Second start in a week for Thames
He started part of that day-night doubleheader last Tuesday and then Saturday against Johan Santana at the Metrodome, but he’d barely played otherwise. But he’s 4-for-10 with a double, homer and five RBIs off of Westbrook, compared to 1-for-5 for Timo Perez. He’ll probably start again Wednesday afternoon against Sabathia, so that might get him going.
- Granderson, CF
- Polanco, 2B
- Sheffield, DH
- Ordonez, RF
- Guillen, 1B
- Rodriguez, C
- Thames, LF
- Santiago, SS
- Inge, 3B
For what it’s worth, it was still a loose clubhouse today before the game, but that’s as much about a team with nothing to lose at this point as whether or not the team still has a chance. But in any case, they still seem to be enjoying themselves, and last night’s collapse shouldn’t have any lingering effect. Zumaya isn’t available after working three straight games, and Miner’s off, too.
Jason Beck
Interesting that Santiago hits ahead of Inge in the lineup.
I think it’s time to face the music and sit Sheffield.
If we get swept here then it’s time to see what Maybin, Hessman, Raburn and Rabelo can do.
Granderson was invisible last night–we lost. There is a connection.
We need a scary home-run hitter in the middle of our lineup.
Miller will be loved by Tiger fans next year.
Bonderman’s contract was part of his problem this year.
Polanco is the most valuable Tiger–ahead of Ordonez and Granderson.
Sit Inge down against Sabathia tomorrow. Don’t matter he is left handed—he can’t hit him.
We’re gonna win tonight. 7-3.
Out of curiosity and for the sake of discussion – given Mike Rabelo’s suprise emergence this year behind the plate, how do you all think Vance Wilson will fit in next season. That is, presuming he comes back alright from his injury.
Guillen 2-0 count bases loaded and he pops it up. My point–he is definietly struggling. Pudge disappoints again and Ks with the bases loaded. Sort of a microcosm of our season.
I think Rabelo will be in a Tigers Jersey next year. He’s not ready for a full time job though.
We were pretty fortunate to plate 3 runs that inning. Granderson seems to be in a mini-slump again. I swear every time he gets to .300 he goes into a funk and drops back down to the mid .290s before he starts all over again.
The story of the 3 run long ball haunts us once again. The other guys get them and we don’t.
Indians have 2 hits today and they have 4 runs. Verlander’s fault to be sure but our team really needs to acquire some homeruns in the off-season.
Pudge up after Guillen singles. (Would have been nice last at bat).
10 hits now.
I would take odds Pudge doesn’t hit a 3 run tater. I spoke too soon. He didn’t. But he did leave 2 more men on.
It’s microcosmic!
Forgot to mention Sheffield’s baserunning. I think maybe he was giving a visual example to Maybin on what he did last night?
If common sense prevails we should win this game. So many hits against Westbrook but we have slipped into that are we were in before the winning streak. The area where you get all kinds of base runners but nobody is able to bring ‘em home.
Common sense aside. This could be another frus”tater” of a game.
Where are Cash Kaline and Colavito when you need them?
The Tigers are done now. No question about it.
Here a fact: The Tigers are 28th out of 30 teams for hitting homers in Septermber.
In August they are 22nd out of 30.
There is a correlation there for management to consider.
Okay, this one DOES end it for this year.
Such a predictable game, too. I predicted the Hafner homer, and that we were through hitting after the 12th hit.
In the first two games of this series, Cleveland has homers from six of the guys in their lineup. That’s all they do, in fact, hit homers. Seems to work.
Okay, tonight’s discovery: a ballpark is no place to try to watch a ballgame. Too much extraneous garbage going on, from scoreboards exhorting people to scream at the top of their lungs for no particular reason, to the couple in front of us who ****** face for the entire game.
I also found out that Cleveland has declared a rivalry but didn’t inform us. Tonight’s t-shirts featured one that said “Beat Detroit.” A lot more in your face type behavior too. I was on the aisle and one guy came by and actually said “too bad, too bad” and reached out like he was going to pat me on the shoulder. Glad he didn’t, it was too early for me to get kicked out of the place. On top of that, a TIGER fan saw me sitting during the seventh inning stretch (I’d had to stand a lot in order to see the game over the kissing) and this guy actually poked me sharply in the chest several times and said “keep the faith.” Too weird.
Anyway, my post-June record for the past two seasons is 0-7. Not surprising, I guess, considering the team struggles in the second half.
Wiles, assuming Vance Wilson does come back from his injury, I think he could share the catching duties with Rabelo the backup but all that remains to be seen. I happen to be a Vance Wilson fan.
6 hits and 4 of them are HRs. Poor concentration on Justin’s part, or was it typical Cleveland luck? Tigers get 12 hits, but 9 K’s. Once again, poor clutch hitting. Bases loaded and Carlos pops up, then Rodriguez swings and misses on a ball that could just as easily have hit him in the foot. Why did I know that was going to happen? Another microcosm of the season.
Being a die hard Tiger fan I’m still not giving up, though it will indeed take a miracle from here. If the AL playoffs come down to LAA, NY, Boston, and Cleveland, I’ll be rooting for either Boston or LA. Will not root for Cleveland. In fact the only AL Central team I would likely root for other than the Tigers would be KC. As a fan I feel absolutely no obligation to back the AL Central Division, just because the Tigers are in it. My loyalty pretty much stops with them. I don’t make the connection…if that’s sour apples, so be it.
For now there’s still more baseball to play, and I’m going to try and enjoy it. Rich, I feel badly this trip has been such a disappointment for you. Maybe we get them tomorrow.
Idiots, weirdos and stupid t shirts….Rich, check your ticket stub. Are you sure it doesn’t say Smack Down, Rumble, or something?
It will be interesting to see what JL does with the lineup tomorrow. The day game gives him an excuse to sit some regulars.
My guess is Pudge for sure will sit. It would make some sense even if he was hitting.
I think he will likely play Ordonez unless he wants to sit. Guillen could sit, or play short, and they could throw in big Mike Hessman.
Inge should get a rest against Sabathia as he has had no success against him anyway.
Sheffield needs to tell the manager to take him out of the lineup. He’s not helping out enough to stay in.
I really would like to see the kids play to see what they have to offer and to give them a little experieince. A couple more losses and I don’t really see the point of over-playing the regulars.
I don’t hate these Indians as much as some of you other guys here but I sure don’t want those guys to sweep us. It would be good to go out and kick some butt tomorrow.
Fingers are crossed for you and Mrs. P tomorrow, Rich.
Dan I don’t hate the Indians. I just don’t like the way they’ve been winning ballgames, especially these last 2. They remind me too much of the Twins of last year. And our Tigers come in second twice because of weak second halves. The jealousy factor. At this point I don’t feel much like supporting any AL team in the post season. I’ll probably root for the Cubs as the under dog.
We need to win 10 straight. I wouldn’t concede this season by playing the bench, at least until they lose another game. But I agree Dan, Rodriguez and Inge could sit this one out. Tigers need the long ball today to turn the table.
As Marty says, I will cheer for anyone except Cleveland. Something about Wedge makes me nauseated; probably unfair. I know nothing abut him. He just appears to be the Ken Harrelson of managers. if Hawk only knew, there would be more White Sox fans if he was not their announcer. In this crazy season of ours, we have lost so many odd games; the recent game with 14 or 15 hits and 2 runs, the meltdowns in Cleveland in April, and Oakland last week. Last night to have 12 hits, and have a loss the way we did. it just reinforces the notion that there is magic needed for the winner every year. The Mets of 69; even the Tigers of 87.
Our magic was last year. I’m not prepared yet to give up on Brandon Inge. He is such a good athlete, and having known his background, I believe he will spend the offseason making necessary corrections to improve his hitting game. I see Rogers as an important component in our pitching success next year, not so much as an every 5 day starter, but just using his knowlege of the game. I could see him as a future pitching coach for the Tigers. Granderson must work on getting into better hitting counts. He doesn’t take enough pitches as a leadoff hitter. Good right handers still make him look uncomfortable at the plate. I believe that Sheffield will closeout his major league career next year with an outstanding season. One final comment; if you flipped ballparks, Cleveland would not have been in first place this year. Home Runs last night were well hit, but they have lived by the cheap shots. Boy, have my sour grapes really shown through. I continue to bleed Tiger Blue after 47 years with my team.
I’m going to make it easier on myself today by wearing neutral clothes,although I doubt we’ll have the drunken, howling mob we’ve had the previous two nights. We have a 6.5 hour drive and may or may not stay for the entire game.
Pudge should sit today. He’s really damaged us offensively this season. Other than that, I’d go ahead under the assumption we can still win something, until proven otherwise. Sheffield did line a couple of singles last night, and I’d start him against the lefty Sabathia. Same with Thames. Other than that, not much you can do, unless we can swing a trade for A-Rod this morning.
I think my wife got herself on TV last night during the pregame show.
Dan – I agree with you on Rogers. I also believe he will be with the club for one more year. He has shown (when he has played) that he can be effective at his age and still has the heart to pitch at a reasonably high level. I can also see him as the pitching coach in 2009. Chucky-boy needs to go, either after this season or next. The boys respect Rogers big time and think they would benefit from someone that has actually thrown a pitch at a ballpark, not during batting practice.
I am also still not totally willing to give up yet. Obviously the wild card is our only shot. Being 4.5 back, even though the “odds” are against us, there still is hope. Although with the Yanks cake-walk schedule to close the season it will be tough even if we run off 10 in a row (which I don’t see happening).
Rich – Good luck at the game today. Too bad I am stuck at work today or I would stop by and say hello. Jacobs Field is only like 3 blocks from where I work downtown (have I mentioned today how much I hate living in Cleveland!?).
And just for the heck of it, here is our 2008 opening day starting lineup.
Granderson (CF)
Polanco (2B)
Sheffield (DH)
Ordonez (RF)
Gullien (1B)
Raburn (LF)
Rodriguez (C)
Santiago (SS)
Inge (3B)
Anyway, I guess I better do some “work” even though I am having trouble these days concentrating with the Tigers in the situation that they are.
We may have walked right past your building, Ty, when we hiked from the Hilton here to the R&R Hall of Fame. The HOF is pretty good, by the way. Lots of good memories in there, and I’d recommend it for anyone visiting Cleveland.
We fans may or may not give up, but Leyland is obligated to put his best team on the field until mathematically eliminated. I do think we see Raburn today. I hope it’s not Clevlen or Maybin.
There may be one big trade in the offseason, and it may come early like the Sheffield deal last year.
Regarding the playoffs, I may stick with the NL clubs. I don’t see anything interesting in the AL. Although after all this gloating and celebrating here in this city, a Cleveland-Detroit matchup would be delicious.
So far the boys from Toledo have us ahead against one of the better southpaws in the game.
Hessman-Sanitago-Raburn all started the year at Toledo. Even Rabelo had a good swing.
It’s gonna be a tough go for Nate today.
Scary bottom of the third there. We just can’t seem to have that shut down inning after we score….I have a feeling it is gonna be a long day.
And………another fly out my Shef.
Yeah Ty. This one doesn’t feel good either. Sabathia is throwing well and you just know there is a homer or two sitting in that Indian dugout in the home half of an inning coming up.
Sheffield’s physical problems have reduced him to warning track power. Kinda sad to see.
Nate is mucking his way through but he is going to need some offensive help.
Well it wasn’t the HR tht hurt us here in the 5th. Nate is through IMO. They will leave him in though until he gets embarrassed.
Well Carbrera hit him and now Haffner is going to take him downtown.
Dan – I agree. 4-2 Cleveland. UGH! I am ‘watching’ the game on fox news game trax and it is hard to watch that. I can’t even imagine how it is for you Rich to actually be there for a 3rd game in a row and watch things unfold like this……I don’t know what else to think right now..
This is the type of thing, “let’s just leave in Nate, no reason to waste the pen”
I guess I am a bit cynical. Been a frustrating season I guess. They have Durbin warming up and he has not had a great deal of success against the Indians.
Not sure if the club has it in them to score runs in the later innings anymore. It will take a surprise attack to score I think.
The season seems destined to end in a miserable fashion and it looks like it might extend to Ordonez not being able to claim the batting title either. He is not hitting like he was (he’s hitting about .250 since the Toronto game) and Suzuki will just keep on ticking.
Tigers score early and it’s almost like they are spent thereafter. Then it is a cascade of poor pitches and bad at bats that ends up seeing the lead and the confidence evaporate.
Well Ty, you are missing some nice play by our middle infielders. Santiago and Polanco are turning DPs and are so solid it it almost unimaginable that anybody can get things by them let alone make an error.
Santiago has been very impressive. He is worth some special attention as far as coaching him in how to improve his batting average and OBP.
I always have liked Santiago, even when he was a regular player before being dealt to Seattle for Guillen and then coming back the next year. I agree, he should be given some attention the way he is playing defense and at the plate (the few times he has been up to bat since being called up).
Here it is…and it is hard for me to say…if Detroit loses today and the Yanks win, personally, I am going to have to write off this season. I will still watch the box score (don’t get many D games here in Cleveland) on ESPN, but will not take it to heart anymore if they lose.
Nate back in there….humm….one more walk/hit…and he better come outta there or I am walking down to the stadium myself and buying a ticket this late in the game to throw a wad of gum at JL’s head….SORRY…got carried away there….it’s just hard…so hard to watch this after last year…
Now, back to my cynicism. The lineup is lacking a sense of menace. The team has slipped back into playing polite baseball again–there is no danger in the lineup whatsoever.
It seems like there is no one that can physically hit a HR. That can make opposing pitchers that much better against us.
Like I sais yesterday–the Tigers are 28th out of 30 MLB teams in HR production in September. No punch. No instant runs. No playoffs.
Bentancourt & Borowski for the Indians have always looked like a couple of pricks to me…….LET’S GO NOW!
Come on Maggs!!!
UGH
Come On…we need a BIG BOMB here! Let’s go Thames!
Ah ****. Should have brought in TIMO there….
It looks like the most significant bomb this year was just that. The year—2007 was a bomb.
HA!
Well, we lost, no surprise really. We should have won all 3 games. But so be it. Again, if the Yanks win tonight, I am writing this season off and will only speak from that point on about 2008.
I think the biggest injury of the season–the one that kept the Tigers from having a shot down the stretch is Vance Wilson.
With Rabelo starting, the Tigers are 4 games under .500, and he’s been up the whole year. Even though Pudge went through a two-month slump, it was his ability to keep the young staff settled down that kept us in games.
You change that 4 under .500 to 4 over .500, something I think Wilson would have done, and the Tigers are still right there.
Rabelo got to learn on the fly, though, and it should help the team in the future, which is all we can think about now…
Holy ****…the game just gets over and I can already here people in the cubicles next to me yappin away about the Indians, sweeping the Tigers, the division, etc, etc…I think I am gonna throw a binder at them! brb
not only do ya gotta have a fast car — or good team — ya gotta have some luck too.
I’m going to enjoy the remaining games. Because that is what they play them for.
“Powerless”. This pretty much describes the lineup as well as anything management can do to correct it.
Well the Tigers are now the league leaders. In the Hot Stove League that is.
We can be as enamored as we want to be with our cuddly Tigers but the truth is they need to make some big decisions and big trades prior to next season.
The only place they are rock solid in the infield is at 2nd.
The only place they are solid defensively and offensively in the OF is in CF.
The starters have been inconsistent.
The relievers have been inconsitent.
You can’t reasonably expect Ordonez to have another year like 2007. So how do you supply the pop in the lineup?
Sheffield is a shadow of his former self–and the shadow will thin even more next year. I think it would be wise to trade him while you can hook someone into needing his reputation in their lineup.
Inge’s tenure here is also going to have to be addressed.
Pudge’s prodcution is diminishing quickly. His defense no longer justifies the numbers he puts up.
Something simply has to be done in LF and at 1B. I hear Ryan Howard and Prince Fielder would love to play here!
All the talk of Guillen going to 1B and Santiago to play short. Guillen will need to hit better than he did this year to make that combination work.
Santiago needs to hit about .270 to warrant a full time job and to offset the power he will not be able to provide. His defense is superb.
I’d keep Verlander, Bonderman, Rogers, Miller, Jurrjens, Seay, Rodney and Zumaya. The other pitchers could be trade bait.
Infante and Thames should be given a chance to play everyday with another club if they can’t do it here.
We lost a lot of HRs this year. Monroe, Thames, Inge.
That hurt as much as anything.
But the injuries (Rogers – reported and Bonderman – unreported) really hurt us.
Just read all the 43 posts. Some really interesting comments and insightful too. Baseball fans have it all over any other sport in brain power.
I do want to address one thing. I’m a transplanted Michigander in MA. Have seen the Yanks-Sox rivalry up close and personal at both parks. Leyland and some of you need to stop being “Sallies”. There is nothing wrong with a little hatred for your rivals. That’s why Fenway and Bronx provide such a home field advantage! Comerica, no advantage at all!
It was embarassing to hear Comerica’s “feeble” chants of MVP…MVP for Mags as an example, compared to what they did last year at Fenway for Ortiz. The problem here, not enough hatred.
I f—–G HATE the Indians guts!! Ty had it right earlier, Borowski and especially Betancourt don’t just look like pricks, they are pricks. Despite what Leyland says, I’d give a weeks salary to just give that fist-pumping Blake one shot in the nose.
So let’s man up here and see Cleveland, Chicago and Twins for the jerks they are. If you do let your blood boil, maybe our team will play with some balls next year knowing the fans are really into it! GO TIGERS!!! GO TIGERS!!! GO TIGERS!!!
We’re back home. Good news first. The only good news, in fact. My “plot” to be the “Goodtime Tiger Fan of the Game” worked. I just watched Tuesday’s pregame and my wife was on camera as the above named fan. Where was I? Well….I was up at our seats watching her purse. Maybe not so good after all. 47 years a Tiger fan and she’s on TV in her second season.
All in fun, of course.
After Cleveland had their 3-run fifth, it was enough for me. We watched the Tigers hit in the sixth then got on the road. We listened on the radio as Leyland FAILED to hit Timo for Thames with the bags drunk in the eighth. That move was as obvious to me as the center lines on the Ohio Turnpike. I had thought you guys would have been all over that non-move.
Part Two of my trilogy on how to win the division failed miserably, so Part Three has been canceled in production. At this point in time, there is a huge difference in the level of Cleveland’s play and ours. Our only chance was to win Monday and, when we were up 5-1, it was working. The Cleveland players were tightening up as I’d predicted. Then Perralta with the first homer, followed by his 330-foot “shot” into the Tiger bullpen. That effectively ended our chances of pulling off this miracle.
Dan, I agree with your assessments as usual. I’m thinking our team isn’t as good as we might think it is. I’m forced, also as usual, to point out that most of the changes needed cannot be made, at least not in one offseason period. To correct all of this team’s flaws would require a major overhaul and that’s just not feasible.
The best thing to happen would be Cleveland winning the whole thing and coming back fat and happy next year. I’m not rooting for them by any means, but that would be the best scenario for us. In fact, I will probably just watch the NL playoffs, because the AL is pretty much the same old dull stuff. Until then, I’ll continue to watch the Tigers because, come October 1st, I’m going to be missing it.
Oh yeah, one thought on a heated and hate-filled rivalry: I could do without that kind of stuff. That’s for football. I got a huge dose of being hated this week and I didn’t care for it. Call me old fashioned, or an old flower child, whatever.
correct all our flaws?
yeah, Ok, I kinda thought that’s what they made fantasy ball games for
but in the element of the real we have a bunch of pretty darn good ball players (and they are also quite a Gang of Characters too I might add )
I think our Tigers are going to be the stronger for having gone through the Troubles of August and I say that because I see some new hands on deck with real promise. Guys like Jair, Rayburn , Timo, Santiago.
A ballteam is a continuously evolving thing. it has to be.
and I have every confidence DD and JL will put together another very competitive team for us for 2008. I’m looking forward to it
but I don’t think they are gonna find even a .400 hitter who can hit a game-winning homer *every* time he’s called on with that opportunity
We’ll put together a very competitive team. I have every confidence. But we’ll need some luck too, — we’ll have to check on that part!!
It’s very clear the Tigrs need prototypical home run hitter.
There has been a lot of criticism about the pitching this year and we had a run of outstanding hitting early in the season. BUT… Down the stretch we did not get clutch hitting and we did not get the 2 and/or three run home run that can vault you into the lead.
It is quite simply missing from the lineup.
Sheffield will not be able to do it. He might get 25 next year IF he is healthy.
Ordonez is not a prototypical HR hitter.
Thames can’t play every day.
Hessman will likely be in Toledo again.
Larish isn’t ready.
Unless we get this dangerous presence and ability to change the game with one swing of the bat, inserted in the middle of the lineup, then we will spin our wheels again and be equally disappointed in 2008.
Nobody wants to hear about Adam Dunn or Jack Cust-but these guys swing from the left side and though they strike out (fit right on this team wouldn’t they?) they both walk an awful lot and would fill that left field spot rather nicely. Dunn’s a bit pricey but Cust could be a real sleeper. He has hit a bunch this year and in far less than 400 at bats.
My guess is that DD will deal away Thames and I think they will see what Hessman can do in the OF. That’s not what I want to see, but I have a feeling they may try a Frankenstein project and build their own.
That’s not what I would want to see either. If you’re going to play Hessman in the OF, you may as well play Thames. Marcus just got under that bases loaded pitch from Betancourt. He put a good swing on it.
Sheffield hit nearly all of his homers in a two month period. I’m not convinced he can’t be the homerun guy, but he has to stay healthy. We were rolling when he was on.
The funny thing about Cleveland this season is they have a lot of guys with 18-25 homers who hit them in key spots, much as we did last year. We really fell short this season with Inge and Monroe. If C-Mo had had any kind of success, we wouldn’t have been seeing Maybin and Raburn. I like Raburn, but he’s not the long ball answer by any means.
Hessman is what he is; a journeyman minor league slugger. Thames could hit 30 HR’s with 400 AB’s. The Twins won 4-5 divisions, not with prototypical HR power, but good hitters. it can be done, but the mighty swing does make life easier for a manager. An injury free starting 5 takes care of the HR shortage.
You’re dead on it there, David. The thing with Thames, he owns lefthanders. He has more trouble with righties, but he’s never really gotten the opportunity. By opportunity, I mean the long haul. You can’t put him in the lineup everyday then give up on him after a day, a week, a month. Give him those 400-500 ABs and see what you get. He’ll never hit righties if he doesn’t face them. Same can be said of Granderson from the other side.
If you came up with a Thames clone that hit lefthanded……well, you’d have the 1950s New York Yankees. Whoever that would be, Cust or whoever, would get the majority of ABs however. Anyway, if they keep Thames, then play him. Make him your leftfielder.
If Casey were to accept that pay cut like I’ve heard, and be happy with being a bench guy on a good team, like I’ve heard, why not keep him? He’s an excellent pinch hitter and injury insurance.
Guys, lets not sound like Red Sox Nation, ready to dismantle the team when it doesn’t go our way. The only thing the Tigers needed this year was H-E-A-L-T-H! If we had that, don’t you think we’d have 10 more wins right now?
At least some good came of it. I think we found some players that we didn’t know were major league ready(Raburn,Santiago,Jurrgens, Rabello, Perez) and found out who wasn’t (Miller, Maybin). 2008 means another year older and wiser for Verlander and Granderson. I think Illitch wants to compete now and I know DD does. They will certainly do some tweaking in the o/s and hopefully find some fiery competitors which is something we lack. I see these other contenders and you can see they hate to lose. With the Tigers its more like “oh, guess it wasn’t our day”. Anyway, I think we’ll be alright. My final wish for 2007 is to get to 90 wins which I still think we have a shot at.
Every team which really succeeds needs a “Casey type player”. 4 million won’t cut it, but another year at 1.8- 2.1 million would be a valuable asset. Right on Rich; it would be a great move. He is good enough to be a steady performer, yet humble enough to know his role. That’s a rarity among today’s “stars”. And I think a lot of Tiger fans have over-reacted to this year. The strength of this team in the future is pitching. Remember, it was Porcello first for us. I’m convinced you have to develop 8 pitchers to get one quality arm for the big leagues. And we did have the luxuary of letting Sanchez go for Shef. Many major league teams would have slobbered to have a Vazquez or Tata, not even including a Jurrgens in their rotation, and we let Maroth go. Give Dave D a break; he traded Santiago for Guillen, along with the other Gonzalez, and look whose at ss in the last few days for us-Santiago. I have seen so much criticism of Leyland and Dombrowski, and Pudge, and Inge, and Shef, and Pudge, and Mags can’t field, and where’s Chris Shelton? I’ll tell you where he is; batting under 270 in AAA for the season with more strikeouts there than Brandon Inge. Am I frustrated at Inge and Pudge, and on and on. You better believe I am. But just wait; the pitching curse falls next year to Fausto,and CC, and Windmill Man, and Rafael Battencort, or whatever his name was. And allyou guys who griped all year about Todd Jones as a closer;
Let’s see what Joe Borowski does next year from the Indians. Hey, you all are loyal to the same team, The Detroit Tigers. Let’s just sit back and finish these last nine games. It’s still about pitching, and our minor league pitching is second to no one in the AL or the other league either. Oh well, we could bring back Randy Smith and draft thode quality players of 1998- 2002. I apologize fro acting like a “snot”
In my best Howard Cosell voice, “DavidTiger, telling it like it is.”
There is some overreaction to this year not measuring up to last year. We all reserve the right to criticize whomever we want at any given time, but personnel change is not the answer. The guys we have, if used correctly, are plenty good enough to compete, and good enough to win if the stars align as they must for any winner. I do believe, as I have all along, that Cleveland is in for a rude awakening next season, and I think Carmona will be the first to go down. We had 18 tough, close games with those guys, any number of which could have easily gone the other way.
I also believe that there will be one noteworthy trade made during the offseason, but have no idea who, when, and where. It’s been said that Santiago can’t stand up to a full season of regular play. I don’t know the reasoning behind that, but it’s what I hear. Well, it hasn’t been tried yet.
Most, if not all, of these guys will be back. Jones as closer included. Our “gang of characters.” A few less key injuries, a little less flu, and a bounce here and there and we’re back in fat city.
If Sean Casey accepts the kind of situation I outlined above, I will start my own fan club for him.
Anybody watching NL ball tonight? The Phillies overcame a 6-2 deficit to win in Washington. The Mets overcame a 4-3 deficit, scoring four in the ninth, only to have the Marlins get three of their own to tie it. After living and dying with my own team, it’s fun to watch the other clubs go to the wire. Bottom of the tenth now.
With the AL all but set, I’m hoping for the Cubs and Phillies to get in. The Cubs just because they’re the Cubs, and the Phillies because it would make for some entertaining baseball with their fans and that little ballpark.
OK David, I like the idea of keeping Casey. And I agree with most of your other thoughts too. Yeah, I’ve ground out this entire 162 game season and griped and criticized and whined the entire way. I’ll give you that. It’s entertaining. But you go too far dissing one of my favorites, Chris Shelton:) And actually I forgave Magglio long ago for his defensive play. He can still track a ball down at the wall. And his hitting is a beautiful thing to watch. That wild windy game way back in early April fairly or unfairly set the tone for many criticizing his RF play.
It’s obvious we’re not all on the same page here. That’s what makes it fun though, and will make for interesting discussion in the months to come. JT, your last blog was right on. Am in total agreement. Now that hate thing yesterday was a wee bit harsh… buuut therapeutic:) Can’t really get on that train for the long haul. But saying that, here’s a little fuel for the fire. Tom Withers a writer with the Associated Press-Cleveland…”Once top cats in the AL Central, the Detroit Tigers were tamed, declawed and chased away with a broom. The Cleveland Indians simply wouldn’t let them hang around. Not this year.” Then it goes on. Once top cats in the AL Central? What!? We won the wild card last year and made the playoffs for the first time in 19 years. Not exactly a dynasty brought crashing down. That’s weak writing, all of us here do better and for no pay. Oh well, people like to read that sort of hype when they’re on top. Anyway JT, a kinder, gentler “hating of guts” might work. For now we still have 9 more games to enjoy. You never know…..Go Tigers
I like the Cubs and Phillies too Rich
While in Cleveland, Marty, I had the “pleasure” of reading the game accounts in the venerable Plain Dealer. It was all of what you mentioned and more. It’s homer writing, to be sure, but it approached hysterical glee and mostly at our expense. They should cover their own team and lay off the jabs at the opposition. If we Tiger fans didn’t go to their games, they wouldn’t come close to a sellout, Dollar Dog Night or not (62,000 hot dogs sold, we accounted for four of those).
While on this subject, I have two more anecdotes regarding our dealings with the locals. You may remember I told of a guy Monday night who demanded of me that our Tigers keep the Yankees out of the playoffs. This was revisited yesterday afternoon as we left the park, on the way to being swept. A stadium employee of some kind was trying to be smirkingly sympathetic, I suppose, but he also encouraged us to keep the Yankees out of the playoffs. Sensing a theme here, I replied “We CAN’T keep them out of the playoffs if YOU GUYS keep beating us!” I guess he was taken aback, and mentioned that we could win 12 in a row. I answered back over my shoulder that there were only nine games left, so that WOULD be a miracle.
In the interests of fair reporting, I will say that one of their employees actually thanked me for visiting Cleveland. And spending my money there, of course, but the intent was a nice gesture on his part.
Wow, these people actually have succeeded in starting a rivalry, if I’m hearing what I’m saying.
I don’t think there will be a wholesale change either. I hope they have the courage and the wisdom to make at least one major trade though.
I’m not dissing the guys as I like most of them.
But you can’t fall into a trap of “hoping and dreaming”. You can hope and dream all you want with this roster and it still won’t matter one iota as far as being good enough to take the brass ring. It simply isn’t good enough. Like I said there are holes to fill. There will never be a perfect team but you do have to minimize the weaknesses.
Ordonez will be our right fielder. I would rather see him DH productively. Maybe I was exposed to too much Al Kaline in my youth, but he is frightful in RF. Some things you have to accept and I know he will be our guy out there next year. His playing every day now is likely going to cost him the batting title by the way. He is worn out and his heel has him running the bases like Steve Bilko.
I think they could have used him more in the DH role and it may have kept him fresh a little longer. No matter, these are simply the pursuits if individual triumphs and awards. The one that matters is history.
Leyland will play the regulars but if they drop 2 out of 3 to KC then it’s time to play the kids and have some fun.
Marty, I loved Shelton, but something really happened to his hitting skills. In the 61 series, Reds vs. Yankees, the Reds had a dynamo named Elio Chacon, who was can’t miss. Well 1961 was basically it for him. Shelton tried to become a HR pull fanatic, and lost the magic of driving the ball to right center. Shall we call him Pudge Jr.? My comment was based more out of frustration than a real attack on Shelton. I don’t apologize for what I said abut Hessman. He is a AAA HR hitter, and a good one. That’s all he will ever be.
See why I didn’t post? The Tigers win 10-2 when I shut up and enjoy the games. I couldn’t control myself before Cleveland and now look: they drop three and their season is done. I’m bummed. Making matters worse, I’m hanging out with my father-in-law this weekend and he’s a die hard Yankees fan. I have a hard time hating Cleveland or really anyone else in the Central division) but man, I can’t stand the Yankees.
On a related yet lighter note, check out this article on players that fans love to hate: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=keri/070917
Two Detroit highlights:
1) Three of the top most hated QBs are former Lions. (no surprise there).
2) Juan Gonzales– check out this quote: You think you hate him now, Tigers fans? Imagine what could’ve been. Had JuanGone accepted the $140 million offer from the Tigers, he’d just be serving out the end of his contract in the next two weeks.
Now that’s scary…
“If Casey’s an excellent pinch hitter and injury insurance.”
One of the things we’ve seen a lot is Guillen at 1st base and Santiago at Short.
There’s a lot to look at in all this.
What kind of shape is Sheffy in? Having a guy like Casey ready to step in here nad there is just plain good sense. Pinch hitter or DH or 1st base.
Besides, Casey is one of our most Colorful Characters.
What we do about pitching ( this is kind of staing the obvious but oh well )
~ will depend on what kind of shape Kenny and Bondo are in
I think Nate made very positive improvement when he came back from DL
So we are kind filling things in here a little, maybe~ 1-Verlander, 2-Robertson, 3-Jair
The next spots could clearly belong to Bondo and to the Gambler ( who is also one of our Colorful Characters ) but clearly what kind of shape these guys might be in is a key factor
I thought Buzzard had some promise on his start and I hope to see him in there throw some innings here as we close out the last ten games or so. We need to see him in action.
we need good set-up guys
Durbin, Miner, Grilli, Byrdick
These guys took some real heat during our August phase and It seemed to me — “FWIW” we gained significant strength in this critical area
Jones is a solid performer and I hiope to see another good season for him
Zoom needs to work on that curve he come up with more. If he shows up with good control with that curve and also on his heater and on his change he will be a killer shut-down man
FR has what it takes except consistency ain’t there. When the skipper hollers for help ya best be ready to play
overall pitching seems to have been our weak suit. our defense has been superberb; base running outstanding except for Casey but Casey is exempt in this department due to being a Colorful Character.
hitting has been very good, except for Inge at times but guess what: baseball playerws are not made by Intel: there’s no two alike. Inge is a superb 3d baseman and so he rates his stripes that way
but Leyland himself noted ya ain’t gonna win all the time with the bat. and when ya ain’t winning with the bat ya gotta play real baseball and that means pitching and fielding.
Fielding I think we are way good.
but pitching, and I think generally our analysis have agreed here,– pitching is the “area for improvement”
It’ll be most interesting to see what develops
some folks seem to think we need the players the Yankees have got
Nope to that; we need the Yankees to have them guys what they got
cuz guess what: we need somebody to beat next year besides the Tribe ( tee hee ) It’ll be fun, them guys all think they are the ball players