What if?
Something to think about for what’s left of the off day and into Friday: Somebody said to me the other day that now that the Tigers are in a pennant race, they must look back at the trade deadline and have second thoughts that they didn’t do something bigger. I basically dismissed it. Even if you knew this race was going to be close down the stretch, I still don’t believe you give up Cameron Maybin in a deal for Alfonso Soriano — not if you believe Maybin is a star player in the making, and not if you can’t feel confident Soriano is back here next year. And if you play Monday morning QB on a Carlos Lee trade, you have to ask yourself how much trouble this team would be in with less pitching than they have now, and possibly without Craig Monroe if he had been included.
But I’ll left you folks debate that. Do you now wish the Tigers would’ve pulled the trigger on a big trade back in July? How much better would this team be right now with someone like Soriano, and how much worse off would they be down the road?
One more note: If you’re one of those fools who’s glad that Francisco Liriano is hurt, then I’d like to introduce you to Northern Colorado’s backup punter.
Jason Beck
I think it’s easy to second guess not making a major trade when the team is struggling, everyone does. Do you really get excited over Sean Casey? He seems like a nice guy, but he’s not Lee or Soriano. I think at the trade deadline, the Tigers thought things were ok. Young and Maroth were going to come back giving them a starter and a power left handed bat. You can’t predict injuries and fatigue, nor can you predict that things were not going to work out with Young. The team has the talent to make the playoffs as it is. They seem to need to relax and have fun. Be more patient at the plate and don’t try to do too much on the mound. That’s my two cents
I’ll tell you, I didn’t want them to make any trades at all at the deadline. That’s been my consistent thought and still is.
If Soriano is right for this team, let’s sign him over the winter. I’ll let the professionals decide if he’s right, I wouldn’t pretend to know.
I for one am glad we did not mortgage the future for Soriano or any of the other big name players just so they can leave as a free agent. I think too often teams make trades just to make a trade to show people that they are doing something. The Casey trade seemed to address the need of a left handed bat at the position where it was most needed. I have liked Casey through his career but he has not been the answer so far. While I don’t like to jump ship too quick on players like some of you who would have bench Ordonez who has been one of the more consistent hitters in recent days, Casey has not worked out yet. Casey does not make many errors but he also seems to have limited range at first. It isn’t any better than Shelton was and Shelton’s defensive ability has been questioned before. Neither are fleet of foot. The main difference right now is one bats right and one left.
Soriano is a great player and has shown a good enough arm to have 20 assists from left field. However, how many homeruns would he hit in spacious Comerica Park. The added speed to the lineup would be a great benefit. With the stadium we play in, we need more players that can get on base, run, and move people around. Yes, we do need some homerun hitters too but we need people on first.
The lefthanded hitting firstbasemen I would have loved to have traded for was Todd Helton.
I still believe Andrew Miller will start next year in the minors, probably AA or AAA. The main question mark in the starting rotation will be Maroth. He is a great person but is he the answer. If he can hit the corners and learn from Rogers he can be a great pitcher. I would love to see him win 20 with the Tigers. However, he needs to cut down on the number of hits he allows. Good compliment to the hard throwers. I am interested to see what the starting rotation will look like the next few years, particularly 2008. Will it be Verlander, Bonderman, Andrew Miller, Humberto Sanchez, and Robertson or Maroth? Will Tata be in there? To think we may have traded some of these pitchers to rent a player for 2 months. I didn’t mind the Casey trade and hope he starts producing. I could have done without Perez though. Another player I hoped we would get in July was Todd Walker. He would have been a lefthanded bat that does not strike out and can hit for average. He also can play 1b, 2b, & 3b. Ok, I am done with my ramblings, time for the rest of the opinions. I know Dan will have one.
By the way Jason, love the humor regarding Liriano and introducing the backup punter to those who wish Liriano harm.
Jason, Nice piece done on Chris Shelton. Thanks. I agree with you. In fact I had my fingers crossed that they would make no trade at all. I was stunned when Shelton was sent down. They gave up on him. Now he sits the bench and only wonders what might have been. It hurt the chemistry of the team too. When Polanco was injured where was the confidence in Infante or Santiago? These guys had contributed to the early Tiger successes too. I don’t get it. The Tiger management had the chance to do the right thing and they didn’t. If Shelton is the future first baseman for the Tigers I don’t think you treat him like he was treated. And what must Omar be thinking? They didn’t show much confidence in him either, even as a backup. I don’t get it again. Nuff said, I take this way too personally for a man my age… Finally,if you’re going to make a big trade, do it in the offseason.
By the way Jeff, I like the straightforward logic (truth) to your blog. Your two cents pretty much nailed it. Hope someone is listening. Go Tigers!
Making the deadline trade for Soriano would have made no sense, indeed.
If the powers that be think he would be a good fit, why wouldn’t they wait until the off season, when we could get him and not lose any prospects??
I have never thought of this season as an end all, win or else proposition. After all, this is not fully a veteran team, whose window is closing shortly. No reason to panic, and deal our future away for this year.
Jason, of course no true fan of baseball is happy that anybody is hurt. While not being able to speak for everyone, I would guess that most of us appreciate talent in all its forms, and hope Liriano makes a full recovery, and soon.
There were no “bargains” this trading deadline, although you might be able to say that Abreu was close. However, Abreu doesn’t strike me as one who wants to be “the man”, and I have a feeling his production for the Tigers wouldn’t be as good as it has been for the Yankees, whose lineup he can “hide” in.
As a work in progress, the Tigers are progressing nicely. BUT, it is up to management to make sure they keep moving forward this off season. I am hopeful, that they will.
At the beginning of the season I projected the Tigers at 90 wins (oh, I hope I’m not right after all). I predicted dominating performances from Maroth and Bonderman, Rodney to rule the pen, and breakout seasons from Inge, Granderson, Monroe and Thames. Well, I was right about Monroe and Rodney continues to sparkle (Thames ‘story is more complex and it is still perhaps to early to write). I thought Kenny Rogers would excell at Comerica and that Todd Jones would be a complete waste of time and money. I mean we already had Troy Percival (whose signing made me physically ill — Marty you’re not the only one who takes these things way too seriously) Jones has of course been terrific and my predictions have been pretty mediocre.
In May and June I made mental notes to save the sport section because I wanted to remember the date the Tigers were still in first place. By the time we got to July I was elated but I also saw a team with no leadoff leader and no cleanup guy. I thought our pitching is good but no way can it stay this good. I was wrong about that too because by and large our pitchers keep us in almost every game.
We’ve talked before here about what a true Tiger team is like and I think we agree that they are working class types, homegrown boys who come together and as a unit are something inexplicably more powerful and beautiful than the sum of those parts considered on paper or otherwise could ever be. They play agressive, smart, fundamentally sound, relentless baseball and of course, they hit a lot of home runs. We don’t go and buy players like ****** that go to the highest bidder and care for nothing but money. Sweet Lou played his whole career here in a time when that kind of thinking and those kind of values were not simply no longer really functioning in a meaningful way but even actually and openly ridiculed as quaint relics from a hopelessly bygone era. Those ieas and values are real to me and I think to the other people who write on this blog. If we ever forget tggr fan or Rich or Marty will certainly lower the boom.
Tiger blogs and Tiger fans are already making next years lineups and throwing around names like C.Lee and Crawford and Tejada and they are completely ready to condemn to oblivion other names like Inge, Granderson, Shelton Thames, Bonderman and Maroth — the same wonderful group of guys that have given them such an amazing year. That absence of loyalty, of decency even, and inability to see beyond next week really makes me sad and has driven me away from baseball more than once. I think I’m a lot younger than a lot of the guys on this site but maybe because I was raised in a small town in Michigan rooting for guys I knew year in and year out as my Tigers, proudly wearing that classic english D, I think I have similar values and I think I get it. But then again as I’ve said before I’m usually wrong.
Having said all that, as most of you know, — cause I wouldn’t shut up about it — I desperately wanted Soriano in a Tiger uniform for a myriad of reasons which ran the gaut from he’s my favorite player to the Tigers have no one who just scares you in their lineup. Trades are definitely better in the off-season but I’ll wager that Dombroski was almost as wrong as I was and probably pegged the team for over .500 or a little better, i.e., 85-90 wins. As rare as championchips are, and for us for the better part of 100 years they are coming no better than once every 20 years or so, it seemed to me that it was not only ethically justified to go to market for a power bat but absolutely necessary if we were going to go up against the Yankees and win the pennant.
The day after the deadline, the minute my alarm went off I scambled over to the computer to see if we landed Senor 40-40. As I read about Sean Casey I have to say that I was furious. It was like waking up Christmas morning and running downstairs to see your brand new Harley Davidson only to find some off-brand, beat-up, pink, no-speed bycycle with fridge hanging down fron the handlebars. You got to be kidding me, right??? Who is this pale, slow white guy with no power and a goatee and why isn’t he already playing for the Red Sox? (By the way I know the above is terribly unfair to the mayor but I’m being honest here not rational. I know he’s a good guy and a good ball player I just wish he played for somebody else) I wanted to call Dombroski and remind him that we already had a first baseman who had won us a lot of ball games and with all due respect to the fine people in Toledo, I don’t care where they finish in the standings, we need Shelton here in Motown. I’m apparently, younger or no, not nearly as mature as most of you, or as level-headed, because for me this season is everything. I have no reason to believe that this will happan again next year. Who knows? Mortage the future? Well maybe, it depends what kind of house you be talking about. Soriano could be 8 years of 40-40. Maybin had really better be all that to let this fish go. With a little lead and Soriano we could be a lock for the division and once we get into the playoffs our pitchers will take over. Imagine the fastballs Inge sees with Soriano on deck. We didn’t sign a hitter in the off-season we’re due one. Just one. Soriano. Maybe we get him in the off-season. But I’m not ready to talk about next year.
His numbers since the deadline: 13HR 11 2B 25 RBI .280 14BB .600 Slg. .348 OBP. Not phenomenal but typical Soriano work. Oh, and 12 SB.
There was no reason to assume that Soriano would be a rental. We had a couple months to woo him, potentially a World Series to help and after our brutal sports media here in New York, he might just love Detroit. He has been traded a lot recently but he is clearly an old-school player looking for a home.
A terrific piece on Shelton Jason, but really sad for me. I loved the title caged tiger with that photo of his swing at full throttle kept safely behind bars. You clearly have great raport with the players because they are always so honest with you. You’re definitely getting a different level of response than other guys on the beat. Its just that Shelton sounded even sadder than us. I can’t believe he hasn’t been given another chance. Its not right.
I aplogize for all the words Jason and everybody, I hadn’t planned to write more than 100 but now I’ve got to finish.
The only conclusion I can come to about management shortchanging me on Christmas morning was that like too many other “everything is great, we’re in first place” Tiger fans they were arrogant and thought all we needed was aleft-handed bat. A lot of tiger fans are still talking about Bobby Abreu (now that he’s doing so well, I don’t remember them being this excited before) but he was never coming to small market detroit. And what were we going to do with him we already have ordonez for 5 years and 75 million dollars(very similiar ballplayers though no one remarks on it; same age, both Venezuelan, they make about the same money, career numbers are very close except Abreu has a staggering on base percentage and plays a teerific right field. Though I don’t remember anyone looking for Abreu to bat clean-up). But if everything was so good why was Shelton banished to Ohio? And why, with the Tigers so desperately in need of runs has he remained banished.
And then to add insult to injury Dombroski decides to do his Brian Cashman imitation when Polanco goes down and he runs out to but someone we don’t need. Infante is a solid ballplayer who has paid his dues in Detroit and started contributing immediately, even before that fateful weekend when Dave talked to the Cubs. Truthfully, Infante gives us more pop than Polanco in the line-up and though he has some defensive struggles occasionally, he tends to make the outstanding plat regularly.(I love Polanco but we are seeing a little naive nostalgia lately. He has a fantastic average with runners in scoring position and never strikes out but he has 0 power and an awful on-base percentage — Rodriguez averages a walk every 27 official at-bats and thats better than Polanco) To give up our principals and finally go purchase a ballplayer mid-season and come back with the Nefarious one??? Some of you have remarked before about my Perez humor but I don’t know what you’re talking about. I’m completely serious and I’ve sent game film of Perez to an eminant marine biologist to see if he can make head or tail of it.
So, I guess I could have just said that I understand what y’all are saying but I wanted Soriano then and I haven’t changed my mind. And though I have grave doubts, doubts that gnaw at me and obviously keep me from sleep I demonstrably need, I’ll never, ever give up on my Tigers. It would be like giving up on Christmas.
Lots of teams seemed to be interested in Soriano, but nobody got him. I don’t think the Nationals were going to take less than too much for him, so I think the Tigers made the right choice.
I’ll be very interested to see how the off-season goes. It’s clear that the Tigers are a very different team than they have been for the last “few”
years and may not have to be quite as generous to get good players to consider playing in Detroit. – matt
Marty is right. It wasn’t broke on 7/31–why fix it? The chemistry was scratched by the no-confidence vote for Omar and especially Chris and pac-man.
Nice job Rube! Glad I didn’t take the time to go into detail because you covered everything, and your writing is more entertaining. For your sake alone I wouldn’t mind the Tigers picking up Soriano this off season.
I like your Christmas morning analogy. Christmas morning could never live up to our expectations. As kids we had all these dreams of what we wanted and then when all the paper was ripped and the boxes were opened, there was always an element of incompleteness. Like we had this list but Mom and Dad could never hope to fill it. The movie “A Christmas Story” illustrated this perfectly. Ralphy finally got his Red Rider BB gun but it was almost anticlimatic. And his poor little brother had to try on that idiotic pink bunny suit. We’ve all experienced that to some degree, at least metaphorically. That was pretty sad. I guess these are the materialistic demons we fight every day. Now that we’re older we still fight them; it seems we’re never truely satisfied. I could explore this thought further but heck, I’m even depressing myself. Let’s hope the Tiger present we got this year takes us to the playoffs and further. Because this is the team we got, and it HAS actually prooved over the long season that it’s a pretty good one.
Correction. That was RALPHY HIMSELF who had to put on that pathetic pink bunny costume!.. In case anyone noticed.
Go Tigers!
I noticed…………
I was hoping for Soriano too. He is an impact player with good speed and power who can play infield or outfield.
This would have given us some flexibility in the outfield when necessary but also would have been brilliant when Rock went down with his shoulder injury.
Water under the bridge and then there is the issue of what do you have to give up for him.
No maybe for Maybin for me. How about Maybin and Jones?
Anyway–that is a distraction and a moot point. We have to get on with righting the good ship S.S. Tiger.
Shelton in against southpaws and righties if he gets hot.
Perez rides the pine as an emergency replacement.
Infante plays until Rock can handle the rigors of the position.
Ordonez gets to DH if Thames is struggling.
Monroe does not bat 2nd.
Jones only pitches in the 9th with a lead.
Pinch Run with Santiago for Casey/Shelton or Ordonez when practicable.
Have Granderson try to steal some bases—I heard he had speed.
Don’t be afraid to have someone other than Vance Wilson or Hooper bunt.
Light a fire under Pudge–We need a leader with intensity.
Go out and have a few beers together. Don’t take Leyland.
And it would be real nice to win 5 or 6 straight right about now—you’ve done it before!
I noticed too and I adore the “Christmas Story” reference Marty. As I recall, the Red Rider is hidden behind the radiator or something so Ralphie must first taste his disappointment, and then with the bunny suit, his humiliation to the very last drop before he can experience his redemption with the gun. There are no end of metaphors for us in that sequence of events.
So my Tigers, watch how you tread out there on that field tonight, because you tread on our dreams. And be careful, because you could put an eye out.
Great post, rube……….and so true!!!
Of course, Monroe batting second only makes sense if the bottom of the order and the lead off man are getting on base semi-regularly. And, that isn’t happening right now.
Right now, I am worrying about Granderson. He is lost, and I am not sure there is anyone on the Tigers coaching staff that can “help” him figure it out. I really believe he is the prototype third hitter in the making………….if we can make sure his confidence isn’t so shot, he loses it completely.
1 game up, with two weeks left. Sheeeeeeeeeeeesh, who’d a thunk THAT statement would be so painful???
It would have been nice to of had Soriano in the top/middle of the line up down the strech, but in 2 years when we have an outfield of Maybin, Granderson, and Clevland and none of them older then 27 years of age we will have the youngest and one of the best outfields in the league.
After the trade deadline I went to watch Maybin play. I wanted to see for my own eyes if he was as good as the front office has made him out to be, He is even better. He threw out a runner, got to balls that Magglio lets fall in for doubles, and stole two bases. Not to mention that he is only 12 to 13 years younger then Soriano, (Soriano’s age is supposedly 30, I add 2 to 3 years for any latin born player). I wanted Soriano bad, but after going to Grand Rapids to see Maybin I understand Dombrowski’s logic. This year isn’t by any means lost,and at the deadline we did have the biggest division lead in the American League. I would rather be one of the best teams for the next decade then for one year. Dave has us not just going in the right direction, He has us in a posistion to be great for along time.
Absolutely, hoot.