The sick get sicker

Add Pudge Rodriguez, Carlos Guillen, Todd Jones and Kenny Rogers to the list of those with this flu-like virus. Rodriguez is out of the lineup, but Guillen will play, and Jones will probably be available so long as he feels fine throwing. Rogers was feeling badly enough that he was sent back to the hotel, so he did not throw his side session today.

  1. Granderson, CF
  2. Thames, LF
  3. Sheffield, DH
  4. Ordonez, RF
  5. Guillen, SS
  6. Casey, 1B
  7. Raburn, 2B
  8. Rabelo, C
  9. Inge, 3B

Your bench is Infante, and presumably Pudge if there’s an emergency.


I love Justin but why the **** would they let him sit in the dugout all night so he spread this thing to everyone else? It’s bad enough Guillen is dealing with his sore knees, does he need to be sick on top of it. I hate to see Polanco out of there a second day, and Leyland should just stay away from Jones no matter what, considering how he looked with the first few batters last night.

Iknow–it’s early and Jurrjens has shown a lot to be happy about so far–but, can we please stop giving up big hits to the bottom of the order?

Andrew Miller got lit up pretty good in the first inning tonight. Gave up 5 runs on 4 hits and 3 BB.

Not exactly what the faithful were hoping for.

We have never really been in this game from the gitgo.

Pretty bad baseball not getting Granderson home from 3rd with no one out. We are not going to win a lo of games when the batters are not getting that runner home from third AND striking out in double digits.

This is the basis of my argument about Sheffield. THAT was a big AB that went quietly into the night.

Yes I know he got the single that put us ahead last night but there were NO out at the time and he had Ordonez coming up with still less than 2 out behind him–less pressure = more results. When Sheffield is at his best he is actually better under pressure. We have not seen that this year-decent stats, but.

Jurjjens pitched a really nice ball game. Wouldn’t be surprised to see him start 5 days from now again.

Granderson is a lock to get 20 triples now and I still maintain that he is the real key to the Tigers success the rest of the way.

At least we won one of these games but there are still some serious holes in this ball club going into September.

BTW–Miller did a pretty fair job in his 2nd and 3rd innings of work.

Maybin hit another homer for Erie tonight along with a double. He’s been on a tear since being promoted.

Zumaya is in for Toledo in the bottom of the 8th.

I hope we are not interested in any more minor league performances after this month is over. If we are it will be a bad sign.

I hope the guys are wearing those masks everywhere they go, especially on the plain.

The fact the matter is that you are not going to win any games when you cannot hit the pitcher. Jurrjens did pretty well, the only problem is that every mistake he made came back to haunt him.

Did anyone else think that CB’s strike zone was pretty lopsided? We were going crazy.

I have a little different take on Sheffields at bat, he hit a broken bat liner the one that ticked me off was Monroe swining at balls. Same with Rabelo swinging at ball four twice in the 9th. But not getting Granderson home from 3rd with no outs drives me absolutely insane. To me that is unexcusable baseball.

Anyway didn’t expect to win tonight and we didn’t. Oh Well.

Sorry didn’t mean to accuse Monroe of striking out on ball 4 it was Thames. Sorry Craig???

I was very pleased with Jair’s performance tonight. The Indians had five hits against him. Giving up four runs would generally make him a winner, but not this year. I thought to myself, Carmona has been beaten seven times this year. There is a possibility. After the third inning, I was focusing on Jurrjens. I just think that when you see a pitcher is confusing you a bit, try a bunt, do something. It reminds me too much of Shields, and this Gauden, and then look what we have coming. We need Polanco in the lineup for a little plate stabilty. I don’t know why Rayburn was being referred to as a journeyman by ESPN guys tonight. Finally, when you really step back and look, Cleveland played very poorly in their win

Hoped for the win but to be honest I didn’t really expect one. Jurjjens pitched a very strong game. For the most part he had good control and fairly matched Carmona with 104 pitches/62 strikes compared to Carmona’s 104/69. The 2 out, 2 run homer did him in, but he hung in there and kept pitching. I know it’s hard not to be biased but it seemed to me that the ump was giving Carmona a bit larger strike zone. Once ahead he got the Tigers to whiff at pitches well off down and outside the plate. Still, Jurjjens looked very promising. He appeared focused and relaxed. Wouldn’t mind seeing him again but the Tigers have to give him more support than that.

Raburn went hitless tonight(though I thought he beat out the grounder) but I still like him in the lineup. He’s the type of player who can get things going like he did last night. I agree with the consensus here, that Granderson should be in the lineup every day. He is a tremendous asset to this team, and has a chance for 20 steals, 20 HR, 20 triples, 20 doubles, a rare accomplishment. He flat outplayed Sizemore in this series, saving last night’s game and doing all he could to win tonight’s game for our Tigers. So leave him in JL but create ways to get Raburn into games, because he adds a spark and compliments Curtis well I think.

I liked last night’s lineup. Tonight Carlos showed signs of the bug he contracted and I might have rested him and given Omar another shot after the job he did last night. How about Grilli?…3 pitches, 2 outs recorded. He does better away from Comerica. JL has no intentions of giving up on him…at least that’s my thinking.

I really didn’t expect a win tonight either. You’ve got a ML debut from a class AA pitcher going against arguably the best pitcher in baseball at this time, plus a clubhouse full of sick and becoming sick players.

I attribute tonight’s lack of offense to one Fausto Carmona. That guy was devastating on this day. I also hope we’re not going to point out every single occasion that Sheffield doesn’t get the clutch hit. Sometimes, you have to credit the other guy.

I did like Jair, or JJ as it would be simpler to call him. Of course, when the hitters don’t know the pitcher, he’s liable to look good at least one or two times through the order, but what impressed me was his poise and control. These youngsters can help themselves a lot by not walking a bunch of guys and he did that. I don’t know how much he helps this season, but if tonight’s performance was an inkling of what he’s about, I see good things from him. I repeat, I was really impressed with his control.

I’m going to say this now. If the Tigers win the division, it will be one of the guttiest performances in recent memory. You’ve got the difficulty of repeating, along with a rash of untimely and long lasting injuries, and now the flu for the second time this year. It’s the flu thing that put me over the top. How can that happen? How can your team get the flu just at the beginning of an exceedingly crucial time of the year? Who’s going to have it by gametime in New York tomorrow night? I’ll tell you one thing, nobody’s going to feel sorry for us. By the ninth inning tonight, Leyland wasn’t looking too hot to me either. He may be next.

It’s just one hurdle too many in my book.

I will always point out what I see or think I see. My point about Sheffield is not bash him but I can’t be happy with superstar idolatry. He has been a big reason that the Tigers have had success. But he is not the be all and end all. He can’t simply be “Sheff” and that’s all there is to it. He needs to contribute frequently in the clutch. He needs to be more than a presence. Tonight was one of those times that you want your big time players to come through and do something spectacular when you most need it. No, I won’t be pointing out every time he fails to come through but I am saying in general that he is failing to come through and that I hope the players and the coaches pick him up and not rely on him or his presence to the exclusion of making things happen themselves.

I have a different expectation from someone like Pudge. What a fantastic catcher and a Hall of Fame lock for what he has done in his career. But does that mean you accept poor performance? I don’t think it is right to keep doing something wrong over and over again. He needs to figure out what is wrong and contibute more.

Guys are going to go into slumps. Our team is no stranger to this but the one vulnerability that worries me is the collective groupthink that sometimes transforms the team from one of the best to one of the worst.

Right now they need a leader. Curtis is the only guy on this team that can ignite the team effort.

Ordonez has been an offensive juggernaut but they need someone else to step in and become a dominant offensive force. This is what they got Sheffield for. It’s time for him to go to work.

Some of the regulars are dragging and they need some inspiration.

One of the nicest things about this forum is that all the posters here have never really gotten on each other even though they may vehemently disagree. I hope it stays that way through what is going to be some difficult days ahead for Tiger fans.

Sorry Dan I just disagree didn’t mean to sound like I was getting on you.

I do think that Pudge needs to something different at the plate. I know that he is a somewhat streaky (sp?) hitter, but this has gone on a little too long for him??

And as far as Sheffield, the only thing that frustrates me is his infield or foul popouts?? It drive me insane.

The other thing that really concerns me right now other than pitching and the overall health of this team is the bottom of the lineup. Last year one of the things that brought us success was the power at the bottom of the lineup Brandon, Craig and Thames all had by this time probably close to 20 homeruns if not more and they aren’t going to get close to that at this point. Other teams I feel look at them as easy outs now, instead of someone that they have to be real careful with. Although obviously this offense is real good, just not scary good at the bottom.

Really nervous about the next 11 games, I hate to be pesamistic about it but the way we are playing the Yankees scare the **** out of me. Why are we the only team that didn’t play them early in the year when they stunk. Baseball gods are working against us.

Nah, we’re not getting on each other by disagreeing over a point. In fact, we all usually agree on things at any given time. There are some forums out there which I’m sure you’re all familiar with where the participants actually resort to calling each other names, dividing the group into opposing camps, and where longtime posters seem to want to rule the board. I never see that here, which is the reason it’s the only forum I post on. Any well thought out opinion is more than welcome.

As far as clutch hitting goes, I don’t know, it seems anybody can hit a couple of late game homers over a ten day span and be dubbed “Mr. Clutch” for years. I thought Sheffield’s Tuesday night hit was clutch regardless of number of outs and who was on deck because it came in the tenth inning of an August head to head matchup for first place.

Regarding Sheffield, this weekend is going to be very interesting. The New York media is poised to pounce on his “controversial” comments from earlier this season. He’ll probably receive a somewhat less than warm reception from the Yankee Stadium throngs. The interesting part will be how he reacts. The story could be that he fails miserably, or it could be all about how Sheff began the demolition of the old ballpark early. It will probably fall somewhere in between. What he brings is a total game, and while the media might zero in on his hitting stats for the series, what I’ll be looking for is what he does to affect the outcome of each game, either through baserunning, drawing walks, or how he changes opposing strategies by his sheer intimidation factor.

And he could catch the flu and not play at all.

Pudge may be just wearing down finally. I think he’s played more than he would have if Wilson had been present, and that’s not to put down the positive contributions of Rabelo. It certainly looks like Pudge has already decided to swing or not swing before the pitch is thrown. Heck, maybe he’s always done that and now he’s guessing wrong? Anyway yeah, strangest approach I’ve seen.

There are times when a team needs to be at or near full strength and this is one of them. Looks like we won’t get that. What a season it’s been. Like Tuesday night, guys are going to have to step up. We started the year with talk of our 32 man roster and I think we’re over 40 players used now.

GK-absolutely no problem as far as I am concerned. The only thing I get upset about with you is that you keep going to the games! (LOL)

What a huge series. First of all it’s the Yanks.

Secondly, Cleveland gets to battle Tampa Bay,

and lastly, the Yanks are contenders for the Wild Card, so they will be pretty motivated.

Best case scenario is that Sheffield goes back to the Big Apple and punishes the Yanks and the baseball. If Sheffield is crushing the ball the Tigers are going to win. If he’s not then I can see this club slipping into another torpor. We need him AND someone out of the blue (Thames? Monroe? Guillen?) to step up and supply some power.

Hopefully Ordonez continues to hit the way he has been.

I’m taking in a music festival this weekend and will miss the final 3 games of the series. I hope it doesn’t end up being a major disappointment like the last time I missed a series (vs. the White Sox).

Let’s hope the starters finally come around and Bonderman get’s through that darn 1st inning on Sunday.

I hope Guillen can start playing up to capacity soon. He is struggling and I think he is more worn out than Pudge at this stage of the season. It is almost a foregone conclusion that he will be playing somewhere else (i.e. another position) next year.

Verlander getting over the flu is a concern. He thrives on being strong and he will obviously have to make some adjustments out there today.

Who knows? Maybe it might just be the situation that makes him rely on his stuff more than his fast one and he learns something important from it.

Missing three games? What are you going to, Woodstock? Steer clear of the brown acid. 🙂

No homeruns, no wins. That’s how the Tigers beat the Yanks in the playoffs. Pitching and 3-run homers. Earl Weaver ball.

Grilli comes in last night with bases loaded and one out and gets the doubleplay. Always just barely enough to stay with the club, isn’t it?

In this age of “situation specialists”, perhaps JL can make him a “situational RHP road trip reliever”!

Dan I know I have considered not going to anymore games believe me. I frankly did take their losses on my shoulders. But then I decided that they have lost an aweful without me there lately?? My 94 year old Grandmother (rabid Tiger fan for 80 years) called and asked me how much it would take to get me to stop going to the games. You are not the only one that has concerns.??!!!

I don’t mind saying that playing the Yankees the next week scares the **** out of me at this point. Begining of July I would say bring it on. Now the way we have been playing, the injuries and now the freaking flu?? Boy it couldn’t have come at a worse time. I would feel like we fortunate to get out of there with 2 wins. Anything less, I am in a mental hospital and anything more than that I might be out of my mind with glee???!! Why couldn’t we have played them in April and May when they stunk?? Baseball gods continuing to screw the Tigers.

“Situational RHP road trip reliever”…that’s a good one Dan. Lately the situation has been “we’re behind and need someone to keep “behind” from getting “farther behind”:) Have fun at the festival Dan. GK, please keep going to the games, it’s not your fault, at least I don’t think it is:) I believe in statistics not superstition so the Tigers should win the rest of the games you attend. They have to play at least .500 GK ball.

I think Shef is due and I think he will come through against the Yankees. I have no inside knowledge of this obviously (if I did I’d be changing careers), but I just think he will. As we saw at the beginning of the year he can beat you a lot of different ways. He’s smart and intense. Maybe he has tried too hard here lately instead of just letting it happen. Thus the pop ups. My suggested approach for him would be to go out there with a plan to take whatever they are willing to give him, a walk, a single, a stolen base…whatever. Subtly be a pain in their backside. The HR will eventually come. I would want him to be as “invisible” as possible, and lead by example. That’s what worked early in the season when the hits for him and the entire team weren’t coming. We get in this mode where we half hope, half expect him to hit one out every time he bats. More often than not it will end in failure, statistically. But he did have the game winning RBI single the other night, and it got overshadowed by Ordonez’s HR. So I hope he doesn’t get caught up in a mental mode where he feels he has to prove anything. Get the ego out of the way and let the baseball mind take over.

All good comments here. Rich, I agree, you knew they were going to use every bit of 40 players to finish this thing. I have to say, I appreciate the calming effect your comments make. You don’t panic and kind of keep things in perspective around here.

You know what’s really scary? When you think something out or analyze a situation, and think you’ve solved all the problems, or maybe related some “clever” anecdote, and then not a living soul responds. Happens a lot to me lately. Kind of unnerving.

The only thing I don’t like about playing the Yankees is that since I’m in their market, I get blacked out of the games on mlb. Looks like Game Day or the radio. Dan, how do you do it?

Marty, you don’t get YES network? I thought that was one of those channels that was included in any basic package. It’s not? Or are you one of those unfortunates who get stuck in that twilight zone where you don’t get the local feed but you’re still blacked out from MLB?

It’s funny, I used to listen to baseball on the radio all the time but now I’m completely spoiled. I feel like I’m missing everything if I can’t actually see it. Case in point: Inge made his famous mental gaffe the other night when he thought he had an inning ending forceout at thirdbase. As it turns out, Vance Wilson taped the official baseball rules regarding forceouts to Brandon’s locker. So a couple nights later, here’s Brandon ending the inning with an appropriate forceout at third, and I’m immediately looking for the fun. Yep, Inge has a rather embarrassed smile and the ever sharp FSN camera shows Wilson in the dugout doing some kind of wardance or something. That stuff is priceless and goes a long way in enhancing my enjoyment of baseball, win or lose.

Thanks for the compliment, I think I’ve become Jim Leyland. I don’t think my wife has realized it yet. 🙂

Your comments on Sheff are right on. I think when he came back from the shoulder injury he tried to do the spectacular rather than just letting the game come to him, something he’s usually very very good at. After seeing his reaction to getting plunked by Baltimore’s Cabrera earlier this year, there may not be a girder left standing of The House That Ruth Built by Sunday evening.

GK, you’re not the one causing those Friday night home losses. It’s actually a guy who sits in the row behind you, about ten seats over. He’s the one. Look for him next time. It’s written all over his face.

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