Santiago update

Separated left shoulder. They’ll have it X-rayed in Detroit tomorrow to determine the extent, but it’s pretty much certain he’s headed for the disabled list. Though Santiago said it was feeling better Wednesday, it’s going to feel worse the next couple days.

As for the game, well, it sounds like a broken record.

“Our offense basically has stunk,” Jim Leyland said afterwards. “I’m not upset about it, but I’m befuddled by it. Our offense has stunk.”

26 Comments

Bummer about Santiago.. It absolutely has to be Hessman or Clevlen brought up.. please.. i’m begging you.

Clevlen homered again tonight.

Hessman just hit his 21st homerun…

While it’s true someone will have to replace Santiago, I wouldn’t pin hopes on a Hessman or a Clevlen actually helping here. Heck, Ramon sat on the bench so much he was hardly on the roster anyway, so we should be used to going with 24 guys. When was the last time he started before today? I can’t even remember. Well, he won’t be starting anytime soon now, that’s for sure. Too bad, when he started he was usually about one third of our entire offense. Think about it.
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DavidTiger, I don’t think anyone here is going to attack you. Disagree, yes. It’s true JL isn’t the one on the field, but if it was that simple, managers wouldn’t be necessary. No, I think this all started with a poor spring training caused by a complacent attitude that “we have a good team.” Everybody from DD down to the clubhouse guys said it at one time or another. Not surprisingly, this led to struggles out of the gate. It was at this point that JL started overmanaging, from putting players in unfamiliar positions on the fly to misusing his bullpen, to bringing up untested rookies to DH. We dropped several games solely due to poor defense from the position swaps. We dropped several more from JL’s stubbornness about playing certain guys ahead of others. We dropped Tuesday night’s game beause he didn’t leave Galarraga in there as he said he’d do.
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This is an extraordinary position this team finds itself in, and the entire baseball world is stunned by it. What could have just been a crummy 0-7 start has been turned into a massive collapse, and that’s from the way the ballclub and players have been handled.
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Bear in mind that I’m writing this from the perspective of someone who’s always been a Leyland supporter, aside from the occasional fun poke at him. He’s made the situation worse.
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Now, a week from now after we’ve taken seven in a row from Cleveland and Chicago, everything will be good. Okay, I know that won’t happen. I didn’t expect this to happen either.
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–Rich

Rich,
No disagreement on your comments, but in several of these losses, no management or overmanagement was needed; just plain old clutch hitting. I do think more running attempts and hit and runs are essential right now. My comments were not to excuse Leyland, but just to point out that the luck we are creating for ourselves right now is worthless. I just feel that the Cabrera trade raised the bar so high, that even Barack Obama would havea tought time meeting expectations.
Greg

That’s a shame and a real disappointment for Ramon. I’m not sure the last time he started Rich but I know he won a game for us in NY with his bat AND his glove. I hope all goes well for him.
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On one hand I would expect they will bring up Clevlen. He has been hot, he is hitting for power and average and is a better than average fielder.
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That being said they have no backup for Renteria now. Inge is hobbled and he would be in tough at SS for anything than an emergency inning or two. Raburn, to my knowledge, doesn’t play SS or if he does I would hate to see it. Santiago getting injured today saved Raburn’s job. I would bet he would have gone to Toledo before the homestand.
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They could bring up Hollimon who plays 2nd at Toledo but is a real middle infielder. He has played short in Double A and started as **** in A ball. He’s made 3 errors this year, has 12 homers and is hitting around .250.
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Bringing Hessman up makes sense to me in that he could provide instant power but he would only complicate the lineup as he plays 3rd. And if it makes sense to me it won’t make any sense to JL.
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They also need to keep in mind that they are in trouble in the bullpen and not hitting alone.
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The team is becoming a laughing stock.

I always read all the comments. A laughing stock, hardly, unless you are not a die hard Tiger fan. Do we have some challenges, yes. Stay positive! Have I talked about throwing stikes. I just heard some thunder and saw some lighting. That is what the Tigers need. Rich, you got it, a seven game winning steak. Greg, aka know as Davidtiger. I bleed Tiger english D. Pitching, Defense, Hitting. Ya gotta believe. Go Tigers. Take lesson from the Wings!
–Dave

I felt bad for Santiago. Up to that point.. I was in disbelief.. 2 outs, and Oakland scored 6 runs with clutch hitting. And what is wrong with our bench. Is it mental?

Gee.. a little spoonful of irony..a day off for Edgar? Do you think Carlos can play short stop , or has he forgotten? Let Cabbage Patch go back to third..like he was in Florida, and for gosh sakes.. lets get it together and play decent ball.

Hey? What does anybody think of moving Todd Jones to start a game, and have Willis, and or Robertson close?

Somebody wrote that it almost seems like the players are messing up, and thankful the next time that somebody mucks up worse. It does look like that!

I guess it just proves to show the head office.. you don’t get results buy just throwing money at it. It takes patience, time, and hard work, perserverance to get there. There are a lot of good talented boys out there, dreaming of the chance to play in the bigs.
Just sad, I think that the head office is pushing Jim Leylands buttons to play thier “$135 Million dollar” players .. and he probably doesn’t have much control over letting the second string guys on the bench to play daily.
Sad.
What happened to good old time baseball?

On the bright side.. we don’t completly suck yet.. Remember the Royals were on top at opening week.. and looked like they might hold there, a new season for them? We are three off the bottom from the pond scum. I am not writing them off till then.

Guillen could be the backup at shortstop if Inge is healthy. If Inge isn’t healthy, you start looking at Holliman or Hessman. Of the two, I’d much prefer Hessman because of experience but there’s the question of options and all that.
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OR……
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There’s Clevlen, although I’m not sure what position he would be playing. If he were put in left, that puts Guillen right back at thirdbase again. A lot depends on Inge’s injury.
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On a sidenote, trying Cabrera in the 3 or 4 hole might be an experiment that’s actually worthwhile. He hasn’t produced much elsewhere in the order.
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–Rich

I figure they should bring Hessman and Clevlen up, send down Larish, put Santiago on DL.
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Between Guillen, Inge, Renteria, Polanco, Rayburn, Hessman, Cabrera, and Thames, they can hold down the infield. That’s 4 that can play 3rd, 3 that can play short, at least 2 that can play 2nd and 3 that can play 1st and you’d still have 2 good catching options.
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What position comes off the board first for the tigers today? I wonder if some highly rated hs prospect will fall into their laps for the 4th straight year.

The Tigers magic number is 37. As in 37 losses. That’s all they have left to lose if this season is to be salvaged. That leaves them needing to go 66-37 the rest of the way to get to 90 wins. That’s 29 games over .500 for a team that can barely win 2 in a row from time to time.
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I’ve followed the Tigers since 1978 when I was seven. I’ve never seen a bigger roster mess than the one that exists on this team right now. Management has backed themselves into a corner and they have no where to go. This is Leyland and Dombrowski’s mess and there’s no doubt about it. The Tigers salvaged their plans for building a long term contender in the fall when they had RAW MEAT dangled in front of their faces.
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The Marlins smartly MADE the Tigers take Dontrelle Willis in that trade. If they simply trade for Cabrera fine. But throwing Willis in the deal is just one more HUGE headache for this team to deal with. Then we have to ask why in the world would the Tigers sign Willis to a contract extension without him ever throwing an official game in a tiger uniform. Stupid management. As smart as JL and DD have been in the past, they’ve been equally dumb with some of their latest and greatest moves. Renteria is horrible! and yes Dan, VERY boring. Bottom line is that not one of the off season moves the Tigers made has worked. In fact we could argue that everyone of the moves has been a disaster (Jacque Jones, Willis, Cruceta, Renteria, and yes Cabrera). All of these guys have been major disappointments. And the sad thing is that the Tigers mortgaged their future to bring them in here.
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The question is not IF heads will role, it’s WHEN. McClendon will be the first fall guy, with Leyland going after that if things don’t improve. As for trading some of this dead weight, I’m not holding my breath. The only trade rumors I’ve seen are about our willingness to trade a starting pitcher. Yeah, let’s trade more pitching. Now that’s a winning formula!

Almonte or Worth may get to replace Santiago at SS. Hollimon is very good at 2B – but not at SS. We could use Raburn to cover 2B. Hessman may replace Larish at DH …. once in a while play 3B. Fossum may get replaced by Bautista.

Bautista probably replaces Lopez. Leyland doesn’t like Lopez.
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Right now, the bullpen is Lopez, Miner, Dolsi, Fossum, Seay, Jones, and Galarraga/Willis. Bautista, Rodney and Zumuya are coming off the DL soon. JL likes two lefties. Do the math. There are going to be unhappy people no matter what happens.
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DD and JL both like power arms………………
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–Rich

Fossum has not looked that great in his albeit brief appearances. He likely will kept around a bit longer to see if he can get LHB out. Though with a decision to be made about Galarraga and Willis I could see where they might entertain the idea of moving Robertson to the pen as we have suggested all along.
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He can’t really get the whole job done when he starts. He is usually pretty darn good for 2 innings and sometimes 3 but starts to wilt and become vulnerable to mental and physical errors after that. If they wee astute they might see the value he could bring to the bullpen.
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However, that is unlikely, isn’t it?
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Actually I would not be too surprised if JL didin’t have his predictable brainstorm of just replacing Santiago with Bautista with a “I’d rater have 13 arms than 12 right now” speech.

If Fossum was so great against lefties, then why did Leyland pull Fossum and have Miner pitch to a lefty bat in Oakland the other night??

Okay, we’re about 26 hours away from the beginning of the biggest stretch of games that we’re likely to have this year. We have a day here to regroup. So far, every single guy on this team has failed, along with the manager and every single coach. There’s not a one of them I’d want on the firing line beside me. “We all covered up in it, ain’t nobody clean” to quote Tripp in the movie “Glory.”
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Starting tomorrow, we need to see some real effort and intelligence out there. Hell, they don’t even have to win the games, just demonstrate that they can play with heart and desire. Because I’ll tell ya, if by next Thursday we see the White Sox laughing their way out of town, having once again psyched the Tigers into submission, it is OVER. And I’m not just talking this season.
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Time to ante up and kick in like men. Like MEN.
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–Rich

Yeah, guys show us you’ve got ovaries! Oops, language not masculine enough for this blog?

I don’t know, I collapsed in a heap after writing that. Had to take a nap for awhile.
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–Rich

cabrera – 1st, polanco – 2nd, renteria – short, inge – 3rd, maggs – rf, granderson – cf, thames – Lf, six man rotation.

Hey gentlemen, I have ovaries and they PI$$ even me off!!!! LOL

Interesting……Toledo has switched up Hollimon (to SS) and Almonte (to 2B) tonight. Hessman has homered again.
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No sign of Rodney tonight so I would think tomorrow he might get 2 more innings.
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jchambers–your roster looks good….on paper! The problem with those guys is translating “looks” to action. Not much option really. Inge at third doesn’t add anything offesnsively and toffense is clearly where we need an oomph right now as the starter have not been outstanding but have been doing well enough to win.
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I like Inge there too. He’s actually fun to watch in the field but not so fun to watch at the plate. I think they should give Hessman a shot at 3B, DH Guillen, give Marcus 2 weeks to prove himself in LF and bat Cabrera 3rd. Renteria is our SS now and like it or not he goes into streaks. He is due to come out of the bad one soon.
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Granderson has been hitting in tough luck and needs to start finding the gap again. As we all know very well, he is the flint that sparks the machine.

“Glory”…. probably one of my top 5 movies ever, Rich.
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I just got caught up on the last 3 games and their accompanying blogs…..WOW. This Tiger nightmare only gets worse.
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Rich, our guy Ramon finally gets the call and he gets injured? That’s just plain brutal. Inge injured too.
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I have to say I’m in complete agreement with Jeff’s blog above. He nailed it. I’m surprised no one responded…..well I’m not surprised really. Nobody likes to hear the truth. Hey Jeff, you’re just the messenger.
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I’m not superstitious, never was, but there is a poetic justice in a team failing like this after trading away prospects, and then spending a gross amount of money in an effort to buy instant success. The reality is we fans are pretty much non entities in the equation anyway. That’s about it. Anybody disagree, let’s hear your points.
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I agree Rich, next 7 games, or stick a fork in um, they’re done. The numbers just won’t be there. I think if there isn’t a dramatic turnaround within the next 15-20 games, I’d start looking for contending teams in the market for veteran players. These veterans collectively can’t seem to win games, but they might be able to help a contending team individually. At some point in time you have to admit it ain’t working, and then take your core of young players with a veteran or two and regroup.
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For now I’d just like to see the team start playing with a little pride. Have they given up already?

You are SO right about them JEFF! Absolutely agree.. unless others collapse, and our boys start doing something miraculous, then its done.. over..

Boy.. have to hand it to the Marlins.. Cabbage Patch was sold as the next thing to A-Rod cloned.. summed up to be only in the holy graces of PuJols and Vlad Guerero! Future Hall SHame! SUCKERS! And Rentadiarhea…You took him off Atlanta’s hands..Please put on your blinking hats now DD and JL! Don’t sign these guys a year ..No.. you have them for ETERNITY!! wha ha ha ha…The only one that has to be feeling pretty fortunate now, and not overworked is Todd Jones. Like How many Save opportunitys does he have to work to earn his check? snort!!! chuckle chuckle..how many pounds has he gained since they won last… Bet he worked out harder in spring training getting ready than he is now! And I worried about him being a closer.. he’s a God.. the lightning rod handed to him after Kruk retired from baseball..and those infamous words ring in my head…”Hell , I ‘m not an athlete, I am a ball player!”

And I can’t help it.. talking about them come out kicking.. ha!
Jim Leyland better go out and buy some Rogaine for the team to grow some hair on their butts and PLAY SOME REAL BALL!
Period! Nuff of this pansy DP balls, rally killing .. pop fly .. 15 picthes throw by opposing pitchers in 3 innings CRAP!
Get out there and Win a Game for crying out loud!!!

Jeff was pretty much on target, but before dumping on Cabrera, give the guy a chance. Many players don’t respond well to a big contract. It doesn’t neccesarily mean they don’t care, or don’t want to perform better.

I agree with you Steve. There’s no way to tell for sure if Cabrera will come around, but between switching leagues and learning a new position he deserves a bit of slack I believe. He may not always look “into” the game, but I’ve noticed some improvement defensively. It just seems at the plate that the weight of the expectations and huge contract are bogging him down.

Cabrera is not the problem. He is part of it, to be sure. But I think the real problem is the lack of leadership. It’s not there. With this collection of stars I think they assumed that leadership was unneccessary and that everyone would just go about their business and the team would win 2 ot 3 throughout the season.
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Leyland has not provided that leadership either. Hard to blame him for that as one would naturally think like the players, that with this group it would be unneccessary. And on top of that it is not an easy task to be the ‘boss” of veteran, overpaid stars.
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Leadership does not have to come in the form of a rah-rah guy. It can come in the form of confidence, determination, example, and dignity. Look at Niklas Lidstrom, Gary Roberts for the Pens.
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There really are no leaders on this team that I can recognize. Some might say Guillen, but Carlos is far too casual in the field which translates into being overly concerned about what he looks like rather than what he gets done. There is not that all-around intensity that one would need to be regarded as the leader.
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By nature of his experieince and his position one could expect Pudge to step forward but he is prone to selfishness and is unwilling to accept he has to change his game. Swinging at 2 out of every 3 ptiches that are hurled at you is not exactly setting a good example.
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This year may be a write-off already. We’ll have a pretty good idea of that by next Friday. If we have to start looking forward to next year then where will the leadership come from?
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Sheff? Not hardly. His ego is super-sized and the fact he marches to his own beat would preclude him from that role.
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Ordonez? Too one dimensional of a ball player and too self absorbed to be a leader.
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Polanco? Kinda quiet and too nice a guy.
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Granderson? Maybe in a couple of years when the confidence is incorporated into his personality.

I thiink it could come from, strangely enough, Cabrera. He will settle in, he is engaged in the game, has some youthful exhuberance, talent, physical skills, and I think can be intense enough to set an example for others. That will come with some more maturity. I think it was a bit intimidating for him to go to a team with guys like Ordonez and Guillen there. He has all this talent but has to kind of subordinate himself to perhaps his boyhood idols.
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As far as his hitting goes I really think that he will only realize his potential when he starts to pull the ball hard down the line and to left-center. He has not been aggressive on the inside part of the plate and seems to get a better look at the low outside stuff. Unfortunately, that is not his power zone.
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The game has changed a lot since the days of people like Harvey Kuenn, Ray Boone, Jim Bunning, George Kell, Kaline, Mickey Stanley, Bill Freehan, Trammell, Morris and Parrish.
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But teams still need leadership.

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