Still going this offseason
Somebody here asked, so yes, the blog will still be going during the offseason. It won’t be quite as much news on a regular basis, and it might have more links to other articles that might be of interest, but I hope to keep the discussion going. No matter how much or how little the Tigers do, it should be a good winter to follow. And the way the NFL season is going, it’s not like there’s much else better to do.
One piece of news I can pass along is that the Nationals have not requested permission to interview Tigers coaches Lloyd McClendon or Gene Lamont in their thus-far secret managerial search. It looks like the A’s and Rangers have their lists of finalists set.
Finally, if you haven’t seen this yet and are looking for a good piece of reading, check out Wright Thompson’s piece on Kenny Rogers’ old high school teammates on ESPN.com.
Jason Beck
Thanks Jason, that’s good news.
With the Nationals being my local NL team, I had been wondering myself about them hiring Lamont. I’d prefer Gene stay in Detroit, though.
Funny you should mention Kenny Rogers, because he’s the reason I signed in to post today. I had been on another site where they were STILL obsessing over that pine tar thing. Fed up, I looked back at one of Rogers’ poor starts this season and, sure enough, there’s the tell-tale smudge on his pitching hand. I think he’s had that smudge all year myself. The thing is, it took me all of ten minutes to find a picture and make a copy which resides on my computer now. You’d think all those experts over at ESPN might have tried the same thing.
This guy just turned in one of the greatest postseason pitching performances in history, and he’s not getting credit for it.
Thanks Jason for continuing your blog through the offseason. I enjoyed the piece on Kenny Rogers’ high school teammates, but was hoping to gain more insight into his personality and life during those years. But when you think about it, he really only played in his senior year, and then only right field(As a left hander, I can empathize with him). With no pitching experience, and being left handed, what other realistic opportunities would he have had? First base maybe. But the coach probably already had his pick firmly entrenched. Guess everything worked out pretty well for Kenny after all.
To be honest, when I first heard that the Tigers had signed Rogers I was not overly enthused, given the problems he had had in 2005 and some previous seasons for that matter. I was never really a Kenny Rogers fan. But, in fairness to him, I couldn’t give you a sound reason why….except, well he was a Yankee. When a player plays for your team, it is much easier to overlook any personality flaws. After a while you get to like the player, especially after watching his successes and knowledge of the game quickly rub off on the team. You could make a strong case that he, more than any other player or coach, was the biggest reason for the Tiger turn around this season.
I suspect that much of the baggage he carries, his attitude, temper, has somewhat to do with flaws or weaknesses in his character, and he would probably be the first to admit that. But I also think that some of the places and circumstances he has found himself in over the past few years haven’t helped. He is a tremendous competitor and fighter, and probably has a difficult time controlling negative emotions when things aren’t going well, especially if the fans and media start chipping away. With the Tigers, it has been a very good fit for him. It could have gotten nasty had he stumbled early, but thankfully that was not to be the case. With this team, the expectations and pressure placed on him were minimized to a large degree. That was the key I think.
He and Casey were the lone bright spots for the Tigers in the World Series. As for the pine tar, yeah I was disappointed in the whole incident and in him. While it was blown way out of proportion, he still had that substance on his hand, which is illegal. He proved that it wasn’t the edge he needed when he continued pitching flawlessly after wiping it off. So I was disappointed because I think he needlessly shot himself in the foot and will now be remembered for one more negative thing. That’s unfair and is a shame.
While I’m disappointed in him, I’m far far more proud of his accomplishments. He pitched 23 consecutive scoreless innings in the post season not because of a little foreign substance, but because he is a very very blessed and talented pitcher, and he found himself smack dab in the middle of the “zone” at the perfect time. We had the privilege to witness something not just special, but extremely rare, and as far as I’m concerned any loser attempts to diminish that are…well…loser attempts.
It’s killing me to second guess at this point, but might he have set the all time record for consecutive scoreless innings had he started game 5? We’ll never know now. Could have been history, regardless of any comeback by the Tigers… I had to get that out.
Can he have another year like this year? If he did I would think the Tigers would most likely be in the post season again. I think he could but the probability becomes less over time. If he does struggle or disappoint at some time in the season next year, I would hope that the Tiger fans would remember him for what he gave this team in 2006, and give him the respect that he earned. I hope one day he looks back on his carreer and remembers fondly his time in Detroit as his best. When he proved he was one of the greatest “professional” pitchers ever.
How ironic, when you think about it, that Tiger pitchers made so many costly errors, with arguably the best fielding pitcher in baseball watching from the dugout.
Didn’t mean to devote this entire entry to Kenny Rogers, but…hey,why not. Plenty of time to talk about other issues.
I was thinking, that it would be good to try and focus discussion on one topic at a time… Like that’s gonna happen. I mean if it were possible. For instance, Dan you mentioned none of the first 4 Tiger batters being in the right lineup spot. If Granderson is not the right leadoff guy, then who would be, assuming there is no one on the present roster who fits? And if the Tigers look for one, where would he play? Who would then sit or be traded? I’m not even close to figuring that one out.
Will Casey be signed? He “was” the Tiger’s World Series offense. Shelton? Maroth? Does anyone have a no trade clause in their contract? Thoughts?
Great piece on Rogers. I keep asking myself what’s next? What are Dombrowski, Al, and Jimmy got up their selves for next year? In the middle of september I was looking at who were going to become a free agent aroung the league and I then relized that the Tigers only have $58 million dollars guarented for 2007.So my question is this, we all know that Miller needs to build up his arm in the minors for aleast one year. So why not go after Schmidt? I know that we have Humberto and another handful of young arms in the minors.THE MINORS. Schmidt has been critized alot in the media but he has pitched 30 games the last few years. Also Rogers is 42, I mean he is near the end. And like Kenny said his spot is ready to be taken. So why not? A rotation of Rogers,Schmidt,Verlander,Robertson, and hopefully Bondo can be resign. Trade a young unproven pitcher for more relief, And dominant again with pitching. They will sign either Lee,Soriano, or if Guillen can play short trade for Teixerxa. Then when Maybin comes up and pulls a Puljos on the world we will be the most dominant team since the late 90′s Yankees. More pitching now, Maybin this or next year, I will be disappointed if the Tigers don’t pull of 10 or more years straight in the playoofs.
I’m not sure about 10 years straight in the playoffs. You can try to duplicate those Braves teams with their farm system, but Atlanta also had the advantage of their division. The Tigers have at least two general managers in the same division who base their teams around the farm system, too. The Tigers are built to contend for several years. Whether they can get in every year depends a lot on what happens to Cleveland, Minnesota and Chicago from here on out. Other than the Yankees with their spending, I honestly don’t think you’ll ever see the kind of run the Braves have enjoyed again.
A quick note on the pitcher’s fielding gaffs: since the bulk of these were made by the youngsters, and taking Ledezma’s past difficulties into account, it led me to believe that someone along the minor league trail should have addressed this. Then I realized that, of course, these kids had very little minor league time, so all in all, this wasn’t surprising. You could make the same case for Inge, having learned thirdbase at the big league level.
I agree that the goal is to contend for the next few years. Some years you make it, some you don’t, but the idea is meaningful games in September, packed houses and putting more distance between the present and those woeful down years. How do you do this? Don’t mortgage the pitching, for one. I think we can carry pretty much the same staff into next season, with a couple of minor changes. At some point, Kenny Rogers will have to be replaced, obviously. I have a vision of him diving for a groundball and not getting up, figuratively speaking. He’s 42, after all, and plays pretty hard. I hope he doesn’t try to carry his postseason approach into the regular season, ala Curt Schilling a few years ago. You can’t treat every start like it’s Michigan-Ohio State.
I think there’s a real chance of landing Carlos Lee. He and Maggs are good friends, and there is a spot for him. Regarding the leadoff position, I don’t know who you can get for that. Soriano also strikes out a ton. I can’t imagine Granderson striking out 174 timies again. If you want a David Eckstein type, like many in this forum seem to want, that pesky guy who makes the pitcher work, gets the bat on the ball, well, you have Placido Polanco.
One more thought on trades. I’m going to suggest Fernando Rodney as being moveable. I say this because he’s what, 29 or 30 now, and we may be seeing the finished product. I look around MLB and I see a large number of equally talented relievers, so it’s not like he’s overly special. You have to give something to get something.
Hot Stove League??
There are a few “names” out there but I think a couple of components the Tigers need are power, youth and speed. Preferably from the left side.
I think they will try to keep Casey. He has a history with the club now, has shown he can perform on the world stage and has a good 2 years left in him. He seems to fit well with the club.
I think we could use a good YOUNG catcher-(LHB would be nice)
I think we need a right fielder. To me Ordonez is expendable or give him a DH role and bat him 3rd or 5th.
Any of the possibilities below mean parting with players and cash–mitigating factors, to be sure. Given the stature of some of these players my opinions are based on what we might have to give up not simply wanting them on our club.
Gary Mathews is out there but he does not have good base running skills and there is no point having 2 centre fielders (unless one of them moves to RF!!)–I’d say NO
Soriano–RHB but scads of speed and he is likely going to get better. He is in his prime right now. I wouldn’t lead him off but one could entertain the thought of plying him at SS and moving Guillen to first (providing they keep Polanco). Yeah I know, he will make a lot of errors. I’d say —Maybe
Klesko—NO
Luis Gonzales—-NO
Aubrey Huff—-Maybe (he is versatile)
Julio Lugo—-NO
Carlos Lee–Interesting but NO
Ramirez—NO
Bonds—-NO
Overbay—Yes,
LaRoche—Yes, (26 years old)
Don’t you just envy the Twins? Morneau and Mauer are both young, powerful in key positions and together earned less than $800,000 lst year!
Guys you can build a franchise around:
Jose Reyes
Ryan Howard
Guys- I’ve read your posts all year and have really enjoyed the banter. My dad is an old school Tigers guy– I’ve heard tons of Mickey Stanley and Lolich stories and my team for the ages is ’84– Gibby will always hold a special place in my memory bank. The World Series depressed me for a few days (okay, I’m still bummed) but I love that this team rekindled my love for baseball. I’ve always been a fan but it was tough to enjoy baseball during the lean years.
In any case, I’ve been thinking quite a bit about next year- so that I could quickly forget the World Series– and I think that one way to get a strong bat without giving up any proven pitchers is moving Guillen to first and trading for Tejada. (I’d trade Sanchez– his injury scares me.) It doesn’t solve the left handed issue so that would need to be addressed at DH (Casey?). I live in the DC area and I’ve gotten a chance to watch Tejada. He’s a great leader, wants to win, plays good defense, is patient at the plate, would be the ideal clean-up hitter that the Tigers lack, and– most importantly– the Orioles need pitching and would most likely part with Tejada. If this happened, here’s my projected lineup:
Granderson CF (left) He’s not ideal but he’ll do better. if not, flip-flop he and Inge.
Polanco 2B (right) Perfect spot for him– I’m still bitter he was moved in the Series
Guillen 1B (switch) ideal #3 hitter
Tejada SS (right) big bat that the Tigers lacked all year
Ordonez RF/DH(right) still solid, 5 is a better spot for him
Monroe LF (right) stud in the making, protects Ordonez
Casey/DH/RF (left) just need a lefty with a decent bat
Pudge C (right) he’s aging but still hit .300 and great defense
Inge (right) He’ll do better in all phases next year.
I agree with Joe Morgan (I couldn’t listen to McCarthy and Buck so I dealt with the radio delay) that Craig Monroe is poised for a breakout year next year. He has way too much talent to hit as poorly as he did for much of the year. Recognizing this potential and the fact that Ordonez’ contract makes him untradeable (unless the Yankees decide they want him), I just don’t see the sense in pursuing Soriano and/or Lee. Sure, we can afford one of them next year but that could limit our ability to retain our young pitchers as they near free agency. Additionally, if Maybin turns out to be half as good as advertised, they won’t need one of these guys. Finally, if it turns out that they need someone like Lee/Soriano, they can always trade a young pitcher halfway through the year next year to get someone of a similar caliber.
Alright, that’s enough for my first post. I look forward to the Tiger’s moves and to many years of continued excellence.
Towards the end of the year, my suggestion was to trade for Tejada(who wants out of Baltimore), and sign Soriano. Put Ploanco on third, Soriano moves to second, Giullen to first.
My lineup:
Soriano 2B
Polanco 3B
Guillen 1B
Tejada SS
Ordonez RF
Monroe LF
Casey/Thames DH
Rodriguez C
Granderson CF
This puts Inge back in the role of “super-sub”, but with Leyland giving so many days off, he’ll still get at least 300 at-bats. Batting Granderson ninth isn’t a “demotion”, it would give the Tigers two straight lead-off hitters after the first inning, and give Soriano a chance to drive in some runs.
Sine this is just a “wish list”, I would love to see Jason Schimidt in our rotation as well. Sometimes, when a team has a couple of superior prospects(Verlander and Zumaya), there is a tendency for the fans and writers of said team to over-value other prospects that don’t have quite the same stuff, trying to include those players in their excitement. Personally, I think Ledezma, Sanchez, and Miner fall into this second-teir group. They would bring value in trades. A couple of them and possibly Inge with Gomez just might bring Tejada……(I wonder how I’d feel if I were one of the above ballplayers, and was reading this, having my name so easily bandied about….probably not real good….ahh well).
Of course, that’s a lot of money for tow ballplayers(Tejada and Soriano), but the above lineup is formidable, to say the least. In my opinion, our offense is what stopped us this season, and partly contrbuted to the many errors in the W.S. Our pitchers knew the games were going to be close, we weren’t scoring, and the ball got a little sticky in certain situations(no offense to Kenny, of course).
Thanks Jason, for giving us amatuer GM’s a forum to express an opinion.
I’m throwing this out there just for fun. Is it possible that the more runs your offense scores, the more runs your pitchers are liable to give up? Less pressure and all that?
I’m thinking of the White Sox.
Brent, sounds like we’re nearly neighbors, I say “nearly” because I don’t watch the Orioles unless they’re playing Detroit, so I’m guessing there’s still quite a bit of distance there.
Brent and Scratch, I guess trying to acquire Tejada would depend on whether Sean Casey is re-signed. Also, I doubt there would be money for both Tejada and Soriano, I think Alphonso is going to ask the moon, with Mars and Jupiter thrown in as incentives. In addition, I think we’re going to have to be generous with Bonderman. This is all up to the Big Boss, it’s his money. He didn’t seem to mind parting with it when it came to the Red Wings.
I’d rather see Soriano DH, he’s a real liability in the field.
Press,
yeah, I know…..but one can dream, no?
If either Tejada or Soriano is the choice, give me Tejada. Would release Guillen to play first.
There needs to be a big bat in the middle of this order however, and I don’t think he is currently on the roster. Monroe might get 100 rbi’s next year, buet he can be very inconsistent. Maggs probably will as well, but he doesn’t truly scare anyone. Guillen would benefit from having someone get on base more often from the lead off position, but he has proven he has a hard time playing the entire season. Casey’s 100 rbi days are behind him.
The only player currently on the roster I could see turning into “that” kind of hitter, is Granderson, and he is still at least a year away.
My suggestion would be that the tigers try to keep their lineup intact but try and trade for a fine left handed sluger and re sign Jamie Walker.