odds are that there will be less ground balls to 3rd regardless of who is playing there on the day JV pitches.But watch out for the bunt.A lot of managers will stack leftys against a hard thrower like JV,And guys with speed from the left side are likely to lay one down that way,especially if they cant catch up to the fastball.Guys like Mauer look for the outside pitch to drive the other way down the left field line.Its up to Pudge and Justin to prevent that,but certain fellas you got to watch for it……………GK,Trying to pitch to contact is probally the largest contributing factor of JV starting out at 2-8.When he started throwing his fastball with regularity is when he once again became effective.Pitch counts might look good on paper or in fantasy baseball,but on the field it means very little.As far as I`m concerned you never,never give into the batter.If you are convinced that you cant get him,My advice is to hit the batter.The 1st 2 foul balls are strikes,any more after that is a draw.Hit 10 fouls in a row,I`m still not going to lay a fat one for him to hit.Every pitcher has a different stamina and tires at different points in the game.100 pitch limits again good on paper or fantasy baseball.Means nothing to me on the field.If you`re catcher cant tell that he is losing steam on the fastball,or movement,or he is begginning to let ride up in the strikezone(power pitchers) or bounce them to home plate(finesse pitchers) then its time for a better catcher.I might want JV out at 89 pitches if the top of the order is up.I might want him in there at 110 pitches if the bottom of the order is up.Depends on his stuff that day,how close the game is,which relievers are strong ,what hitters are coming up next.Lots of variables to consider.Personally I think it makes more sense to count how many times a batter faces you in a particular game rather than how many pitches you have thrown.But,again I would never give in to the hitter to stop him from hitting foul balls.

It will be a difficult time for the team in the next little while.
.
Todd Jones was a fixture on the team and in a sense, becasue of his tenure, his role and his age, was a paternal symbol of stability.
.
This move not only rocked TJ’s world, it has rocked his teamates’ world as well. Many people will consider it a stupid move and many others will at least consider it a sad one, to make. I consider it a neccessary one. It is sad to see this happen but baseball, as they say is a business. It is also an obligation of management to give their fans the best chance to maintain hope for their team. Baseball has always been taken very seriously in Detroit and at least this move shows us that management has not forgotten that fact. I am encouraged that they had the courage to make this move. I was very worried that they were too willing to bury their heads in the sand and indulge in the denial game.
.
This move may shake the foundation of the team. It needs it. There are situations still current that demand correction. Nate Robertson needs to look at this development and realize he needs to show some constency. Sheffield has to think if he is next in line. That being a 40 yr. old vet does not give you entitlement. He is struggling to the point that he has lost touch with team play and is pursuing an individual battle with every AB. Part of that is the nature of a DH, but it was one of the ways that he was able to be unique among power hitting DHs.
.
Renteria’s recent play has probably bought him enough time to show that he can turn things around. I don’t think it will impress enough to sign him for another year, but he just might help this club yet this year.
.
With Zumaya going down, who knows what happens next but I expect the Tigers will try to pick up a reliever before Thursday.
.
You can say that Rodney is your closer but those would be words that need to be spun. You would really be “hoping” that he can do the job. If he could throw his fastball at the knees, then yes, he could close. From what I’ve seen, he has a heap of trouble getting the fastball where he wants it to go.
.
They can’t dip down to Toledo to pick up a late inning guy as Neal is comitted to the Olympics. Oslund and Rapada are not closers. Cruceta is down there and throwing well enough, but bringing him back would be experimental.
.
I’m hoping for the best here and I am glad that management has done “something”, because it means that maybe they will do “more”.

Let’s first have a word for what’s gone right.
.
Zach Miner again pitched an excellent game. I’ve had confidence that he could do this as a starter for quite some time. All of his stuff is better in that role. If Zach can keep that up, and I think he can, it helps solve one of the team’s biggest current problems. I don’t want to get into next year at this time, but you see what could be the beginnings of a rotation. Jury still out, but hopeful.
.
Pudge has been on fire at the plate. I don’t what drives him but whatever it is, it’s working right now.
.
Renteria drew a walk or two in KC, which is a sign that a hitter is seeing the ball better. He actually hit well over the weekend, after those bloop hits in KC. Sometimes that’s all it takes to get going. We sure could use it, since he’s not going away.
.
Jones knows the score better than anyone. He’s not happy about it and hell, I wouldn’t be either. Getting old ain’t all that fun. But he’s still going to be called upon to get some big outs for us this year. He also knows that.
.
I think the back end of the bullpen is entirely up in the air right now. It’s Rodney for now. Hard to judge him on yesterday’s performance because it got all out of whack when he had to come in unexpectedly for Zumaya. Not a closer in the world would care for that. Fernando will have fits of wildness, but when you’re throwing upper 90s with an excellent changeup that you can control, that’s tough on hitters. Not surprised that some of them went out of the zone. This is one advantage that Rodney has over Zumaya, the secondary pitch. So, while I don’t like his wildness and think we will continue with too much excitement in the 9th, if he’s able to keep pouring on the gas, this may work. At least until JL changes his mind again.
.
I’m just afraid we’ll continue to be put into tight spots because of injuries to Zumaya. That keeps the bullpen on shaky ground at all times.
.
Bruce, I liked the part about infielder positioning. I wish we had a choice on TV of which viewing angle we got. Hard to tell what’s going on when all we see is the behind the pitcher shot.
.
–Rich

Hey everyone, I just have a few things to say. Once again, I love to read what you all have to say. It helps me vent (after a tough loss) just by reading your posts. Thanks. I also was at the game yesterday, totally last minute thing. It was an all out well played game. After the game I was thinking about the whole Rodney closing thing, and how there are many more roller coaster 9th innnings in store for us. But then my sister and I took a ride to Tiger Stadium and it was all put into perspective. I only get to go to games about once a year (I live an hour and a half from Detroit). I have loved the Tigers since I was 5 yrs old, not nearly as long as some of you ( I was 5 in ’83). Anyway seeing the old Stadium made me realize that there are many ups and downs, but we will always be fans. I know I probably sound corny but I found a new appreciation for the game of baseball yesterday. I remembered that when I was 7 yrs. old it really didn’t matter if they won or lost, I was watching the Tigers! I realized how much I am going to miss the old park (even though I think Comerica is great). So anyway, tonight when I watch them play Cleveland, I’m going to try to just appreciate the fact that I am watching the Tigers! GO TIGERS!

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

Follow

Get every new post delivered to your Inbox.

Join 23,998 other followers