Dolsi feeling better

Freddy Dolsi played catch on Thursday with head athletic trainer Kevin Rand and threw a side session this afternoon and says he feels fine. Asked whether Dolsi is available tonight, manager Jim Leyland said, “I would hope so.”

That gives the Tigers a full bullpen going into tonight’s game, and with Verlander going tomorrow.

The lineup is pretty standard tonight. We’ll see if the Tigers can hit Gavin Floyd this time around. Josh Fields will be playing third this weekend for the White Sox in place of Joe Crede, who was placed on the DL today.

TIGERS (52-49)

  1. Granderson, CF
  2. Polanco, 2B
  3. Guillen, 3B
  4. Ordonez, RF
  5. Cabrera, 1B
  6. Joyce, LF
  7. Sheffield, DH
  8. Rodriguez, C
  9. Renteria, SS

WHITE SOX (57-43)

  1. Orlando Cabrera, SS
  2. A.J. Pierzynski, C
  3. Carlos Quentin, LF
  4. Jermaine Dye, RF
  5. Jim Thome, DH
  6. Paul Konerko, 1B
  7. Nick Swisher, CF
  8. Josh Fields, 3B
  9. Alexei Ramirez, 2B

91 Comments

No Thames and no Inge. Hmmm. We’ll see how Sheffield does tonight. Not enough at bats for any of these guys against Floyd to see if there’s any edge. Guess JL is playing the odds putting the left handed Joyce instead of Marcus. I still would rather see Brandon at third than Carlos.

No Crede is a plus but Nate has kind of owned him in the past. This will be fun.

Look at the stats, I noticed that the guy on our team that hits Floyd the best is Ryan Raburn. I thought for sure he would be playing him???

No Crede? Oh no. I just love the way Joe keeps hitting those dingers at Comerica. Not.
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I wonder if it’s not better to be in a tight game with Nate pitching. He’s become quite an enigma.
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I’m not surprised that JL has opened with the lineup that’s been winning. I expect changes over the weekend, though. Thames has damaged the Sox over the years.
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In a way, it’s more fun to come in as the underdog.
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–Rich

Thames has completely dissappeared lately.. i don’t like that.
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Has Rayburn played any short?

Chad, not int MLB he hasn’t

well.. i dunno why the tigers keep playing renteria. i’d trade him to the dodgers for joe torre’s dead grandma at this point.
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Geez, Sheffield has not been running the bases with ‘wisdom” lately. He looke awfully bad on that steal??. It was a few games ago in KC that he booked for home on a ground ball to 3rd too that was text book mistake material.
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My other non-favorite, Renteria, looked as awful in his AB.

Lead-off walks. Let’s return the favour.

BTW—Rod Allen mentioned something last time Polanco was up that I have wondered about for a long time.
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Why not simply run Curtis? He can steal a base then Polanco can move him ove to 3rd. It is a waste of an AB to hit & run if you don’t have to.

Crap! CG pops up and i am afraid that big RBI guy Ordonez will end the inning with a DP…….again.

Smart—super smart play by Polanco

Nice clutch hitting by Maggs there. And by Cabrera as I’m typing this.
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Agree on the baserunning by Sheffield, he showed good hustle beating out the throw for the hit then completely disregarded it by taking off before Floyd even moved.

Ok, chance for Sheffield to redeem himself here.

Sheffileld needs to show us all something right now!

He’s off balance, hitting those balls foul by 8 sections again. If he stays within himself he’ll be ok.

Ok, Nate better be counting his lucky stars, that’s the second DP ball that’s been muffed and allowed a run to score.

i just hope with the couple of runs tacked on this inning, that robertson can hold the lead and not give up a monster 4th or 5th for the sox

Answer to aflack:

Alan Trammel

Got a break on Sheff’s tailor made DP. Too bad Pudge hit it right at Cabrera–this guy flips the ball away on a DP just about better than anybody I have ever seen.

Sharp play there by Polanco, by watching the replay why was Renteria so far behind the bag?

That is a heckuva play by Polanco. This guy continues to be the steal of the century for Detroit. Who did we trade for him? Ugbeth Urbina (sic) or some name like that?
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Hey, let’s start a pool with Renteria. When will he get another extra base hit?

Leyland is determined that his old ex World Series mates are gonna come thru for him because he “loves them, loves them a lot”.

Yeah, it was Ugueth Urbina, who is now in Venezuelan (I think) prison for trying to murder someone there with a machede.
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Dan, I thought that may have been the one for Renteria, hit it on the screws but Quentin stumbled into it.

I’ve got news for JL. Rent & Sheff can’t do much better than tread water for him. Inge and Thames sit while these guys burn.

Oh my, I was getting real nervous there but luckily Quentin popped that one up with the based full.

Nate got away with a little more that inning. Thank You Carlos Quentin for being a little too aggressive.
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Couple of questionable calls by the home plate ump on A.J. to make things a bit too interesting.

Cleveland leads Minn. 5-1 bottom of 6th….The umpire has a super tight zone on Nate tonight.I thought thaat there was 2 bad calls on Thome alone.

That’s a bit discouraging. Joyce had a 3-1 pitdh and swang at ball 4. That changed everything and then we ended up with nothing.
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Let’s see what Nate has to show us this inning. It may forecast what we can expect the rest of the way. if he can get them great because thes Sox know how to win agame coming from behind. They have been doing it all year.

Small ball with Maggs and Cab on the bases?

I have been very disapointed in Nate this year. But he has pitched well tonight and had a pretty darn good 6th inning. The ump (C.B Buckner) was brutal on the lower part of the strike zone that inning. Nate pitched Thome welll and actually had Swisher struck out (foul ball HR notwithstanding).
But my advice to JL is that Nate is on borrowed tiem and needs to come out. I thin JL will be steadfast in his fixation on getting 7 out of your starter when you have a lead. I hope he is right.

There’s your extra base hit for Renteria Dan, although it may have been a bit misplayed by Dye.

As I figured. JL waited too long and now we have to hope tha Zoom can throw strikes. If he comes out with a control issue we have major difficulty ahead.

IMHO nate shouldn’t pitch one inning more than the 6th even if the tigers have a 200 run lead.

Edgar has hit the ball hard twice tonight.Hopefully that is a good sign of things to come.

I am so tired of JL missing the obvious and being the victim of his own obstnacy.
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Nate was D-O-N-E after 6. Whey put him out there? You got way more than we could have reasonably expected out of him after his last 2 starts.
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Now the super bad play by pudge and we have thrown away what should have benn a workabl elead.
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CHALK THIS ONE UP TO JIM LEYALND!!!!

Bruce,
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Where did you check the inherited runner scored last time. Zumaya has a low ERA, but i want to check that one.

Passed ball and error on the catcher on the same pitch,and Matt juggled the ball in left.Guess we need to start bringing Marcus in in the 7th for defensive replacement…..Dan,sure wish we had Oslund now for Thome and some of the other premier leftys in the league.The lefty reliever situation needs attention as we we try to make a run down the stretch.Need a power lefty sometimes.

I know relievers are not responsible for runners on .. but i think he didn’t pitch that well and got away without an ER.
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Thats misleading in this particular instance.

Bhavin,I think it came off ESPN.com stats

Spooky .. I swear i was expecting a HR from Guillen …

Way to go CG.That was clutch!

Thanks Bruce..

JL nees to be PRE-active. Not reactive or even proactive.
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You know tha t Nate is hittable, you know he has had trouble getting the ball over th plate tonight. You know that he has been horrible. yet you leave him in thinking that he has done this well ….so far. As if that is viable strategy. It was stupid. Simply stupid. He should have thanked his lucky stars that Nate took him through 6 and understand that the White Sox are not your garden variety baseball team.
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I know JL avoids the internet like he avoids common sense but if he reads this–it serves himj right for being so stubborn and wishful. He has hurt this team as much s the hitting has, or the the bullpen.

At least JL was “pre-active” in replacing Zoom with Rodney. Zoom doesn’t “havie it ” tonight.
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The walks are hurting us tonight.The DP`s are saving our butt.

Zumaya’s inherited scored is 3 of 5. That probably is as of yesterday. plus 2 of 2 tonight, makes 5 of 7 scored.
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JL doesn’t check stats either ? :) We needed a groundball pitcher then, didn’t we?

Super Play by Polanco.
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This guy is so solid.
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I hope Sheff & Pudge indulge in a little atonement for thier trangressions tonight.

Defintion of “Pre-Active”:

What Ozzie Guillen has done here in the 8th against the the Tigers.
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Classic

Bhavin,I dont know.I kind of like power pitchers with 2 guys on.But with the hitters we faced in the 7th I would really have preferred a power lefty,then IBB Dye or bring in power righty to go after him.

I think Rodney might have done better with ground balls, than zoom with air balls

TJ seemed scared pitching to Dye ..

Cleveland beat Minn.5-2.Jermaine Dye is a guy you definitly want a power arm against….Dan summed it up correctly a few innings ago.Chalk this one up to JL if it goes down as a Loss.Would`nt mind seeing Marcus once in a while, too.Unbelievable strategy.I think I`ll start calling him Greektown Casino Jim Leyland,because of all the against the odds manuevers he forces on the team.

The problem with this team (Iins spite of all the ridiculous save/save opprotunity stats you can counter with) IS WE DO NOT HAVE A LOCK DOWN CLOSER.
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You cannot take the ChiSox for granted. ever. Jones does his best but as likable a guy as he is–it just will never be good enough to bring this team a championship.
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I’m getting tired of knowing it, seeing it and dealing with it.
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You guys can say what you will but I know I am right about this and it makes me sick to my stomach.. This was a huge game and Todd sucked all the life out of the effort that was put forth tnonight

Pitching and running into to many outs on the basepaths. Poor game all together and lets not even talk about the run that Pudge cost the team. This one doesn’t completely go on Jones although he has some blame of course. They all blew this one in my opinion. TONS OF BLAME TO GO AROUND. There is no way they are beating Danks on Saturday either.

zumaya didn’t do his job and jones is about what we have been getting from him lately he is ****

I don’t understand how you don’t give Marcus a chance in the 9th… you need to extend the game and he was their best option to do it.
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Someone needs to inspect Jenks ballcap.. that thing has an insane amount of junk on it. I don’t know what it is but it shouldn’t be allowed.
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Had a feeling he’d blow it falling behind 2-0 to dye..
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This loss is a kick in the stomach.. coming in i would have guessed it would have been a loss so it was even bigger that they had 2 huge chances to win this game.. pudge’s error was inexcusable and jones is inexcusable himself.
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Jones should do us a favor and walk away.

Jones and JL and Sheffield need to start palying Bingo or something. Because what they are doing on the baseball field is embarassing..
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This was a game that will demarcate the rest of the season. I disagree with all the positive talk about winning 2 out of 3 or 1 out of three or getting swept. Or that losihng this series is not the end of the world. Ok, I do agree it is not the end of the world but it is very likely the end of the season for the Tigers. This was a challenge that was not met and an indication that the present club is not up to the task.
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Todd Jones will break your heart—–every year.

Dan,There was a lot of bad manuevering on JL`s part tonight.Small ball with Maggs and Cab on base.The failure to have a power lefty in the 7th.The unwillingness of JL to let Rodney throw the 9th.No power righty in the pen left when Dye came up in the 9th(Dye leads the AL in HR,contact pitching to him wont do)The disappearence of Marcus…And the #1 problem.You cannot have a closer that has a 1.57 whip.Unheard of for a championship contender.

I’m disgusted with JL. He should have known better after getting the gift that fortune gave him for the 6 innings by Robertson tonight..
If he can’t work with that he is not astute enough to take us all the way.

The real stinker in all of this is that other than the homerun ball and a couple of hits by Ramirez not one ball they hit was hit hard. A bunch of freaking bloopers. This really stinks

Sure, Jones makes a poor closer, everyone knows that. But you have to choose his replacement, and we don’t have one. Reality sux. This wasn’t addressed during the offseason. And that’s all I’ll say on Jones.
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It’s Jim Leyland that is killing our chances. He might be a great guy to play for, as the players say, but he couldn’t manage a meat market. You guys hit most of the points. I didn’t want Robertson in the 7th because I didn’t want him facing their lineup a 4th time. That was clear and simple to me. I wanted to go Rodney, Zumaya and Jones, each starting their own inning. The baserunning nonsense with Maggs and Cab was laughable. That worked on a disinterested KC team this week only because Polanco was the lead runner. Why didn’t JL just let that boy hit the sac fly instead of going all Billy Martin on us? Those are the two decisions that bothered me the most. The rest of that stuff, playing aging has-beens to return a perceived favor, obstinancy, ignoring capable players on the team, we’ve gone over time and again.
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Personally, I don’t care for being painted as Mr. Positive here. I’ll let you in on a little secret and let me be clear: I NEVER THOUGHT THIS TEAM WOULD MAKE THE POSTSEASON THIS YEAR. You know where I’ll be during the final week of the season through the first week of the playoffs? Completely out of the country. I set this up in January, right in the middle of the euphoria over this “All-Star” team. Because you see, I looked it all over and came to the conclusion that it wasn’t happening. I just haven’t felt any need to mention it.
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Having said that, I’ll still enjoy the rest of this series and the rest of this season. If that’s being all positive, guilty as charged. I’m just in this for the fun of it, you know. Nobody here is getting paid.
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–Rich

It is what it is. Here’s REALITY!
Angels- “Frankie”
Yankees- Rivera
Sawx- Grey Poupon
Twins – Nathan- I wish he was nuthin’
Good Guys- Let me vomit! – Jenks
My Boys- Junks, er Jones!

It is what it is!

Greg

It’s frustrating to watch Jones give up the hr when a lock down closer like Jenks would get the side out 1-2-3.
It’s the story of the team at times this year, Sheffield, Renteria, Leyland (and the rest) are all to blame when expectations were so high at the start of the season. The Tigers have a pretty good all star team if it was 2002 or 03 and not 2008. The person ultimately responsible for this is Dombrowski, it’s easy to get frustrated with Leyland and the day to day managing and why Inge and Thames are collecting dust, but look beyond that. Thoughts?

I ‘ll say this, there’s always tomorrow.. no heroic come from behind story tonight…It felt great when we gained the lead when Carlos smacked that one..but the thrill was gone when Jermaine jacked that one over the wall for Chicsox to gain the lead… (darn it Jonesy) the walks, hits, are hurting us with Todd J. We are going to be the laughing stock of the league, have all these big hitters, and then give up the game in the last three innings, while other teams lock down our runners from scoring.. or even hitting the ball.
There is plenty of good baseball left. Least the attention is on baseball games, and not one man passing anothers hr record this year or drugs in the locker room stories. Thank you .. on with the show.

I’m still choked and it’s over 3 hours since this very demoralizing loss. It’s hard to shake this one off. Especially when it just shouldn’t have happened if our manager had a lick of sense.
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On another note, the guy most of us feels should be playing and at least dHing in place of Sheffield had an article written by David Dye in the Detroit News about him which pretty much sums up a lot of the things we have said about Marcus:
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“Saturday, July 26, 2008
Dave Dye
Thames on the bench? Senseless
In a game where Tigers needed a big hit, their best power hitter sat and watched his team lose.
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DETROIT — Signature games seem to occur about once a week for the Tigers. They end up speaking eloquently to a team’s strengths and weaknesses and, in Detroit’s case, the latter has been on display way too often in 2008.
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So many blown ballgames. So many donations to those two teams ahead of them, the White Sox and the Twins, both of which are beginning to understand that if you wait long enough on the Tigers, they’ll give you a chance to have the victory party they should have been throwing in their clubhouse.
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On Friday night, it was the same heartbreaking story for 44,493 who jammed Comerica Park and who stood, cheering and shrieking for Tigers closer Todd Jones, who was a strike away from wrapping up what might have been the Tigers’ biggest victory of the year.
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And then the two-strike single to right by Carlos Quentin. And then, almost predictably, the bomb everyone knew was coming: a two-run home run into the right-field seats by Jermaine Dye, who does a lot of the big-hit stuff that the Tigers have so regularly failed to do.
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Which brings us to the issue of Marcus Thames.
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Why do the Tigers keep him in a uniform that gets dirty only if someone failed to wipe down the dugout bench?
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The leading home-run hitter on the team has been in the lineup exactly once in four games this week.
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No player on the 25-man roster has gotten more game-breaking, game-saving home runs this year than Thames.
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And he sits. And sits.
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Let’s review some numbers:
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A man with 199 at-bats this season is tied for seventh in the American League in home runs with 19. Twenty-six of his last 40 hits have gone for extra bases (17 home runs, nine doubles).
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Productive player
He has slammed a home run every 13.60 times at-bat since joining the team in 2004.
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And this doozy: The Tigers are 15-2 in 2008 when Thames has hit a home run.
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If the Tigers are going to utilize him as a kind of roster phantom, then they owe it to Thames — as long as they aren’t going to take advantage of his power and proficiency — to get him to another team ahead of next week’s trade deadline.
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Jim Leyland, the Tigers manager, announced a month ago that Thames was going to play more regularly in left. The new policy was history about as quickly as it began.
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In Leyland’s defense, a kid named Matt Joyce was American League player of the week a couple of weeks ago. He plays better defense, which is a consideration, particularly late in the game.
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But even as hot as Joyce was earlier this month, he has a long way to go to catch the week Thames had from June 13-17, when Thames hit six home runs and not once in five games failed to hit a ball over the fence.
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The White Sox don’t give you much breathing room, not with their lineup. The Tigers, in fact, were living on borrowed time Friday night, mostly because Nate Robertson was strong through six innings. The Tigers’ offense was reasonably impressive, statistically (11 hits), but Detroit scored only once after the third inning, on a Carlos Guillen home run.
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In need of a big hit
What the Tigers lacked Friday night was what the White Sox got with two outs in the ninth: a big, two-run home run.
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A guy who might have provided one of those rockets was, once again, not in need of a shower afterward. Thames might be the most disciplined person in the Tigers clubhouse. He has kept his mouth shut across too many games in which he should have been in the lineup.
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It would be reasonable to assume the Mother Teresa stuff probably has reached its limit. It would if I were Thames and had his numbers and strength and track record to offer as evidence that I should be playing more, a lot more.
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Friday’s game was another gruesome loss for a team that has no business losing as many of these affairs as it does.
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How many times has it been for the lack of a big hit? How many times has the big hit been sitting in the dugout?

Sheffield and Renteria are the keys to the season. Leyland is putting the keys in but the batteries are dead.
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Give us Sanitiago and Thames and lets see if they can get the motor running..
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JL is not a very good manger when the game is close and on the line.
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If things had gone according to the master plan and the team scored over 6 runs a game on average he would look like manager of the year. But when we are struggling to average 5, it is a much different story.
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The Yanks needed an outfielder and a LHP in the pen. They went out and got them.

THis is not a championship team with Jones as the closer, according to Dan. Duh!
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They are also not a championship team with Sheff as DH.
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They are also not a championship team with the current starting pitching staff–although they are doing pretty well, the only real star is Verlander. They need a strong Bonderman back. Does anyone remember him against the Yanks in the playoffs two years ago?
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They also don’t really seem like a championship team with JL at the helm. It’s easy to pcik on when he pulls a pitcher after the fact, but there are other problems with him that people here have mentioned.
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I like all of the people I’m about to mention, but I would love to see a Tiger team without JL, Sheff, Edgar, Jones and Pudge next year. Inge can catch, we need ****, and let’s get a better manager. Let’s get Zumaya ready to be a closer, now that this season is looking like a lost one.
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That’s just my opinion.
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What’s clear is that we will be waiting until next year. They may give us a little thrill if Minn and CWS hit a rough spot. But the Tigers will probably only finish at about 10 games over .500, if even that.

Anyone else out there ready for a fan-mutiny?? Leyland is rediculous and has finally GOT TO GO!!!!! He must have the hots for Todd Jones!!!

That’s it loser…… keep it up. Keep walking the “opener” errrrrr…..TSN writer out to the mound to get hammered. This is like a bad joke being played out right in front of us.

He say he likes the TJ because he really knows how to prepare for the game?!?!!?!? He prepares very well….to get teed off on.

Why is SS for shortstop a banned word?

Dan,Its hard to disagree with most of the things that you have written. But there is one item that you and a lot of other posters seem to be in agreement on,that continues to baffle me,and that is defensive ability of Marcus Thames.I have heard the debates on whether to replace Marcus in left in the 9th as opposed to the 7th.Everybody seems to be in agreement that Marcus is a defensive liability.I dont see that at all.In fact I have seen no reason whatsoever to replace him at all for defensive measures.He has committed 1 error in 308 innings in left.A throwing error.The man has improved his fielding steadily over his years in the majors.He gets a better jump on balls than many other outfielders.A much better jump!I`ve watched Joyce out there.He is a defensive liabilityIn fact he has 3 errors in 267 innings this year,which is not awful in itself.But he doesnt get nearly the jump off the bat that Marcus gets.He doesnt go back well.From what I have seen,Marcus biggest weakness may be his arm.But he appears to have more accuracy on his throws than Matt.I think the defensive liability tag that Marcus carries on his forehead is a remnant of yesteryear.I think that people unjustly assume that he is weak in the the field because of his past.But it has become apparent to me that the man has worked hard to improve his fielding. I think JL doesnt like him personally,and he uses defense as an excuse too belittle him in the late innings.I also think that most of the fans have bought into it.But I have watched him all year and I do not believe his defense is bad enough to warrant the monicker of defensive liability.If that were the case,Matt Joyce should be called a defensive catastrophe.

Believe me guys that there wasn’t one of you more pissed off at the blown game last night than me. BELIEVE ME.
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But to completely put that loss on Todd Jones or Jim Leyland or Pudge would be insane in my opinion.
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For starters I believe that Nate had something like 84 pitches going into the 7th, you all would of been screaming if he hadn’t put him in there and Zumaya came in there and blew it in the 7th all by himself, it would of been why ddin’t he leave Nate in there, he was dominating. Zumaya wasn’t any better than Todd Jones last night.
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Then all the baserunning errors cost us a few runs, this team cannot hit a sac fly to save its life. I agree about his though where is Thames??? But the basrunning was aweful last night.
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Pudge made an error last night that blew the game before Todd Jones was two innings away from even coming in the game. But franky to say to get rid of Pudge is ridiculous, he is hitting well and has thrown out a ton of guys, in fact I have seen him save many guys this year by catching guys stealing. A lot more than he has screwed up. But that in my opinion was blown.
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Now IMO regarding Todd, yes he blew a heart breaker they are all heart breakers when you lose, but please people to say that Jenks is any better is ridiculous, he has blow 3 himself this year, Nathan has blown a couple, remember a few weeks ago he almost blew another against us. Pappelbon has blown 4 (one against us) and K-Rod has blow a few himself, although granted a lot more opportunity. Some of you have talked about Neal Blaine in Toledo, and while he has done well I saw him blow one in the minor league world series, what do you think that he would not againt Dye.
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Chicago did exactly what we have done to a lot of teams. Quentin was lucky, he had two strikes on him and got one to bleed through the infield. That crap just happens. But this game to me was lost way before the ninth. Zumaya, baserunning and an error by Pudge lost this way before then.

Regarding Blaine not in the world series, but the allstar game. My mistake

GK, Got to wholeheartedly disagree with the your comparison of Jenks and Todd….Todd has ERA around 5…Todd has OBA around .370.To even put Todd in the same category of Papelbon,Nathyan, and Jenks is a departure from reality.I like Todd and believe that he can do many things for this bullpen.But he does`nt have the overpowering stuff that is needed to face the middle of anyones lineup….As Dan has said many, many times he is not a championship closer. And, I would have to agree with Rich when he implies that Todd is the only one with that mental toughness closer mentality,currently.But, I also think that it is high time for Tiger management to make acommittment with Zu.Some might argue for Rodney.It doesnt matter.Tigers need to put Zu(Rodney) in that role and let them pitch there everyday.Zu needs to throw more frequently in order to maintain his control.Same with Rodney.Too many days off in a row spells control issues with power relievers.Always has been that way in the past.We need to get Todd out of there before he gets death threats.JL , is in my opinion is responsible for a large portion of the fans hatred for Edgar,Sheff,Todd and even Pudge at times. He sits hot players and forces slumping players to play at times and in situations that clearly diminish the odds of their success.The Tigers have championship caliber players which include Sheff,Edgar,Pudge,and yes,Todd jones.But they have to be put in the postions that take advantage of their skill and experience.JL does not do this.He insists on reinventing the wheel with an eliptical circumferance

Everyone here has made valid points. We all seem to be zeroing in on different problem areas which are being debated individually. When you take all these problem areas as a whole, however, you get the impression of a massive problem with this team and organization.
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Granted they’d gone 28-13 coming into this series, but that will never hold much water when it’s coming in interleague play. Since, they’ve lost 5 games they should have won, 3 to Minnesota, another in Baltimore, and last night’s fiasco.
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Some of this stems from non-production in key spots, and a good deal of it stems from poor decision making up top. I’ve had it up to here with Jim Leyland’s managerial style. No surprise. Unless you’re Joe Torre or Mike Sciosa, three years is about the limit for one manager. It’s his favoritism that bothers me the most, I guess. He’s blind to the fact that players can improve, that they don’t remain the same type of player they’ve always been. Hence, Thames and Santiago. He’s blind to the fact that same players are diminishing. Here you’ve got Renteria, Sheffield and Jones. People have complained about Todd for years and I’ve come to his defense, but it’s plain now that he’s finally losing it. He’s come into too many games unable to locate his stuff, and that’s his death knell.
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I could go on and on, preaching to the choir. Our players aren’t as good as they are purported to be, and they need better management. The season isn’t over because of one loss, there’s still plenty of big games left. It just looks like we don’t have the tools. As I rather loudly pointed out last night, it never did.
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Regarding last night’s game, I’m sticking to the two keys I’ve already mentioned. Players make errors, that’s part of the game. I didn’t want Nate in the 7th, said so at the time, and was willing to look a fool if Zumaya came in and blew it. I don’t like watching a game while typing on a computer, so you’ll have to trust me on that one. The double steal I wouldn’t have even imagined JL would try that in the situation. It never occurred to me to say “don’t try a double steal.” That’s like telling someone not to jump off the stadium roof. I was pretty flabbergasted. I think my comment was “What the **** was that” or some such (my own editing there).
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Anyway, DD put this team together, rarely poorly IMO, and now we’re stuck with most of it. We’d had a fairly competitive bunch that needed tweaks, not a wholesale re-shuffling. As far as 2008 goes, there’s only so much that can be done. I don’t think “the” deal can be made, too many problem areas. The only other thing is to change managers in mid-stream, which isn’t very likely. I sure would like to see a fresh approach, though.
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–Rich

I’ve stated this rather boring opinion over and over, that JL is baseballs answer to Bill Parcell’s when it comes to “who does what, when and where. And aren’t these the things that make for a good or bad mgr? WHY did Drew Bledsoe play so long for Parcell’s??? The answer was NOT because what he had done on the field…. the “answer” was because “Drew” was in Parcell’s penthouse, and good or bad or ugly, Bill was going to go with Drew, until someone forced the change…….ie….Romo, when people in that organization knew for a long time that Romo was head and shoulders better than Drew. Same thing going on here!!!

He has always played the guys that he likes. Sounds elementary, I know… Even sound childish. But, there is no good reason to play Sheff in that DH role. Earth to JL….. DUDE, Sheff is DONE!!!!! Put that big ol’ fork in the guy. D.O.N.E!!!! Pudge is just about there too! And with TJ coming in the 9th, this TEAM is basically DONE!!! ( don’t we long for the pre-DH days???). Pudge has great abilities and techniques behind the plate, even still in what is his twilight…. but is and has called a bad game, for years, and hits a VERY soft .260. He is not a catcher that straightens out nor communicates effectively with a pitcher. What he does is pat the guy on the back, and says “nice job.” The larger problem with this is C.Hernandez. But, these guys are just part of the “Old Boys Club.” No one except people on this blog will talk this way about these guys. But the reality is they suck, but despite that….. their isn’t anyone who is gonna do anything about it. Love watching him get out on a bunt and make that play to 2nd, but nonetheless, they’re are about 30 other catchers in this league that I’d rather have. OK, well….let’s say 20..

Don’t we have enough fakes out there having to listen to the likes of Barak Obomba swoon this country with his bs, without also having to watch in frustration as this team, which ought to be/could be leading this division, sits at .500?

I think DD’s intentions were good but the holes he tried to fill were not all filled and the ones that were, were filled with the wrong personnel.
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A LHB for LF was hole to be filled. Jacque Jones was obviously not the answer, and it was obvious to many before they acquired him.
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A ShortStop was needed. Edgar Renteria was not the guy they needed to fill the hole. They needed youth, speed, untapped potential and defense.
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It was abundantly clear we needed a closer. One that could “silence the bats”. Jones was (and still is) getting older and more luck would be needed to see him wiggle his way out of 9th innings.
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I personally thought it was time to find us a young catcher. While not an immediate “hole” for this year it was a positon that needed some attention and Pudge still had enough marketability to attract some quality.
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The Tigers went for veterans like J Jones and Renteria. My guess is JL had veterans on his wish list. The problem with having a wish list sometimes is the wishing part. you get guys that you wish will do as well as they did last year. They were wishing that J Jones would rediscover his power and average. they were wishing that Edgar Renteria would win a gold glove, hit .330 and drive in 100 like he did 5 years ago.
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These were mistakes and they had the good sense to admit one of them when they released JJ.
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Using Sheffield is a conundrum. They know that IF (that’s a BIG if), he hits and creates a menacing presence he will make the whole lineup better. They plug him in and wait for him to awake from his slumber. What they have not realized is that he is very probably not physically capable of that any longer. And while they try to engineer events they are sitting a guy who has performed well.
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Sheff got an RBI yesterday and that looks good in the box score but in actuality it should have been an easy bases-loaded DP…….again. He is not driving the ball up the gaps and without that I don’t see value in him as our DH.
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Losing games, like we have lately against the Twins the O’s and the Sox have been debilitating. We can’t afford to lose the games “we could have won”. It hurts you in the standing but it really hurts you in the psyche, which is much worse.
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I hope management does something about this. Remember that definition of “insanity”??

Is it true that Amelia Guillen is still in hospital?
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I hope everything is going to be OK for her and the Guillens.
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Get Well Amelia.

Dan, thats the best post(which means I just agree whole heartedly with every word)… on this blog.

Yeah, I heard that about Amelia last night too. I’m surprised at this. I had assumed (correctly as it turned out) what the problem was to begin with, but now this is concerning. Jason, any details suitable for release are always welcome on that.
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I guess for right now our biggest needs are a reliever and another starter. This George Sherrill guy in Baltimore has closer makeup. Sort of Vin Diesel with a very dry sense of humor. He’d be pricey. I doubt anyone is much interested in Sheffield or Renteria, but any decent relief pitcher would do. We’ll need to be using more guys to close games, IMO.
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Speaking of that, what did JL mean when he said he’d be “watching” Jones? Was that just a bone to placate media and fans? That would be typical of him. Was anyone warming up for Thome last night? Seems I’d be prepared for that eventuality if I was actually watching Jones. We don’t have anyone that can be plugged in there with any real confidence, but they’d better start trying Zumaya and even Rodney in the role. I had confidence in Jones because he didn’t walk people and rarely gave up homers. Now he’s doing both, and I think his effective days are behind him.
.
Any other big negatives we have right now could be corrected, IMO, by using the personnel we have in the proper fashion. You know, the usual suspects.
.
–Rich

Forget Renteria going to the Dodgers. They got Casey Blake from the Indians for the minor league catching prospect we could’ve used.

But the Dodgers are still needing a shortstop. That catching prospect’s name is really familiar. Carlos Santana? Where have I heard that name before? Oye como va!!

Anyone who prays, please pray for Amelia. I too don’t know what’s going on with her, but prayer does work.
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I’m finally getting caught up on the blogs here. I watched the game last night and after the shocking finish, I just had to walk away from it. I realized (once again) that I hopelessly take this game way too seriously. I know you guys and ladies are much more in control of your emotions:-) Anyway, absolutely great blogs here…you can taste the frustration. Mitch, loved your Obama comment. I know this is a baseball forum and not politics but it is SO TRUE.
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I’m sick of the double talk from JL, as he continually makes excuses for why he doesn’t do what we all seem to understand quite clearly. If you want to even entertain the idea of making a run, it’s time to make some fundamental changes to the 2008 program.
#1. Thames must play….a full 9 innings. LHP, RHP, I could give a rat’s hind parts.
#2. Santiago in at short.
#3. Inge every other game at catcher and some at 3rd also when Carlos DH’s.
#4. Lets close by committee…….ooooooo that would be coloring outside the lines wouldn’t it. You go with the hot hand, and at this very moment it’s Rodney. Why not use Todd to set up when the situation calls for it? You work with who you’ve got the best way you can.
#5. Address the present needs in the offseason when you don’t have to give away so much. Don’t look for a savior now. It ain’t happenin’.
.
Dan, thanks for posting that article by Dave Dye. That was excellent. And Dave, if you’re reading this……thanks for saying so eloquently what so many of us have been posting here all along. Marcus must be a saint to have kept quiet for all these years. He was better that Monroe, he was better than J. Jones, and I could add still more names. JL, you just don’t get it on this issue.
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Well we can all hope for better tonight. Again, great blogging everyone. I was going to name some of you but realized I’d have to list you all.

I’m still recovering from last night… that didn’t go well. Not at allll.
.
I was disappointed to see the catching prospect we could use go to the Indians as well. Although I will say this: how lucky does that deal the Indians made for Kenny Lofton last deadline look? Max Ramirez looks like a possible stud in the wings in Texas, and I’m glad he’s out of our division.
.
JV is our stopper, and boy do we need him to fill that role tonight. A shut down performance would go a long way in helping the psyche of this team. We still have a shot at 2 out of 3, but I’m not holding my breath unless someone can put some air under our wings!

Hey Marty, 100% agree with your last paragraph, and you can add your own name to the list. Seems it takes the worst to to get the best out of us. Ah, nature of the game, I suppose.
.
Your five point list is very succinct. I’d even amend #2 to Santiago playing at least SOME of the time if I thought it would do any good. Thames, darn right, a full nine. I’m thinking he’s a better LFer than Joyce anyway. JL is obviously living in the past when it comes to player assessment. Closing by committee requires a lot of thinking on the part of the manager. Just as most of us do our jobs, a person finds the most efficient (and many times easiest) way to perform it. In JL’s case, that means depositing each player into a labeled cubbyhole, and not veering from that approach. And it doesn’t work.
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I’ll bet that if any one of us had a chance to ask JL one question, and JL was forced to answer it honestly, the question would be “why don’t you play Thames more?” Of course, the key word there was “honestly.”
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–Rich

in a sense- i see this scenario RE: thames is probable. if not THE reason….
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upper management. above JL even…. DD perhaps, some other guys, maybe….
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they went and spent a lot of money on JJones in the offseason. don’t recall hearing anyone, anywhere, at any time thinking that was a bad move. we have a LF power hitter on the bench….. but… thames isn’t left handed. so what….
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so upper management reconciles the fact that JJones couldn’t hit a baseball. he’d probably even avoid being hit by a baseball, just to ensure he stays off the bases. (of course i’m only speculating)…. so he’s finally cut. now it should appear thames should go in to LF, nope, brought up toledo guys who are untested. marginally beneficial over jones (IMHO). then they get even more nuts by sticking guillen in LF… and thames sits….
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i think management is trying to cover their pooholes and everyone is passing the buck. offseason trades for the most part (except MC hammer and galaragga) were ALL flops. ALL of them. renteria, jjones, willis, cruceta, sheffield (two years ago) etc.etc.etc…. if i were illich, i’d be pulling what’s left of my hair out, screaming and causing myself hernia’s and anuerisms.
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now, i think, retrospectively, we all liked the MC hammer trade, most of us liked the aquisition of cruceta (though largely untested) and most of us abso-friggen-lutely HATED the renteria trade. well… now we’re paying for it. i certainly hope the young pitching we gave the yankees dont ever do anything important in the bigs, cuz that would be even worse. 2 years of farm slaughter, no wonder the price of food is rising. :)
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anyways, i’m kinda rambling, i guess my point is, that the decisions on what personnel to play, may not be solely in JL’s hands, but coming down from above for someone to save face. ultimately, JL’s gonna become the scapegoat for this circus and will either be fired or retire the day after the season ends.
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just my opinion(s)
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mike

and BTW- dan and rich- stop using words that i have to stop and google :) succinct??? yikes! i dont even know how to pernounce that! LOL

I’ll tell you folks; it’s tough to be a Detroit Sports fan. I don’t know about any of you all out there, but i am a loyalions Fan too. How’s that for true punishment. The reason for making this point is that the Lions with all of their blundering and buffooning over the past ten years have done one thing right. They have cut their losses in personnel. Granted it’s so much easier in the NFL with the salary structure, but look at all the high profile players they have let go. And they might have given up on K. Jones too soon this year. I am not going to defend Leyland; he will have to do that himself. But look at the contracts he is saddled with- Sheffield- over 13M, Renteria-10+M, and T Jones is a tidy 8M for one year. That’s the reason Thames at 1.4 M can sit and sit for days at a time . Joyce plays because of this ancient rule of lefty vs. righty. We didn’t worry about all of this garbage in our glory days of 68 and 84. The lineup played and that was that. These contracts are guaranteed. All of these All American football players sign 5 year deals for 42 M, and it’s not guarnateed money.
When you commit to playing with a “superstar” lineup to win it all at the moment, it’s the chance you take. Just think if we had won the battle for Carl Pavano. How so you think the Braves feel about the Hampton deal, and oh yeah, how about that new Andrew Jones free agency deal. The Dodgers are laughing a mile a minute. And so we are where we are; Remember Willis-29M for 6 innings this year, Nate, long term deal. Many of you still look at Inge’s 24 M, and say what is wrong with the Tigers? It would be great to cut the losses, but JL can’t do that. Thus you play overpaid, overaged, former stars to play and not perform. It is what it is. And theyr’e still my team.
Greg

Well……..yea David, I understand. The Tigers are the team that draws us to this blog in the 1st place.

Problem, this team has a few losers that are messing the whole thing up for everyone. Thus, the frustration rampant in this here blog!!

For the most part, we’re looking at problems, that can be dealt with. I NEVER buy that dogma that says’ you HAVE TO play a Renteria, simply because of his salary. He brings very little to the table, as does Shef and that ever present 9th inning nightmare named, Todd Jones.

SIT THEM DOWN!! Tell them, “dude, you’re DONE as a Tiger.” Warm the seat, and maybe we’ll call your name once a week.” But get them the heck out-of-there!!!!

Yes, and whomever made an earlier comment on the need to develop a new young catcher, was dead on! Pudge has 1 foot in the baseball grave. I call him Mr. DP, now. If he’s not going opposite field, it’s a for sure out. He can hardly get around on Wakefield these days….

This team would probably be in 1st place right now if they hadn’t traded Jairs for that stalwart, Renteria…..

Geeeeeez…… I just can’t get over that STUPID move…. Same will be said eventually about Andrew Miller….

Braves and Marlins have got to be a joyous bunch, don’t you think?

Last night’s game pierced my very soul. Tonight’s has me numbly resigned to accepting what all the hazard signs have been pointing at all season.
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The team really has really not played well enough to deserve a fate better than they have earned so far. Management has been wanting. JL’s attitude and chip on his shoulder have been as much to blame as the lineups he has submitted to home plate. I’ve lost a lot of respect for the man this year with his rhetoric, double talk, and (like Leyland likes to preface many of his statements with, “to be honest with you”), deception.
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If this club falls apart then Jl has to shoulder the blame. Simple as that.
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JV didn’t have it but he’s the best we got and he pitches 20% of the time (actually much less than that). We need more than that to become a playoff contender.
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I am at the point where it doesn’t matter much anymore but cn anybody spell Ian Oslund? Blaine Neal? Brent Clevlen?
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Seay once again showed that he is not the guy who can blow LHB away. Quite the opposite.
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I’m ready for some fresh faces as I feel the season and its possibilities are pretty much determined already. There is no way we can progress with the same dogged, resolute, stubborness that we have seen Leyland resort to all season. If he stays, we lose. I think he has lost the confidence of the guys who are actually going out there and playing with some character. I do think he has gained the confidence of Renteria, Pudge, Sheffield, Jones and Robertson.

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