Renteria on foul ball

“I have to call for that,” Renteria said, “because I think I have the better angle. It was my fault, because I should have called for that ball.”

Guillen said he heard something, but he didn’t know if it was Renteria or not.

Leyland called it a fundamental play. “As soon as somebody told me it wasn’t called, I had flashbacks to Tigertown and the pop-up drill. Call three times: ‘I got it. I got it. I got it.’ That’s what we worked on. Now if somebody would’ve called it and dropped it, that’s part of the game. But the fact that we didn’t call it, somebody didn’t take charge and call it, that’s not acceptable.”

23 Comments

Hey Jason….. Sure is a good thing the Tigers don’t have Jurggens and that sloppy 2.82 era to have to worry about anymore. Especially since they acquired Renteria !!!!!! You know, the “missing piece to the puzzle !?!!?!

Mitch Berry

hi Jason, maybe you can help brandon inge start a blog, iys quite obvious we will go down this year on bad trades ie:renteria/jurgens and the need to continue playing guys that are ready to join the beer league.

i hope were not 15 behind when brandon goes back where he belongs at 3rd base and Mr. 153million finds his real home in left field.

In the blog “From the Valley of the Sun” I made a comment concerning releasing Sheffield and Thames in favor of Larish and Hessman. No one jumped down my throat about this move, especially about Thames. I know he is a nice guy, but it is obvious Leyland is not going to play him regularly to give him a chance to prove he can hit those 40 homeruns. The same scenario seems to be happening with Raburn. With the way this team has been playing…er, showing up, I believe it is time to go with the hot hands rather than the highly paid ones. This involves Joyce, Raburn, Santiago, and even Lopez. Isn’t it time to admit there is a problem and at least try something different? Can the results be any worse? At the very least they can find out if any of these bench players and minor leaguers offer some hope for improvement.

Still steaming this morning. I am so pathetic, I get myself so worked up that I had a hard time falling asleep. So very little sleep last night. I woke up in the middle of the night thinking that it was all a bad dream. That has been happening a lot lately.

DARN.
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I was so excited last night when I turned the game on and saw us winning 3-0…then I found out later that we ended up losing 4-3. That was only the 2nd game I’ve missed all season. I was so bummed. I really didn’t have my hopes high for our series against the DBacks but to come out and get some runs ahead of them…I thought maybe the DETROIT TIGERS showed up to play last night? guess not.
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Anyways… I agree…If we already are 10 games behind .500…why not let the guys play who aren’t getting playing time…what’s the worst thing that can happen, we lose?! wow. Not like it hasn’t happened before :)
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I Don’t know, but I really think that JL should take a step back and be like okay…you guys need a day of rest, go sit and we’ll put in Thames, Raburn, Santiago, Joyce…and let’s have some fun, haha. I mean see how it goes…it’s not like they’re going to stand out there and not know what to do. They’re professional baseball players.

Read that Sheffield might get the start against Randy Johnson..
Mr Leyland!!! please N.B.
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Sheffield is hitting .158 with 0 HRs and 1 RBI against LHP this year.
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N.B.
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Sheffield is a CAREER .154 hitter against Randy Johson.
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Oh and by the way, he is injured too.

I know exactly how you feel GK. I just hope that the players are losing sleep over this too.
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One thing to be concerned about is the players turning on each other. We probably all think that wouldn’t happen here.
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The Guillen experiment at 3rd has to end. Let’s put Carlos back at short and Inge at 3rd. I’ve seen all I need to see of Renteria– he can go the way of Jacque Jones. Maybe the move back to his old position will get CG swinging the bat more like we’re used to seeing. It’s not like we’re gaining power, defense, or leadership by playing Renteria. I would hate the thought of going into next year with him there anyway.

On a side note, I try to stay as optimistic as possible because I know we still have 120 games to play and we’ve seen teams come back from large deficits before. But that means we’d have to win every series now until the season ends to win 90 games. Keep the faith Tiger fans.

–ED

Okay, I finally caught up with all the posts from last night.
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I know before the season started we traded for an all star offense…WELL…how many runs has that ALL STAR OFFENSE scored this year?…the answer is 189. which is the most in ALCentral.
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However, where is the defense to back this up???? They have allowed 226 runs, which is the SECOND MOST in the MLB.
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I don’t see how anyone can think that “good” offense on its own can win games. If we don’t make the “easy” plays…such as the foul ball last night, we won’t really be able to do anything. The fielders can’t rely on good pitching to win games. We need good pitching, good offense, and good defense. AND we need them all to happen during the same game.
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Maybe they need to have a team huddle like little league kids do before they go on the field….”BIG D…NO E, 3 UP, 3 DOWN”, hahaha. Well it would at least give me a laugh anyway.

Dan, does N.B. mean what I think it does? A term often heard in spanish also? :-) So I guess we continue to see the usual suspects this weekend. That’s too bad, as it’s a good time for a shakeup.
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Getting left out of the discussion of last night’s defense is Cabrera butchering that foul pop off first. It didn’t hurt us because Bondo threw strike three on the next pitch anyway.
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That Renteria trade…………it’s going to end up making the Neifi Perez deal look like a slick move. At least Neifi’s acquisition didn’t gut the entire ballclub.
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I’m sure you all join me when I say I hate having to come in here and complain all the time. It’s not my nature. If anyone can find anything good, lay it on me. :-)
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–Rich

The only good I saw last night that Cabrera finally hit another homerun, and a crazy thing happened someone was actually on base. Typically they have all been solo shots. The other is that Bondo pitched well, and should of won hadn’t he been screwed by his teamates and Buckner.

GO WINGS.

man isnt it amazing that JL’s BIG BIG “lineup shakeup” was really only a batting order readjustment. wouldnt you think a shakup would be to bench some of the juriasics and play the bench. but i guess that is why i am not coaching at a major league level. it has been said enough about the bad trades, how the defense needs to be put back in order, but no one in the tigers management sees a problem. especially leyland, i mean he went as far to say that guillen’s throw is part of the game. well it is part of the game, but that error should be given to leyland because there was a reason CG left SS to go to 1B.

On to Sheffield, when i heard the tigers picked him up last year, i was pretty disappointed because they got him, but he had a decent year last year, but this year with his shoulder injury it is just obvious that he needs to go. for crying out loud his two home runs this year were off of off-speed pitches. if pitchers around the league just threw fast stuff, he might not even have a hit this year.

i dont know how long the upper management is going to keep telling leyland to keep those bums on the field, because you know that is what is going on. but when leyland grows a pair and manage’s how he wants to it will be too late.

GO WINGS!!!!!!!!!

AT LEAST WE HAVE A FEW GOOD TEAMS IN DETROIT

GO BLUE!

The Tigers have lost at least 6 games because of an error by the third baseman. I know that in the grandmaster scheme of things that Dave and Leyland want Brandon to be the teams future catcher, but come on! I think that Guillen and Sheffield need to take their turns on the DL and get healthy enough to contribute.

Brandon at thrid and Santiago at short would give the Tigers the best defensive left side of the infield in MLB. All along Guillen should have been at DH and Sheffield on the DL. The Tigers traded away defensive stability for offensive inability. Renteria’s bat can come alive, but you can not win games when your shortstop and thirdbaseman ranges are one step to the left and one step to the right. Look at the plays that both Santiago and Inge make. Their short comings at the plate are overstated. Both can hit situationally and play defense sensationally.

The Tigers traded for an over the hill shortstop and eratic pitcher on the decline. This will happen only once with Dave. However, this is the team they have. Sheff needs to go on the DL or retire. He knows that if he can’t do it he needs to go, but he has all that money on the line if he does.
For the Tigers to start winning constitantly the leftside of the infield needs to make more then the routine play. Trade Renteria, Place Sheff on the DL, make Carlos the DH, place Inge at Third, and Santiago at short. Too bad it isn’t this easy. At least I can do this on my playstation at home. All I can say is lets start playing some ball boys!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Like a moth attracted to a flame….. I told myself I was done complaining/agonizing…..well that’s lasted about 2 days.

“……how long upper management is going to keep telling Leyland to keep those “players” on the field, because you know that’s what is going on….interesting comment slice of ninja. You bring up a very valid question. How much latitude is being given JL? Some degree of face saving might be going on behind the scenes. Like Illich and DD figuring to ride this out to the bitter end because it was their brainchild. To change course now would look weak and indecisive..dare I say, they would look…well no more learned that us. So when JL says this or that ain’t working, we got to shake things up, he still has to work within the narrow confines of the basic “formula”. How do you bring young players up, even if they’re ready, with a roster full of classy veteran players with large contracts? It’s a problem for them.

Anyway it’s nice to see the consensus here seems to be moving to a focus…. pitching and defense.

So here’s a lineup…. for now anyway.

Santiago/Guillen SS
Polanco 2B
Ordonez/Joyce RF
Cabrera/Guillen DH
Larrish/Hessman 1B
Granderson CF
Raburn/Thames LF
Inge/Hessman 3B
Rodriguez/Inge C

I’m not so concerned with the hitting order. After the first guys listed, any other combinations would involve changing the order anyway. The one glaring problem you notice here is the absence of Carlos, who I just can’t figure out how to get in the starting lineup, unless it’s at short. But I’m trying to demonstrate an upgrade in defense first. Then in the future I would like to see Ordonez DH and either a guy like Thomas, Joyce, or even Clevelan play in right. This of course causes a log jam of DHers. And do you want to see Miguel relegated to DH… ? Another conundrum…..

Game after game, the one thing I see as a constant is that we are being outplayed in the field. Our defenders as a whole just seem incumbered compared to other teams. Who can know how many more balls could have been played with a swifter defense? It’s a part of the game that can go unnoticed. Range…. I’m not talking about errors, but just range. A hit taken away is worth more than a hit imo. I think you touched on this Rich. Anyway….ahhhhh…I feel much better now.

Whoa, Hoot! Didn’t read your post as I was putting mine together. I think we are pretty much in agreement! Problem solved. I guess Miguel will have to remain at first for now, realistically at least. That leaves room for Carlos to DH. Dan, maybe Larrish never gets his chance but we could (listen to me….WE) we could still bring up Hessman.

Playstation, Hoot? If only JL could bump up the sliders on Guillen’s throwing arm and turn off injuries so Sheffield would be healthy. :-)
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I’m feeling sorry for Leyland. I realize he’s getting paid good money to endure this headache, but I still feel badly for him. Perhaps upstairs is dictating who he plays, I don’t know. But while we’re all screaming for changes, he’s looking around the clubhouse and seeing all these players who are supposed to be stars, and must be totally befuddled. It probably doesn’t make sense to him to replace any of them. I mean, think about it. HOWEVER……….this team needs role players. They need athletic quickness. They need to field a few guys who don’t have big contracts locked up. That’s the very basis of a baseball team. Tell me if you’ve witnessed this phenomenon: I watch the Tigers so much that I find myself shocked when I see an opposing infielder make a quick and lively play. I’m not just referring to the Tony Pena Jrs of the world either, I mean everybody we play seems like they’re playing in zero gravity, while our guys lumber around.
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Anyway, one more negative here. I have a feeling that Galarraga is due for a really bad start. He hasn’t pitched in I don’t know how many days and he’s due for some difficulty. Tonight could be ugly. You might want to activate a parental lock if you have children.
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And one positive: this is exactly what happened to the Yankees last year. Remember how people actually were almost feeling sorry for them? Then they make the playoffs anyway. You just never know.
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–Rich

Marty, this is happening too much. You and I are writing nearly the same things at the same time. Maybe we’re twins separated at birth? :-)

–Rich

In our baseball assessments anyway Rich. Not sure you want to admit to being twins…. You can dress me up but you can’t take me anywhere:)

hey marty, thanks for cleaning up my english, i really dont think they are bums, that was my frustration talking. because i know that i could not go out there and do 1/100 of the job that they do.

i see how we can get a logjam of DHer’s. i mean there is hessman, Maggs, Cabrera, Guillen, there comes a point were you have to let some go to bring in new talent you know, like how you think Joyce or Cleven could play in right field. but before we go trading and replacing, we need to find a formula that helps us win now.
i mean how long is pudge gonna be around, and isnt he a free agent after this year, and if he is, should we put him on a trade block and see what kind of pitching we could get for him. because he might not sign a contract again, then we cant get anything for him.

i wish it was a easy as playstation =)

Next year we’lle see a totally different complexion to this team–win or lose.
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Realistically we are stuck iwth Pudge, Renteria and (I hate saying this) Guillen this year. Sheffield they can turf on to the DL. If there is a team that unequivocally needs a shortstop they could trade Renteria but I doubt that scenario..
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So based on what we have and are likely to keep and the willingness to ear a little crow.

C Pudge
1B Cabrera
2B Polanco
SS Renteria/Santiago
3B Hessman
LF Raburn/Joyce
CF Granderson/ Inge (occasionally)
RF Ordonez
DH Guillen

-Use Miners’s remaining option and bring up Blaine Neal
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-When Rogers gets hurt bring up Eddie Bonine
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-Much as I hate to say it, trade Thames. They might actually get something in return.
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Another alternative is to switch Guillen and Cabrera again. I still think Guillen can play a very decent 1B. The most difficult throw he will have to make is 85 ft to 2nd.
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Next year they simply need a marquee power LHB in the lineup. A Fielder, a Texiera, a Howard. a Markakis. a McLouth, a Hamilton, a McCann, even a Berkman.
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All the fantasy aside I know what we will get. We’ll get Sheffield in LF tomorrow against the Big Unit.
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And we’ll get a profound stubborness from Jim Leyland.

Rich, you and I have the most in common. I said in a previous post that eveyone gave on on the yankees 3 times last year. It is a marathon. Carlos is not a 3rd baseman and maybe not a 1st baseman, but he can hit. Maybe someone wants our Renteria for a relief pitcher? We watch our Tigers because they are fun when they are winning. Now if we have sonething else to do, we will check out the box score in the morning. I will never give up on my Tigers because I know they will hit and they will also pitch. I just hope they can play defense. Does defense win games? Going out tonight in the city that Amway built, Grand Rapids. I am sure the Tigers will be on TV at some place we will be.
Go Tigers!
–Dave

Lets not judge the Renteria trade until Edgar’s contract expires and he leaves Detroit.

Until that date-in-time, some around the Tigers still feel that Jair’s arm will encounter major structural troubles.

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