Renteria out, Larish in

OK, it’s not a straight switch, but it’s the highlights of the lineup today. Leyland said he expects Renteria back on Friday after strained his left hammy Wednesday night. Larish, meanwhile, gets the start at first base, giving Miguel Cabrera and his sore left hip flexor a day at DH.

TIGERS (46-44)

  1. Granderson, CF
  2. Polanco, 2B
  3. Guillen, 3B
  4. Cabrera, DH
  5. Joyce, RF
  6. Thames, LF
  7. Larish, 1B
  8. Rodriguez, C
  9. Santiago, SS

TWINS (50-41)

  1. Carlos Gomez, CF
  2. Alexei Casilla, 2B
  3. Mike Redmond, C
  4. Justin Morneau, 1B
  5. Craig Monroe, DH
  6. Delmon Young, LF
  7. Brendan Harris, 3B
  8. Nick Punto, SS
  9. Denard Span, RF

 

99 Comments

I hope the Tigers can defend the bunts by Gomez & Casilla a little better on grass. Take those away and those guys won’t be able to hurt us as much. It helps to have a guy like Kenny Rogers on the mound that can defend his position after the pitch.

I love to see a lineup without Shef! I am sorry to anyone that is a fan, but he drives me crazy! I hope Ramon puts on a show today and shows JL that he should get more playing time. All in all it looks like a good lineup. Can’t wait to read all your opinions! GO TIGERS!

And Gk, I just caught up on last nights posts. I also am sorry to hear of your loss, my sympathy to you and your family.

Nice pitching Kenny

7 pitch walk to Ramone was sweet.Its good to see him work this pitcher that way.

Way to hit Curtis,Nice score Ramone

They`ve kept Joyce well oiled,Bran new game 2-2

Joyce – 7 hr’s in 79 ab – way to go!

alright boys.. let’s blow this open and get a bit of a lead on these guys..
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Great inning..

How bout that 2 bag gapper by Ramone.He`s playing solid so far 5-2 guys lets build it some more

I couldn’t help but smile last night seeing Curtis on the heels of Dane coming into score. Thoughts of last year, when Sean Casey said, they Leyland makes sure he doesn’t put slow runners on end of lineup, with CG… well? Whats with this year? The conversation with some of my buddies are all happy to see C Thomas, & M Joyce out there. THat speed is great to see. If they help win more games, as I am hoping they do, its going to send reminders to head office, that thier thinking is all wrong, going after high dollar free agents, when we have our own talent.
Let em play!

Wow! What a 4th inning.. yee haw! ..bummer.. I have to go to work soon.. man.. good game.. chem em up Tigers!!!
Stay out as long as you want Edgar!

we need to go to that Twins bulpen now!

Santiago has surpassed a month’s production from Renteria in 1 AB today..

Ramone`s SLG is at .610 , trailing only Marcus at .616…..

Good to see the boys get Slowey out of the game. Minnesota’s bullpen is in dire shape after the Boston series.
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From the looks of it on Gameday, MC just missed another homer to end the fourth.

Jgo, the outfielder jumped up at the wall.. they didn’t make it sound on the radio like he was robbed of a hr though so it might have hit the top part of the wall or something.

Good job Kenny.

Fernandos change up is flying off the bat fairly well.

oh dear god..

Todd Jones is shortening my life span. I love the guy but dear god does he make me nervous.

Why Todd Jones, why? Is he honestly the best we have?

Ok, really don’t need to see Morneau here

oh no, Jones!!! what happened? I am only online, how did they score from first on a single, is the guy that fast? Now we have to score in our next at bat – yikes, thought we had this game a few innings ago.

So much for that

I thought a closer was supposed to get outs, not give up leads.

well.. whether or not we win this one today.. some questionable pitching decisions by leland.. of course it’s obvous for me to say this after they each gave up a run but i thought they stayed with kenny an inning too long and i did not like rodney in the 8th.. whatever happened to dolsi?! He hasn’t pitched since Sunday..

How many chances does Jones deserve? And don’t tell me that all closers have bad days. NO lead is safe when TJ enters the game, ever. The guy just isn’t a quality closer.

Tiger Girl.. two base error on Joyce scored the runner from first and moved the single over to 3rd.

Seay can not hit the broadside of a barn on some days.. i don’t get it..

I am so not a fan of Seay, please prove me wrong and get us out of this inning!

4 pitch walk. Yeah, that’s just what we need here.

Hey, there’s Freddy Dolsi

So why not just bring Dolsi in to begin with? At least he would have had one less baserunner to worry about.

Monroe makes me nervous against us this year. Hopefully Dolsi can get ahead and get him to chase a high fastball or something in the dirt.

Dolsi is appearing about 8 outs too late.. he should have been given the ball in the 7th and if he had a decent inning should have went back out in the 8th.. we might not have even seen jones in the 9th had that move been made..

Scratch that on Monroe. And Dolsi does the job. Now we need one. Wonder if they’ll bring Nathan in?

See, now was that so hard? Good grief!

Another walkoff would be real pleasent right about now

This bottom of the 9th is eerily similar to last night in that it’s the same part of the order due up. Let’s have a repeat performance….

I bet MCab doesn’t get a thing to hit.

2-2 guillen needs to be on the move

That was big Carlos

whoops.. gamecast was a little slow.

Check out Carlos with the wheels…nice job there

gotta sacrifice joyce here

How about a bunt Joyce

Come on Joyce, a base hit is all you need.

Gotta bunt Joyce

Definitely need to bunt here

I guess thats why he dont bunt much

Really wish Thames was still in the game!

Huge wild pitch!!

Thank you Joe Nathan! Now let’s capitalize on this situation!

who is left on the bench?.. besides renteria…? sheff? would they dare?

Alright, just need something halfway deep to the outfield

no dp! no dp! no dp! sac fly sac fly sca fly!

it’s all up to Pudge

well at least it wasn’t a double play.. come on pudge!

Hrm, if you can’t PH Sheff for Larish, should Sheff even be on the team?

bases loaded walk? lol

Alright Pudge, time to come through in the clutch

a walk would be nice

well i guess the thinking is… 1 he’s a left hander.. 2 if you pull larish.. who do you have to play 1st.. 3 if you put sheff in he’s has to play somewhere in the field unless you bring in renteria..

NO!!!!

What a waste, that is some bad baseball. :(

Ugh, bases loaded and we can’t get it done. Well, I am off for the rest of the day and weekend, taking the day off tomorrow and don’t really plan on posting from home much but we’ll see. I pray on the drive to pick up the kids from daycare that I hear a good result to this game. come on guys, pick up Jones and he’ll take you all out for dinner.

Well Minnesota’s bullpen is thin, maybe they’ll bring in one of their position players to pitch

Can we trade Sheff for Matt Stairs?

Whew!

Good work getting out of the jam. Santiago leading off next half inning, let’s get something going.

Grandy’s due!

Guess its a good day for 11

It is if we can get the win Bruce

Now Joyce doubles

ouch!

Chaulk this one up to the Tigers blow-pen!

This game sums up why we wont make playoffs and why every year Minnesota is a contender :(.

IMO not only the pen, but even early on to many blown opportunities with men on base and less than 2 outs. I said it early on, they stopped hitting after their 5 runs in the fourth. That is just the kind of stuff that ticks me off. And the way they let Nathan off the hook. Pathetic.

piker, this is one game. We need everyone to think positive and the Tigers WILL make the playoffs. How about we win the next three. I don’t think anyone on this site is hoping for a split.
I got home from work and it was the bottom of the 9th. There will probably be bunting practice tomorrow.
I know some of you don’t like Sheff but I would rather have him at the plate than a rookie. At least put the ball in play and anything can happen. And of course Pudge swings at a high one. Dolsi, gotta keep it down if you pitch to Morneau.
Go Santiago! Keep resting Renteria because of tired bat.
Let’s Go Tigers!
–Dave

I gotta hand it to ya, caledonia, you are one optimistic Tiger fan. If only it were that easy to think positively and will our team to victories and the playoffs. You think taking the next three is going to be easy? The Twinkies just seem to have our number this year, kinda like Cleveland did last year. For whatever reason, we just can’t seem to land a knockout punch to those guys. They just keep plugging away at us even when we get up on them. Who the heck is this Span guy they got in rightfield? He’s hitting better than Cuddyer would have. No, winning the next three is highly improbable. Right now I’d be happy with a split and any less than that will definitely put us behind the eightball.

–Ed–

I didn’t get to see the game till the 10th inning started. I went to the archived game and looked at a few things that happened earlier in the game, however.
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Looks like we just got beat by what is, at this point, a better team. Needed add on runs and never got them. The bullpen is what it is. Zumaya pitched last night. Jones may have gotten himself out of the usual situation he was creating, but Joyce’s error took care of that possibility. Since Jones also pitched last night, we end up with Dolsi going a little longer than I’m comfortable with.
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One thing I may have tried in the bottom of the 9th with Joyce due up. First I’ll say I have no idea if Matt has any bunting skills, but JL would or should know that. Anyway, the other option was to PH Raburn to lay down the bunt, and leave Cabrera at first. Raburn PRing for Cab held only marginal advantage. If, however, Joyce is a guy who should have been able to lay one down, then I bow to JL’s decision.
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At any rate, some of the Toledo guys are looking good at times, and there may be a future in the post “lineup of the century” world.
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So back at it tomorrow. All you can do.
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–Rich

Well. How many out there are wondering who is the biggest problem!?!?!!? Todd Jones? Or….. the less than Mgr. who continues to run him out there in the 9th, believeing he’s actually a “closer???”

This is unbelieveable to me!!!

just wondering,how many times has jones come into a game this year and not given up base hit or walks,i can’t recall a 1 2 3 ining from him.

Rich,Joyce treid to bunt twice.It was brutal.After those 2 tries,I doubt we`el be see him bunt again anytime soon.JL`s usual defensive strategy by replacing Marcus in the 7th meant at least more 2 AB`s he missed down the stretch,maybe 3……….JL continues to pull him after 7and I dont find his defensive skills that bad to warrant an automatic depature every game…..It bit JL tonight though….Also, the stats keep piling up thats shows Thames would be most effective in the 3 hole,and Carlos at the 5 slot….Marcus continues to lead the leaague with HR`s per at bat.Right now it sits at 1 every 8 AB`s or so.Thats better than Ruths career average……I hope JL doesnt see this post because he`ll probally pull Marcus in the 5th if he does…Got to believe JL has something against Thames,in spite of the flowery talk JL had with reporters yesterday.He stated that Marcus has more power than anyone in the major leagues,AL or NL…..Right JL,so platoon him,hit him low in the order,and of course pull him in the 7th no matter who we`re up against,Cuz our stellar bullpen will shoot em all down anyway….Caleodon,It`s tough to have faith when JL`s calling the shots.He continues to fly in the face of logic at every opportunity……..Also,Did you know that our current winning PCT. is higher than JL`s all time winning PCT.In other words,on paper,he`s doing better than average in his wins with this team,than what is his norm…..

Right Bruce, I watched the inning on MLB.TV archive. Joyce didn’t look too good bunting so I wondered what his experience level is with this. JL should know, and I’m extending the benefit of the doubt because I don’t. If it’s a fact that Joyce is not a passable bunter, then you PH Raburn who can then go into RF if necessary. Having Raburn instead pinch run for Cabrera is a marginal advantage. Raburn might get down to second quicker and avoid a force there, but even if they get the force, you’ve still got your winning run at third, along with Nathan who might throw a slider in the dirt. Not to mention Big Cab still in the game. But this all goes back to the original question: how good a bunter is Joyce supposed to be? That’s the key in my view.
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I’ll agree that JL pulls the defensive trigger on Thames too soon. It’s not like Marcus is a lumbering clown out there. I’d save that move for the 9th with a lead. No sooner.
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I don’t know, I just like the field managing part of the game, rather than the front office stuff. Game decisions, personnel decisions, that type of thing. Such as who have you got in the organization and what’s the best use to make of them.
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With that in mind, I’d like to know who, besides Jones, can close for this team? And remember you’d be changing the makeup of the entire bullpen. That’s the question to answer. Anyone can complain.
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–Rich

Well it is pretty easy to complain about Jones. He does provide a lot of material.
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Who besides Jones can close? The answer may be as easy as, well, anybody else. I’d almost rather see Inge than Jones. I did not see the game but the wrap and summary tells me all I need to know.
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1)Jones can’t get people out when you need him to.
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2)The club sometimes re-enters the Coma Zone when they get a few to start the game.
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No runs off the bullpen after they chased the starter.
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Jones gives up 3 hits in an inning where if he does what he is designed to do, you win the game.
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Even the other night they pummeled Jones and he was bailed out by his defense. He could easily have lost that game.
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Call me irreverent but Jones is not a high caliber closer and unless they find one, that will be a very large part of a consequently disappointing season. Who cares if he is a nice guy? Who cares if he is a character? Who cares if he can entertain the masses during a rain delay?
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I care that you need to be pretty certain that if you bring him in he will be difficult to hit, hard to score on and will lead your team to victory. He’s not gonna do that folks, at least not often enough to make it matter.
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The “is what it is ” philosopy is a weak one. The Tigers went out and plugged what they thought were a few holes during the off-season. They did not, and I’ll never know why, go out and find a high calber closer even though they knew Zumaya was either finished or pretty much out of the loop for 2/3 of the season.
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It is very frustrating to see JL resort to his programmed (and predictable) mastermind strategy of either bencihing Marcus or replacing him, putting Rodney in key situations, and closing with one of the bottom closers in the league repeatedly. I think it was Einstein who postulated the definition of insanity as trying the same things over again in tha same situations and hoping for a different outcome
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It doesn’t matter what Jones has done in the past, it matters what he is doing now. It doesn’t have anything to with personality it has to do with efficency. He is simply inefficent.
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Okay, I should re-phrase. Barring a trade, who on the staff right now would you use as closer and how would you set up the rest of the pen in that scenario?
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Open question for anyone. For discussion’s sake, since nothing we come up with would ever be enacted in reality. That much is clear.
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I’m out for the night. Long day today.
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–Rich

As far as a closer goes they could also try a guy in Toledo by the name of Blaine Neal who just happens to have 23 saves and an ERA of 1.39. In 32 + IP, he has amassed 36 Ks while allowing 23 hits and 11 BBs.
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That may be in the International League but we’ll never know what he can do here if for some reason those stats aren’t good enough to warrant a call-up.
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While I am fully aware of comparing apples to oranges or lemons, as the case may be, Jones in 35+ IP has an ERA of over 5.00, and has given up 43 hits and 13 BBs while striking out 12.
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Rich,Why cant you have a guy like Dolsi or Zu,or even Rodney go 2 ip for a save. If they`re throwing well in the 8th why not toss the 9th. Why must the same guy do all the closes.Split it up some and let the whole staff contribute.That gives us the chance to throw our pitching strenghts against their hitting weakness….

can someone please tell me why JL is still going with Bonine after the All-star break…it is soooooooo frustrating to see Aqi Lopez dominate in long relief, short relief, with the big club, or with AAA…..WHY NOT START HIM…..THAT WAS THE REASON HE GOT SENT DOWN……BONINE GETS HIT ALL OVER THE PLACE BY THE WORST OFFENSE IN BASEBALL
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so frustrating…..im done ranting

I’m a new blogger but follow the tigers very closely. JL doesn’t seem to have the control one might think, maybe he play and bench people because of pressure from Dombroski. The reason i say this is because coaches get fired when their under achieve with this type of payroll.
Players get hot with the bat and get benched taking away their rhythm and timing. If a player is hot let him play and the team wins. Leyland plays some of the younger players due to needing to get a blend on the field which is most likely dictating from the front office.

todd jones should continue as long as jl put him out there. the blame goes to jl, but management doesn’t hold him accountable. check the winning percentage when thames start. it’s ridiculous to pull this player every time he plays for a defensive replacement. if he can play 7 innings , he can play 9. do they pull jl for a coaching replacement.

Bruce, Dan, and Rich, I would like to see Zoom as the closer. I think he has come back strong and now has a few games in. Isn’t that what almost everyone wants to see?
Yes Jones pitches to contact and now the “art of pitching”, but we need someone to come in and blow the fastball by the hitter! I think JL sometimes over manages. Too many defensive replacements, pinch runners, etc.
I will still have faith until the fat lady sings, but no it wasn’t fun watching the bottom of the 9th when we did not get a win off of Nathan.
Go Tigers!
–Dave

Bases loaded, and we didn’t win it in the ninth? SIGH… It happens. I wonder how Joyce took it blowing that miss played hit in the outfield. Star one day, big L on his jersey the next. My only forgivness, is he isn’t making 6 or 8 mill. SO thats life. I am sure his buddies tell him.. hey, tomorrows another day.. least you aren’t caught on ESPN on a cell phone during a game. Or is it that bad?
My only insight to any this, is its a disapointment, that I have to wish the leaders, CWS loose, so that we can catch up to them. We need to win these games in our division.
Baseball is a fun game, the outcomes aren’t always easy to take. Other nights game with Cleveland was 0 -6, and I thought we were in the coma zone again. Yesterday I left for work thinking, allright.. we got this one..6-2.. Ha!
Just have to see whats in store the second half. If we can have bad outings.. so can Gardner, and Ozzie’s gang!
Hang in there folks.. best is yet to come with our boys.
Maybe JL makes mistakes, but I think he is seeing how deep our bench is. We have some excellant talent that I didn’t realize we had.
Oh, yes, and great to see Thomas on best plays on ESPN..
Front office has to see the power as well as us, with Thames, excellant talent in our rooks, excellant slugging with him and R Santiago.. just give them a chance and they will prove it. I hope to see Maggs come back to original hitting form when he gets back. Somebody has to be sick looking at the money going out to our SS, and know that they got a bad deal in last falls trade. Thats life. Sometimes it shows people have more money to throw around than sense!

I mis-spoke a bit last night. Had just come back from a “wind-up tournament” and was a bit wound up myself.
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When I said “MLB caliber closer I really meant “championship caliber closer”.
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I am not , and never have been, a Todd Jones fan. I don’t mean that in a personal sense but rather in the sense that what I see in him does not inspire me with confidence. I think that is something that is very neccessary commodity in your closer. You have to feel like “All right we get to bring xxxxx in now!”, and not “oh no, we have to bring xxxxx in now.
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I know there is a prevailing attitude that Jones is our closer and it is what it is, but I am saying that it does not have to be that way. You can go out and find someone else.
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Management still believes in Jonesie and they love and treat him like a comrade in arms. Their loyalty is admirable.
Those perceptions of him will not make him recapture yesterday. They will try him over and over again until he comes in and locks one down in impressive fashion. And I have no doubt he will do that. But the consitency and the certainty you need from your closer will not be provided by Jones. He is, and has been at the waning end of a very nice career. People get old, athletes get old faster. Jones is 40 years old competing against studs without the benefit of a trick pitch or a biting fastball.
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Zumaya may be the closer in waiting but after his injury, he will need a little more time to rehab on the job. I think they really still need to be aware of stressing his arm too much. I don’t think he is ready to be thrown in the fire but I do believe he is close.
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Rodney does not have the demeanor for the role. Nor does he have the control that is imperative to succeed.
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Dolsi is inconsitent. He’s not found himself yet. Promising but not reliable enough.
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The guy that might do well there is Lopez. But the club is all over the map with what they expect from him. (Long guy, middle reliever or starter?) He can get you a K, and he can get you a ground ball. What I reall like about him is he does NOT walk many. Pretty important attribute for a late inning reliever.
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As I said before-I would like to see them give Neal a chance. You just never know what results a guy from the farm can achieve in the bigs. Sometimes they come in and perform at even greater levels than they did in the minors. But, my point is we’ll never know if you don’t give him a chance.
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I think many of us here are hopeful for our rookies but to expect them to come through in ultra pressure situations is a little too hopeful. Both Larish and Joyce could not summon the intangible quality of being able to adjust their approach in order to win the club a ball-game. That happens but I think JL has to be a bit more mindful of that. With Joyce up in that bunt situation did we not have Inge or Renteria that could have dropped one down?
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That was a tough loss and I hope they can come back from it today.

A good Friday to everyone, and another beautiful July weekend on tap. Just thought I’d respond to some posts. I had left a question out there last night and got some replies, so that’s great. We used to do a lot of that here.
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Gipper, welcome aboard. I’ll have to give you the prize for most original thinking when you suggested a 7th inning replacement for Leyland. That’s priceless. “Okay Jim, late innings, hand it over to Lamont to close it out.”
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Bruce, you think like me on some of today’s accepted strategies. Unfortunately, baseball, like most businesses, just copies what is seen as successful. I don’t even remember who was the first manager to use the 9th inning closer (would this have to do with Bruce Sutter?), but it must have been successful because it’s become SOP. Hard to change that. Impossible almost. I’d sure like to rotate about three guys into finishing games.
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Dan, Blaine Neal as this year’s Bobby Jenks. Might happen. Neal’s not young like Jenks was, though, and a lot of clubs seem to have given up on him. OTOH, sometimes a guy finds it at 30.
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Dave, I knew someone would suggest Zumaya, and it’s most likely coming. Once you do that, of course, the rest of the pen has to be realigned. I don’t think Rodney has setup stuff because he can’t control his fastball. Dolsi does, it appears. JL would have to upgrade his opinion on Lopez and you know how that goes. Slow as a truck climbing Pike’s Peak. And Jones himself would have to end up somewhere, unless they just unceremoniously cut him. That wouldn’t be right.
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I’ve said this before, but I think your strikeout guy has to be available to enter into a late inning situation. The closer just has to get three outs. So…………..what about a guy who closed all last year for Toledo, Mr. Aqualino Lopez? I don’t know for a fact, but he may have a higher percentage of scoreless innings than anyone out there.
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–Rich

We were writing at the same time, Dan, and both mentioned Lopez as closer. Great minds and all that. :-)
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When I said the bullpen “is what it is” I was actually referring to yesterday’s game. I thought there may be some grumbling about JL’s pitching decisions yesterday, but that hasn’t happened as much as I thought it would.
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–Rich

Rich,I think thet when we get caught up into the closer mentality mindsets,we put more pressure on the person whose job it is to fill it….If I throw TJ in the 9th in at the Twins,I`m not putting my best guy I`ve got out there against that club.Contact hitting club like theirs requires Zu`s heater……..But against Red Sox I might prefer both Lopez and Dolosi over Zu.(Infact I,do)….Yankees get leftys and Jones,Dolsi and Lopez again,but teams that work pitchers and make contact are tailor made for Zu(if he can hold the plate with control) I fail to see the logic that requires one man to handle every hitter in the league if its the 9th inning.Why cant I use Jones to get the free swingers and Zu to get the Mauers and Jeters,Why do I want to have Jones pitch to Mauer or Morneau.Nobody in their right mind wants that matchup if your a Tiger fan.So TJ gets the 1 and 2 hitter out. 1 out to go with Mauer and Morneau,Sorry TJ good job,But,Now I want ZU cuz he has the best chance to get that particular hitter out. …….I didnt add Rodney cause I`m not sure about him yet.

Preachin’ to the choir, Bruce. Don’t get me started on closers, pitch counts, maple bats, strike zones, interleague play, unbalanced schedules, Fox blackouts, God Bless America instead of Take Me Out to the Ballgame, coaches in helmets, instant replay, fan voting in All-Star games, the World Series at night, Buck and McCarver, ballparks named after banks, suites in ballparks, players who can’t bunt, agents, players using steroids instead of drinking beer, Bud Selig, Red Sox Nation, setup men……….gasp gasp………scoreboards that tell……….gasp……fans when…..gasp gasp………..to cheer……..gasp………PLUNK!
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Here’s a link I picked up next door at MLive. Enjoy.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKr8QzjixJ4
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–Rich

Well, I’ve been reading through the posts today- I was at the game yesterday and yes, our bullpen blew it and Joyce picked an awful time to make a huge error- but my biggest complaint is about JL’s decisions near the end of the game- the pitchers he chose have been discussed and I agree whole-heartedly, Jonsie is not the every situation guy, but why oh why were Inge and Sheffield were still sitting when we needed that big hit- I mean, adequate bunt and then a ground ball or fly ball to win in the 9th? We didn’t even need a hit at that point- just well placed bat on ball!

We could have had Sheff come in to pinch run for Miggy and Ryan Raburn lay down the bunt, because he’s done it in the big leagues. And then Brandon hit it somewhere- anywhere! My God- we leave in a rookie who looked absolutely lost trying to bunt, and then let another rookie strike out….of course there is no guarantee anyone else would have done differently, but we would at least have given ourselves the BEST opportunity to win…very much like the previous reliever discussion…….That’s what drives me crazy, and I got to wonder if the players don’t feel at least a little like we do…that Leyland is not making the best decisions? I dunno.

Gotta take the next 3- it won’t be easy but we can do it! Go Tigers

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