Lineup/rotation stuff
All the expected days off are on, including Granderson out. Inge is leading off, not that the Tigers had a lot of solid options with Granderson and Pudge off and Polanco injured.
Robertson was understandably sore after that shot he took last night, and it’s likely he’ll have x-rays when the Tigers return home to make sure he doesn’t have a cracked rib. Leyland will give him an extra day before his next start if he can go, so it’ll be Bonderman Friday, Robertson Saturday and Ledezma Sunday against the Orioles.
Jason Beck
Rube,
Holy cow–You got your wish with Inge leading off. I hope the rest of your proposed lineup goes your way too.
I posted this a few minutes ago on the last topic and hope it doesn’t bother anyone for me to repost here:
I mean we can joke about these games being big all we want, but in fact this is probably the most important we will have played all year.
IF, we can beat Santana that has to give us some confidence back that we can compete against the best the league has to offer.
IF, we win, we restore a lead to 4 games over the Twins rather than (don’t gasp) 2 games.
We then get 2 days off out of the next 4 as we play Texas who are not playing all that well right now. Give us a chance to heal some nagging injuries (physical and mental).
One of the things I worry about though is premature congratulations from management. You know “we have had a good year, we’ve done more than we though we would,
We’re still in first place, I am proud of all you guys” etc etc etc. I think it counter productive and provides an excuse system for quitters.
This team has a chance to win the 2006 World Series of Baseball.
We need someone to make them realize that and also that what they’ve done so far is to put us in a pennant race –now we have to go out and win it.
We need Leyland saying something like, “Forget the losing seasons, forget the clubhouse despair. That’s history. BE the moment. Go out and be the athletes and the winners that you know you are”.
This is a good team, Leyland is a good manager. They need to settle for no less than perfection in effort.
Leyland also has to rein in his stubborness somewhat. I don’t care about next year–Miller is going to be awesome. GOING TO BE. He is not now. You want to throw him then make sure you have built a 5 run lead and 2 guys warm in the bullpen.
Now is not the time to prove you are the boss by making dubious player substitutions but by making these guys realize they have the power in their hearts to become a team of destiny—-this year.
I am a novice at this but I’m gonna give it a try and post my lineup for today. I think my lineup is a little unconventional but hey why not.
1.CF-Clevlen- I think he could give the spark this team needs. And he’s speedy.
2. C-Rodriguez
3. DH-Maggs Just a shake up move.
4. LF-Monroe
5. 1B-Shelton
6. 2B-Infante
7. RF-Thames
8. 3B-Inge
9. SS-Santiago
Dan, You’ve inspired me! OK, Inge leading off. Good call Rube! Let’s go get um!
Dan, I responded to your post on the previous topic, but I’m stubbornly going to leave it there. I learned that from the skipper.
As someone once said (about a million times), baseball is a simple game. The Tigers have to hit homeruns. That’s all there is to it. If they don’t, they lose. Simple. Right?
They picked out some good pitches last night (especially Guillen) but weren’t able to center them. Guillen, of course, was getting his stroke back, but Inge does this all the time. Thames implodes when he gets his pitch but fouls it off. He needs to finish the at bat. And all of them are fouling off the good pitches. And yeah, these are all symptoms of a batting slump.
I’m good with Wilson playing today. We’re going to need some bunts and small ball stuff, and he’s also had success against Santana. Grandy probably gave Leyland a big ol’ hug when he learned he wasn’t starting.
Well, we’ll just see how this plays out. They did hit Santana on July 30th. It’s going to be tough for Bondo, thinking he has to be perfect.
Two questions,both of which have unfathomable magnitude on the outcome of today’s game. 1. Rich how was the dance last night? and 2. Rube did you catch that chicken this morning? I think Bonderman might do well to close his eyes and simply visualize the entire Metrodome full of plucked chickens. Good thing we’re still here in the “cheep” seats.
The lineup mystifies me.
I mean Infante made an error yesterday that was forgivable IMO. The result was disastrous and unusual.
Today he is not in the lineup even though he is a RHB and clearly superior to Perez in every respect. This is the obstinance on Leyland’s part that really annoys me. Infante can do the job and can benefit from the confidence he would get from Leyland by giving him the darn job.
Guillen is at SS–a bit surprised. Always glad to see him in the lineup as he is the one creative force on the team on defense and on the base paths. Thought he might end up as DH today if they were gonna give him the green light.
Well we do have some RH power in the lineup–if only in theory. Big test for Clevlen but realistically Leyland had to go with him agianst Santana.
I know we all have our pet peeves but if leyland does not want to play Infante (remember he actually has some power too)-then at least go with Santiaga at 2B so you have some speed in the lineup.
That being said I hope Perez proves us wrong and goes 3 for 4 with 2 rbi and 2 runs scored while turning 2 double plays.
Rattled already. Bondy doesn’t get Cuddyer and we are in big trouble.
Monroe looked like Thames on that play.
Good sign to see Bonderman regroup and shake off the bad inning. He is one of those kind of guys that can throw his arms up in the air and losie it. To see him battle through this against good hitters is very encouraging.
Yeah, And these Minnesota commentators are starting to annoy me. They like to point out all of the Tiger’s weaknesses.
Kinda like us eh Marty? It doesn’t bother me that much as they are pretty accurate and at least shows they are worried about us.
Shelton took a couple of pitches that were a bit too close to take with a guy like Santana on the mound. Geez Perez is a dud. He even looked ridiculous on the ball Shelton deflected.
I don’t get it. Personally if Leyland keeps putting this guy in I am going to take it as a sign of stubborn capitulation and figure the season is over.
Man–Wilson usually plays pretty smart–dumb throw lobbing it to first.
Another sign of a team that is choking.
We are now in one of those defining moments of the year. Maybe we should just “don’t worry — be happy”, with being better than we were when we were the laughing stock of baseball.
Bonderman and Robertson must be wondering what it would be like to pitch on a team like the Twins, Sox or Yankees.
Infante is 0-16 lifetime against Santana. Large enough sample, but I would have plugged Santiago in there.
Santana isn’t sharp, but Punto just saved him. He should turn the corner now, and it’s going to be rough today.
We’re just getting outplayed, plain and simple.
If you haven’t already, try watching the game with the sound turned off. It’s much more palatable. It takes the crowd out of the game, at least for me. That base hit stealing snag by Punto must have really gotten them going. When will the tide turn? It’s just got to at some point. It’s why we put ourselves through this torture.
We’re certainly being outplayed but when you are playing with a defeatist attitude you won’t be beating Toledo much less less a pennant bound team like the Twins.
I still think it is not so much other teams being better than just not having the belief in yourself that is necessary. The team is playing like no one wants the ball hit to them.
This is extremely discouraging as they are actually firing on no cylinders at this point.
What’s this? A ***** in the Minnesota armor?
The Tigers aere entering dangerous territory–both for the year and for the game.
The ump is guessing and when that happens a batter can’t out guess him. You have to take a half a step away from the plate and be wiling to try to pull anything that is within 6 inches of the plate.
Thames was right-but he was wrong. He is not an established player and won’t be getting the benefit of a close call by any ump–let alone this clown. Same with Shelton. These guys have to be the archtects of their own destiny. They can’t rely on other teams making the kind of mistakes they are making nor can they rely on the goodwill of the umpires. They have to go out and play baseball.
They are not playing ball right now and are their own worst enemy.
It’s abeautiful day here in the central interior of British Columbia and wallowing in frustration over the travails of major league baseball club playing minor league baseball is probably a pretty stupid thing to do. I’m pretty close to giving up like the players have.
Report from the barnyard: mission accomplished. The stars are aligned, the spell has been cast, the orishas have their offerings, the cowrie shells have been tossed.
Unfortunately the players and umpires have to help and so far, no.
Punto’s great play on Monroe never should have happened because he swung at ball four near his peepers. Santana is used to guys swinging at balls, he will walk you — especially if he can’t get the inside corner consistently. Rich you’re so right about fouling off the pitch to hit. THames and Inge lately and oh, Shelton had a couple good pitches to hit.
Childish call on Thames. Never seen him argue. The pitch was 6 inches inside.
Performed a special ritual for Nefarious, but judging from the way he’s moving I may have to try it again. Some cases are harder than others.
Marty, I may try watching the game with the picture off and the sound.
Dan inspiring words this morning, I need them because I’m just not feeling it. Why does every Tiger game feel like an episode of the Twilight Zone? Maybe we have to follow Rich’s example, give into the rhythm of it and start dancing.
Bases jammed and Leyland is palying back for 2 with 0 out? What does he figure he can afford to give up arun and come back and score 4 whith the way these guys are hitting?
DUMB Jimbo–DUMB
The Twins are in trouble now. The rollover Tigers are out of town and now they have to face a sequence of non-contending teams that might have some hunger left in them.
I mentioned this yesterday:
“Someone needs to come in and stop the bleeding. Who is that? Well the answer is no ONE. This is a team effort and these guys need to spend some time TOGETHER on their off day on Monday, especially if they get embarrassed by Santana tomorrow. Or 2006 is gonna be a memory.”
What’s the chances of that? Leyland is gonna be in the media singing the praises of what the team has accomplished this year.
I stopped following baseball a lot of years ago becasue I was having difficulty with the size of player contracts and the arrogance of the new “professional” baseball player. I reluctantly got drawn back into being a fan in spite of this. There was a beauty in what the Tigers were doing that captured the imagination. I think the bloom is off that rose. I’m afraid that we may start seeing the Dmitri Young syndrome witnessed last year by begging off playing after he reached his bonus clause.
The upside of today is my wife feels so sorry for the little boy in me that I think she is letting me back in the house!
Where’s Colby Lewis when you neeed him?
Miner must feel real good in being called in after being a fixture in the starting rotation and now being relied on to limit this 12 run deficit?
Probably should be Miller time (instead of when you are in the 4th and 1 run down).
Pretty dreadful performance today. Of course now the team is thoroughly convinced they are incapable of winning.
Sorry for the negativity guys but I think I know you all relatively well enough to know that you understand it.
Yeah Dan. I love the Tigers, and will continue to hope, but I’m afraid we’re looking at the AL Central winners here today. As much as it makes me sick to say this, the Twins have the better playoff team too. More speed, better averages, Less HR hitters but the guys that do hit them hit more than any Tiger. Good RBI guys, obviously better defense, the best pitcher, Liriano when he comes back, a slightly better bullpen, and a ballpark tailor made for them. The Tigers beat up on a different team early in the season. The Tigers lineup has been touted all year as being balanced up and down. That’s the problem. 4 or 5 guys hitting 20-25 homeruns, little real speed, no bunting capabilities, HUGE strikeout problems. It’s about as Vanilla as you can get. Real problems when Leyland has NO options. At this point I’m hoping the White Sox falter, the Tigers sneak in with the Wildcard slot, Minnesota blows it against the A’s, the Tigers somehow beat the Yanks who they probably match up better against, and then finally get by the A’s.
Then again, maybe the Tigers are truly winners and turn things around. Placido, please hurry back!
How about this for sweet irony, or poetic justice if you wish? The Tigers eek into the playoffs as the wild card team, and then BEAT the Twins in the ALCS, completing a payback for 1987.
Well,that’s my last post for the day, about 5 too many. Should have gone fishing. Enjoy the rest, we all need it.
I’m still looking for the point where it bottoms out, and today made a good case for being just that. We’ll have to wait and see. Five home games with Texas and Baltimore. What you really need to do here is win all five. I don’t care if they beat up losing teams, this isn’t college football and the winners aren’t determined by some stupid poll.
There are still THREE weeks to go here. The Tigers can still pitch, and now we’ll have to live through a tough pennant race. There will be no more games at the Metrodome, of which I’d just as soon blow up. When the Twins open their new park, their little advantage is over with. The Monroe play in the first was a Metrodome play. The DP grounder through Guillen was a Metrodome play. Last night’s error by Infante was a Metrodome play. The big inning Friday night was all Metrodome.
What I’d like to see at this point is Shelton replacing Casey, Clevlen in right and Ordonez DHing in place of Thames. And replace Ledezma with Maroth. That improves the pitching and defense, and makes not much difference to the hitting.
The Twins will go on a little run here, but it won’t last. This is a dogfight.
OK Rich. I had logged off but came in from outside and just HAD to take one more peek. I SENSE your frustration and anger, especially in reaction to my defeatist analysis. Sorry about that. You’re right, it ain’t over yet. We need to continue to back these guys and help WILL them into the AL Central title. I HAVEN’T given up. Admire your penned grit. I’m with you 100% and agree with your ideas for improvement. Get the best defense and some extra speed in there. Yes Shelton. Yes Clevlen, DH Ordonez. Keep Infante in there at least ’til Placido comes back. And yes to Maroth. He’s been my favorite and I’ve been plugging him right along but I never got any feedback from ANYONE on this. I didn’t get the impression that any of you believed in him. I say start him as soon as possible. Soon, hopefully all the pieces will be put back into place for a final run. Maybe,… just maybe the Twins have reached their zenith prematurely and will fade.
Back to the Tigers. If we looked back over the blogs posted over the last 5 week skid, we’d be amazed at how many times we have panned just about every player, and Leyland, and the coaches at one time or another. Some deserved, some not. We have gotten down right ugly at times. If the players ever read these blogs and maybe they do, they’re probably pretty much angry and disgusted. I don’t want to end up like one of those old hecklers on the Muppets.(although they were hilarious)
Last thought, I don’t want to have to watch another game like today. And if the Tigers are the best team I HOPE they get one more chance to proove that to the Twinkies, and LEAVE NO DOUBT. Now on to the task at hand.
Marty, that reference to the old hecklers on the Muppets ’bout made me fall out of my chair!
I’m just thinking….there are people in Boston and New York and St. Louis who have the good(?) fortune to live through this every September. We of Detroit persuasion had it easy in 1968 and 1984, although 1987 was a doozy. We’re no more used to this than the players are. Am I being starry eyed pie in the sky? No, there’s a very real possibility our boys won’t pull this out. What I’m saying is that this will be hard. Remember Tom Hanks in “A League Of Their Own”? He said “It’s supposed to be hard. If it was easy, everyone would do it.”
Now I don’t mean we shouldn’t post our lineups, suggest changes, question some things, or complain about shoddy umpiring (which we’ve seen a lot of lately). I’m just saying there’s three weeks of exciting pennant race baseball left and we should try to enjoy it. This may come down to the final weekend when we’re playing KC while the Twins and White Sox duke it out. Just like 1967. That one didn’t come out too well, but I can tell you there were very few people in Michigan that weren’t glued to their TVs that weekend.
And yeah, Maroth has been my man all along. He doesn’t get near the credit he should. I’d like him in the rotation, if only for five or six innings.
Marty—I don’t think it much matters if the read the blogs. They have a job to do and opinions are like…you know what iI mean–everyone has one.
I see these forums as eing an outlet for the participants and nothing more than that.
It’s a bit tougher for the players as they can only outlet on the field and that interferes with performace.
It’s just very hard to see the disintegration of a talented bunch of players and a very tight group of individuals. I’ll continue to pull for these guys and treat my perforated ulcer and I’ll continue to complain where I see reason for complaint. Not because it will change anything but because it makes me feel better to get it off my chest. A bit selfish perhaps but it goes hand in hand with being a true fan.
Nostalgia..wonderful reverie to indulge in. Stanley at SS, McAuliffe, Cash, Lolich who cut down the Cards at the knees, Northrup’s triple past a confused hall of fame center fielder. And of course Kaline-who once refused a $100,000 contract because he thought no ballplayer deserved to make that kind of money for doing the thing he loves the most—playing ball.
Unfair to attribute these qualities to today’s ballblayers? No, I don’t thinks so and that is what attracted me back to the game this year as I saw a little of that in this group ans just wished that they would get rewarded for it.
Well stated Rich. Good quote, and whatever happens, might as well add “There’s no crying in baseball.”
This season reminds me of 1967 in many respects. That year, the Tigers got off to a good clean start and were generally acknowledged as the best team in the American League. Then injuries struck, followed by a team malaise that went on for some six weeks. By September, four teams were slogging down the stretch, none of them playing particularly great baseball. It all culminated on the final weekend when first the White Sox, then the Twins, then the Tigers lost their last “big game” and the Red Sox won the thing with, I think, 92 wins.
The upside to that season, as well as this one, is that the Tigers do have a good team and can continue to compete, with some tweaking, in upcoming seasons. One needs to feel there’s something to look forward to.
I CANNOT BELIEVE LEYLAND DOES NOT USE CLEVLEN,BIG RED IN THE LINEUP THE REST OF THE YEAR.OUR BEST BALL PLAYING WAS WHEN BIG RED WAS IN THE LINEUP AND THE EXCITEMENT CLEVLEN ADDS TO A NON HITTING TEAM IS UNMEASURABLE.IF WE DO NOT LET THIS HAPPEN THEN WE SHOULD APPROACH LEYLAND AND HAVE HIM SENT TO THE MINORS.THERE IS A REASON LEYLAND IS SUB .500 FOR HIS CAREER.
I don’t see where going to see a lot of Clevlen. He is pretty raw in terms of MLB experience and has not shown the kind of consistent hitting that would compel Leyland to have to put him in the lineup. He didn’t’ look good (keeping in mind that no one else did either) yesterday.
I think we will see a little more of Shelton. (Unless Casey snaps out of it and starts to hit about .400 the rest of the way.)
I sure didn’t like seeing Perez at 2B yesterday and wonder how much of that is due to Infante’s error on Saturday.
I agree Dan. I think a lot of Clevlen’s initial success was due to just wide eyed adrenaline. I think the reality of the difficulty in hitting major leagur pitching caught up with him shortly after that 3 pitch 3 swing out he made a while back in a critical pinch hitting situation. He went up there expecting to whack one, and I honestly think he was surprised at the results. Having said that I still like his youthful hunger. He and Hooper made a couple or three good running catches yesterday. They are light on their feet, get good jumps and are agressive. I like them at least late in the games. (maybe spot starting too). Heck, can Hooper bunt? That’s a tool that seems to be missing. But I read Jim Leyland’s comments from yesterday. Either he’s answering us or he’s getting the same pressure from other places. When speaking of the hitting approach to Santana, he said you have to go up there looking fastball early, and whack it. Because that may be all you get. I agree with him in specific circumstances like yesterday when you’re facing the probable Cy Young winner. There were more than a couple of times Tigers took nice fast balls down the middle. But Santana’s control was off (by his standards) and that might have been exploited a little more. But there must be quite a number of pitchers who need agressive hitters swinging at balls outside the strike zone for them to be effective. The Tigers do just that for them. So the pitchers end up figuring that out and then controlling the flow of the game. When you are agressive at the plate as a team, and it doesn’t work, it’s like 5 to 10 pitches, and you send your starter right back out there to toil. That wears on them. I mentioned this before. Even when the Tigers score a lot of runs they do it fast. If smoeone would have put a clock on Tiger ups and opponent ups all year, every inning, I would bet there would be a big descrepency against the Tigers over the season. So I just advocate some patience. But I’m tired of doing it at this point.
So I’m shifting my focus from the hitting woes. Hopefully the Tigers will start hitting home runs again, because as Leyland said himself, that is the way this team is best suited to score runs. So lets get some great pitching, good fielding, and timely whacks, the formula that was so successful early on.
I knew this would happen eventually. Missed completely on a comment above. Clevlen moved to left yesterday, I was thinking it was Hooper. Wow, was I paying attention!? Well I don’t want anyone displacing Brandon, as long as he holds up.
The Yanks are probably the best hitting team of all when you watch them. They make every pitcher work. Santana? Doesn’t matter whom it may be. The difference between our boys and them is that they hit the strikes and not swing through them. We are a good pitching, decent fielding, poor hitting team. I hope we win it all, but I have to believe that we are not ready for “prime time playoff” baseball for another year or so. We are sitting here discussing the merits of Clevlen and Hooper hitting major league pitching. This is simply not the answer. They have had their problems hitting MINOR league hur lers. We are all searching for SOMEONE who CAN hit major league pitching, because most of our guys are not major league hitters. I really am looking forward to next year. I think, DD can put the final pieces of the puzzle together with some luck and healthy players. Again, of course I would like to see the Tigers make the playoffs if they can be competitive, but with our current lineup I have to wonder how well we will be able to do? It may, in the end, be better to NOT be there and humiliated. Leyland says we have a great team. I don’t see a GREAT team, but I do see one that has possibilities for the next couple years, and I sure have enjoyed wearing my Tiger cap this summer. and not being ridiculed in western NY.
Hi all, just want to step in and attempt to clarify a couple of things.
Marty, after Clevlen made that nice running catch in leftfield and the announcer was describing it, the camera swung to Hooper, who was at thirdbase. I think that’s what threw you, had me confused for a minute too.
Can Hooper bunt? Well, he pinch hit for DY in what would have been his final at bat as a Tiger and laid down a nice one. Don’t know if he does that all the time, but that one was a beauty.
I don’t think anyone is advocating Clevlen and Hooper as the hope for the future, at least I hope not. I think we’re looking for temporary “jump start” fixes. It goes without saying that the Tigers have to add some hitting before next year. That’s a given, and can be discussed all winter.
I think it would be a good thing for the Tigers to make a playoff appearance this year, for the experience if nothing else. That’s invaluable.
One more thought on enjoying a pennant race: I just found myself watching the A’s try to mount a comeback against the Twins, pacing the room just as I often do during Tiger games. Bases loaded and Scutaro pops up the first pitch he sees. Sound familiar?
That’s all I have tonight. I spent much of the day thinking about 9/11. I came this close to losing my lovely wife that day. “See” ya tomorrow.