Tigers pick up option on Pudge

I’m good with it. He can be frustrating at the plate, but he’s one of the guys now. The details will be interesting.

I like Pudge and am glad he’s back– just don’t like the amount of money we’re paying. If Illitch can afford it, its fine by me. Besides, the other options weren’t all that palatable.

Attention should turn to the shortstop position. I’ve gone back and forth on it but am going to take a stand: The Tigers should take a serious run at A-Rod and move him back to shortstop. He doesn’t bat left handed but I don’t think it matters. I know– its a pipe dream and an expensive one at that. Still– I think they should make a run at it… thoughts?

It’s up to Mr. Ilitch, of course, but I would absolutely sign Alex Rodriguez if he was available and it was feasible. This guy is the best player of his time, and we need a shortstop and more homerun power to boot. I think he’d fit in just fine, much as Sheffield did. I haven’t seen any problems with him.

Regarding the dimensions of Yankee Stadium vs Comerica, there are two issues. First, Comerica is actually smaller in the places where a power hitter would hit the ball. I don’t think A-Rod makes his living hitting 320-foot homers down the leftfield line. Second, and more important, Yankee Stadium only has one more year of existence. I have no idea what the dimensions of the new park will look like.

He may be too expensive. So were Brett Hull, Chris Chelios, Sergei Federov, and the rest of the Russian national team that signed with Detroit and Mr. Ilitch.

I vote a firm yes if it came to that.

GREAT HOT STOVE STUFF!
I’m going to be a contrarian. I loved having AROD on my fantasy baseball team this year. However, for the real Tigers I’m going to vote no. Too many eggs in one basket. AROD is such a “huge” player he can’t go anywhere without disappointing people. He just creates his own pressure to fail. I’m convinced one of the main reasons he did so well this year, is he made up his mind after last years debacle he was gone from Gotham city and that took the pressure off. Also, don’t count your chickens on him doing so well on a move back to SS. No doubt he can still run the bases, but he looks bigger, more muscular(hmm????)and less agile than he was in Texas.

Also, sometimes I think this chemistry thing is overrated, but in this case I think it comes into play. Not necessarily the way you think. I agree with whoever said that AROD does have class. He’d be no clubhouse problem but the media would make over him so that others would be distracted from what they’ve been able to do for the Tigers. We’ve become a winner because everyone has a part and the parts fit, not because we had ONE giant star.

Wow, someone had a real interesting opinion. This is the first time since I can remember that I heard someone suggest a player should leave the Yankees to go somewhere they can win! Baby if you’re as great as AROD, and you can’t WIN in NYY, you ain’t winning anywhere else either. Maybe, you ain’t a winner afterall.

I’ll close with a comparison, now if you could get JETER here, there is a winner and a leader and we have no leaders. Not that we get Jeter, just want to contrast him with AROD to make a point.

So the defense rests, no to AROD.

Here’s the million dollar question: would Jim Leyland want A-Rod? I’ll give you two seconds to formulate your answer.

Okay, call me a prude, but I bleed Royal Blue prude, and that consists of first class.

In the early season when ARod did the yelling, and their fielder dropped the ball, Toronto fans and press were pretty upset. As best I can remember, ARod’s wife wore the shirt to the stadium during that series, basically saying “f—u to the fans. ARod indeed has the most talent ever probably, but I don’t see him as a good match for our team.

… or if not at the press, at the fans who were heckling them about the press coverage…

matt

I also meant to say that in my opinion it still shows a lack of class.

Good points on both sides. Myself, I have to wonder how much coverage any of this gets if he’s not in New York.

Okay, he’s done two on field things I didn’t care for. One was the above mentioned distracting the Toronto infielders incident. I thought that was kind of little league and poor judgement on his part. Some things, while legal, you just don’t do in the big leagues. I’d call it more “not cool.” The other was the ball slapping incident in the 2004 playoffs with Boston. Okay, he tried it, he got caught on it, but what I didn’t like was the way he stood out there, arms spread wide in protest, as if saying “what did *I* do?” Drove the New York crowd into a frenzy, which is the last thing they need during these series, more frenzy. I guess this could be called a lack of class. Childish behavior in both events, for sure. David, if you’ve got 4th graders you know what I mean.

I’d still sign him, though, and hope the class of the Tiger organization would rub off on him. If it starts from the top, Mr. Ilitch has more class in his little finger than Steinbrenner has in his entire body.

a-rod ain’t a Tiger he’s a Yankee

we have Santiago to play SS we don’t need a-rod and we don’t need to pay them $$ there either. pencil in Santiago at SS and let’s look at pitching

Great point Rich! I had never thought of the point of calling Mr. Ilitch by his Title. We always talk about “George” who was buffooned by George Costanza. I’m sorry I can’t get over this thing called class, but can you imagine Leyland being threatened with his job while a playoff series is still going. ARod is the face of this organization called the Yankees, and as far as I’m concerned, he can stay there;
Our guys had enough class to call in Casey and be up front about next year. You might say we dumped on Dimitri last year; talk to him, and he will tell you that he was not “right” last year. Arod is an individual superstar; Placido Polanco is the consomate team player with tons of class.

Santiago at SS… please, we’re not going to make it into the playoffs with that guy in our lineup as a everyday player

Well Ty……..I’ve been thinking this all along. I thought I’d be hooted off the blog, so I tried to make it sound like I was joking about it. Since you mention it, however, all those clues you just posted, I’ve seen those too.

Now THIS is hot stove talk!!!!

The Mets need a power OF bat and a starter. We could use Reyes.

Bonderman and Santiago?

or Thames, Robertson and Santiago?

We would need something else too

ARod and all the rest of the fire power in NY could not make up for the Yankees’lack of pitching. He’s not coming to Detroit anyway. (Now when he does you can all laugh at that prediction.)

Our Tigers need pitching. The young arms are going to have to step up. It would be a huge plus if Kenny Rogers made a come back to compliment them. Now I think picking up Andy Pettitte would make more of an impact than ARod, and for a lot less money. But I doubt he leaves da Yanks. A LH power bat would be great whether he was a LF or 1B. Dunn has the power but I’m not impressed with his career .248 average. Plus I’m kinda tired of watching people strike out. I know Thames is not the LHB, but couldn’t he do as well over a full season? Safe to say we’ll never see that experiment.

I wouldn’t be too quick to deal away solid role type players either. Maybe Santiago isn’t the everyday SS, but he’s still a valuable guy to have around. I agree with you on Santiago, Nap. Not every team has a power hitting/high average/RBI SS anyway…wait a minute, WE had one….Guillen. If only Casey could hit just 20 HRs, we wouldn’t be having this discussion. I miss the guy already.

Anybody got a pick in the league championship series? I don’t have a rooting interest in either league, but I’ll make my choices.

In the AL, Cleveland. I think Sabathia and Carmona for four games will do it. Some Boston fans think they have an edge from taking 5 of 7 this season, but I checked back. The afore mentioned Cleveland hurlers faced the Red Sox only once each, and both games were 1-0. Cleveland will find a way to win those close ones.

The NL looks like a pair of clones, but I guess I’ll go with Colorado since they’ve been so hot. The layoff could hurt them, though. Remember the Tigers last year before the WS.

AL – Boston in 7
NL – Rockies in 5

World Series – Boston in 6

Beckett is going to be a monster, I don’t think he’ll lose a game.

Actually, I have rooting interests in both of these teams. Living here in Red Sox Nation, I long ago adopted the Sox as my second AL team (a distant second, mind you) and my wife’s family is from Colorado, so the Rockies are my NL team.

matt

Got a little story for you all. I was at the Kennedy Center in Washington DC last night for the Mark Twain Award for Humor, which was being presented to Billy Crystal. The list of celebrity presenters on hand read like a who’s who.
Bob Costas

Robert De Niro

Danny Devito

Jimmy Fallon

Whoopi Goldberg

Jon Lovitz

Rob Reiner

Martin Short

Barbara Walters

Robin Williams

among others.

At one point, a tall black haired gentleman in a very sharp suit, someone not on the announced guest list, walked on stage and said “Hello, my name is Joe Torre.” Well, of all the above named celebs (other than the honoree Crystal), it was Torre who got a partial standing ovation.

Make of it what you will, I just thought I’d share that.

==”Torre should just go MIA from the meetings next week in FL with Stein and tell him to take the job and shove it up his candy arsh!”

well put

why so much worry over playing Santiago at SS? He was excellent defensively and hit .284

I’m more than a little worried about Sheffie’s shoulder, and how Kenny is at and really rather ticked they let Casey go

in the pitching dept. some of them new gus threw some better ball than the old mainstays and we gotta look at that too

Rayburn got his stripes in my book anyway and it will be interesting to see who land that LF spot. I like outfielders who can MOVE and make superb catches….like Grandy!

Oh by the way now that Cleveland has knocked off the evil Yankees I hope they get their collective as###es kicked by Boston. I hate that team. I think that they are the luckiest son of a guns and I really really don’t think that they were as good of a team that we were capable of being injuries aside. And I get so sick of hearing those bandwagon fans on other sites I could scream.

I kinda feel the same way about the Rockies and the Diamondback lucky, lucky lucky. So that race is a draw for me, Rockies I guess.

Boston wins the World Series in 6

Someone (Dan?) commented that pudge isn’t a productive #6 hitter. I agree. I love Pudge, but his .280 or whatever is a weak .280, if you ask me. I’m really glad he is back, but I would like to see him either change his approach or move down in the batting order.

I agree that A-Rod would never come here. Would I take him if he would? I guess you would have to if he fell into your lap, but just how many championships has he helped win?

That sounded a bit harsh. I meant one more starter with near Verlander like stats. Cleveland had 2 and Boston had 2 anyway.

On the hot stove front, we really just have to guard against doing anything stupid. Don’t you think we are dealing from a position of strength? I do.

Really if we did nothing, and just were healthy all year, we’d win 95-98 and be right in it. Therefore anything we do that moderately improves us helps a ton.

So lets stop being ******* for the ATRAIN and a quick fix. It really isn’t broken, we have a ton in the pipeline, and good ownership/management.

Instead of wasting our time on ARODzilla, lets pick up a decent veteran pitcher, who with this offense will win 14-16. It might be Rogers if he’s healthy enough. You get my drift? We just need tweaking, not an overhaul of the whole engine.

Watching the NLCS tonight. I don’t care who wins, but I hope it stretches out some. Arizona does have a couple favorites of mine. One is Livan Hernandez, who did some good pitching over here for the Nationals in 2005. The other is good ol’ Tony Clark, a former Tiger and one of the nicest guys in all of baseball.

We’ve often discussed Joe Buck and Tim McCarver. Last night, the obvious fix suddenly occurred to me and I don’t know why I didn’t think of it before. You have to have a surround sound system, but if so, you pipe the game through that then turn the volume on the center channel all the way down. This effectively eliminates the play by play while still leaving the game sounds loud and clear. Soon as I did that, I felt like I was sitting in Fenway and my enjoyment of the game increased 110%. I think we’ve all seen enough of Cleveland and Boston that anything those two say is not needed or important.

I am not sure what I would like to post about, but just wanted to get back in the swing of the board for the beginning of the week (since I only have internet access at work).

Other than that, a few posts above made me scratch my head, mostly by bloggers I haven’t seen that much from over the course of the season…

As far as the playoffs, I was up late the other night watching the BoSox and Indians. It was about 12:30-something and was dead tired form the week and had to fold for the night. Next morning I noticed the Indians put a Yahoo stompin’ on the Sox in extra inning….arrrrrr….

Marty – I agree with you. I also enjoy watching Ortiz and Manny, always have. Ortiz is Ortiz…but Manny has this presence in the batters box that I just love to see…it is almost like a “just bring it” attitude….

Anyway….on to getting SOME work done I suppose….ugh! I can’t stand it here…if anyone knows of any jobs anywhere but in Cleveland, let me know, gotta escape these C-Town fans. Seriously.

So the Cleveland idiots won the game the other night, hopefully if there is a baseball god they will not make it past this round.

I really didn’t know who I wanted to cheer for in the NLCS but I was talking to my father and they live and I grew up near Big Rapids Michigan. The Manager of the Rockies was born and grew up in Big Rapids, Michigan. That for me is as good of a reason as any. A hometown boy. Go Rockies go Red Soxs.

I just made the mistake of listening to Buck and McCarver. These two have spent the last half hour campaigning for Francona to start Beckett in game four. If there is to be any controversy over this decision, the Terrible Twosome did their part to stoke it. Prior to that, they accused the plate umpire of widening his strike zone which caused Manny to hit into a doubleplay. This on top of their inexcusable behavior last year in interjecting themselves into the Series with the pine tar thing. These are supposed to be play by play guys, not columnists. They should be fired immediately. Any hatred I have is directed at these two, not the teams.

I’m going back to the no play by play setup now. My mistake to have not done it sooner this evening.

I completely agree Rich. Buck and McCarver are embarrasingly bad. I know a lot of fans and everyone can’t stand them. Why the heck are we stuck listening to these bums each October? I just don’t get it.

If I had to get rid of one, it would be McCarver. He’s awful. Buck can be okay but he plays way too much into all of the extraneous stuff outside of the game. Every once in a while, they bring in a major leaguer who talks about what pitch he’d be looking for in a specific count or some other interesting baseball related comment and I have to ask myself, why don’t the announcers make such interesting comments? I think they’re too focused on what the players wives are wearing or who’s dad is sick. I wanna watch the game and like to learn nuances of the game from those announcing it. Is that too much to ask?

Yes– I know I was raised on Ernie and I’m spoiled.

I liked the commercials where the two comic “Joe Buck want-a-bees” were following him around…more like stalking him, basically just to rub shoulders. The two dupes actually operated under the misguided delusion that this was normal behavior. Touching his throat and asking him to say “Swing and a miss”. That concept to me is funny. Playing into the humor was that he graciously went along with them. My point…gees I’ve forgotten…..oh yeah…Joe Buck gets to do what he does because of his voice and his appearance. It’s kind of “form over substance”.
I don’t have that big a problem with him but yes substance is always better than form. I confess I even used to like McCarver years ago just because he was analytical. He did have some insight into the game, though it gets filtered through his own experiences, or perceived experiences. Over the years you begin to wonder how much of that analysis is real and how much is McCarver. Plus, you do just get tired of hearing him. Yeah Brent, ERNIE is the best, and that, we Tiger fans know, is filtered through truth:-)

What I find interesting about the so-called Indian fans is that they don’t show up in great numbers until the playoffs. Bandwagon (a lot of them) as far as I am concerned. Too bad they didn’t support their club all season. I really didn’t think that they would make it past Boston, and I know that it is not over yet, but it is sure looking good for Cleveland.

Tim McGarver drives me nuts, the guy is aweful sportscaster. It is almost painful to listen to him and his inaccuracies. And it also drove me crazy last night when right before Casey Blakes homerun he was about to talk about a conversation that Francona had with the umpire between inning about Paul Byrd and something I believe with his delivery. Then Blake hit the homerun and they mentioned it an inning later but never said what it was about. Did anyone else notice that, and wonder when they would actually say what they were going to?? I myself have wondered about Paul Byrds double pump delivery he uses sometimes and wondered about the Balk?? I guess that we will never find out.

==>”He throws strikes and doesn’t walk anybody, making them hit their way on,”

I think the way the game is today that is the way to coach the pitchers

if ya let the batters work the count they wear yer started out in 3 innings. welll ok, tough guy goes 5.

then they start on your bull pen.

we been there. done that.

now it’s time to get rid of CH

Rich, I waded through most of those blogs. Good to see other team’s complain as much as we do. They certainly got progressively cynical as the game progressed to the point where they were ready to get rid of more than half the team! I know they were under a lot of stress…:-)…after getting behind 7-0 but the conversations just regressed into a lot of whining. Yes, we do it here but not to that degree I don’t think.. And we generally show more respect towards the players…wellllll…most of the time anyway. The difference between Tiger fans and Red Sox fans at least at this exact point in baseball history is that we Tiger fans are more appreciative of what we have. We seem to appreciate our players more. The Red Sox Nation, as they call themselves,(we’re more of the “Tiger Family”) judging by bloggers only, have become very expectant and intolerant of failure over the last few years. I’m not blaming them or judging them. It’s human nature really. The Red Sox have, what, the second largest payroll in baseball? You look at their team and have to wonder how they did so well during the course of the season. Crisp, Drew, Pedroia, Lugo, even Varitek are not looking that good. They have 2 stars on their pitching staff, Beckett and Papalbon, and obviously Schilling is still decent and so is Dice K, but this doesn’t look like a dominant staff to me. The whole team has, in my opinion, definitely more questions going into the off season than the Tigers have. And they are locked into some pretty inflated salaries. But Rich, you’re right. No one is giving Cleveland enough credit. This is a team that our Tigers will have to deal with in the next few years at least. Fortunately, a healthy Tiger team even with no changes is, I believe, at least as good as Cleveland.

Maybe Boston will surprise everyone in the next 3 games but you have to doubt there is really even a remote chance outside of a baseball miracle for a repeat of 2004. You know what, Cleveland and Colorado would be a very interesting series. They are both very hungry and I assume Colorado is young like Cleveland. Might be intriguing.

Boston and New York have an easier division, IMO. I think it would be a great boon to MLB if the Baltimore Orioles would begin to compete. Great baseball town, good history, excellent facilities. There’s just been too much Yankees/Red Sox and we’re getting bored with it. I much prefer the Central Division where a team can come from nowhere (Detroit, Cleveland, Chicago) to win it all and just as quickly bomb (Chicago). That keeps things interesting.

Nap, interesting what you said about Sabathia. CC himself said that, after watching Byrd, he wanted to attack the hitters more. Tomorrow night could also be interesting.

Regarding pitching coaches, I don’t know. I wonder how much of a difference it makes. Look at Leo Mazzone, who looked like a genius when he had Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz all those years, and just got fired from Baltimore after two seasons. I’ve seen one pitching coach in all my years that made a striking impact, and that was Johnny Sain. The problem with Sain, however, was that he didn’t work well with the manager, and his tenures remained short lived because of it.

In this day and age, I think pitchers do just about everything wrong, but it’s the way the game is played now. I will say that if the high strike zone was brought back, you’d see a huge increase in pitching quality. But I guess people don’t want that, or at least the powers that be think that people don’t want that.

==>”Kenny Rogers is our version, well when he’s healthy. But it is a “gift” to be able to throw accurately with good ball movement and constant velocity change”

how many pitchers can throw like Kenny { when he’s on his game? }

I think most guys are gonna be better off to just get up there and throw strikes.

Jair come up and threw a good game for us and right after that game he said “I just let them get themselves out”

even Jonsey is talkin’ “ya gotta go after the hitters”

ya let them hitters work the count and guess what: they got ya.

and right after they finish you off they go after yer bullpen

and guess what: it’s a long hot summer!

“Save an arm, throw a strike-ball”

==>”Also, I made the mistake of comparing Rogers to Byrd rather than Byrd to Rogers.
??

not sure what ya tryin’ to get at there. what’s the difference?

==>”Byrd is not the pitcher Kenny is. Not even close”

Byrd threw a good game against Boston and has thrown very well in the post season.

so tryin’ to say “he ain’t” don’t make nothin’ Byrd is a good pitcher. Different style, yes.

but guess what: could be his style is more effective.

for the pitcher to think he’s suppose to get hitters out is wrong thinking. the infield and the outfield are there for that. and ya get a hitter out on one pitch if he’ll pop up or ground out and on a ground ball you can get 2 for the price of one . Tribe got 2 for 1 3 times in the last game and that helped them to win.

but we are talking about the Art of Pitching at the MLB level

ain’t easy

ain’t supposed to be

challenge the hitter. make him put the ball in play. make him hit it but don’t give him nothin’ he can slam

a ground out is best

Trible got what 21 ground outs in game 4 vs Boston?

yeah.

sometimes old thinking has to go in the junk can

As an update to the Torre-Watch:

By Associated Press- 10/18

NEW YORK (AP) –

Joe Torre rejected a $5 million, one-year contract to return as manager of the New York Yankees on Thursday.

Torre, who had held the job since 1995, made an unannounced trip from New York to the team’s spring training complex in Tampa, Fla., accompanied by general manager Brian Cashman and chief operating officer Lonn Trost. Yankees president Randy Levine said Torre turned down the offer during the meeting, which lasted about one hour.

“It is now time for the New York Yankees to move forward,” Levine said.

Torre made $7.5 million this year, the final season of a $19.2 million, three-year contract. His new deal would have included substantial bonuses for each round of the playoffs the team reached.

“We felt we needed to go to a performance-based mode,” Levine said. “We thought it was very fair. It clearly was at the top of the market, but we respect Joe’s decision.”

Bench coach Don Mattingly is the leading contender to replace Torre. Yankees broadcaster Joe Girardi, the NL Manager of the Year with Florida in 2006, is another top contender.

Cashman said there will be a full search for a replacement.

Just 10 days ago, the Yankees were bounced out of the first round of the playoffs for the third straight year.

If if was any other team, I would say this is insulting. But I guess we have to take into consideration who we are talking about. And that would be the Yankees.

If you continue with this line of thought, I think this is a fair offer. He obviously can’t expect to make more when he hasn’t ‘gotten the job done’ as far as NY fans and the Steiny is concerned.

If I were him, I would like at it, like, hey I need to go out and get the ‘job done’ as they want me too and if I do I will be bankin like a ****.

Plus, Torre is old – he doesn’t need that extra few millions – that is, unless he really plans to be going through the Depends in the years to come.

A followup to my earlier comment on the contract offer made to Joe Torre: I just viewed Joe’s press conference and he himself called the offer an insult. As if the Yankee organization needs anymore reason to cause us normal everyday fans to hate them, they do this. The Steinbrenners must stay up nights dreaming up ways to be even more obnoxious. I hope their ballplayers, and they do have some good guys on that team, all leave and go someplace, anyplace, where they’re treated with respect.

The obvious key to this series was the overall failure of their top two starting pitchers. Sabathia pitched a passable game in #5, but Carmona was a total dud. They did get more than I would have expected from Westbrook.

Skinner failing to wave Lofton home looked like a coach that was too tight in the situation. No luck involved there, the guy screwed up. Boston is a good club, but they aren’t this good. They exposed Cleveland for what they were, and demonstrated how to exploit their weaknesses, something all AL clubs should do next year.

After their big party summer, in the end I think it will just go down as another postseason failure by Cleveland.

Yeah I think Cleveland’s luck finally ran out. My favorite moment from the game last night had to be the homer off Betancourt. He drives me nuts taking a minute to throw each pitch. Also as much grief as everyone gives Inge for his hitting there were a couple tough plays that Blake missed last night that I thought Brandon would have made look easy. Go Tigers

I’m still lobbying for Fukudome:

Top 3 Free Agents in Japan and excerpted from MLB Rumors.com

1. Kosuke Fukudome, Dragons. Left-handed hitting outfielder from the Dragons in Nagoya. Can play any outfield position, but probably best in right. A solid, no-nonsense type player, with a terrific glove and sound arm, he’s the best Japanese position player in either league. Absolutely no secret about this guy.

2. Hiroki Kuroda, RHP, Hiroshima Carp. This fellow is probably a number three or four starter in the big leagues. Was 12-8 this season in 26 starts with a 3.56 ERA. A free agent last year, he decided to stay in Japan by signing a four-year deal with the Carp, but with a clause therein that allows him to test the waters when he so desires. He’s probably going to do so now. The Carp just announced that his arm was okay after a medical exam in the United States.

3. Masahide Kobayashi, RHP, Chiba Lotte Marines. This closer was the number one draft pick by the Chiba Lotte Marines in 1999. He may be the best available reliever on the free agent market, though he has not made the sort of overtures about wanting to leave Japan as the other two. During the recent playoffs in Japan, his manager, Bobby Valentine, noted that Kobayashi keeps “looking better every time out.”

Well me personally I have no great reason to cheer for one team over the other. I do like the idea of the underdog winning, someone who has never won before and besides Clint Hurdle was born and raised in Big Rapids Michigan and went to Ferris, so I figure I will cheer for the hometown guy. My uncle said that he remembers watching him play in highschool and college. Hurdle is just a few years older than my uncle. Hometown guy makes good, that is good enough reason for me to cheer on the Rockies. But I have to say to me it is a really big WHATEVER.

And regarding the Indians, I gotta say I was so happy when they lost, then a felt guilty for rooting against them, but it only lasted for a second. Then I was like YES.

Rich – For your info..

Kosuke Fukudome. Bats Left, Throws Right. Height 6′ 0″, Weight 187 lb

Ah, thanks Ty. That’s a good site. I was trying to look up this stuff and work at the same time. Not good.

I am wondering how his HR power would translate to the American League. I have the impression you may get 20 homers, maybe. It would take care of that LH outfield spot, though.

Fukudome sounds like a domed stadium the 1970s Oakland Raiders would have played in.

So for an additional outfielder, we all know the choices are slim. What is your take on the following.

Shannon Stewart – 33 yr.

G – 146

H – 167

HR – 12

BA – .290

Jayson Werth – 28 yr.

G – 94

H – 76

BA – .298

I am NOT one way or another with these guys, but we need some Hot Stove talk going on here…(we all know they won’t go to Asia to recruit players)

The way I see it (which is not the way the Tigers will see it), your benchmark is Marcus Thames. You have to make a move that will be an upgrade from Marcus, otherwise why do it? That would shoot down your two guys there, Ty, and yes this is for hot stove talk as you mentioned.

Brent, your comments on Fukudome is where I was headed on that. I don’t think you get much long ball clout. This team has a real need for a lefthanded buster, maybe even a guy with a .260 BA. A lefthanded Thames. All of our other guys hit for average and extra bases, so I’d like to complement that with some real power from that outfield spot. I know, I’m preaching to the choir here.

Hot Stove League: Is Jeremy Bonderman taking lessons from high school pitchers in Pasko on how to throw a 3rd pitch?

How about Bonderman?

Anyway–this is post 100 how about a new thread Jason? It’s getting hard to pull the scroll bar down!!!

Bondo is a concern. Tons of raw talent and if he just had the personality that would allow him to improve himself he could be awsome. Great slider and decent fastball but really has nothing else.
Watching Jiminez yesterday here is a guy with a 4 really good pitches.

If Bondo is unwilling to develop himself for the good of the team he should be dealt off. He will only hurt us if his arrogance goes unchecked.

I’d like to see one guy out there too. As much as I like Marcus I don’t think he is the answer. What I would like to see for him is a situation much like Carlos Pena found. He deserves it and I think, that like Carlos, would benefit personally from a chance of scene.

If they don’t find a LHB outfielder then I think they will give Raburn a decent shot at the job and will likely start a hope and dream program for Jason Perry down in Toledo.

The priority will obviously be finding ****.

Good stuff here.

There is a cultural aspect when looking to sign a Janpanese player, I would think. How Japanese-friendly is the city? I think of Seattle, San Francisco, New York, etc. I have no idea where Detroit stands in this. I’d also expect him to sign with a team who’s already gotten some Nippon players.

Nick Markakis, love him. The Orioles would be idiots to part with him, but they’ve proven themselves to be idiots (read Angelos) over the past few years. He’s a guy you can build a franchise with, but I’m not sure if Angelos has any interest in franchise building. This is a place, you recall, that had it’s own version of the “Millen Man March” last September. It was called “Free the Birds.” Anyway, nice little pipe dream. Or should I say hot stove dream?

We’re going to be analyzing Mr. Bonderman plenty, myself included. I guess we can be pretty certain he’ll be here next year, and we’ll have to see how that goes. Your Opening Day Starter, at this point, is obviously Justin Verlander.

I’m not comfortable with depending on Raburn as a starter. Ryan makes a dandy utility man, something any team needs, and I’d like to see him return in that role. He can be very popular in Detroit, if he’s not already.

If the Red Sox complete a sweep, we’ll be that much closer to gaining some answers to things.

JT–here’s a “starter’:
Starting pitchers

Tony Armas (30) – $5MM mutual option for ’08

Kris Benson (33) – $7.5MM club option for ’08

Paul Byrd (37) – $8MM club option for ’08

Shawn Chacon (30)

Roger Clemens (46)

Matt Clement (33)

Bartolo Colon (35)

Josh Fogg (31)

Casey Fossum (30)

Freddy Garcia (32)

Tom Glavine (42)

Livan Hernandez (33)*

Jason Jennings (29)

Joe Kennedy (29)

Byung-Hyun Kim (29)

Brian Lawrence (32)

Jon Lieber (38)

Kyle Lohse (29)

Rodrigo Lopez (32)

Greg Maddux (42) – $8.75MM player option or $11MM club option for ’08

Eric Milton (32)

Tomo Ohka (32)

Russ Ortiz (34)

Odalis Perez (31) – $9MM club option for ’08

Andy Pettitte (36) – $16MM player option for ’08

Kenny Rogers (43)

Curt Schilling (41)

Carlos Silva (29)

Julian Tavarez (35) – $3.85MM club option for ’08

John Thomson (34)

Brett Tomko (35) – $4.5MM mutual option for ’08

Steve Trachsel (37) – $4.75MM club option for ’08

Jeff Weaver (31)

David Wells (45)

Kip Wells (31)

Randy Wolf (31) – $9MM club option for ’08

Jamey Wright (34)

Jaret Wright (32)

There are some good pitchers, along with some real dogs, on that list.

Andy Pettitte brings the entire package. The experience, the work ethic, and the talent. Plus he’s “only” 36. It’s my guess that Andy will want to leave New York now, since there’s no Roger or Joe, but if so, he’s likely to return to Texas. Would he pitch for the Rangers? At any rate, I’d make a hard push for Andy if I was driving the bus.

From MLB Rumors.com:

“A-Rod Aftermath

Lost in the shuffle of Alex Rodriguez’s opt-out media frenzy – the Yankees should be able to snag some nice draft picks for him. They’ll undoubtedly offer him arbitration, and he’ll decline that offer. If that does happen and he’s signed by the Cubs, Tigers, Mets, Angels, or Red Sox, the Yankees will get that team’s first-round pick. The Giants and Dodgers’ first round picks are protected however.

Joel Sherman names the Angels, Dodgers, Cubs, Mets, Red Sox, and Tigers as teams to watch in this bidding war. Kat O’Brien adds the White Sox to the mix, while Peter Abraham adds the Giants. My best guess is the Halos.”

The biggest plus to signing A-Rod would be that Pudge would be able to bat no higher than seventh. The Tigers would also lead a lot of games 3-0 in the first inning.

1. Granderson

2. Polanco

3. A-Rod

4. Ordonez

5. Sheffield

6. Guillen

7. Pudge

8. Thames/Raburn platoon

9. Inge

Ordonez might hit .400 if the Tigers signed A-Rod as well. That lineup would be more fearsome than pretty much any other in baseball. The Tigers should win over 100 games if they had A-Rod. Too bad it ain’t gonna happen. Nice to dream, though…

I think it’s difficult to solidly come down on one side or the other with an issue like this. On the one hand, who wouldn’t want to see a lienup like that everyday? On the other hand, it certainly would change the team dynamic, and that’s what worries me. As far as payroll, I don’t want to shortchange the others because of it, but like you say, Brent, that’s up to Mr. Ilitch as to how much payroll he wants to carry.

If he was signed (which I seriously doubt would happen), I’d personally give him the same benefit of the doubt I gave Sheffield. Sheff turned out to be a good blue collar guy. I don’t think A-Rod would, but I’d wait until he proved that before…..what, booing him out of town? I don’t know, some people mature at different ages. You just never know.

So did ya’ll see the other news coming outta NY? They hired Joe Girardi over Mattingly.
Girardi is a hot head and is going to definitely clash with management. He did it in Florida of all places, can you imagine the blow outs between him and the Steiny brothers?! ha ha….what a mess the Yanks are in.

I think that just goes to show how little class the Yankees have (we all knew that already) to hire an ‘outsider’ per say, over Mattingly. Yes I know Joe-G caught for them for a few years, but Donny has been with them forever. What a blown PR move.

As far as the lineup above, I was all for A-Rod, but the more I read your comments about the team dynamic, etc, I think it probably would be a bad idea to sign him (even if we could). Then again, if we do sign him, I will probably be the first one to start jumping around – World Series bound!

Gentlemen,
I have sat on the sideline and watched the Indians implode; I did not cry. But I am crying now because our beloved Tigers are becoming older as we trade one of our decent position players, and a solid arm for **** with less range than Carlos. I hope this pans; I just know that the team is pushing toward an average age of 33-34 for its starters. Hope for the best. Well, Dan, at least Inge survived the first day after the World Series.

There’s another Leyland going after one of his old players, if you ask me.

It’s not selling the future, though. Either Jurrgens will be John Smoltz all over again, or he, more likely, will be Jeff Weaver all over again. We still have the proven starting pitchers. Unfortunately, it looks like Andrew Miller will be the fifth starter. Hopefully, he steps up and realizes that he has to work to stay at this level.

Renteria, on the other hand, has about the same stats as Guillen. However, his one year in the American League, he was pretty average. Hopefully that is an anomaly, because, the lineup looks pretty good with him in it.

I guess that takes A-Rod right out of it, unless the Tigers are thinking 3rd base. Inge is signed for 3 more years, though, and I don’t think they have any plans to get rid of him. I think he could be a pretty good utility man, though.

thank goodness the tigers arn’t going after a-rod. Renteria will be a solid bat, not too mention solidifying the middle of our defense. It’s exciting to see the tigers moving forward,,,now lets see what we can do about another lefty in the line-up. Best wishes to jurgens,,as eventually we may miss his talent,,he was solid during the tigs wild card push. congrats to redsox nation,,on a dominent 7 game run to take it all….Go Tigers

I would have thought this news would be worth a blog entry by Jason.

This is something I picked up from the Braves site:

“Renteria’s contract includes a $9 million salary for next year and an $11 million option for the 2009 season. When the Red Sox traded Renteria to the Braves, they agreed to pay $11 million of the $29 million remaining on the final three guaranteed years of his contract. In addition, they’re responsible for the $3 million buyout for the option in 2009.

Break this down and it’s determined that the Braves or whoever owns Renteria’s services next year is responsible for just $6 million. This is obviously a bargain for an All-Star caliber, veteran shortstop who has lived up to expectations of being a great teammate.”

Looks like we got him on the cheap. And yeah, it’s yet another former Leyland/Dombrowski guy. I can’t put my finger on it, but there’s something here that bothers me. I certainly don’t like giving up Jurrjens, as I saw him as our top pitching prospect, and a sure bet to beat out Miller next spring.

Edgar Renteria just doesn’t excite me. I’ve become wary of bringing National Leaguers over here only to discover that they don’t hit as we thought they would.

Reneria can also leadoff. I think Grndy’s future is a middle of the lineup hitter but I also think he did such a superb job on cutting down on his strikeouts, stealing bases etc tht he deserves the opportunity of stating his preference. Curtis may become a 25 HR guy but still has some problems driving in runners at clutch RBI times. I think we are all better off with him as leadoff again this coming year.

Granderson CF

Polanco 2B

Sheffield DH

Ordonez LF

Guillen 1B

Fukudome or Markakis RF

Renteria SS

Pudge C

Inge 3B

Loks good to me

I hope I am wrong, but I don’t know if I like this. I really really liked the looks of Jurrjens this year before he got hurt. And everything that I have heard about Gorky’s. Oh well like someone said he is our guy now and I will just hope that Renteria doesn’t dissappoint.

Don’t think I like it either GK. The Red Sox and Indians get younger and we get older. I enjoy watching the young prospects develop, and Jurrjens looked like the real deal. Rentaria is a better fit than A-Rod and it sounds like he is a very good team player, but I’m still disappointed. We’ll see…

I don’t think the small difference in Renteria vs Santiago was worth giving up Jair

Pitching is a main area of concern. Certain other areas in particular what kind of shape Sheffy is in are also a concern.

And so I think summarilly giving good ol’ Case the boot was a bad move in that respect

team building demands changes though and I like to see Timo in left some more

Giving up Gorky for Ren-Tin-Tin doesn’t bother me. We should be ok in the outfield for a few years to come. As far as giving up JJ, I am not so sure. He did look good at times, but as a few posts mentioned, he does have a small history (since he is young) of arm problems.
I think Ren-Tin-Tin will be a good player and nice fit in Detroit, plus he seems like a nice enough guy to fit into the current clubhouse personality.

I can live with this one.

Go Tigers!!

Let’s just say I’m underwhelmed.

Great point Dan. I was on the “don’t let Maroth go wagon”; great guy for a team; pitched well above his ability for a long time. I cried when DD got rid of Weaver; can’t stand him now. Cried again when German left; Castro might know where he is. Iguess when they put on that Royal Blue “D”, I think they’re all hall of famers. Dombo knows what he is doing regardless of what I think. It took me along time to get over the Aurelio Lopez, Brinkman, McClain trade to the Senators. Yeah, I’ve got the games’ last 30 game winners autograph; he might as well have put his prison # on the ball. I’m just going to watch Mr. D. work his magic and bring in a quality LHB to cement our lineup. With Torre gone to the Dodgers, and the Ex=Yanks going to the NL, suddenly we become the alternative to the Red Sox. Cleveland’s starters will not duplicate last year, and I see us back in the chase.

Wow– I’m still unhappy with the trade. Yes– Renteria’s a Tiger and I’ll cheer for him. Yes– I unfairly criticized DD for the Maroth trade and didn’t like Sheffield last year either. Yes– I’m willing to admit that I was wrong. Still, I don’t like trading away young arms– I was really impressed by Jurrjens– and I don’t like old shortstops that are on the downside of their careers. True Dombrowski’s made some good moves but lets not let him off the hook with only the bad trade for the Nefarious one. He also signed Jose Mesa and I’m not fully convinced that Humberto Sanchez won’t eventually pan out.

I’m just bummed that we gave up one– and possibly two– for an older player. I hope Renteria, like Sheffield and others, proves me wrong…

BB. I wouldn’t mind Cordero or Wood either. Wood could start if woodchuck could.
Cordero was a Tiger to begin with and would look good again.

I think Zumaya will be the closer though.

I also think we are going to see huge improvement from Andrew Miller.

BTW–look at this Fukudome talk:

Cubs Targeting A Right Fielder

According to Bruce Miles of the Daily Herald, the Cubs have a lefthanded-hitting right fielder with power atop their offseason wish list. The name that comes to mind: Kosuke Fukudome.

Is it possible that Fukudome gets lost in the winter shuffle a bit and becomes a mild bargain? Something like three years, $30MM? Problem is that if he’s only going to be a 15 HR guy, he needs to compensate for that by playing strong defense and posting a .380 OBP.

In terms of left-handed hitting right fielders with power, the Cubs could also consider Luke Scott, Ken Griffey Jr., and maybe Bobby Abreu if the Yanks cut him loose. The first two would involve intra-division trades though. Hopefully the Cubs don’t go for Shawn Green.

The Cubs could double-dip in the Japanese market, as Miles says they’ll look to add starting pitching depth. Hiroki Kuroda has been the starter connected to the Cubs thus far this offseason.

Miles adds that Jim Hendry is satisfied with Ryan Theriot as a starter. I liked the idea of Edgar Renteria, but failing that I’d consider giving Ronny Cedeno another shot.

The Cubs also seem to have some notion that they need to add speed, which seems like it could result in a bad decision similar to the Juan Pierre trade (ie, a Kaz Matsui signing or something).”

I also saw Brnadon Inge’s name being included in possible 3B replacement in NY.

Not gonna happen.

Rich–that would be awesome. He can field, he can hit, for power, he can run and he knows how to grind out the strike zone.

I like Santiago and I hope we keep him as a late-inning and backup guy, but look at his career numbers:

BA .231, OBP .294, SLG .306

He’s only played in more than fifty games twice and his BA was .225 when he played a full season (2003). I don’t think there’s any reason to think he could carry the kind of numbers we saw last year through a whole season.

Renteria, on the other hand, has the following career numbers:

BA .291, OBP .349, SLG .407

His “bad” year in Boston is the only time in the last six years that he’s been much below his career averages, so I think we all need to hope that was an anomaly. Last year, he was well above his career averages, so let’s hope for momentum!

I think we have good cause to be optimistic about this trade. I really liked Jurrjens (and I was very excited about Gorkys Hernandez , too) but we traded from our strengths (pitching and outfield) and we got a good player in return…

matt

Good link, Dan. Rosenthal is often wrong, sometimes right, but usually interesting with his rumor angles. For instance, he practically guaranteed Soriano coming to Detroit last year.

My opinion is that the size of Comerica is at or close to that of most parks, and that the “pitcher’s haven” thing is just popular lore. Putting the bullpen in left changed everything.

The thing is, of course, that A-Rod is going to play somewhere. And it’s going to be a huge story when it’s announced, preceded by days of breathless speculation. He may go to KC for all we know. If the Dodgers hire Torre, I put Alex with LAA.

Could just as easily be the Tigers as anybody. We’d score so many runs that Bonderman wouldn’t have to learn a third pitch.

Wish I would have said it with that kind of enthusiasm JT. Well put. Seems like no one is too bummed about this trade. It was terrible. Now don’t follow it up with the BIG whiff DD. That would be the franchise for ARod…Yeah that would be a good deal. We tend to give DD (any GM)too much credit…well I think so anyway. Just an opinion. Don’t mean to be disrespectful, but there is a huge smoke and mirror **** shoot element to it all. Outrageous salaries and revolving door team rosters. So now we’ll have to keep an eye on these 2 young guys’ futures. I hate giving up up prospects for instant gratification. ER’s defense will not compare favorably with Santiago’s, and that should be factored into the equation to be fair. And ER’s 12 HR’s/57 RBI is not real exciting. We keep gettin older. I’m with you on this one JT.

I am not wild about the trade either BUT I think it is important to realize they are thinking next year they will field a championship caliber team. “Rent”eria is being rented for a year maybe two and they are grooming Hollimon or Dlughach and hoping they are ready.

I don’t like losing JJ. I liked his composure and his ability to throw strikes. But, he did not have an out pitch. This trade may not hurts us as as badly as it might appear. Hernandez was a couple of years away.

The farm system is to bring your players along but also a strong farm system gives you bargaining chips that allow you to help your team right away.

What we really need is to see a catching prospect developed.

I’d be surprised if Rogers will be able to pitch for us next year–and if he does if he will be able to stay healthy. I hope he does though.

The bullpen which at times last year was horrendous actually showed a ton of promise at the end. I have never been a big Jones fan and I hope he has a fine ending to his career in Atlanta. If he goes they need another late-inning guy as a CYA to the Zumaya transition.

That brings up my final point. The missing piece here is a power LHB to bat after Renteria. Without that 33% of our batting order is weak or questionable. We need to relegate the weak hitters to the 8 and 9 spots so as not to infect the rest of the batting order.

And Schilling, too.

http://38pitches.com/2007/10/30/free-agency-weird/#more-110

This is why you don’t trade your **** pitchers away.

I suppose he’s too young to realize he makes his MONEY with his ARM, and it should be PROTECTED.

I’m just going to go under the assumption that we’ll never see him again.

BTW, Pettitte has ruled himself out of the free agent market. It’s Yankees or retirement for him.

Or Denny McLain who “was napping on the couch and my foot fell asleep. I heard a sound out by the trashcans and when I jumped up, I dislocated three toes.” The popular story is that he was roughed up by mafia men. Denny has admitted almost everything he’s ever done, but he still sticks by this one story. At any rate, it probably cost the Tigers the 1967 pennant.

It seems to me, that DD has shown a willingness(maybe even a want)to trade young pitching talent when injuries are part of that players history. Humberto Sanchez comes to mind……….and now JJ. The kid has had shoulder problems more’n once. The policy might come back to haunt us…..but if JJ continues to have problems, then trading him now was a good idea. His value will never be higher. That leads us to Zumaya. Keeping Sanchez and JJ in mind, it wouldn’t surprise me to see Zoom get packaged in a deal after he comes back and pitches for a while(to prove he’s “healthy” again). Obviously, DD must think he has enough young talent that can remain healthy…..why continue to count on talent that has shown that it cannot finish a season? Gorkys bothers me, however. He seemed to be a perfect lead-off hitter in the making. And, playing in COPA, I can’t imagine a better outfield than Gamer/Maybin/Gorkys. Ahhhh well…….this trade works only if we win in ’08 or ’09.

I would pay Rivera as much as it takes to sign him. We’d still need more setup, though.

So I see Bobby Abreu’s team option has been picked up by NY for $16 mil.
He is a good player and all, but I don’t think he is worth that much. Heck, isn’t that more than Maggs is making!? jesh!

BTW, I’m overdue thanking DANIEL BOONE for that great list of F/A starters you posted on 10/28. With ages no less, great job!

Off your list and since we apparently have to cross Petitte off (read somewhere,maybe this blog, he’s yankees or retire)we can put them in categories.

Colon, the most talent but probably too expensive for the injury risk.

Garcia, has stud stuff, but is falling fast toward an underachiever status. Recent injuries might bring his price into the affordable range.

Byrd, a RH Rogers, and you would now exactly what you got since he’s going from good team to good team, probably not really costly and could win 14.

Silva and Jeff Weaver, might be the best combo of ability, affordability and upside on a much better hitting team.

Schilling, for the champions heart and a one year affordable deal but forget him if he wants the moon. $5-7MM for one good year maybe.

That leaves the guy that to me might be the most intriguing. JENNINGS?? He’s only 29 and pitched all those years on a **** team in a launching pad. I lost track of him this year. Going to go look him up. DAN, can you get us any bullpen F/A’s?

Closers
Armando Benitez (35)

Joe Borowski (37) – $4MM club option for ’08 – Type B

Francisco Cordero (33) – Type A

Octavio Dotel (32) – $5.5MM mutual option for ’08

Keith Foulke (35)

Eric Gagne (32) – Type B

Hitoki Iwase (33)

Masahide Kobayashi (34)

Todd Jones (40) – Type B

Al Reyes (37) – $1MM club option for ’08 – Type B

Mariano Rivera (38) – Type A

Bob Wickman (39)

Middle relievers

Jeremy Affeldt (29)

Antonio Alfonseca (36)

LaTroy Hawkins (35)

Jorge Julio (29) – Type B

Joe Kennedy (29)

Scott Linebrink (31) – Type A

Troy Percival (39) – Type B

David Riske (31) – Type B

J.C. Romero (32)

Mike Timlin (42) – Type B

Luis Vizcaino (31) – Type B

Kerry Wood (31)

Yeah Rich, I agree with you. Please no Jeff Weaver. Please no Gagne either, based on what I saw in the WS. In fact most of the available pitchers on these lists just aren’t very exciting. (But still very good work Dan) I also agree that we appear weaker than at the beginning of 2007 Rich. Some of that perception I think is due to the fact that we were coming off the special 2006 season. By contrast, nobody could have foreseen that half the team would spend time on the disabled list in 2007. Now there are a ton of questions. Zoom is on the DL again and Kenny is still uncommitted. Bonderman is an enigma, Nate continues to be inconsistent, and Miller has not proven ready to pitch deep into a game. And then we see one young guy who might have been able to help, get traded away. Well thankfully there are more young arms still in the system and that is where I believe the answer lies. Our system. Not in the above lists. Problem is GM wants to build a winning team NOW (well we all do to be honest) around a lot of veterans. That’s fine but the window of opportunity just gets narrower. It may not be there when these young pitchers are given a real shot. So you keep trying to find the best available option and plug them in. Schilling would be interesting but I think he would be crazy to leave Boston unless they no longer wanted him. Would Rivera come to Detroit? He might like the team’s lineup but would he trust our pitching to set him up for any saves? (Zoom is out)

Rich, what would you consider a blockbuster trade? To me a blockbuster trade would involve two (or more)teams’ best players. Position players for the Tigers fitting this category would be Ordonez, Polanco, Guillen, and Granderson. I wouldn’t want to give up any of them. Next tier would be Inge, Rodriguez, Renteria, maybe Thames. That’s it for blockbuster trade possibilities. As things stand we have one pitcher who imo qualifies, Verlander. Maybe Zumaya but he’s injured. We do need a LHB outfielder but remember, if he exists, his team will want someone as good in return. We can’t afford to give up any more pitching. Sorry in advance for being tonights’ special guest bummer. Any thoughts?…I mean short of suggesting I stop blogging:)

Inge. Raburn or Hessman can both play third.
Package him with Bonderman.

Think the Twins would go for that?

Maybe if you threw in Thames.

Twins won’t trade Santana to a dvision team.

Maybin for Santana? Yes.

Would we be kicking ourselves later? Likely we would but “later” somethimes never happens.

I see Santiago as being a key guy next year. I think Infante will be gone.
I’d like to see Rogers back but realistically, I don’t think you can expect to get 10 wins out of him.

A closer is imperative. Jones will not be able to effective enough especially now with a setup guy like Zumaya gone. Cordero is available. Be nice to see the Tigers go after a guy like Putz and bring him home to Michigan! But they would have to give up too much to get him and his role as a closer is very dependant on having a good starting staff. We need another starter and can’t afford further depletion out there. Bonderman is a huge key for the team’s success next year. It’s time for him to grow up and accept he has weaknesses that need to be corrected or compensated for.

I hope we don’t see a Thames/Perez platoon out there but I think it is somewhat likely. Just don’t want to see Marcus’ abilities stunted by lack of ABs again.

Marcus might end up playing a DH role if Sheffield can’t cut it, so I think they will keep him.

Well Damon is a gamer and at times a game-breaker. OK Defensively, good speed, LHB. Would solve the LF problem.

Santiago is a key player because he has shown remarkable defensive skills, can run, bunt, swith hit and play several infield positions. Renteria will undoubtedly hurt himself and Placido always seems to go down for 10 or 15 games, so his defense will be needed.

Omar’s offense is not much more productive than Ramon’s and we don’t need his RHB.

I am a Santiago supporter–for sure. Not as the stareting SS, but he is a versatile, gutty and intelligent ball player.

I’ll tell you who could use him–the Devil Rays. But he might help us more by staying than what we would get in trade.

I like Inge and love the exiciting plays he come up with. But, he is quite simply an offensive liability. It ain’t gonna get much better than we saw last year. .250 with 20 HRs would be nice but there were 21 3rd sackers with more HRs and 14 with more RBIs than Brandon.

We need power and more of it from the corners.

Well, Dan. Still picking on poor old Brandon again. So far youv’e gone from A-Rod to Mike Hessman to Joe Crede. Again with all due respect, especially since you have Tiger passion, Mike Hessman is what he is, a minor league journeyman, along with a thousand others who love the game more than they can play it. Rayburn has never been a corner infielder; he’s a guty player, but he’s not a major league third baseman. All I’m asking is that Inge be given a chance to make the adjustments he needs to make to be a consistent big league hitter at third base. I still contend this year was tough because the bottom of the order was under more pressure to perform, especially when Shef got hurt. In 2006, that problem didn’t exist. I still contned to you that our problems are starting pitching and not Brandon Inge. Now if you can get a quality starter for him, that might be another horse. But not Damon; he’s seen the better side of .300. I end by echoing the request to get another strand going. My mouse is dying.

Hey DT. I just don’t think he is premier player. In some way he represents the futility and ineptness of the Tigers of 3 or 4 years ago.
I like him, get a kick out of him, pull for him, but the fact is if you are going to have a championship team then you have to have a team of champions. Brandon will bust a fence to catch a ball in the stands but he won’t alter his bad habits at the dish. You can’t have that type of mentality on your team and expect to win the ultimate game.

By the way, I wasn’t saying go after Crede, what I was saying is if the Yanks are seriously after Crede who is coming off an injury, they could be interested in a guy like Brandon. I think we could use a big bopper over there. A lot of people scoff at Hessman but I see something in him that I like. I would prefer a .235 batting average and 150 strikeouts for Hessman over Inges’ .235 and 150K.

I think Brandon Inge has trading potential right now. I hate to see his contribution levels diminish further and we end up with nothing like we did with Craig Monroe.

We need a starter and a closer, not to mention the LHB, and we are going to have to give up something of value.

The only everday players we have that I think they honestly consider trading have to be Inge and Pudge.

Pudge’s trade means we would need to puck up a young buck in return. Inge’s trade can be filled internally if it had to be.

Damon may not hit .300 but he steals bases, hits big HRs, doesn’t strike out much, and fills a need for an everday outfielder and bats LH.

I would much rather see him out there than Perez.

Well a starter would be nice and it looks like Erik Bedard and Scott Kazmir are being offered up.
TB could use ****. Baltimore could imprive their teame simply by acuiring some of our bench guys!

This is going to be a crucial area for success and the way our starting staff looks now (they could surprise us) another high quality starter would be godsend.

DT. Your mouse is gonna get even more tired with this post!

From http://www.mlbtraderumors.com :

1. Alex Rodriguez – Angels. Keith Law recently termed the Angels a “ridiculously good fit” for A-Rod. It’s true. Despite what Arte Moreno says, the Angels can afford him, don’t hate Scott Boras, have a third base vacancy, are expected to win in 2008, and have a low-pressure fan-base.

2. Jorge Posada – Yankees. Which team is more likely to throw an unreasonable amount of money at Posada, the Yankees or Mets? The Yankees are more desperate to save face. Plus, as Buster Olney recently noted, they can move him to DH in a few years and the contract might not look terrible.

3. Mike Lowell – Red Sox. They’ll come in around four years and $48MM. Such a deal might be colored slightly by emotion but shouldn’t be too damaging. If some team is crazy enough to pony up five guaranteed years, all bets are off.

4. Torii Hunter – Rangers. The White Sox present serious competition, but the Rangers seem dead-set on Hunter. And of course, he has a home near Ameriquest.

5. Andy Pettitte – Yankees. A rare case where a player exercises a reasonably priced player option. Pettitte is a different breed of ballplayer.

6. Mariano Rivera – Yankees. Mo has postured about the Yankees being just one of 30 teams. In the end, he’ll retire a Yankee.

7. Barry Bonds – Padres. I tried hard to make Barry fit on an AL team, and couldn’t do it. He’s not going to finish his career as DH for the Royals. While the Padres have a decent left field platoon in Scott Hairston and Jason Lane, this would be a Kevin Towers type of move if Bonds would sign for $12MM.

8. Aaron Rowand – White Sox. They’ll flirt with Hunter but get Rowand. You could make a case that this contract will be no worse than Hunter’s, given the age and slight salary difference. Bringing Rowand back would be a fan-pleasing move.

9. Carlos Silva – Mets. Silva is going to have tons of suitors. The Mets will come up with a reliable starter one way or another, and Silva might fit. I was originally going to put Livan Hernandez in Queens. But if you’re the Mets, why not tack on another year and $11MM to get the superior, younger guy?

10. Andruw Jones – Dodgers. This is a questionable match given Ned Colletti’s feelings about Scott Boras. And Juan Pierre in left field, ugh. But I could still see this happening for, say, four years and $64MM. Colletti has been willing to overpay a bit to keep the term shorter.

11. Curt Schilling – Phillies. You all know about his target list. The Phillies don’t have a ton to trade and bringing Schilling back would invigorate the fan base more than signing Silva.

12. Kosuke Fukudome – Giants. They have a lot of free cash. With Barry out of the picture and A-Rod unlikely, snagging the best available Japanese player could still generate some buzz. Plus, the Giants must have identified OBP as a problem by now.

13. Francisco Cordero – Brewers. Letting Cordero go makes sense, since the Crew could snag a sweet first-round draft pick as compensation. However the Brewers can fit him into the budget and the free agent closer alternatives are uninspiring.

14. Greg Maddux – Padres. Mad Dog is one Boras client who doesn’t always chase top dollar. He’s comfortable in San Diego and could probably do this for another five years. He only needs 27 more wins to establish himself as third all-time ahead of Christy Mathewson. Walter Johnson’s 417 is out of reach.

15. Mike Cameron – Astros. The Astros seem all about adding a center fielder and pushing Luke Scott out of the organization. They are one team that could handle Cameron’s 25-game suspension without major issues.

16. Tom Glavine – Braves. Most folks seem to agree that Glavine will retire with his original team. They need rotation depth and this makes sense.

17. Hiroki Kuroda – Cubs. The Cubs don’t seem content to give 40% of their starts to Jason Marquis and Sean Marshall. There’s been a lot of buzz early on about the Cubs dipping into the Japanese market. Maybe they can get Kuroda for something like three years, $27MM (way more than he could earn in Japan).

18. Bartolo Colon – Mariners. This was U.S.S. Mariner’s idea. He’s a guy who could pair with Felix at the front of the rotation but wouldn’t cause the Ms to break the bank or trade away young talent.

19. Jason Jennings – Rockies. This would be a solid replacement for the consistent 5.00+ ERA of Josh Fogg. Jennings has shown he can get it done in Coors.

20. Eric Gagne – Tigers. You have to think Scott Boras is trying to convince the Tigers to take a flier on Gagne right now, given Joel Zumaya’s injury. They could also be a contender for Francisco Cordero.

21. Tadahito Iguchi – Mariners. He’s a good fit here – the comfort of a huge Japanese following, a need to challenge Jose Lopez with a veteran.

22. Paul Byrd – Indians. HGH or not, he’s worth $8MM on a one-year commitment.

23. Jose Guillen – Cardinals. Could La Russa keep Guillen in line? He didn’t cause any clubhouse problems in Seattle. The Cards could use a right fielder with 25 HR pop, and he might be the only qualifier.

24. Kyle Lohse – Cardinals. I was going to put him with the Astros but then remembered Drayton McLane’s strong dislike of Scott Boras. The Cardinals are seeking one solid starter. Lohse almost qualifies, in this market.

25. Roger Clemens – Retirement. Some say The Rocket could never go out like this. But coming back for a possibly injury-plagued ’08 won’t make it better. His usual three options are the Yankees, Red Sox, and Astros. Only the Astros could really entertain it, but they might prefer to close the book on him.

26. Livan Hernandez – Mariners. The Ms brought in Jeff Weaver, Horacio Ramirez, and Miguel Batista last year. Only Batista stuck. Livan is similar, an innings eater who puts guys on but wiggles out of jams. They had trade interest in him during the summer. If the Mariners sign Colon they’ll need someone reliable to complement him.

27. Hitoki Iwase – Reds. It was tough for me to decide what the Reds will do. Will they sign Silva? Fill a hole with an Adam Dunn trade? The idea of signing a crack Japanese closer seems kind of out there for the Reds, but what the ****. Iwase is going to be popular this winter.

28. Kenny Rogers – Tigers. He’s said it’s the Tigers or retirement. He’s still effective enough to keep going.

29. Kenshin Kawakami – Royals. How about an under-the-radar Japanese pitcher for the Royals? New manager Trey Hillman is perfect for this.

30. Geoff Jenkins – Tigers. The Tigers are looking for a left-handed hitting left fielder, and Jenkins fits the bill.

31. Freddy Garcia – Padres. I think the Padres could afford to add both Bonds and Garcia. They’ve already expressed a willingness to bring in a rehab-type or two, as the front three in the rotation should be set once Maddux signs. Matt Clement might be more likely but I could see Garcia for $6-7MM.

32. Milton Bradley – Cubs. Could Lou keep Milton happy? Bradley could be their consolation prize if they don’t win the Fukudome sweepstakes. He’s got pop and can help in center or right when healthy. Plus, he’s a switch-hitter. They’ve had trade interest in him in the past.

33. Luis Castillo – Mets. I think the Mets will sign him for lack of a better option. He did a nice job for them and wants to stay.

34. Shannon Stewart – White Sox. I was considering the Tribe for Stewart but I know they want power in left field. The White Sox seem like a team that could opt for defense over power at the position.

35. Kazumi Saito – Not Posted. Just a hunch, but I feel that the Fukuoka Hawks will wait for Saito to have a healthy, effective season before posting him.

36. Kaz Matsui – Rockies. My guess is that he’ll realize that he needs Coors, and settle at a reasonable price.

37. Juan Uribe – Orioles. I have Uribe as Miguel Tejada’s replacement at shortstop. Someone has to fill the void. If the White Sox are intent on adding Eckstein I wouldn’t expect them to want Uribe as a $5MM second baseman.

38. Pedro Feliz – Yankees. I know, it’s heresy to suggest the Yankees would settle for the defense and low OBP Feliz provides. But beyond A-Rod and Lowell, what is there? A Joe Crede trade seems quite possible as an alternative.

39. Joe Borowski – Indians. The Tribe seems reasonably happy with Borowski at $4MM next year.

40. Todd Jones – Braves. If the Braves decide to stay in-house for their center field solution, they could use the excess cash to add Jones. He wants to play there and could take a discount (granted, they already have Rafael Soriano and Mike Gonzalez).

41. Yorvit Torrealba – Mets. I don’t see the Mets being crazy enough to give Posada five years. Torrealba seems sufficient, no worse than the other options. A Ramon Hernandez trade seems to be a popular alternative.

42. Kenny Lofton – Twins. A trade for Coco Crisp to play center is plenty possible. But otherwise there’s always Lofton to step in and not embarrass you.

43. David Riske – Phillies. I’m not sold on Riske being good for the next three years. However he’s healthy and had a very good 2007, and that will get him a nice contract.

44. Randy Wolf – Diamondbacks. Part of me knows that the D’Backs really don’t need more injury risk in their rotation. Still, Wolf is a smart signing and there are only so many innings-eaters to go around.

45. Michael Barrett – Marlins. Barrett seems like the Marlins’ type of bargain signing. For $3MM, he could surprise. Also, maybe he could play some third base if Miguel Cabrera is traded.

46. Masahide Kobayashi – Devil Rays. It wouldn’t surprise anyone to see the Rays find a Japanese bargain. Kobayashi’s deceptive delivery could result in a year or two of MLB success.

47. David Eckstein – White Sox. They’ve liked him for a while. It’s time for a change at shortstop, and Eckstein is at least someone different (and not lazy). Kenny Williams could certainly make a trade instead.

48. Luis Gonzalez – Twins. He’s unwanted, so he’ll be affordable. Adding Lofton and Gonzo wouldn’t impress anyone, but the Twins aren’t big spenders. Maybe Bill Smith will opt for a Jason Bay trade instead.

49. Mike Lamb – Phillies. The pickin’s are slim at third base. A Lamb/Helms platoon might be league average. Otherwise I could see a Crede trade.

50. Jon Lieber – Nationals. They’re looking for a veteran starter on a one-year deal. I think Liebs could be that guy for $5-6MM.

Honorable mentions: Brad Wilkerson, Mike Piazza, Troy Percival, Kris Benson, Omar Vizquel, Scott Linebrink, Paul Lo Duca, Octavio Dotel, Ramon Castro, Corey Patterson

I agree with that. Jenkins is not a solution IMO.

from John Heyman at SI:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/jon_heyman/11/05/monday.scoop/index.html

2. Tigers. There’s some buzz now that owner Mike Ilitch might make a play for Rodriguez even while general manager Dave Dombrowski is throwing cold water on the idea in public (Dombrowski apparently doesn’t believe teams should devote more than 17 percent of their payroll to any one player). This is nothing new for these two. Dombrowski would have drawn a harder line with three previous free agents — Magglio Ordonez, Ivan Rodriguez and Kenny Rogers — but was overruled by Ilitch, who’s pleased with the output of all three of those Boras-represented players and doubly pleased that the Tigers are no longer viewed by star free agents as a last resort. Ilitch is deep-pocketed these days, as Detroiters keep pouring money into his wife’s casinos, causing him to rise to a rank of one of the baseball’s two or three richest owners (he’s back on the Forbes 400 list, at No. 297 with $1.6 billion). One caveat: A-Rod might be tough for the Tigers considering MLB’s debt-service rule.

‘Just when I thought I was out, they pulled me back in’ to quote one of my favorite lines from The Godfather.

I have been reading all posts for awhile, but haven’t been quite sure what to add to the mix, but here I am again.

For the last week or so, it seemed to cool off in our Hot Stove talk about A-Rod, with the singing of Ren-Tin-Tin. Now I have a feeling we are going to loop around and begin again.

Honestly, I really don’t know. We have ALL talked about this over and over again, but heck, why not say the same things again.

Would A-Rod make a heck of a signing? – Yes

Would he HELP take the team to the level we all want them at? – Yes

Would we possibly be a media distraction – Maybe. I say maybe, because we all thought Sheff was going to be and it turned out not to be as bad as I think we all thought it would be. Maybe A-Rod needs ‘a home’ to settle down in. I would surely open my door to him. Yes, yes, I know all about him being jealous, etc etc…..I think it is a real possibility that he could win 10 or so games for the Tigers next year all by himself.

Would that be the end of Inge? – Maybe. He might have to resort to a back-up roll or be traded off in a package with Thames and maybe a pitcher for a LHB to play LF -Even with Griffey’s injuries, I wonder what he could do for us in LF – then again, he is OLD now, I don’t know about that one, nix it. Let me say, I do and have always like Brandon Inge.

Although, I will say I have never been completed sold on the idea of NEEDING a LHB.

OK, I think I am beginning to ramble on – I think it is too early in the morning for this or work for that matter. Heck with it, I am putting my head down on my desk and taking a nap!

Hardly off topic, Ty my man. Anything baseball is very much on topic.

This is one time I agree with Bud Selig, in that neither of us want instant replay. It’s a total mess in football, especially the NFL, and has detracted from the game. I rarely even watch the NFL anymore, and instant replay is a large part of it.

I think the problem lies in ballpark design. These yellow lines shouldn’t be necessary. There should be a clear cut fence where it’s easy to tell if a ball is gone or not. As for fair/foul balls, how about a taller foul pole? Change the physics of the parks, not the game itself.

In hot stove news, Schilling and Byrd are off the market. Not surprising. There are never as many transactions as many sportswriters and we fans think there will be.

You give me Rivera and Jon Rauch and we don’t need a LH bat. We’ll do just fine with “Timo Thames” as our leftfielder.

I agree not sure that I understand why Pudge won this year, but oh well Curtis also should of won over Sizemore so whatever. I am really glad for Placido though, he deserves that. I also just want to say that it is too bad that A-rod is getting a lot of awards for hitting over Magglio this year. I guess people confuse homeruns with hitting including the people who decide these awards. Magglio and Suzukie and Placido not to mention a whole lot of other people were better hitters. Arod just happened to get a few more out of the park.

GK – I heard the same thing this morning on the radio here in Cleveland and what like “what the heck”?!
Anyway…

Congrats to Polly, I-Rod and Raburn!!

Rich – I agree with the Rivera and Rauch idea….that would be a nice look at the end of the bullpen in 08′

I have a feeling that DD still has one more ‘nice’ signing up his $500 shirt sleave for this offseason….where will it come…humm…LF, a closer perhaps…we shall all see….

ra-ha-ha-ha-ha…..

To respond to the most recent article posted on the site. I would love to see The Gambler back for one more year. Jones – we all have different feelings for Jones, but overall he was pretty effective – although nail biting at times. I don’t know on this one. Rivera would be awesome, Gagne would be ok, although I worry about his injury problems, then again that would be no different from what we have now, so what the hay, right?!

It’s a lot of fun to look at the hitting line-up. But let’s set that aside. We got a good line up and good, excellent depth.

Pitching Troubles

Let’s start with the starters

35 Justin Verlander

29 Nate Robertson

38 Jeremy Bonderman

37 Kenny Rogers

40 Yorman Bazardo

only 1 ain’t shakey is Verlander and I think Robertson based on his come-back later part of the season. Next man is likely Bazardo now we traded JJ.

Hitting is all good but ya gotta get them other guys out that’s part of the game too.

Lets go on

Set up guys

34 Tim Byrdak

52 Chad Durbin

49 Jason Grilli

31 Zach Miner

44 Bobby Seay

good group, except Grilli don’t always seem to be up to snuff…

Closers

56 Fernando Rodney

54 Joel Zumaya

59 Todd Jones

Mr. Jones is the only guy you can count on so best sign him before he goes to Atlanta

Prospects

41 Jose Capellan

36 Eulogio De La Cruz

43 Macay McBride

48 Andrew Miller

Rick Porcello

50 Clay Rapada

53 Jordan Tata

32 Virgil Vasquez

As I see it we need at least a starter and a closer… If we could get Gagne? He’s a good man but didn’t have a good year w/ Boston

oh, a pitching coach too while we’re at it

Hey Scratch, how you doing? Sometimes if feels like those of us who experienced the last two months of 2006 on this blog are like old war buddies.

Your trade is a good one for the Marlins. Not so sure of our end, pending who the prospect would be. At any rate, I don’t think we’ll ever trade Miller and here’s why. It appears to me that the organization is staking it’s reputation on young Andrew. They’ve rushed him to the bigs and stick with him despite it being obvious he’s not ready yet, then they tinker with his delivery which could be what made him effective in the first place. The kid hasn’t shown me anything yet and in reality, he shouldn’t be. He should be showing in the minors. The club is stubborn here, much like Bush and Iraq. That’s why I think this trade would never happen.

Nap, there’s not going to be a new pitching coach.

Okay, on to Rogers. I like ol’ Kenny, but I think he needs to make a decision soon. We’re kind of twisting in the wind while he decides. I’m pretty sure he’ll decide what to do before the winter meetings, when the real wheeling and dealing takes place. If he hasn’t by then, well…….we should assume he’s not coming back.

Todd Jones. Very important to sign him. I don’t think it’s helped that he’s been raked over the coals by fans the previous two seasons. He’s made numerous comments that gave clues as to his feelings on that. This is a sensitive guy, and I think his feelings are hurt. Okay, enough Dr. Phil garbage. I doubt we can get Rivera and that pretty much leaves Gagne. I think a trade might bring more value than a free agent.

Maybe we should sign Kenny Lofton, for no other reason than he’s never played here.

Well I hope that I wasn’t wrong about Kenny Rogers. I really thought (maybe stupidly) that Kenny wanted to be a Tiger instead it is really just looking like he is trying to play us (meaning the organization). I will really be disappointing. I just hope he doesn’t string the Tigers on too long so there isn’t much left out there.

Napfn McClendon was the pen coach, not the pitching coach and frankly has done a great job as the hitting coach. I don’t agree with your assessment as all. Chuck was the pitching coach during 2006. It isn’t that he has done a bad job, but half of his pitchers were hurt at one time of another. He worked with what he had.

Jason on Rogers:

“It could simply be a matter of Boras trying to negotiate the best deal for his client to return to Detroit. The two-year, $16 million deal negotiated in December 2005 ended up being among the best moves in baseball out of an offseason full of free-agent pitchers. This winter, Rogers ranks among the best remaining starters in a relatively thin free-agent crop.”

I think this is the case. Boras is trying to get Kenny a good final contract of his career, and is basically doing what Boras does. He hasn’t acquired all these players into his camp for nothing.

If Rogers went elsewhere, I’d also be disappointed in him. Let your agent do his job, but in the end, do the right thing. Like Andy Pettitte did.

This is why you don’t trade your pitching prospects, and I’ll probably be repeating that forever.

Nap, you make valid points about the pitchers. I just don’t think a different pitching coach would glean any different results from this staff. Hernandez isn’t a mind reader, and if these guys insist that they’re not injured, what do you do? GK’s point about how the staff excelled in 2006, and the multitude of injuries in 2007, is right on. Let’s just say Hernandez isn’t going anywhere anytime soon. He’s here for at least another season.

I wonder, though. Do you have a particular pitching coach in mind?

–Rich

Just a reminder to all of you, to vote several times for our boys in ‘This Year In Baseball Awards’ here is the link just in case you need it.

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/awards/y2007/tyib/index.jsp

Congrats to Polly and Maggs for the Silver Slugger awards.
Also nice to see Santiago re-signed for another year!

Go Tigers!

Interesting trade here..Infante for Jacque Jones from the Cubs.
This pretty much assures Raburn gets the other utility infielder job (along with Ramon), which is nice to see.

Not quite sure what they plan to do with Timo now. Someone is going to be gone now – either Thames or Timo. I think Timo showed some signs of being a decent player, but is probably gone now as they don’t need 2 LHB for the outfield.

So does this mean a Thames/Jones platoon in LF or will Jones get the start with Thames backing him up? humm…..

I guess Jones does bring alittle more power than Timo did, so I guess that is good.

Not exactly a blockbuster deal as I thought we would see. A tad disapointed there.

I think we are pretty much set with position players now. Now it is just time to see what Rogers decides to do (I think we will have an answer soon) and get another arm for the bullpen. Maybe 2 if Jones goes to Houston.

**Correction**
Jones to Atlanta…but doesn’t matter now since we signed him.

I guess I was looking at Clemens being an advisor or whatever to the Astros….what a washup.